Shall I give my DNA to the police?

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 26, 2010 12:54 AM GMT
    The police here want gay men in Charlottetown here to voluntarily give DNA samples, to rule us out in a cold case investigation of the unsolved murder of a man 20 years ago. The police leads have run cold.

    The victim, Byron Carr was openly gay. He was found dead in his home. On the victim's underclohing there were DNA samples (semen) from the victim and from an unidentified male.

    Police now want gay men to allow themselves to be ruled out.
    Asked why they are asking gay men, the response was "we know he had sex with a gay man."

    "How do you know that?"

    "There was semen from another man."

    "How do you know it is from a "gay man" and not some closetted "straight man"

    "Are you asking straight men to offer DNA samples?"

    "No, just gay men."



    Should I give my DNA?

    I would like the case solved, and if this is there only hope then I can argue "why not, I have nothing to hide."


    But I was not even in the province then (I lived in Ontario) But should I then have to prove it just because I am gay?

    I feel as though my Charter Rights are at stake here. I appear in no criminal database so far - why should I put myself into one - especially when they are asking only "gay men?"


    The more I think about what I am being asked the more it feels wrong that they are asking this.

    I did make one trip to Charlottetown back in the EARLY 80s but how the heck can I even fugure out exactly when, then prove it? And should I come forward to prove my innocence? It feels as though the gay men are being treated as guilty, and we must prove our innocence, in the absence of probable cause.

    I have nothing to hide so could there be any harm in cooperating?

    But eliminating me as a suspect would not actually help find who did?

    I am really torn and I do not know what to think.



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    Nov 26, 2010 1:00 AM GMT
    Coincidentally, this came up as the Chief Justice of the PEI Supreme Court was speaking locally on The Role of Police in a Democracy. I was there with the Executive Director of AIDSPEI.

    We asked the Chief Justice if this violates our Charter Rights. He was unequivocal - "Yes."

    Interestingly, the Chiefs of Police of Summerside and Charlottetown were there to hear the question and the answer.

    Unfortunately, I did not get to ask our Police Chief about it, as he was talking with His honour, the Chief Justice. I didn't want to interrupt.

    Were you In our position [the gay men in Charlottetown] would you offer a DNA swab?

    (It is just a cheek swab)
  • slimnmuscly

    Posts: 541

    Nov 26, 2010 1:02 AM GMT
    I don't like the sound of this at all. Is there a gay attorney there you can consult?

    Edit: Just saw what you wrote about the chief justice. Sounds like you got the most definitive legal answer you could ask for.
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    Nov 26, 2010 1:03 AM GMT
    slimnmuscly saidI don't like the sound of this at all. Is there a gay attorney there you can consult?

    Yes., there is. I used him for my real estate and will.


    The Chief Justice suggested we consult an attorney. Great. Who can afford that?icon_rolleyes.gif

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    Nov 26, 2010 1:05 AM GMT
    O man give them it would not cost you any thing so why not.icon_biggrin.gif
  • slimnmuscly

    Posts: 541

    Nov 26, 2010 1:05 AM GMT
    What about a civil liberties group? They might represent "conscientous objectors" pro bono.
  • Sk8Tex

    Posts: 738

    Nov 26, 2010 1:06 AM GMT
    ...so wait...they expect a murderer to come forward and just....donate a sample? lol

    Who's bright idea was that is the more important question.. and if he was openly gay why is the sperm automatically evidence of guilt?

    Logic Fail icon_confused.gif
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    Nov 26, 2010 1:06 AM GMT
    DNA gives Charlottetown police new lead in 1988 homicide

    http://www.cbc.ca/canada/prince-edward-island/story/2008/09/19/pe-carr-dna.html

    Is this the same murder you're talking about, and no you shouldn't give your DNA to the police.

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    Nov 26, 2010 1:12 AM GMT
    Vladimir01 saidO man give them it would not cost you any thing so why not.icon_biggrin.gif


    That was my first thought. But then I started thinking about it. Make it personal now for you and think about it carefully. - would YOU?

    Once I give it to them it is there forever. gay men would be "in the system" like criminals.

    Doesn't feel so comfortable when I think of it like that.


    I'd be catalogued for the sole reason that I am gay.
    Not because they have any reason to suspect me of this crime.

    Or rather I AM a suspect I guess only because I am gay.

    substitute "native", "black" or "handicapped" and it gets even more repugnant.




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    Nov 26, 2010 1:12 AM GMT
    There was a similar case in Truro MA a few years ago involving a woman who had apparently slept around the town until her murder. Truro is a small town on Cape Cod and the pool of suspects was small. I think almost all the hetero male winter residents gave DNA samples and a match was eventually found.
    Yes it is a violation of your privacy rights and here in the U.S. an entire town couldn't be compelled to take part. On the other hand it would possibly help find the actual killer by eliminating everyone who couldn't have done it.
    You have to decide whether you care more about your rights or about getting justice for the gay victim. There are arguments on both sides.
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    Nov 26, 2010 1:15 AM GMT
    wushu18t saidDNA gives Charlottetown police new lead in 1988 homicide

    http://www.cbc.ca/canada/prince-edward-island/story/2008/09/19/pe-carr-dna.html

    Is this the same murder you're talking about, and no you shouldn't give your DNA to the police.


