Ethical Dilemma?

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 18, 2010 4:13 AM GMT
    So I'm in college and making good grades (mostly A's and B's) but those grades aren't up to my standards. I want excellence (all A's). I'm thinking about taking Ritalin so that my grades could greatly improve. But since I don't really need them, I feel that it's a form of cheating. But it's conflicting with my desire to have exellence. What should I do?
  • mcwclewis

    Posts: 1701

    Nov 18, 2010 4:46 AM GMT
    It's not cheating, but it's potentially dangerous. It's a perscription drug for a reason, and usually wont affect you the same way it does people with ADD.

    You're better off studying harder, talking to your professors about potential extra credit, and also (this one is often overlooked) make sure you're getting a good nights sleep.

    If you really want to supplement, try ginko biloba, which has been found to improve memory and has no significant side effects recorded.
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    Nov 18, 2010 4:50 AM GMT
    Lol, you know that it doesn't work as it is suppose to for people who don't have ADHD... actually, every college student knows this. Also, excellence, they stopped saying that about academic performance in the 90's?
    It will fuck you UP like tweaker fucked up. icon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gif
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    Nov 18, 2010 5:05 AM GMT
    Good luck with that. I think Adderall is the drug you're searching for. It works.....Very well. However, when not taking it after codependency it has the opposite effect.
    First ask yourself:
    Why strive for a 4.0?

    -When you get to your 'real' schooling a 4.0 just isn't possible anymore. So why set yourself up for failure?

    -I'm finding this out right now that having A's in all my classes is not an outcome anymore. I'm actually resting on a B average.

    I went to my Dr. yesterday for lorazepam. Didn't work, but I will be diligent and return in three weeks for the same thing. I need something to calm me the fuck down.

  • Nov 18, 2010 6:12 AM GMT
    be very careful. the doses are not written for you. i am (mildly) ADHD and take adderal. it does help with concentration, but you can get overly focused on the wrong thing. even people who take it for medical reasons have this problem. also, you're likely to lose an unhealthy amount of weight. i lost 10lbs in my first month and a half, and i don't have that kind of weight to lose.

    if it's a matter of ethics and a desire to succeed and you've been dealt a good hand, then play it out. people take ADD/ ADHD meds for a reason. it's equal footing, as my academic adviser told me after i started the medication.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 18, 2010 6:28 AM GMT
    if you have to ask, of course it's 'cheating'. anything that potentially gives you an advantage (and yes your conscience gets to define 'advantage') over other people in the same situation is cheating.

    i was the oldest guy in my physician assistant class. i finished 2nd out of 60 and if not for a celebrated personality conflict with my pediatric rotation supervisor would have finished 1st with a 4.0. instead i had to settle for a 3.95 GPA. i did it without stimulants, even while half the class was using them. if i had wanted to use them it would have been easy to get them. i preferred old-fashioned hard work.

    you will be presented with similar dilemmas throughout the rest of your life. if you get to your deathbed without your integrity, what will you have gained? you said yourself you don't need the 'A', so what's the ethical dilemma? you answered your own question. to borrow an '80s tagline.... just say 'no'. do the best you can.
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    Nov 18, 2010 6:44 AM GMT
    *This thread was made possible by direct-to-consumer advertising from pharmaceutical companies and the support of readers like you*
  • TxGrunt

    Posts: 71

    Nov 18, 2010 6:46 AM GMT
    rightasrain saidif you have to ask, of course it's 'cheating'. anything that potentially gives you an advantage (and yes your conscience gets to define 'advantage') over other people in the same situation is cheating.

    i was the oldest guy in my physician assistant class. i finished 2nd out of 60 and if not for a celebrated personality conflict with my pediatric rotation supervisor would have finished 1st with a 4.0. instead i had to settle for a 3.95 GPA. i did it without stimulants, even while half the class was using them. if i had wanted to use them it would have been easy to get them. i preferred old-fashioned hard work.

    you will be presented with similar dilemmas throughout the rest of your life. if you get to your deathbed without your integrity, what will you have gained? you said yourself you don't need the 'A', so what's the ethical dilemma? you answered your own question. to borrow an '80s tagline.... just say 'no'. do the best you can.


    what he said!

    get over yourself. dont let the great be the enemy of the good. have high expectations sure, but keep any ocd over-achiever self in check. youll be far better off and you will walk away knowing you did the best you could and you wont risk any danger in the process. youre looking for speed and you better be ready for everything else that comes with it, there is a price for everything and in this case you admit you dont need to pay the price. so dont. drink red bull instead! lol
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 18, 2010 7:01 AM GMT
    Or, just go get some Gingko Biloba. It helps with memory.

