BUFFETT: TRICKLE-DOWN THEORY HAS FAILED

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 21, 2010 11:55 PM GMT
    "Billionaire Warren Buffett rebutted claims that the Obama administration is unjustly hurting business orders with high taxes by saying that in fact, the wealthy have never had it so good.

    "I think that people at the high end, people like myself, should be paying a lot more in taxes. We have it better than we've ever had it," he told ABC's Christiane Amanpour in a clip played on "This Week" on Sunday.

    When Amanpour pointed to critics' claims that the very wealthy need tax cuts to spur business and capitalism, Buffett replied, "The rich are always going to say that, you know, 'Just give us more money, and we'll go out and spend more, and then it will all trickle down to the rest of you.' But that has not worked the last 10 years, and I hope the American public is catching on." ..."

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/21/warren-buffett-paying-more-taxes_n_786516.html

    Now lets try trickle up, Give methe tax cuts. ... icon_wink.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 22, 2010 12:15 AM GMT
    it might have to do largely with the fact that America doesn't produce much, or in other words your imports are greater than your exports therefore there is no real creation of wealth... just monetary easing thru the printing of more paper.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 22, 2010 12:22 AM GMT
    5ebastian saidit might have to do largely with the fact that America doesn't produce much, or in other words your imports are greater than your exports therefore there is no real creation of wealth... just monetary easing thru the printing of more paper.

    nukecanada.png
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 22, 2010 12:25 AM GMT
    Give us middle class the tax cut and we are much more likely to spend that extra money. And when there is enough of us spending it, it may create another job at a port unloading a ship, a clerk at a retail store, an order picker and shipper at an Amazon warehouse, or a truck driver delivering product and then each of these people become consumers. The spending of the middle class creates wealth in this country. Let it trickle up.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 22, 2010 12:35 AM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    Heartrobb saidGive us middle class the tax cut and we are much more likely to spend that extra money. And when there is enough of us spending it, it may create another job at a port unloading a ship, a clerk at a retail store, an order picker and shipper at an Amazon warehouse, or a truck driver delivering product and then each of these people become consumers. The spending of the middle class creates wealth in this country. Let it trickle up.


    But the one problem with your plan is... the middle class have had that tax cut since 2003.... so if they haven't been spending it over the past 2 years, what makes you think they'll start spending it tomorrow?



    I am spending it. Give me more.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 22, 2010 12:39 AM GMT
    Caslon16000 said"Billionaire Warren Buffett rebutted claims that the Obama administration is unjustly hurting business orders with high taxes by saying that in fact, the wealthy have never had it so good.

    "I think that people at the high end, people like myself, should be paying a lot more in taxes. We have it better than we've ever had it," he told ABC's Christiane Amanpour in a clip played on "This Week" on Sunday.

    When Amanpour pointed to critics' claims that the very wealthy need tax cuts to spur business and capitalism, Buffett replied, "The rich are always going to say that, you know, 'Just give us more money, and we'll go out and spend more, and then it will all trickle down to the rest of you.' But that has not worked the last 10 years, and I hope the American public is catching on." ..."

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/21/warren-buffett-paying-more-taxes_n_786516.html

    Now lets try trickle up, Give methe tax cuts. ... icon_wink.gif


    Why doesn't Buffett just donate half of his fortune to the government then if he thinks this?
  • Webster666

    Posts: 9217

    Nov 22, 2010 12:44 AM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    Heartrobb saidGive us middle class the tax cut and we are much more likely to spend that extra money. And when there is enough of us spending it, it may create another job at a port unloading a ship, a clerk at a retail store, an order picker and shipper at an Amazon warehouse, or a truck driver delivering product and then each of these people become consumers. The spending of the middle class creates wealth in this country. Let it trickle up.


    But the one problem with your plan is... the middle class have had that tax cut since 2003.... so if they haven't been spending it over the past 2 years, what makes you think they'll start spending it tomorrow?




    If the filthy rich people's tax cut expires, they won't even notice the difference, and there certainly won't be any change in their lifestyle because of it.

    But, for the poor (the Republicans have already successfully wiped out the middle class), if their tax cut expires, they have to decide what to cut out of their budget:
    --the house payment ?
    --the car payment ?
    --the rent ?
    --the credit card payment ?
    --food
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 22, 2010 1:32 AM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    Heartrobb saidGive us middle class the tax cut and we are much more likely to spend that extra money. And when there is enough of us spending it, it may create another job at a port unloading a ship, a clerk at a retail store, an order picker and shipper at an Amazon warehouse, or a truck driver delivering product and then each of these people become consumers. The spending of the middle class creates wealth in this country. Let it trickle up.


