Androphilia: A concept RJ members might like

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 13, 2008 2:32 PM GMT
    As an assumption, it appears that most of us RJ members share an interest in 'the masculine identity', and we all share an appreciation/love/worship of it. I have noticed that there are many members who are uncomfortable with the label 'gay', due to much of the baggage that it carries.

    Therefore, I suggest the following book:
    "Androphilia: Rejecting the Gay Identity. Reclaiming Masculinity" by Jack Malebranche

    Within its pages, Jack refutes the 'paradox' of being a masculine gay male, and suggests the term Androphile to refer to ourselves rather.
    If you are interested in shedding the 'gay' title and finding a more appropriate reference word, check out his book.
    If you would like to read some excerpts and essays that he has written before going out and reading the book, check out his website: jackmalebranche.com

    Good reading, men.
    Enjoy!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 13, 2008 3:09 PM GMT
    Thanks man......now what will all those "straight acting" dudes do now?
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    Mar 13, 2008 3:19 PM GMT
    I like to go to a gay sports bar with screens and the games going on. I may npot know all the team members and know all the stats on the players and teams. But I enjoy watching the strategy of the game and the skill of the men....I like the competition between the men and the sportsmanship.

    Sometimes, guys criticize a gay sports bar because somehow, they think it is phoney, as if somehow, gay men aren't into sports, as if this is another lesson in "straight acting". True, lots of guys couldn't give a shit about the game. But some do.

    It's so strange. Convoluted ideas. Some gay men have fantasies about straight men and love all that masculine stuff, but limit themsleves by looking at it form the outside.

    But men are men, gay or straight. Screaming your head off at a gay parade is not going to get rid of internal homophobia. The same commeraderie
    between straight men doing sports is the same as gay men doing sports. Enough with the labels.
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    Mar 13, 2008 3:25 PM GMT
    Thank you for your words.

    I agree with your reference to there being "internalized homophobia". Speaking in my own experiences here as a Canadian in Ontario, I have experienced VERY LITTLE gay bashing. In my city, sure there are people who think negatively of homosexuality, but it's no longer aggressive and rarely physical.

    Now, rather than "fight externalized homophobia", the Gay Rights Movement should start healing it's own members' internalized homophobia.
    Start bridging the self-made schism between 'gay' and 'straight' men, and reconfigure ourselves into simply MEN!
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    Mar 13, 2008 3:51 PM GMT
    Militant_Jock saidThank you for your words.

    I agree with your reference to there being "internalized homophobia". Speaking in my own experiences here as a Canadian in Ontario, I have experienced VERY LITTLE gay bashing. In my city, sure there are people who think negatively of homosexuality, but it's no longer aggressive and rarely physical.

    Now, rather than "fight externalized homophobia", the Gay Rights Movement should start healing it's own members' internalized homophobia.
    Start bridging the self-made schism between 'gay' and 'straight' men, and reconfigure ourselves into simply MEN!


    There is no such thing as "men" apart from the very basic physical aspects. What a "man" is in reality is what society thinks it should be. Acceptable masculine behaviour varies considerably across cultures.

    I frankly don't want to be put in our society's straight jacket of what "men" are, most men I meet are unreal and phony because they are trying to live up to what they think society wants.

    They can't express their emotions, are neurotic about whether they are "masculine" enough, are afraid they will be called "wimps" if they don't like violent movies or don't want to go bungee-jumping, etc..

    Be yourself is my motto, you will have masculine and feminine traits. Some men will have more of the former than the latter, others the reverse.

    That is why I smirk a bit when I read profiles about guys only interested in masculine, or straight-acting guys. Often it is a code for "don't want to be suspected of being gay by dating a guy that is not very masculine".

    I agree we need to get away from the straight jacket that the gay community sometimes puts us in. I can't tell you the number of times gay men have asked me "are you sure you are gay" because I am not stereotypical in my interests. I like sports, I hate shopping, and I do not get excited about material things. I also don't have the urge to dress up in women's clothing or act bitchy.

    Just don't expect me to go into another behavioural prison known as "being a man".
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 13, 2008 3:59 PM GMT
    Thank you for your reply, j.
    As I was reading "Androphilia", I found myself saying much of the same things as you expressed in your post. There is definitely SEXE (male and female) based on genetilia, but GENDER is a social construct. I do not abide by Malebranche's views 100%; I thought the material he presents is a constructive step for certain individuals.

    For the past few years, I have been exploring my own concepts of masculinity and identity, and this book was helpful in providing an alternative view. One that I found very impactful and appropriate for my current stage in life. Perhaps others could benefit!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 13, 2008 5:59 PM GMT
    He doth protest too much, methinks.
  • Rowing_Ant

    Posts: 1504

    Mar 13, 2008 6:00 PM GMT
    Speaking Anthropologically, Sex is biological, Gender is a social construct and sexuality is also a social construct.

    In a lot of prehistoric societies and also "primitive" societies studied today by anthropologists or archaeologists, one sees that sex doesnt neccessarily mean gender etc.

    For exameple, one tribe in New Guinea divides gender, sexuality and a social notion of "sex" by the amount of the substance NU (semen) a person contains.

    By this means :-

    "men" (classed as men in terms of gender and sociatal given sex) are young males and females who have had over a certain number of babies as they contain a high proportion of "nu". Females classed as "men" in this system dressed as men and had false penises.

    "women" are old males who have had lots of sex and used up their supply of nu and young females or females who have had below a certain number of babies and are therefore low in nu.

