Dear Socal, Mocktwinkie, SB, and others.....

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    Nov 28, 2010 3:15 PM GMT


    So, now what?

    Your opinions please.

    [/quote]


    -Doug
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    Nov 28, 2010 3:46 PM GMT
    Doug... I genuinely don´t think that they are sincere or intelligent enough to deal with this information.
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    Nov 28, 2010 3:51 PM GMT
    Lostboy saidDoug... I genuinely don´t think that they are sincere or intelligent enough to deal with this information.


    Well, the proof's in the pudding. So let's see what these men have to say.

    If they say nothing, the silence will be damning.

    -Doug
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    Nov 28, 2010 3:54 PM GMT
    I stated my opinion here.

    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/1254162

    The only other thing I would add is I am more concerned about the position of the elected officials, rather than individuals who may claim to represent some constituency. The Republican House leaders, as well as many others, such as Sen-Elect Marco Rubio, have emphasized the election was not an endorsement of the Republican Party or any of its platforms in general. Despite videos above, the trend is towards moderation on social issues.
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    Nov 28, 2010 4:07 PM GMT

    The conservative people in that vid and who they represent far outnumber the gay people in the party. Both groups (gay and straight) want social change, the gays wanting DADT killed, the conservative groups in the vid have other ideas at odds with the minority (gays) in their midst.

    Does your party believe in the voices or rights of minorities? It doesn't appear so.

    -Doug

    As well, these groups that far outnumber conservative gays hate the gays. Again, how do conservatives think about 'majority rules'?
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    Nov 28, 2010 4:13 PM GMT
    socalfitness said
    meninlove saidThe conservative people in that vid and who they represent far outnumber the gay people in the party.
    based on some poll results you care to share?


    Rofl, that's rather silly. Gay people make a tiny portion of the population. You're trying to imply they have a concentration in the conservative parties that outnumber the christian right? O.o

    -Doug
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    Nov 28, 2010 4:15 PM GMT
    Deleted that post you already quoted to update based on what I really meant.

    meninlove said
    The conservative people in that vid and who they represent far outnumber the gay people in the party. Both groups (gay and straight) want social change, the gays wanting DADT killed, the conservative groups in the vid have other ideas at odds with the minority (gays) in their midst.

    Does your party believe in the voices or rights of minorities? It doesn't appear so.

    -Doug

    As well, these groups that far outnumber conservative gays hate the gays. Again, how do conservatives think about 'majority rules'?

    The real question is do the conservative people in the video outnumber the socially moderate Republicans? I see no evidence that they do, and more examples of moderation influencing the mainstream of the Party, despite some platforms, which are written to appease all elements.
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    Nov 28, 2010 4:19 PM GMT
    socalfitness saidDeleted that post you already quoted to update based on what I really meant.

    meninlove said
    The conservative people in that vid and who they represent far outnumber the gay people in the party. Both groups (gay and straight) want social change, the gays wanting DADT killed, the conservative groups in the vid have other ideas at odds with the minority (gays) in their midst.

    Does your party believe in the voices or rights of minorities? It doesn't appear so.

    -Doug

    As well, these groups that far outnumber conservative gays hate the gays. Again, how do conservatives think about 'majority rules'?

    The real question is do the conservative people in the video outnumber the socially moderate Republicans? I see no evidence that they do, and more examples of moderation influencing the mainstream of the Party, despite some platforms, which are written to appease all elements.



    That's sidstepping; I'll grant that you're light on your feet.

    NEXT.
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    Nov 28, 2010 4:21 PM GMT
    meninlove said
    socalfitness saidDeleted that post you already quoted to update based on what I really meant.

    meninlove said
    The conservative people in that vid and who they represent far outnumber the gay people in the party. Both groups (gay and straight) want social change, the gays wanting DADT killed, the conservative groups in the vid have other ideas at odds with the minority (gays) in their midst.

    Does your party believe in the voices or rights of minorities? It doesn't appear so.