    But the one problem with your plan is... the middle class have had that tax cut since 2003.... so if they haven't been spending it over the past 2 years, what makes you think they'll start spending it tomorrow?
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Come on SB, where have you been ?? The jobs have been migrating accross the ocean for ten years or more now, jobs have dissappeared in large part because of that, for the sake of Corp profits, then the banks chopped, divided, redivided and chopped some more to gample and make bets against, home mortgages (oversimplified I know) ruining the housing market and nearly bringing down the banks with it. this cause more jobs to go which trickled out into a lot of other emplyment areas causing a loss of somewhere around 15 million jobs. Add to this that insurance, health costs, education expenses, travel, gas and heating expenses have risen several times higher than the inflation rates. OIL companies got very very rich at the middle income spending publics expense. Those increases in costs of necessities have been increasing many times faster than the inflation rate, so your point about the middle class not spending doesn't anywhere near fit the situation. What little the middle and lower income groups have even had to spend is all that's keeping the economy even crawling.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 22, 2010 1:48 AM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    Webster666 said

    If the filthy rich people's tax cut expires, they won't even notice the difference, and there certainly won't be any change in their lifestyle because of it.


    Oh, so a single person earning $200,001 is now "filthy rich" huh? icon_rolleyes.gif
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Keep in mind that the taxable incomes over $250,000 is a figure after consideration of all deductions, right offs, dependents, business expenses, depreciations, charitable contributions and so on. Taxes aren't even a consideration until all the deductions are taken off. the same goes for your figure of $200,001. Anyone with these net incomes for tax purposes is doing very well indeed. If I have a net income of say $240,000 taxable income, I'd still be under Obama's tax increase poiint and my monthly taxable income averages out to be $20,000 a month, and yes that is being RICH !!! so don't try to pass it off that a family cannot afford to pay more taxes if they have taxable incomes of $250,000. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If a family has that much money they can easily afford to send the average of two kids to college and easily provide both a paid for car for their transportation. Unlike middle income families who can barely scrape up $20,000 extra over a five year period after their living expenses.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 22, 2010 4:15 AM GMT
    mocktwinkie said
    Caslon16000 said"Billionaire Warren Buffett rebutted claims that the Obama administration is unjustly hurting business orders with high taxes by saying that in fact, the wealthy have never had it so good.

    "I think that people at the high end, people like myself, should be paying a lot more in taxes. We have it better than we've ever had it," he told ABC's Christiane Amanpour in a clip played on "This Week" on Sunday.

    When Amanpour pointed to critics' claims that the very wealthy need tax cuts to spur business and capitalism, Buffett replied, "The rich are always going to say that, you know, 'Just give us more money, and we'll go out and spend more, and then it will all trickle down to the rest of you.' But that has not worked the last 10 years, and I hope the American public is catching on." ..."

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/21/warren-buffett-paying-more-taxes_n_786516.html

    Now lets try trickle up, Give methe tax cuts. ... icon_wink.gif


    Why doesn't Buffett just donate half of his fortune to the government then if he thinks this?


    Buffett has pledged to give away more than 50% of his fortune to charity before his death. As has Gates and about 50 other very wealthy families. What he is saying is that the middle class needs the tax cut and people of his ilk do not. The government has enormous debt so he's saying take from em others like me who can afford it, without whining.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 22, 2010 4:21 AM GMT
    5ebastian saidit might have to do largely with the fact that America doesn't produce much, or in other words your imports are greater than your exports therefore there is no real creation of wealth... just monetary easing thru the printing of more paper.


    Whoa... you are hired. But America cannot have you. icon_lol.gif

    Is it also possible that you might truly understand how a global corporation operates and what is required to re-invigorate production of goods in the U.S?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 22, 2010 4:51 AM GMT
    5ebastian saidthe US kinda put themselves in this position. Everything is bought on credit, and I dont think that kind of debt level was ever sustaintable. In the US, its profit for the taking meaning that its been a "race towards the bottom" as long as I can remember. A lot of the jobs are out-sourced because all that matters in a free-market enterprise is the corporations bottom line. Sustainability is an important concept that I hope fuels the new way of doing business globally. Central banks should be held accountable and I think that there should be a global banking tax so that these crazy leveraged derivatives and sub-prime mortgages never undermine the global world economy again. It was all just greed of the wealthy. In the past consumption feuled GDP whereas growth in commodities, manufacturing, labor,and investment in education came second to last. It should be the other way around. US should invest more in education, probably less in space travel (or whatever it is they do) and defense. It is no coincidence that the US has spent billions of dollars over the past decade in Iraq... it certainly wasnt to liberate its defenseless citizens.