    In order to preserve the amount of nu a man has, young men keep homosexual relationships until they are married or even later so that if they have sex they do not lose their nu/get filled with more nu.

    In other words, in this society gender and sexual roles is based ont he amount of Nu and someone can be biologically male but in terms of sex role and gender be female and vice versa.

    To sum up, biological sex is a given, the rest an anthropomorphic construct.

    A good book on this is "The Prehistory of Sex" by Dr Tim Taylor of Bradford University.
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    Mar 13, 2008 6:09 PM GMT
    This is very interesting, and I'm going to read more about it later. But for the record, I don't like to label myself anything. I've got a lot of varied interests and don't think I'm any more a jock, than I am queer, or a straight acting than I am gay acting. Labels don't work for me. The list would be much too long if you counted all the things that I could associate myself with, and limit myself to. Yes, I have a masculine to nuetral identity, but I'm not interested in splitting hairs. I don't see it as a paradox; unless you're saying only heterosexuals have the right and/or ability to masculine? Woman, hetero and and homosexual alike, can act masculine as well. So what of them? No offense to you. This is just how I choose to view myself. I'm just a guy, who happens to be gay. It's no more complicated than that.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 13, 2008 6:11 PM GMT
    Anyone else here getting tired of labels?

    It's like "gay" implies "Like, OMIGOD!" *wrist-flick* while "butch" means "football" and we're somehow juxtaposed against each other like the Israeli-Palestinian conflict!

    Jesus, grow a pair, be yourself, and stop this "categorizing" and "conforming" into a freakin' word!
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    Mar 13, 2008 6:14 PM GMT
    shambles saidI like to go to a gay sports bar with screens and the games going on.

    Huh, where do you find those? Shout out if there's one in Houston that I don't know about. ;)

    Dood, good point. Labels are so 2007.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 13, 2008 6:18 PM GMT
    I'm just a Joe Schmoe who HAPPENS to be of Mexican descent & Gay and....... MANY other things!


    Militant, thanks for the info on the book, just ordered it!
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    Mar 13, 2008 6:19 PM GMT
    personally, i would MUCH prefer to call myself gay and break the swishy stereotype than go around saying i'm an androphilliac. come to montreal, i can show you alot of straight femmy guys.
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    Mar 13, 2008 6:19 PM GMT
    dood saidAnyone else here getting tired of labels?

    It's like "gay" implies "Like, OMIGOD!" *wrist-flick* while "butch" means "football" and we're somehow juxtaposed against each other like the Israeli-Palestinian conflict!

    Jesus, grow a pair, be yourself, and stop this "categorizing" and "conforming" into a freakin' word!


    You took the words out of my mouth. Good posting.
  • NickoftheNort...

    Posts: 1416

    Mar 13, 2008 6:21 PM GMT
    There have been a few threads down this line, including discussion of Malebranche:

    RJ Forum search for "Malebranche"
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 13, 2008 6:23 PM GMT
    Mr. Malebranche is a source of inspiration to the g0y boys who hang out here. In fact, I believe there's little if any difference between his ideology and theirs.

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    Mar 13, 2008 6:24 PM GMT
    dood saidAnyone else here getting tired of labels?

    It's like "gay" implies "Like, OMIGOD!" *wrist-flick* while "butch" means "football" and we're somehow juxtaposed against each other like the Israeli-Palestinian conflict!

    Jesus, grow a pair, be yourself, and stop this "categorizing" and "conforming" into a freakin' word!


    YES
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    Mar 13, 2008 6:25 PM GMT
    jms84 saidpersonally, i would MUCH prefer to call myself gay and break the swishy stereotype than go around saying i'm an androphilliac. come to montreal, i can show you alot of straight femmy guys.


    I know, the thought of telling my friends i am an androphilliac is even worse than having to tell them i was gay.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 13, 2008 6:29 PM GMT
    i'd totally dabble in a lil androphillia for some of you. but only as long as there's nothing gay about it. gay sex is out.
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    Mar 13, 2008 6:31 PM GMT
    Am I the only one who smells this stuff?
    38197-spam.jpg
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 13, 2008 6:32 PM GMT
    militantqueenI have noticed that there are many members who are uncomfortable with the label 'gay'



    Riiiiiiight. That's why they've all joined a "GAY FITNESS COMMUNITY".
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 13, 2008 6:35 PM GMT
    how many more letters need to be added on to LGBT? and are we gonna add ANOTHER g for the g0ys? or just let it double up?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 13, 2008 6:35 PM GMT
    For those sick of labels, I highly recommend GenderQueer: Voices From Beyond the Sexual Binary. Even so called Androphiles might find it a good read and I would especially recommend it to them.

    Oh, and if you want to go to a gay sports bar. Come to Buffalo and walk into any gay bar during hockey season. Watching burley bears beer in hand cheer next to nelly drag queens in faux ermine furs is a sight to be seen.
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    Mar 13, 2008 6:38 PM GMT
    mnjockI know, the thought of telling my friends i am an androphilliac is even worse than having to tell them i was gay.

    No kidding. We've struggled for several generations to de-pathologize the term "gay," and now we wanna adopt a clinical-sounding label like "androphiliac"? I guess their opposites will be androphobes and the closeted will suffer internalized androphobia.
  • justjk

    Posts: 302

    Mar 13, 2008 6:38 PM GMT
    As one of my favorite lines from Trick says, " I don't even think I am gay", "You suck dick right?"...... and there's your answer