    -Doug

    As well, these groups that far outnumber conservative gays hate the gays. Again, how do conservatives think about 'majority rules'?

    The real question is do the conservative people in the video outnumber the socially moderate Republicans? I see no evidence that they do, and more examples of moderation influencing the mainstream of the Party, despite some platforms, which are written to appease all elements.



    That's sidstepping; I'll grant that you're light on your feet.

    NEXT.

    I obviously did not mean to suggest gays outnumbered conservatives. I had deleted that post before I knew you had already quoted it.
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    Nov 28, 2010 4:26 PM GMT
    socalfitness saidI stated my opinion here.

    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/1254162

    The only other thing I would add is I am more concerned about the position of the elected officials, rather than individuals who may claim to represent some constituency. The Republican House leaders, as well as many others, such as Sen-Elect Marco Rubio, have emphasized the election was not an endorsement of the Republican Party or any of its platforms in general. Despite videos above, the trend is towards moderation on social issues.


    The trend is towards moderation on social issues? Since when? The sad thing is... people in the middle hardly ever get involved with such issues --these fights are fought by mostly those who feel they have something to gain or lose.

    With what happened in California, Arkansas, Maine, and in Iowa (voters tossing out three Supreme Court Jusices) this past election... along with the tidal wave of newly elected conservatives... I believe republicans could easily turn these social issues around. Republicans have always been better at using fear than democracts.

    I believe there may be an assult on the church-state line, evolutionary theory in high schools, stem-cell research and other scientific research, Islam, gun control laws, the pro-choice movement, and sex-education along with gay rights. The religious right has been asleep these past couple years it seems--I fear it is beginning to wake up again.

    These people are well financed, well organized, fearful, and very outspoken. I know that Maine will have zero chance of legalizing gay marriage within the next 4-8 years as the House, Senate, and governorship is packed full with conservative majorieties.

    Sometimes I feel that gay conservatives hate gay liberals (the hate seems to go both ways btw) so much that they blind themselves to what social conservatives (including the many fiscal conservatives who are alos socially conservative) really want to do with this country... and to the power that the religious right actually has. Either that or they only care mostly about money, taxes, and "smaller government."

    This is why I will NEVER consider myself conservative (not even fiscal). my life does not revolve solely around money--social issues and the betterment of society are indeed important to me. In many ways, America has more in common with our enemies and thrid world nations than our allies.
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    Nov 28, 2010 4:30 PM GMT
    socalfitness saidDeleted that post you already quoted to update based on what I really meant.

    meninlove said
    The conservative people in that vid and who they represent far outnumber the gay people in the party. Both groups (gay and straight) want social change, the gays wanting DADT killed, the conservative groups in the vid have other ideas at odds with the minority (gays) in their midst.

    Does your party believe in the voices or rights of minorities? It doesn't appear so.

    -Doug

    As well, these groups that far outnumber conservative gays hate the gays. Again, how do conservatives think about 'majority rules'?

    The real question is do the conservative people in the video outnumber the socially moderate Republicans? I see no evidence that they do, and more examples of moderation influencing the mainstream of the Party, despite some platforms, which are written to appease all elements.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Are you trying to tell us that your ignoring the obviously strong influence of the tea bagger/far right in the republican party, who elected mostly candidates leaning toward their far right social agenda? Are you telling us that the fact as you stated that "despite some platforms, which are written to appease all elements" dosn't cause you some fear for loss of rights for you as a gay man ? You know you can be a democrat and be conservative on the national debt, and size of government, without threatening your own interests as a gay man. Gay people voting for republicans who very obviously would put them back in the closet is a completely self defeating act. WHAT ARE YOU THINKING ??
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    Nov 28, 2010 4:37 PM GMT



    Thanks realifedad and conscienti1984. I am trying, though, to get the conservatives on here to explain this video. So if heated rhetoric can be kept from this topic that would be greatly appreciated. Hopefully they're watching the whole thing and how these two large group's representatives attack the gay conservatives.