    I've been taking since high school, and if it weren't for...

    ...what were we talking about? icon_biggrin.gif

    Seriously, though, I recommend it. It's cheaper than OTC drugs, anyway.
  • timmytwister

    Posts: 169

    Nov 18, 2010 7:17 AM GMT
    mcwclewis saidIf you really want to supplement, try ginko biloba, which has been found to improve memory and has no significant side effects recorded.


    Don't waste your money on ginko biloba - it's a snakeoil. The Dept. of Neurology, University of Pittsburgh did a study which found that "annual rates of decline in z scores did not differ between G. biloba and placebo groups in any domains, including memory, attention, visuospatial abilities, language and executive functions." Their study did, however only include elderly subjects.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20040554

    *************************************

    Below is a great interactive chart which someone posted earlier this year on RJ. Considering hundreds of scientific studies, the creator shows which supplements have been proven effective and which seem to be nothing more than myth. The studies can also be viewed from this link.

    http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/play/snake-oil-supplements/

    snakeoil_supplements_956.png
  • MidwesternKid

    Posts: 1167

    Nov 18, 2010 7:26 AM GMT
    I would express caution. I know of people whether they were prescribed or not, became addicted. My brother who was prescribed MUST take it. If he does not he has serious problems controlling his temper and can't focus completely. Not what would probably happen in your case, but it is just an example of someone who has taken it for too long.

    I took the drug prescribed from K to 12. I stopped taking in College. I look at my brother who now can't live without it and I am glad I got off of it when I did. And getting off of it was not easy. I was taking it 3 times a day for 5 days a week for all those years of school. Never liked it.
  • FredMG

    Posts: 988

    Nov 18, 2010 7:34 AM GMT
    amuletazawakh saidSo I'm in college and making good grades (mostly A's and B's) but those grades aren't up to my standards. I want excellence (all A's). I'm thinking about taking Ritalin so that my grades could greatly improve. But since I don't really need them, I feel that it's a form of cheating. But it's conflicting with my desire to have exellence. What should I do?


    College isn't High School, if you need to take fewer credit hours because the classes are harder do that. I went to school with people who were obcessed with not being able to get an A+, and would bitch about how hard it was to maintain their 4.0.

    The horrible truth is that the 4.0 counts for grad school, but not so much in the real world applying for a job. Ironically I got an archaeology job with my 3.2 GPA and my BA in anthropology. The 4.0 anthro kids with a BA that I went to school with are still working their service jobs.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 18, 2010 11:01 AM GMT
    Well....

    I wrote my last paper before I left the USA college on drug taking for study,

    The fact is even if it gives you a 5-10% performance enhancement above your baseline, it's useless because the majority of children are doing similar and you're graded on a curve..so if a significant majority's of the class performance increases 10% the grades will still be almost the same the closer that majority gets to total.

    The only way to win is to out drug the other children, I was shocked the first time everyone casually spilled pills into the center of the table at a study group (advanced chem) I never saw ritalin during my tenure but Adderal was always there along with Concerta usually, sometimes Provigil and of course kids pummped full of uppers need to come down at some time so downers like Percocet, Valium or Xanax were always needed for the really pumped up kids

    All the students from UK/EUR would come home and laugh at fact that we were among children who's self esteem was intrinsically linked to letter grades. Drugs were something we took for fun, for partying and socializing not to be able to stay up all night rote memorizing facts..

    I think I probably got a C or something...don't care really American professors reward learning facts that no one else knows...It was also fun to see american kids crying out the coat tails of professors when they came to europe and they're fact learning was rewarded with below avg grades... When they came to our study groups we had to teach them to have opinions, shockingly they were able to tell the professor the opinions of everyone else in the field but lacked the skills to form their own
  • Gaymer

    Posts: 111

    Nov 18, 2010 11:02 AM GMT
    Many schools also offer tutoring services. If these services are ACTUALLY good, they'll help you learn how to study more effectively, manage time, & essentially find what works for you. It's never really the content that's the trouble, it's how to get the content into one's memory =P

    Avoid drugs. Even if they are "legal". Eat well, get plenty of sleep, excercise to burn off stress, & just keep at studying. Don't introduce anything into your biochemistry that might change how you think/study. It's better that you find the problems yourself & work them out, although many will be in your personality & a bit more difficult to change

    BTW: I was a peer tutor for 6 semesters and I've brought many C-/D students up to B+ or higher, so don't worry, it'll happen =)
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 18, 2010 11:08 AM GMT
    You could try studying.
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    Nov 18, 2010 11:09 AM GMT
    I obsessed about grades all through public school, college, and graduate school. Guess what? No one has ever asked what my GPA was since I graduated.

