"WINTER SOLDIER" testemonial conference this weekend from "IRAQ VETERANS AGAINST THE WAR"

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Mar 14, 2008 2:34 PM GMT
    Its doubtfull that the main Media sorces will carry this important event because the Bushies don't want these facts told and undercutting their war. This conference is to be much like the 100 or so Vietnam Veterans in which John Kerry testified about the resl story of what was happening in the Vietnam war back in the early 70's. This time there are around 200 speakers that have served in Iraq, and Afghanastan who will be testifying about the abuses/atrocities they have seen with their own eyes. The whole point of this organization is to get the truth out from people who know from first hand experience, so the public can understand why we need to end this war. You can visit their site at ivaw@ivaw.org, you can view video/audio/cable station viewing by going to http://ivaw.org/wintersoldier/howtowatch
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Mar 15, 2008 4:23 AM GMT
    I watched it on FSTV today, I took time off work to see it. Those guys don't speak for every vet or service member about the war. The VA segment was interesting. The footage of the original winter soldier in 1973 was an eye opener. I still say the war in Vietnam was just and righteous.
    I agree we need to end the war, but with a victory.
    Even if we pull our troops out, we will still be at war but it will come here to our country.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Mar 15, 2008 4:53 PM GMT
    John !!! many of us have asked you exactly what is victory in the Iraq war, please do tell us what we gain as a victory. It still appears to me that this is all over OIL, I'd be willing to bet that if you asked the Iraqy citizenry what victory would be, they'ed tell you it would be an end to US OCCUPATION, that they didn't have Alquida before we came, that they can handle when we leave. I looked at quite a few leading news sites this morning and there was nothing about the veterans "WINTER SOLDIER" testemonials. At the end of the "SLATE" online news there was an article titled --- "MEN WEAR GIRDLES NOW" ----"The WSJ fronts word that gut-suppressing, butt-supporting undergarments are the new big thing in mens fasion" AND THIS MY FRIENDS IS A GOOD EXAMPLE OF HOW MUCH WE CAN DEPEND ON TODAYS MEDIA TO TELL THE IMPORTANT FACTS ABOUT THE WORLD WE LIVE IN !!!!!!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Mar 15, 2008 5:03 PM GMT
    John43620 saidI still say the war in Vietnam was just and righteous.


    Then you are the last person in the country who still clings to that pathetic delusion. Tell me, how does the grape kool-aid taste? Like almonds?

    I agree we need to end the war, but with a victory.
    Even if we pull our troops out, we will still be at war but it will come here to our country.


    Complete nonsense, and a mindless rehashing of Republican talking points. Do they pay you to vomit up remarks like that? Surely you don't do anything so degrading for free.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Mar 15, 2008 5:17 PM GMT
    When the Iraqis behave like modern Germans and Japanese, Victory is secured.
    What are you going on about the media for? In "Winter Soldier", did you notice profound differences between the accounts of attrocities between the Vietnam vets and the Iraq/Afghanistan vets? "Winter Soldier" was a media court of public opinion with an agenda. Everyone there wouldn't be able to stand up to cross examination so, it was all staged for propaganda.
    The top guy of the Iraq Vets Against the War is a convicted Deserter and a son of Sandinistas, what the hell do you expect from the SOB? The only reason I watch FSTV and LINK TV is to see what kind of BS they put on, it's all propaganda. In FSTV and LINK TV, it's all bias and Bull.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Mar 15, 2008 5:43 PM GMT
    Its a thousand wonders to me that there aren't thousands more deserters. Whether he deserted or not, does't change the fact that he and all his members are trying to inform the public of just how unjust this war is, and that the public is being missiled about Iraq from the very beginning. Why is that so hard for you to believe? You cannot legitimately discount the hundreds that will testify this weekend during "WINTER SOLDIER" over what you said above. I'd say that the last thing the Bushies want is to confront their truth, because they know all too well just how badly their pet war has gone.
  • yogadudeSEATT...

