Sources: Pentagon group finds there is minimal risk to lifting gay ban during war

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    Nov 11, 2010 4:38 AM GMT
    "A Pentagon study group has concluded that the military can lift the ban on gays serving openly in uniform with only minimal and isolated incidents of risk to the current war efforts, according to two people familiar with a draft of the report, which is due to President Obama on Dec. 1. ..."

    Ok, here's the kicker...

    ""There are challenges here, and we want the time so we can make the process of implementation as smooth as possible," said a second person who was briefed on the report but had not read it. ... "

    They are gonna use this kind of thinking to "lift" the ban but drag out implementation of it in reality. Just watch and see!
    .... The Democraps are dedicated to make anything they do as painful as possible, I really think they fear solving gay issues cuz then gays will be free to vote based on other issues.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/10/AR2010111007381.html?hpid=topnews
  • Mepark

    Posts: 806

    Nov 11, 2010 6:42 AM GMT
    If the Pentagon concludes that implementation should go slow, THEN THAT'S HOW IT SHOULD BE. The "Democraps" still have to balance satisfying you and the military at the same time.
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    Nov 11, 2010 7:04 AM GMT
    ^ This

    It's not about "satisfying" some special needs group. It's about equal rights guaranteed by the Constitution.
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    Nov 11, 2010 7:53 AM GMT
    Mepark saidIf the Pentagon concludes that implementation should go slow, THEN THAT'S HOW IT SHOULD BE. The "Democraps" still have to balance satisfying you and the military at the same time.


    Democraps do have a tendency to be skeptical of "authority". Is this the difference between Rapepublicans and Democraps?

    Oh, and last time I checked, the military worked FOR the civilian government. I'm pretty sure my elected officials have some final say about Pentagon funding. Who's the boss here?
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    Nov 11, 2010 9:48 AM GMT
    Good now let's lifting the fucking ban already President Suckadick Obama.
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    Nov 12, 2010 12:29 AM GMT
    At this point we don't need studies to know what happens with homos in the military. Gays openly serving is only a big deal for the rubes back home who vote for conservatives. They want to pretend we still live in the 1950s and no amount of intelligent discourse will convince them to change their mind.

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    Nov 12, 2010 5:47 AM GMT
    Caslon16000 said"A Pentagon study group has concluded that the military can lift the ban on gays serving openly in uniform with only minimal and isolated incidents of risk to the current war efforts, according to two people familiar with a draft of the report, which is due to President Obama on Dec. 1. ..."

    Ok, here's the kicker...

    ""There are challenges here, and we want the time so we can make the process of implementation as smooth as possible," said a second person who was briefed on the report but had not read it. ... "

    They are gonna use this kind of thinking to "lift" the ban but drag out implementation of it in reality. Just watch and see!
    .... The Democraps are dedicated to make anything they do as painful as possible, I really think they fear solving gay issues cuz then gays will be free to vote based on other issues.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/10/AR2010111007381.html?hpid=topnews


    I actually just got to see VTC Steve Loomis, MAJ Pat Baillie, MAA3 Joseph Roche, and LTC Victor Fehrenbach in a panel discussion here in Albuquerque. VTC Loomis and MAA3 Roche were both discharged under DADT, and MAJ Baillie quit the day it was announced by President Clinton. LTC Fehrenbach is still undergoing the process of discharge, however his experience and media work have successfully allowed him to get a restraining order against the Pentagon in regards to signing his discharge.

    It was a pretty cool thing to see on Veterans Day.

    All four have a lot of optimism that the ban will be lifted, and soon. They have no real preference for which process, whether by court or legislative act, although LTC Fehrenbach expressed hope that the legislative route would be the best way to kill DADT. He believes that the 10 or so senators including Olympia Snowe who voted against repealing DADT will use the report to change their votes. He along with the other panelists agreed that the report gives the Senators the momentum and kick in the ass they need to change their vote, if it is brought to the floor during the lame duck session. The big question will be if McCain has enough standing to filibuster it again after the survey is published.

    They also wanted to point out that the current survey and research being done also includes plans on how to implement it, although they acknowledge LGBT servicemembers are already effectively serving in their units.