    I was told in past posts that the conservatives didn't really care about social issues and that it was all fiscal, and that the recent vote was only about that.

    So now what?

    -Doug
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    Nov 28, 2010 4:39 PM GMT
    socalfitness saidDeleted that post you already quoted to update based on what I really meant.

    meninlove said
    The conservative people in that vid and who they represent far outnumber the gay people in the party. Both groups (gay and straight) want social change, the gays wanting DADT killed, the conservative groups in the vid have other ideas at odds with the minority (gays) in their midst.

    Does your party believe in the voices or rights of minorities? It doesn't appear so.

    -Doug

    As well, these groups that far outnumber conservative gays hate the gays. Again, how do conservatives think about 'majority rules'?

    The real question is do the conservative people in the video outnumber the socially moderate Republicans? I see no evidence that they do, and more examples of moderation influencing the mainstream of the Party, despite some platforms, which are written to appease all elements.


    Numbers do matter--but what matters more are the opinions of those who feel compelled to vote every election on every issue AND how strongly they hold those opinions.

    Are moderate republicans motivated to go vote for marriage equality during an off-year election? Would they go to the polls specifically to vote against the position of social conservatives? And which side would have the more voters... Socially conservative Republicans or Socially moderate republicans? THAT is the question you should be asking. (Not to mention the scores of democrats who are also socially conservative.)

    I am not as confident as you are in overlooking the power of social conservatives ... then again, I am not a "republican apologist." The numbers may be slowly changing... but social conservatives, Fox News (and other media platforms for social consevratism), [mega]churches, and religious leaders/pudnits still hold much power in this country.
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    Nov 28, 2010 4:42 PM GMT
    meninlove said


    Thanks realifedad and conscienti1984. I am trying, though, to get the conservatives on here to explain this video. So if heated rhetoric can be kept from this topic that would be greatly appreciated. Hopefully they're watching the whole thing and how these two large group's representatives attack the gay conservatives.

    I was told in past posts that the conservatives didn't really care about social issues and that it was all fiscal, and that the recent vote was only about that.

    So now what?

    -Doug


    I heard that too--that the Tea Party was not partisan nor did it care for scoial issues. This new wave of conservatism was to mainly concentrate on fiscal issues.

    I came very close to actually believing it... now I'm not sure.
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    Nov 28, 2010 4:44 PM GMT
    realifedad saidAre you trying to tell us that your ignoring the obviously strong influence of the tea bagger/far right ... You know you can be a democrat and be conservative on the national debt, and size of government, without threatening your own interests as a gay man.

    A moderate Democrat is ineffective as the party is currently led by the so-called progressives. Many of the moderates are gone because people did not want to support or keep in power the likes of Pelosi. Only other thing, I don't generally use the forum ignore feature; I like to at least scan posts. I am somewhat particular with whom I associate even on the internet. As long as you continue to use uncouth terms, don't expect any responses from me.
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    Nov 28, 2010 4:49 PM GMT
    socalfitness said
    realifedad saidAre you trying to tell us that your ignoring the obviously strong influence of the tea bagger/far right ... You know you can be a democrat and be conservative on the national debt, and size of government, without threatening your own interests as a gay man.

    A moderate Democrat is ineffective as the party is currently led by the so-called progressives. Many of the moderates are gone because people did not want to support or keep in power the likes of Pelosi. Only other thing, I don't generally use the forum ignore feature; I like to at least scan posts. I am somewhat particular with whom I associate even on the internet. As long as you continue to use uncouth terms, don't expect any responses from me.


    Progressives? Please do explain how Obama is progressive. And more importantly... why do YOU believe he is progressive and what evidence do you have to back up that belief? And if you use terms like socialism, progressivism, communism, etc. please describe in YOUR OWN WORDS what those terms actually mean. I am seriously interested in your response.
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    Nov 28, 2010 4:50 PM GMT
    I am a proud Tea Party member and attend 90% of the meetings. While attending these meetings we have NEVER discussed social issues. This is what I support

    From GOProud's website in the About Section

    What we believe
    We are conservatives who believe in limited government, individual liberty, free markets, a strong national defense and a confident foreign policy. We believe that every individual should be equal under the law. Click here to learn about our federal legislative priorities.