    Posts: 373

    Mar 15, 2008 5:51 PM GMT
    John43620 saidWhen the Iraqis behave like modern Germans and Japanese, Victory is secured


    Good God, man.
    The reason the German and Japanese populations cooperated with the US after WW2 was because the people of those countries were shocked to find out what had been done in their name.
    What was done in the name of the Iraqi people to the citizens of the United States?
    Absolutely nothing.
    They didn't have weapons of mass destruction. There was no connection between Iraq and Osama Bin Laden.
    The Iraqi's have every right to be fighting us to the death. WE ARE OCCUPYING THEIR COUNTRY (and for none of the reasons we used to justify the war in the first place).
    Wake up to the truth, brother. It hurts.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Mar 15, 2008 5:58 PM GMT
    The "Winter Soldier" propaganda suits your agenda so, you're all for it. I watched it closely, those who testified would not be able to stand up to close scrutiny. You're not going to get fair and balanced on FSTV, Winter Soldier or LINK TV.
    When I retired from the Army I went to school and got a BA in Broadcast Journalism Communications with a minor in Poli Sci. I can see the two essential ingredients of Bias right off, framing and gatekeeping. On FSTV and LINK TV it isn't even subtle like it is in "corporate" media news.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Mar 15, 2008 6:04 PM GMT
    Oh yes, the world according to Rush Limburger. The whole world conspires against the righteous.

    Pardon me while I throw up.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Mar 15, 2008 6:05 PM GMT
    cosmicjewboy, the Iraqis had every opportunity to "fight us to the death" in 03. They lost and now want to fight us while hiding among their women and children, who are obviously complicit in most cases.
    The Iraqis will be much better off buckling under and
    behaving themselves. If they really want to hurt us, they can build better cars and electronics than our UAW workers.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Mar 15, 2008 6:09 PM GMT
    jprichva, What on earth makes you think I'm a Rush style dittohead? Your problem is, you assume and stereotype way too much.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Mar 15, 2008 6:16 PM GMT
    John43620 saidjprichva, What on earth makes you think I'm a Rush style dittohead? Your problem is, you assume and stereotype way too much.


    You're correct, John, I do assume. When I hear people spouting the same things that are printed on Republican talking-points memos, or that I've heard on the radio, I assume that the person in question has accepted the right-wing propaganda without examination. I do my own reading, thanks. And I don't need a radio talkshow, or a Congressional spokesperson, or a president for that matter, to tell me what to think.
  • yogadudeSEATT...

    Posts: 373

    Mar 15, 2008 7:57 PM GMT
    John43620 said
    The Iraqis will be much better off buckling under and
    behaving themselves.


    Is that what you would do if a foreign country invaded the United States?

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Mar 15, 2008 9:46 PM GMT
    John43620 you have a right to your opinion but this is a pretty scarey statement from anyone.

    You're right on the money with your reply cosmicjewboy!

    Great post realifedad!

    John43620 said
    The Iraqis will be much better off buckling under and
    behaving themselves.


    cosmicjewboy said
    Is that what you would do if a foreign country invaded the United States?