    In regards to the court case, they pointed out that if the Courts defer to former precedents in the Log Cabin Republicans v Rumsfeld case, they will actually be allowing Secretary Gates and his staff to exercise their own authority in demolishing the policy. According to Ferhenbach, the Justice who will review the case for the Supreme Court is Justice Kennedy, who also wrote the majority opinion in striking down the sodomy laws in Lawrence v Texas.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19119

    Nov 12, 2010 5:49 AM GMT
    I think this brings us one step closer to the repeal. Now if they could just bring it to a vote and be done with it -- sheeesh!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 12, 2010 5:50 AM GMT
    lift the fucking ban! as the way i see it the millitary can use all the help it can get with the way things are going. we still have a ways to go in this war. i know i would serve if they lifted the ban.
  • Webster666

    Posts: 9217

    Nov 12, 2010 6:55 AM GMT
    I've said it close to a million times.
    Congress will NEVER abolish DADT.
    They're all afraid of not getting reelected.
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    Nov 12, 2010 9:02 AM GMT
    W.W.J.M.D.

    What will John McCain do?
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    Nov 12, 2010 9:09 AM GMT
    John McCain is a Democrat
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Nov 12, 2010 11:05 AM GMT
    Webster666 saidI've said it close to a million times.
    Congress will NEVER abolish DADT.
    They're all afraid of not getting reelected.


    Thank you John McCain for threatening to filibuster
    the republican party for demonizing ANYTHING that Remotely promotes gay rights
    .... and the spineless democratic party for being afraid to do ANYTHING courageous at all
  • Menergy_1

    Posts: 737

    Nov 13, 2010 12:40 AM GMT
    http://joemygod.blogspot.com/

    The Department Of Defense Is EVER So Pissed About The Leaked DADT Survey
    Defense Secretary Robert Gates is furious about the leaked DADT survey and has launched an investigation to find its source. In the meantime, today the Pentagon issued a super-annoyed press release.
    Secretary Gates is very concerned and extremely disappointed that unnamed sources within the Department of Defense have selectively revealed aspects of the draft findings of the Comprehensive Review Working Group, presumably to shape perceptions of the report prior to its release. The Secretary launched this review in March to objectively ascertain the impact of potential repeal of the ‘Don't Ask, Don't Tell’ law on military readiness, effectiveness, recruiting, retention, unit cohesion and families. He made it clear then and throughout this process that it was ‘critical that this effort be carried out in a professional, thorough and dispassionate manner.’ He has also stated clearly that ‘given the political dimension of this issue, it is equally critical that...every effort be made to shield our men and women in uniform and their families from those aspects of this debate.’

    For nearly nine months the Working Group has operated in strict accordance to that mandate. Anonymous sources now risk undermining the integrity of this process. The Secretary strongly condemns the unauthorized release of information related to this report and has directed an investigation to establish who communicated with the Washington Post or any other news organization without authorization and in violation of Department policy and his specific instruction. The full report will be made public for all to review early next month. Until then, no one at the Pentagon will comment on its contents.
    You gotta wonder how much of a hand Tony Perkins had in this response.

    (see: [url]http://www.goodasyou.org/good_as_you/2010/11/implied-criminality-frcs-latest-dadt-distration.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+GoodAsYou+%28Good+As+You%29&utm_content=Google+Reader[/url]


    Crybaby Tony Perkins Demands Investigation Into Leaked DADT Survey
    "We have criticized this study from the outset because the CRWG was forbidden to explore the central question before the country-not how to implement a repeal of the current law, but whether doing so is in the best interest of the armed forces. The surveys of servicemembers and their spouses which were conducted as part of this process shared the same flaw, since they never asked, 'Do you believe the current law should be overturned?'

    "Despite this critical flaw, Secretary Gates had at least pledged that the effort would be 'carried out in a professional, thorough and dispassionate manner.' That effort is gravely undermined by leaks to the media which are unprofessional, selective and blatantly biased. I urge Secretary Gates to have the DOD Inspector General launch an immediate investigation into the source of these leaks, which have seriously damaged the credibility of the CRWG process." - Family Research Council douchebag crybaby Tony Perkins, saying it's "laughable" that the leaking party wouldn't have a pro-gay bias.)
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    Nov 13, 2010 2:15 AM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ saidI think this brings us one step closer to the repeal. Now if they could just bring it to a vote and be done with it -- sheeesh!
    It shouldn't have to be a vote. The Constitution already gives us equal rights. All they need to do is refer to that and lift the ban. For those who "would" vote against it, they can go fuck themselves.
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    Nov 13, 2010 5:54 AM GMT
    The whole thing is stupid. The average age is the military guys is around 19.5 years. They don't give a shit.