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    Nov 28, 2010 4:54 PM GMT
    OK CHRIS6464, then what's with the video?
    GOProud is not a separate political party; if it was I'd be inclined to consider its positioning. It is a tiny minority in an ocean of social conservatives.

    -Doug


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    Nov 28, 2010 4:56 PM GMT
    CHRIS6464 saidI am a proud Tea Party member and attend 90% of the meetings. While attending these meetings we have NEVER discussed social issues. This is what I support

    From GOProud's website in the About Section

    What we believe
    We are conservatives who believe in limited government, individual liberty, free markets, a strong national defense and a confident foreign policy. We believe that every individual should be equal under the law. Click here to learn about our federal legislative priorities.





    This is good to hear... but remember what part of the country you live in icon_lol.gif Would the guy in the video from Tea Party Nation disagree with the mission of your chapter then?
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    Nov 28, 2010 4:57 PM GMT
    I would be open to supporting a Democrat who is for cutting government spending, cutting taxes for EVERYONE, and shrinking the size of the federal government. Any Democrat who is in support for these issues got voted out. I dont support anything that Obama or the Congress has done in the last 2 years. Why would I vote for a party that is against 85% of what I stand for?
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    Nov 28, 2010 5:00 PM GMT
    conscienti1984 said
    CHRIS6464 saidI am a proud Tea Party member and attend 90% of the meetings. While attending these meetings we have NEVER discussed social issues. This is what I support

    From GOProud's website in the About Section

    What we believe
    We are conservatives who believe in limited government, individual liberty, free markets, a strong national defense and a confident foreign policy. We believe that every individual should be equal under the law. Click here to learn about our federal legislative priorities.





    This is good to hear... but remember what part of the country you live in icon_lol.gif Would the guy in the video from Tea Party Nation disagree with the mission of your chapter then?



    I really dont care what that guy thinks. Its one persons opinion. Also from the GOProuds website, a letter to congress signed by leaders of the Tea Party Movement. See below.



    Tea Party Leaders Release Letter Urging House and Senate GOP to Avoid Social Issues
    For Immediate Release
    November 15, 2010
    Tea Party Leaders Release Letter Urging House and Senate GOP to Avoid Social Issues
    (Washington, D.C.) – Today, a group of Tea Party leaders and activists released the following open letter to Rep. John Boehner (R-OH) and Sen. Mitch McConnell (R-KY). The letter urges Republicans in Congress to avoid social issues and focus instead on issues of economic freedom and individual liberty:

    Dear Senator McConnell and Representative Boehner,

    On behalf of limited government conservatives everywhere we write to urge you and your colleagues in Washington to put forward a legislative agenda in the next Congress that reflects the principles of the Tea Party movement.

    Poll after poll confirms that the Tea Party’s laser focus on issues of economic freedom and limited government resonated with the American people on Election Day. The Tea Party movement galvanized around a desire to return to constitutional government and against excessive spending, taxation and government intrusion into the lives of the American people.

    The Tea Party movement is a non-partisan movement, focused on issues of economic freedom and limited government, and a movement that will be as vigilant with a Republican-controlled Congress as we were with a Democratic-controlled Congress.

    This election was not a mandate for the Republican Party, nor was it a mandate to act on any social issue, nor should it be interpreted as a political blank check.

    Already, there are Washington insiders and special interest groups that hope to co-opt the Tea Party’s message and use it to push their own agenda – particularly as it relates to social issues. We are disappointed but not surprised by this development. We recognize the importance of values but believe strongly that those values should be taught by families and our houses of worship and not legislated from Washington, D.C.

    We urge you to stay focused on the issues that got you and your colleagues elected and to resist the urge to run down any social issue rabbit holes in order to appease the special interests.