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Mar 15, 2008 10:07 PM GMT
    Any day now, John is going to tear down all the curtains in his home and toil his little fingers to their bare bones, cutting and tearing them and sewing them (like on Project Runway) until he fashions just the right dress to take a new pic of himself for RJ and announce to us that "frankly, I just don't give a damn, I just want to be loved. Is that so wroooooooong?".
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Mar 15, 2008 11:21 PM GMT
    John you spoke of this "WINTER SOLDIER" "fitting into my agenda", and referred to "it all being for propaganda". Well usually propaganda is used by a repressive regime to hide its actual actions and agenda, such as what has been going on with this bush war for 5 years. Young men who have the courage and the balls to stand up and testify to the wrongness of something as obviously morally wrong, illegal, and anything but for "IRAQI FREEDOM", just don't fall into the class of propagandizing for an agenda, at least not the usual considerations of those terms. Its quite obvious that their motives is to tell the unvarnished truth, how can you call their speaking out propaganda? What do they have to gain that would require thier using propaganda to further their purposes. John it just doesn't fit here with "WINTER SOLDIER" the only gain will be an end to attrocities, injustices, the illegal occupation, and if the Iraqi's are lucky they'll see an end to our controlling their assets of OIL. Now how do motives like these fall under a propaganda agenda? As for your saying these young people speaking out "couldn't stand up to scrutiny" then why on earth isn't FOX, RUSH LIMBAUGH, BILL O'RILEY, CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC, and other major news entities there to question them and to flush out their stories that "WON'T STAND UP TO SCRUTINY"? Please answer that puzzling question? PERSONALLY I THINK THEY AREN'T THERE AND BROADCASTING THESE EVENTS IS BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT TO BRING ATTENTION TO THE TRUTH THAT WOULD GO AGAINST THE BUSHIES. BY THE WAY YOU SHOULD LISTEN TO OUR YOUNG FRIEND cosmicjewboy, I THINK HE SPOKE SOME GOOD WISDOM YOU'ED DO WELL TO LISTEN TOO. I SWEAR JOHN, EVERYTIME YOU ISSUE OPINIONS PARROTING THE BUSHIES YOU SEEM TO DIG A DEEPER HOLE FOR YOURSELF. I know its hard for an ex-officer to face that his leaders have missled him, but you have been given enough information to just accept that the bushies are not what they have missled you to believe of their motives. AS THE YOUNG MAN SAID --- WAKE UP !!!!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Mar 16, 2008 2:36 PM GMT
    PhxAriz08 --- Wisdom from youth !!! Can you tell us Phx----- are there anti-war organizations there at the local colleges? (John you should listen !!!)
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Mar 16, 2008 9:27 PM GMT
    realifedad, I'm a retired soldier, a Cavalry Scout. Like I said, the testimony given wouldn't have been able to stand up to any cross examination. There was no cross examination, just accusitory stories. I am proud that the gay marine was at least articulate. He was the only one. It was all propaganda by a bunch of whiners.
    Their fearless leader was a Florida National Guardsman who deserted and went to the stockade. "Winter Soldier" is meaningless.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Mar 17, 2008 3:21 AM GMT
    Cosmic jewboy, if we were invaded and conquered I'd be the biggest collaborator in Ohio. I wouldn't hide behind civilians and fight an insurgency.
    It's an interesting phenomenon, our liberal ideology creates an advanced civilization and that advanced civilization gives us a cushy life and that cushy life breeds citizens who lack the will to defend that advanced civilization from the barbarians. The last time that occurred brought in the dark ages.
    With that said, if Americans are too weak to defend the Republic and we get invaded and conquered, we deserve it.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Mar 17, 2008 3:47 AM GMT
    realifedad, I get this all the time, "it's an illegal war". No it isn't. Where do you people get that crap?
    The only time we ever had an illegal war was in 1999 when we attacked the Serbs. It was a clear violation of the NATO charter agreed to by the Senate. It was not approved by the Congress, Clinton and Clark just did it on their own. The only good point about the war was the accidental bombing of the Chinese Embassy.
    The Serbs were doing us a favor. We had no business in the Balkans at all and we still don't. The war against the Serbs did serve one purpose though, it put the stained blue dress on the back burner of the press, for awhile anyway.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Mar 18, 2008 3:25 AM GMT
    John !!! John !!!! John !!!!!! In my book those young guys/girls speaking out against the war, are more patriotic than the soldiers who just do as their told without thinking. The ones speaking out against this "ILLEGAL WAR" are showing patriotism by not wanting to take part in war actions that missrepresent what American Democracy is supposed to represent. Yes it is an "ILLEGAL WAR" The only world powers that weren't against it were bribed by bush/cheney and company by being paid to fight with the US, so the bushies could say they had a "COALITION" As I recall the situation with Clinton taking our boys into the Serbian/Kosovo problem, he had the backing of the UN, I don't recall the whole world being upset about his actions. Somehow you have a double standard, you can accept and defend volumes and millions written and said against this bush war tragedy, but complain about an action by Clinton that about the whole world accepted as legitimate. kinda like the old story about "SWALLOWING THE CAMEL, BUT CHOKING ON A GNAT" Do you get my drift here??? come on John, face the facts, this war is over control of OIL, not to bring "FREEDOM TO IRAQIES" who ever heard of holding a gun to someones head to give them freedom !!! HOW DAMN STUPID !!!!!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Mar 18, 2008 3:44 AM GMT
    John43620 saidIt was a clear violation of the NATO charter agreed to by the Senate