    Oh good...you start paying to defend yourselves. I am tired of paying the taxes to cover your asses. Imagine what it would take if you can to protect your own country yourselves.

    I dont want to make the case for Goliath anymore. Take care of your own ungrateful asses.

    golitah.jpg
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 22, 2010 4:58 AM GMT
    5ebastian saidthe US kinda put themselves in this position. Everything is bought on credit, and I dont think that kind of debt level was ever sustaintable. In the US, its profit for the taking meaning that its been a "race towards the bottom" as long as I can remember. A lot of the jobs are out-sourced because all that matters in a free-market enterprise is the corporations bottom line. Sustainability is an important concept that I hope fuels the new way of doing business globally. Central banks should be held accountable and I think that there should be a global banking tax so that these crazy leveraged derivatives and sub-prime mortgages never undermine the global world economy again. It was all just greed of the wealthy. In the past consumption feuled GDP whereas growth in commodities, manufacturing, labor,and investment in education came second to last. It should be the other way around. US should invest more in education, probably less in space travel (or whatever it is they do) and defense. It is no coincidence that the US has spent billions of dollars over the past decade in Iraq... it certainly wasnt to liberate its defenseless citizens.


    LOL. Elysian isn't going to love you anymore after that one. I agree with a lot of what you've said but the RJ conservatives won't accept the idea that corporations or wealthy individuals should pay back to society.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 22, 2010 5:02 AM GMT
    5ebastian saidtypical american attitude. whatever dude.

    how many world wars is Canada gonna start. I mean really? icon_rolleyes.gif


    I don't think Canada is the real beneficiary of America's superpower status so much as Europe has been. (And, of course, Israel.)
  • Webster666

    Posts: 9217

    Nov 22, 2010 5:39 AM GMT
    5ebastian saidtypical american attitude. whatever dude.

    how many world wars is Canada gonna start. I mean really? icon_rolleyes.gif






    I don't know.
    But, they look like they're up to SOMETHING.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 22, 2010 7:23 AM GMT
    Nice to see Buffet is back to being all for the "little man" after demanding the government bail out the banks he owned and not let his stocks slip too far. I believe that Buffet has possibly even muzzled his vice chair of Berkshire Hathaway, Charlie Munger.

    Recent quotes from our friend Charlie;
    "“There’s danger in just shoveling out money to people who say, ‘My life is a little harder than it used to be,’” Munger said at the event, which was moderated by CNBC’s Becky Quick. “At a certain place you’ve got to say to the people, ‘Suck it in and cope, buddy. Suck it in and cope."

    "“Hit the economy with enough misery and enough disruption, destroy the currency, and God knows what happens,” Munger said. “So I think when you have troubles like that you shouldn’t be bitching about a little bailout. You should have been thinking it should have been bigger.”

    So, it is clear that we should all be thanking our lucky stars that the banks got the bailouts (Damn, I wish they were bigger so that Buffet and Munger had more to donate back to us...)

    Please understand that I am happy that Buffet is giving back to charities along with Gates and others. It is nice to see him mouthing the words "tax me more," but when he employs a man as vice chair who tells Americans that they need to "suck it in and cope" while he rakes in billions thanks to the tax payers I get a little suspicious. I guess that where 3 years ago I would have listed him among the great Americans (thanks to his contributions and work for charities) I now think a little less of him...

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 22, 2010 9:06 AM GMT
    Why not just take all the wealth of the rich and give it to the poor? Isn't that what everyone is saying anyway? Our problems are caused by rich people and if they were just not rich, poor people would not be poor? Tax them, rob them at gun point, whatever, and take their wealth and hand it to the poor and the world would be so much better? In the end, that is really what people are saying.

    It is the ignorance that wealth is a pie, a set number, and if one person has more then someone else will have less. It is the ignorance of the masses. Wealth is infinite. My getting more does not reduce the wealth of others. So all this talk about taxing rich people more is just based on the ignorance of wealth. Go read the Wealth of Nations. Stop reading Karl" I never did anything" Marx. Burn your college text books and read a few books by people that created wealth. From nothing. Their wealth did not come from taking wealth from others. I love Buffet, but he would agree. And I also feel wealthy people should give more if they can. But Buffet and Gates also believe that THEY should give more, personally. Not that they should be taxed so that one dollar taxed goes through bureacracy and becomes 9 cents given to charity.