    Yes, that is the one.
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    Nov 26, 2010 1:15 AM GMT
    I don't think so.
  • Timbales

    Posts: 13993

    Nov 26, 2010 1:27 AM GMT
    I wouldn't.
  • Timbales

    Posts: 13993

    Nov 26, 2010 1:27 AM GMT
    I wouldn't.
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    Nov 26, 2010 1:28 AM GMT
    SanDiegoNewbie said...so wait...they expect a murderer to come forward and just....donate a sample? lol

    Who's bright idea was that is the more important question.. and if he was openly gay why is the sperm automatically evidence of guilt?

    Logic Fail icon_confused.gif


    Agreed. Why would the person who killed somebody come ahead and say here am your guy.
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    Nov 26, 2010 1:34 AM GMT
    asnextdoor said Why would the person who killed somebody come ahead and say here am your guy.

    It worked in the Truro case because the town was small enough that everybody knew everybody and knew who had or hadn't given a sample. In the Canadian case the population is bigger so peer pressure might not do it.
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    Nov 26, 2010 1:40 AM GMT
    None of this makes sense.

    The police have no leads, you are not a suspect, and they are asking WHO to register their DNA? Are they rounding up gay men by raiding bathhouses?

    This is gay man's semen? How would they know that?

    Reasoning behind this: every innocent man who registers exonerates them, leaving only those who don't register as the suspects? Sorry, the police sound like a bunch of doofuses.

    As badly as you (or anyone) would like this case solved, it won't be by using this tactic. None of the "evidence" will prove anything, nor advance their case. Sorry, the murder will remain unsolved.
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    Nov 26, 2010 1:49 AM GMT
    UpperCanadian saidOnce I give it to them it is there forever. gay men would be "in the system" like criminals.
    Yep. And then if the laws concerning gays ever changed for the worse (which is always possible), they'd be able to track everyone down very easily.
    I'd be extreeeeeeeemly nervous if that shit were to happen here, considering how our gay laws keep teeter-tottering on the scales.
  • barriehomeboy

    Posts: 2475

    Nov 26, 2010 1:59 AM GMT
    Straight men are obviously in charge of the investigation, and have not involved gay men as consultants in their logic.
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    Nov 26, 2010 2:20 AM GMT
    Lordee what a joke. Voluntary means no one guilty will give a sample (D'oh to the police).

    'Hello, we'd like to take your fingerprints for a murder investigation. No, not everyone's, just yours.'

    icon_eek.gif

    They should have asked everyone, men and women, and used another reason.

    Omg this is so Canadian, like this:




    -Doug
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 26, 2010 2:21 AM GMT
    I wouldnt, the men that give up their DNA to this purpose support this idiotic and offensive idea.
  • hikerC

    Posts: 170

    Nov 26, 2010 2:31 AM GMT
    I would. Actually there was a case in Toronto where a little girl (Holly Jones) was abducted and murdered and the police went around in her neighbourhood asking for DNA samples, and the bastard who actually killed her refused to cooperate. That put him in their radar and they ultimately arrested him.

    Why not make their job finding the murderer a little easier? Maybe I am a little naive with it comes to my rights, but I have nothing to hide, so swab away!
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    Nov 26, 2010 2:41 AM GMT
    hikerC saidI would. Actually there was a case in Toronto where a little girl (Holly Jones) was abducted and murdered and the police went around in her neighbourhood asking for DNA samples, and the bastard who actually killed her refused to cooperate. That put him in their radar and they ultimately arrested him.

    Why not make their job finding the murderer a little easier? Maybe I am a little naive with it comes to my rights, but I have nothing to hide, so swab away!


    I dont think it'll make catching the murderer easier at all. Think about it, if the police say "its a gay men, we need all gay mens DNA" well it's not like he can refuse and become a suspect, he can avoid the whole thing by saying he's not gay!

    It would be different if they required all males DNA, I'd do it if they required every male.However to narrow it down to say it was just gay men, thats ludicrous and I'd consider how safe i really am under the protection of people with those mindsets.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 26, 2010 2:41 AM GMT
    Speaking as retired from law enforcement; simply no. Your dna will remain in the data bank. It has nothing to do with whether you are innocent and have nothing to fear. It is a fishing trip and makes no sense. Your civil liberties are not being violated because they are simply asking, not demanding or obtaining warrants.

    some hair brain at the top is grasping at ridiculous straws. My advice: ignore it and move on................Keithicon_cool.gif
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    Nov 26, 2010 4:23 AM GMT
    I wouldn't.