    I forgot to drop a class during the first semester of grad school and got an F. I thought my career was over. I retook the class and got an A but it hasn't really mattered at all.

    I was involved in a lot of school activities throughout college and that drove a few of my grades down because I didn't have as much time to study. However, the extracurricular activities did matter to my career and I've been using the skills I learned in them ever since.

    Like others have said, I take Gingko Biloba and it's really helped improve my memory. I also keep a daily journal where I review the day and write about what happened, what I did, and with whom. It's been a great mental stimulant for me.
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    Nov 18, 2010 11:26 AM GMT


    When you leave school and get out into the big bad world, you will see that A's and B's mean very little.

    In fact in a lot of fields, the 'academics' tend to lack most of the communication and people skills, ability to think on their feet etc. that the more balanced students have.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 18, 2010 11:39 AM GMT
    Thisuserexists said

    When you leave school and get out into the big bad world, you will see that A's and B's mean very little.

    In fact in a lot of fields, the 'academics' tend to lack most of the communication and people skills, ability to think on their feet etc. that the more balanced students have.


    Agreed. I've spent many hours translating and editing documents from colleagues with Ph.D.s. I also have to sometimes explain how the "real" world works to them.
  • conservativej...

    Posts: 2465

    Nov 18, 2010 4:52 PM GMT
    So what's your major?
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    Nov 18, 2010 5:14 PM GMT
    When I was in school ( very competitive school in NYC) the big "Student Helper" that was in vogue was Adderall: basically a slightly newer versionof Ritilin. I guess it worked for the people that used it, but every now & then, a someone would go too long without sleep and take too much; you would bump into them wandering around campus confused, near hysterics, and looking like crap. I never took it but was tempted.

    My assistance was trying to eat well, lots of coffee (at times alot of sugar) and eventually a drink to relax,.. Or maybe a little herb & a Valium.

    My ex-bf was a upper level engineer for a computer company & between long hours on projects, frequent international travel, etc, there were times he lived on Provigil; it was what it was, just not my thing.
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    Nov 18, 2010 7:30 PM GMT
    I honestly have never heard of using drugs to enhance academic achievements -- what a sheltered life I have eh?

    Where I was at school we got good grades the old fashioned way, by revising hard and asking lots of questions. Personally I don't think you should be using the drugs and that you should either work harder or accept the grades that you're predicted to get.
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    Nov 18, 2010 8:45 PM GMT
    this is beyond insane... No physcian in this world would even write a script for you to get Ritalin...if it was medically required. Since I'm guessing it isn't you have no idea what the side affects would be.

    God what is wrong with you kids! Always looking for short cuts! STUDY!!!!!!
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    Nov 18, 2010 8:57 PM GMT
    I have a very low attention span, which is one reason I have never been able to study effectively. If I were a kid today, doubtless I would be diagnosed as ADHD (although I never suffered from the hyperactivity bit, which probably means I am just a lazy bastard).

    I have always simply viewed this trait as part of my personality and not a particularly bad part at that. My advice would be to learn to live with it. I would not go filling my body with mind altering drugs, unless it was a matter of life and death.
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    Nov 27, 2010 10:32 PM GMT
    Ducky46 saidthis is beyond insane... No physcian in this world would even write a script for you to get Ritalin...if it was medically required. Since I'm guessing it isn't you have no idea what the side affects would be.

    God what is wrong with you kids! Always looking for short cuts! STUDY!!!!!!


    I do study
  • Webster666

    Posts: 9217

    Nov 27, 2010 11:05 PM GMT
    I think you're nuts.
    No employer looks for your grades on your resume'.

    The problem isn't your grades.
    It's your irrational need for perfection.
    And, I suspect that this haunts the rest of your life.

    Get help...