    Liberals in the Sixties would say never trust government. Now those same old gray hairs say give more power to government. And they are teaching the next generation to do what they rallied against? It boggles me. What happened to that old generation that said NEVER trust government? Now they want government to agree to when they can get a prostate exam? lol

    All I can say, make your own wealth. Work hard at something you love. Don't set up your life so that you depend on anyone to take care of you. Don't fall into the false belief that someone else making a buck takes a buck away from you. Wealth is not a pie, it is infinite. Read Adam Smith, not Karl Marx. Prosper. Work hard. Achieve. Don't wait for help from others just do what you do well.

    And for those that disagree: I am sorry that you followed a path that did not support you financially. But it is what it is. Don't blame someone else. If you did what you did for the love of the career, awesome. But do not blame others for not paying you what you think you are worth. You are worth what the market decides, at that moment. It is harsh, but it is life.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 22, 2010 9:30 AM GMT
    I work for a company that saw an inefficiency in a system. And we solved that inefficiency. And by doing that, we grew from 2 people to 1,500. And the companies we serve love what we do. Both our clients and the end users. And they are willing to pay us because it is much more efficient for both parties. Both ends can do what they do better, and not waste time and money, because we do what we do and they do not have to. And they can stick to their core businesses without the waste of time and energy. And we make money. We created wealth for us not at the expense of anyone but by reducing waste of time and energy that existed. My clients are more productive and do better. They do better at what they do and do not waste time, energy and resources at what I can do better.

    That is a classic example of Adam Smith's "Wealth of Nations".
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 22, 2010 9:38 AM GMT
    Hey 5ebastion-

    I love guys that say they do not read what I say but they disagree with me. Isn't that the height of arrogance? You disagree but you did not read me? Are you a mind reader? And if you did not read me, why should anyone read your argument against what I said since it is based on what, a dream you had about what I wrote?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 22, 2010 9:41 AM GMT
    Yeah kid, when I hang out at your non profit do nothing think tank I might. Another example of a do nothing answer to a question.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 22, 2010 9:44 AM GMT
    Well as long as you can not read responses and answer them, I guess the conversation is shut down to your pre concieved notions.

    Have you been on Sally Jesse Rapheal with these powers? Or is it limited to your small world?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 22, 2010 9:54 AM GMT
    You will not read this, and I am kinda glad because you pretty much creep me out, but the real estate meltdown started with the government telling to banks to lend to at risk people. Andrew Cuomo and HUD started this. Telling banks that they had to loan to unqualified buyers. The Government started this, and YES the banks took advantage only originally to cover their risk at having to loan to unqualififed buyers but it started with HUD telling banks to loan to high risk applicants. Banks then bundled the loans and sold them off. But it started with HUD telling banks to sell loans to risky borrowers.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 22, 2010 9:58 AM GMT
    and I am sorry you have 34" waist but don't hold that against me. Eat less, exercise more. It will do wonders, kid.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 22, 2010 10:11 AM GMT
    RuffJustice saidBurn your college text books and read a few books by people that created wealth. From nothing. Their wealth did not come from taking wealth from others. I love Buffet, but he would agree.

    First off, you are going to tell me that wealth is infinite? Perhaps you were the Finance Minister in Zimbabwe; I hear that he agreed that there is no end to the number of dollars you can print to keep your citizens wealthy.

    Second, did you read anything about the actions of Buffet during the meltdown. He was on the phones and in the meetings demanding that HIS banks be bailed out be the tax payer. Yes, he made much of his wealth buying the right stocks at the right time over the last few decades. However, when the economy turned and threatened his holdings he had no problems demanding the government (read tax payers) bail him and his companies out. As of two years ago, he became a piss poor example of somebody who did not take wealth from others to become or remain wealthy.

    I read the rest, and aside from realizing that it is another example of a fine, condescending lecture there is not much worth responding to. Might I suggest that you tour with Munger and inform Americans that they need to just "suck it up?"
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 22, 2010 10:26 AM GMT
    Shucks, I was waiting for 5bastian, or Sebastion, to attack me with a better liberal idea. And I love that kind of give and take among guys that have different ideas. And I think he could. He can give me a good argument for his ideas. He can show where I am wrong and I will do my best to show where he is wrong.

    But it is never about the guys. The posters. Me or him. It is about the ideas. I might be wrong. He might be wrong. We obviously both have different world views.

    But I respect him and I hope he respects me. I argue ideas, not the person. And I think he might feel the same way. I am never arguing against the person, just the ideas.

    So be it