Don't Ask, Don't Tell is not going anywhere."

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    Nov 29, 2010 4:31 AM GMT
    WASHINGTON -- Senator Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) predicted on Sunday that the military's Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy would not be repealed during the remaining weeks Congress is in session this calendar year.

    "The South Carolina Republican, a proponent of the law banning openly gay service in the armed forces, said definitively that there was no support for repeal on the Republican side of the aisle. He called for an additional study to determine whether the military itself favored overturning the 17-year-old legislation.

    "This is a political promise made by Senator Obama when he was running for president," said Graham, during an appearance on Fox News Sunday. "There is no groundswell of opposition to Don't Ask, Don't Tell coming from our military. This is all politics. I don't believe there is anywhere near the votes to repeal Don't Ask, Don't Tell. On the Republican side, I think we will be united in the lame duck [session] and the study I would be looking for is asking military members: Should it be repealed, not how to implement it once you as a politician decide to repeal it. So I think in a lame duck setting Don't Ask, Don't Tell is not going anywhere."

    Graham is, by virtue of the fact that he has served in the military (as a JAG lawyer), widely considered a leading GOP spokesman on defense matters. With respect to DADT, however, it's unclear to what extent his concerns reflect those of his colleagues. While Graham's top ally in the chamber -- Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) -- has also moved the goalposts for DADT repeal, others have been more sympathetic to revising or overturning the law. That list includes Sens. Lisa Murkowksi (R-Alaska), Olympia Snowe (R-Maine) and even Jon Ensign (R-Nev.)."

    The Huffington Post

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    Nov 29, 2010 6:34 AM GMT
    It seems the US is just going backwards in some ways lately. I wouldn't be surprised if DADT were never lifted. I'm sure the new health-care law will go right out the door however.

    What further pisses me off about this issue is this video



    Surely, the rest of the world is looking and is watching "US" continue with this ridiculous infighting.
  • jeepguySD

    Posts: 651

    Nov 29, 2010 7:10 AM GMT
    Senator Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) [said] ...the study I would be looking for is asking military members: Should it be repealed, not how to implement it once you as a politician decide to repeal it.



    First of all, since when is the military a democracy? Majority rule does not apply to a military organization. Commanders don't usually ask troops, "hey, what do you guys think we should do." So, Senator Graham's suggestion is patently ridiculous.

    A second point that I would make is that the DoD survey that was already done did not ask "how to implement" but was more about attitudes concerning lifting the ban. I strongly suspect that even if the vast majority of service members said "we oppose the continued ban of gay and lesbian service members," people like Senators Graham and McCain would find reasons -- mostly irrational -- to argue in favor of retaining the ban.

    This rhetoric is no surprise coming from Graham.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19133

    Nov 29, 2010 7:18 AM GMT
    I think we should wait and see how the vote goes (if they vote) rather than make predictions based on the opinions or voices of a few spokes people in Congress.
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    Nov 29, 2010 1:09 PM GMT
    Anyone who supports DADT should be sentenced to prison. I'm not joking.
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    Nov 29, 2010 1:13 PM GMT
    One reason this ban is still in place, I believe, is because men like Graham and McCain see our military as being too 'holy' to be 'defiled' by the likes of gay men and women. Although the raping of women is always okay.

    What where the attitudes concerning minorities and women joining the military all those years ago? I doubt that things have changed.
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    Nov 29, 2010 2:35 PM GMT
    If I were a betting man, I'd bet with Graham's "tea bagger"/republican enemies, who within a year ago were accusing him of being GAY. Listen to this guy talk, I'll bet he's another closet gay, a Larry Craig type who speaks out against gay rights to cover his ass. As for the old fart McCain, he's doing nothing but playing to his now more far right base, he has completely flipped sides on this issue and isn't at all credible.
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    Nov 29, 2010 4:27 PM GMT
    Fuck the GOP. They hate us. And anyone here who doesn't recognize that is either delusional or wallowing in self-loathing. Graham and McCain aren't just "some spokes people." They are at the vanguard of today's GOP.

    Fuck the GOP.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19133

    Nov 29, 2010 4:30 PM GMT
    OtterJoq saidFuck the GOP. They hate us. And anyone here who doesn't recognize that is either delusional or wallowing in self-loathing.



    Did you say "delusional"? Check your mirror icon_wink.gif
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    Nov 29, 2010 4:35 PM GMT
    Caslon16000 said

    "This is a political " said Graham, during an appearance on Fox News Sunday. " This is all politics. "



    'Graham' is what the voters were trying to illustrate this past election.. they've had enough of "politics".. run the fucking country moron... everything the GOP does is 'political'.. the party of "no" is just their 'politics' as usual. They couldn't do anything correctly if their mothers were burning at a stake.
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    Nov 29, 2010 4:35 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    OtterJoq saidFuck the GOP. They hate us. And anyone here who doesn't recognize that is either delusional or wallowing in self-loathing.



    Did you say "delusional"? Check your mirror icon_wink.gif


    So you were HAPPY to hear Graham's statement? Explain why what he said is a GOOD thing for our community, CJ.
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    Nov 29, 2010 4:36 PM GMT
    OtterJoq said
    CuriousJockAZ said
    OtterJoq saidFuck the GOP. They hate us. And anyone here who doesn't recognize that is either delusional or wallowing in self-loathing.