    My understanding of the NATO charter is that the signatories agree to defend EACH OTHER in the event of an emergency.

    Why didn't NATO member countries invade the United States when we were taken over by coup d'etat in 2000?
  • yogadudeSEATT...

    Posts: 373

    Mar 18, 2008 4:14 AM GMT
    John43620 said
    It's an interesting phenomenon, our liberal ideology creates an advanced civilization and that advanced civilization gives us a cushy life and that cushy life breeds citizens who lack the will to defend that advanced civilization from the barbarians. The last time that occurred brought in the dark ages.


    Dude, we're living in the Dark Ages. And this time around, we're the Barbarians. But as you can see from all of the push back you've gotten in this forum, there are more and more people who are waking up and thinking for themselves. And just like the last Dark Ages lead to the Enlightenment, this one too will raise human consciousness to a higher level. It will create a world where people like George Bush, Dick Cheney, and their wounded flock of sheep are looked upon with compassion and gentle amusement....you know, like children.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Mar 18, 2008 4:33 AM GMT
    John43620 saidThe Iraqis will be much better off buckling under and behaving themselves.


    Leaving aside the rightness or wrongness of your statement (which others here have addressed), I am curious about its practicality. HOW do you see us getting them to buckle under and behave? By what means shall we accomplish this feat? We've already brought the full force of our military to bear, spent hundreds of billions of dollars, and five years in, we have made no headway, even with the recent troop surge.

    The fact is that we do not have the manpower to simultaneously contain and secure every city, village, and hamlet that *might* harbor insurgents, or to prevent said insurgents from obtaining more weapons. We can only be so many places at once, and whenever we show up, they go somewhere else, and come back after we leave. Without more Iraqi hearts and minds on our side (and we are losing more every day), this won't change, certainly not for the better. So what do we do? How do we achieve this "victory" you describe?

    Of course, we could always NUKE a couple of major cities, like we did in Japan. They'd certainly buckle under after that, right? Unfortunately, there are niggling little problems with that, like that fact that we are supposed to be *helping* these people, and promoting *democracy*, and supporting their democratically-elected government...
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Mar 18, 2008 1:04 PM GMT
    cosmicjewboy, Dude, we're already living the age of enlightenment. But thanks for proving my point about the effects of that enlightenment on subsequent generations.

    rotabilis, our military is successful in Iraq. This endeavor requires time, patience, and most of all, strength. Whiners like cosmic jewboy undermine the process.

    The United States has been drawn out of our isolation first in 1917, then 1941 and we had to stay for the cold war and now these crazy muslims. We have an opportunity to change the world from the old ways to the new ways, which is our ways.
    The islamic world is very much like medieval Europe. Their rulers are despots and many islamic states are ruled by "divine right", like the Popes provided for medieval kings. If we retreat, if we show weakness, change will not happen and the world will remain a mess. All of our past efforts will be for nothing. We will have allowed a tremendous opportunity to pass humanity by.
    Our generation needs to display the strength to accomplish this. We may not see fruition in our lifetime, it might take that long, but it's worth it.