    The Tea Party movement is not going away and we intend to continue to hold Washington accountable.

    Sincerely,

    Christopher R Barron
    Chairman of the Board, GOProud
    Andrew Ian Dodge
    Coordinator, Maine Tea Party Patriots
    Pam Stevenson
    Coordinator, Arizona Tea Party Patriots
    Dianna Greenwood
    Executive Director, New American Patriots (Ashland, OH)
    Jim Mason II
    Chairman and State Coordinator, Nebraska’s Tea Party Patriots
    Ralph King
    Co-coordinator Cleveland Tea Party Patriots
    Co-coordinator State of Ohio Tea Party Patriots
    Jack Lien
    Coordinator, Tea Party Patriots of Great Malls (Montana)
    Tammy Bruce
    National Radio Talk Show Host
    JP Weber
    Coordinator, Annapolis (Maryland) Tea Party
    Doug Welch,
    Blogger and member Southern Illinois Tea Party
    Bruce Carroll
    Conservative Activist and Blogger
    Pam Stout
    Coordinator, Sandpoint Idaho Tea Party Patriots
    Dan Blatt
    Conservative Activist and Blogger
    Everett Wilkinson
    Coordinator, Florida Tea Party
    Jimmy LaSalvia
    Executive Director, GOProud
    Paul Crockett
    President Santa Clara (California) Tea Party
    David Thor Andreasen
    Cumberland County (Maine) Tea Party






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    Nov 28, 2010 5:01 PM GMT
    conscienti1984 said
    CHRIS6464 saidI am a proud Tea Party member and attend 90% of the meetings. While attending these meetings we have NEVER discussed social issues. This is what I support

    From GOProud's website in the About Section

    What we believe
    We are conservatives who believe in limited government, individual liberty, free markets, a strong national defense and a confident foreign policy. We believe that every individual should be equal under the law. Click here to learn about our federal legislative priorities.





    This is good to hear... but remember what part of the country you live in icon_lol.gif Would the guy in the video from Tea Party Nation disagree with the mission of your chapter then?


    BTW, its good to see a liberal on here who doesn't shout out hatred at people he disagrees with.
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    Nov 28, 2010 5:06 PM GMT
    Here CHRIS6464, the social issues of GOProud. In bold.

    2 – HEALTHCARE REFORM – Free market healthcare reform. Legislation that will allow for the purchase of insurance across state lines – expanding access to domestic partner benefits; emphasizing individual ownership of healthcare insurance – such a shift would prevent discriminatory practices by an employer or the government.

    4 – DON’T ASK, DON’T TELL REPEAL – Repeal of the military’s Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell policy.

    6 – FIGHTING GLOBAL EXTREMISTS – Standing strong against radical regimes who seek to criminalize gays and lesbians.



    7 – DEFENDING OUR CONSTITUTION – Opposing any anti-gay federal marriage amendment.



    These are the very things that ocean of religious-right conservatives are determined to stop GOProud from acheiving. .

    Number 6 is interesting. No statement in this list about extremists in their own party or country, just other countries.
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    Nov 28, 2010 8:41 PM GMT
    CHRIS6464 saidI am a proud Tea Party member and attend 90% of the meetings. While attending these meetings we have NEVER discussed social issues. This is what I support

    From GOProud's website in the About Section

    What we believe
    We are conservatives who believe in limited government, individual liberty, free markets, a strong national defense and a confident foreign policy. We believe that every individual should be equal under the law. Click here to learn about our federal legislative priorities.


    CHRIS6464, we are very interested in your remarks above.
    Please briefly explain your definition (in 2-3 sentences or more) precisely what the following means: 1) limited government; 2) individual liberty; 3) free markets; 4) a strong national defense; and, 5) a confident foreign policy.
    Then, please finish with a few sentences with your definition how those issues would be achieved.

    Thanks.
  • rnch

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    Nov 28, 2010 8:45 PM GMT
    (SB is busy looking for a conservative website article to cut & paste)

    icon_lol.gif