    When was the last time the DI asked "Would you like to do a pushup?"
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    Nov 13, 2010 2:05 PM GMT
    Mepark saidIf the Pentagon concludes that implementation should go slow, THEN THAT'S HOW IT SHOULD BE. The "Democraps" still have to balance satisfying you and the military at the same time.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Back when Black men were integrated did the military need to go "SLOW" ?, or when women were integrated did the military need to go "SLOW" ? . This crap is based on prejudice of older white men who naturally transfer their own bigotry to everyone under them, they have the mentality that if this is how I feel about a gay person then all "real men" must feel and react the same. DADT being done away with won't change anything except be an improvement. Gays in the military are there because they want to be and won't be hitting on straight guys in the shower rooms or their room mates, Give Gay people credit for knowing better because we do.
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    Nov 13, 2010 4:31 PM GMT
    The Washington Post, to which the report was leaked, states the report will show that most troops are not concerned about serving and living alongside openly gay troops. More than 70 percent of respondents to a questionnaire sent to more than 40,000 active-duty and reserve troops over the summer said the effect of lifting the gay ban would be positive, mixed or nonexistent. Forty percent of Marines objected to the change, the highest rate among the armed forces.

    Frankly, I am amazed there was only a 40% objection among Marines, bearing in mind how vocally bigoted some of their hierarchy (Including the Commandant of the Marine Corps) appear to be.

  • Menergy_1

    Posts: 737

    Nov 13, 2010 6:19 PM GMT
    Mil8 saidThe Washington Post, to which the report was leaked, states the report will show that most troops are not concerned about serving and living alongside openly gay troops. More than 70 percent of respondents to a questionnaire sent to more than 40,000 active-duty and reserve troops over the summer said the effect of lifting the gay ban would be positive, mixed or nonexistent. Forty percent of Marines objected to the change, the highest rate among the armed forces.

    Frankly, I am amazed there was only a 40% objection among Marines, bearing in mind how vocally bigoted some of their hierarchy (Including the Commandant of the Marine Corps) appear to be.



    I believe the survey was actually sent to 400,000 (not 40,000) randomly selected active duty and reserve service members and a second survey (not sure of the actual contents/questions) was a little later sent out to 150,000 families of service members to gauge their reaction to having their spouses serve with gays/lesbians and to having gays/lesbians (single or coupled) living on base, in the community, mixing in socially, with their spouses on deployment, etc.

    Hopefully, the two surveys were merged and the results were pretty much positive, as reported.
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    Nov 13, 2010 8:47 PM GMT
    Mepark saidIf the Pentagon concludes that implementation should go slow, THEN THAT'S HOW IT SHOULD BE.



    There is no moral justification for slowly easing our way out of discrimination and prejudice. Discrimination that should have never existed in the first place and in the very least should have ended years ago, needs to end asap.
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    Nov 20, 2010 1:00 AM GMT
    Well according to Lieberman we have the votes now to repeal DADT:

    http://www.advocate.com/News/Daily_News/2010/11/18/Lieberman_on_DADT_We_Have_60_Votes//
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    Nov 20, 2010 8:41 AM GMT
    Animus said^ This

    It's not about "satisfying" some special needs group. It's about equal rights guaranteed by the Constitution.


    Exactly! When Black people were allowed to ride in any seat on the bus in the South, White people weren't like, "well let's take it slow....just allow them the back 5 rows, then 6 back rows by December, and 7 back rows by..."
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    Nov 20, 2010 4:08 PM GMT
    JAKEBENSON said
    Animus said^ This

    It's not about "satisfying" some special needs group. It's about equal rights guaranteed by the Constitution.


    Exactly! When Black people were allowed to ride in any seat on the bus in the South, White people weren't like, "well let's take it slow....just allow them the back 5 rows, then 6 back rows by December, and 7 back rows by..."


    QFT