    Did you say "delusional"? Check your mirror icon_wink.gif


    So you were HAPPY to hear Graham's statement? Explain why what he said is a GOOD thing for our community, CJ.
    CuriousAZ most likely hasnt spent a fucking day in the service of defending this country.. I'd bet MONEY on that fact.
  • Citrushills

    Posts: 56

    Nov 29, 2010 4:52 PM GMT
    I don't believe much if anything will get done during the lame duck session or the next two years. And it's not the fault of the Republicans either. It is rather the fault of the Democrats who have become Republicans in drag. They have no spine, stand for no principles, have forgotten the base of their party, and for a very bad reason. Their only interest is in getting re-elected and in order to do that, they must earn the support of the major multiantional corporations which do NOT support ANY change. They are making money off the MIC and they want it to stay that way. They are making money off the policies that send American jobs overseas and they like it that way---as long as we get our cheap Ipods and TV sets. As a strictly consumer econonmy we are in the process of being almost literally taken over by China and India. I think you can kiss the idea that anything will be accomplished under Obama good-bye so DADT is probably here to stay a good while longer. The only hope I can see for this country to progress and not go backwards is to re-negotiate the free trade agreeements with some tarrifs, do an infrastructure and highway rehabilitation project, cut defense spending on the unnecessary wars in half, and raise taxes on the rich--that's right, do away with the Bush tax cuts permanently except on middle/lower class Americans. If George Soros breaks away from Obama, then Howard Dean and others will follow and a challenger for the nomination in 2012 will emerge and have a good chance of winning--that's our only hope in my oipinion.
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    Nov 29, 2010 5:09 PM GMT
    Citrushills saidI don't believe much if anything will get done during the lame duck session or the next two years. And it's not the fault of the Republicans either. It is rather the fault of the Democrats who have become Republicans in drag. They have no spine, stand for no principles, have forgotten the base of their party, and for a very bad reason. Their only interest is in getting re-elected and in order to do that, they must earn the support of the major multiantional corporations which do NOT support ANY change. They are making money off the MIC and they want it to stay that way. They are making money off the policies that send American jobs overseas and they like it that way---as long as we get our cheap Ipods and TV sets. As a strictly consumer econonmy we are in the process of being almost literally taken over by China and India. I think you can kiss the idea that anything will be accomplished under Obama good-bye so DADT is probably here to stay a good while longer. The only hope I can see for this country to progress and not go backwards is to re-negotiate the free trade agreeements with some tarrifs, do an infrastructure and highway rehabilitation project, cut defense spending on the unnecessary wars in half, and raise taxes on the rich--that's right, do away with the Bush tax cuts permanently except on middle/lower class Americans. If George Soros breaks away from Obama, then Howard Dean and others will follow and a challenger for the nomination in 2012 will emerge and have a good chance of winning--that's our only hope in my oipinion.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Buddy you certainly have me shouting AMEN in the AMEN corner !!!! We've basically got one party and that's the Corporations/big money interests "PARTY" Both party's put out a sham front of differing social and economic philosophies which do nothing more than barely cover that they are all pretty much bought and paid for !!!
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19133

    Nov 29, 2010 5:10 PM GMT
    OtterJoq said
    CuriousJockAZ said
    OtterJoq saidFuck the GOP. They hate us. And anyone here who doesn't recognize that is either delusional or wallowing in self-loathing.



    Did you say "delusional"? Check your mirror icon_wink.gif


    So you were HAPPY to hear Graham's statement? Explain why what he said is a GOOD thing for our community, CJ.



    I didn't say it was a good thing. What I said was your generalization of the whole GOP that, in your words, "hate us", and your assertion that anyone here who doesn't recognize that is either "delusional" or "self-loathing" was, in itself, "delusional".
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    Nov 29, 2010 5:13 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    OtterJoq said
    CuriousJockAZ said
    OtterJoq saidFuck the GOP. They hate us. And anyone here who doesn't recognize that is either delusional or wallowing in self-loathing.



    Did you say "delusional"? Check your mirror icon_wink.gif


    So you were HAPPY to hear Graham's statement? Explain why what he said is a GOOD thing for our community, CJ.



    I didn't say it was a good thing. What I said was your generalization of the whole GOP that, in your words, "hate us", and your assertion that anyone here who doesn't recognize that is either "delusional" or "self-loathing" was, in itself, "delusional".


    So then...which leading Republicans are fighting hard for justice and equality for the GLBT community?

    Yeah...that's what I thought.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19133

    Nov 29, 2010 5:16 PM GMT
    TropicalMark said
    OtterJoq said
    CuriousJockAZ said
    OtterJoq saidFuck the GOP. They hate us. And anyone here who doesn't recognize that is either delusional or wallowing in self-loathing.



    Did you say "delusional"? Check your mirror icon_wink.gif


    So you were HAPPY to hear Graham's statement? Explain why what he said is a GOOD thing for our community, CJ.
    CuriousAZ most likely hasnt spent a fucking day in the service of defending this country.. I'd bet MONEY on that fact.



    And who are you, General Patton? icon_rolleyes.gif I actually come from a very big military family. All the men in my family in the generations before me -- Dad, Uncles, Grand dads, etc -- all served long careers in the military and fought in wars. I was an Air Force brat. But in my generation there was no longer a draft and we never served. I actually almost went to the Air Force Academy per my dad's wishes, but changed my mind -- glad I did actually. Regardless, I have heard many opinions regarding DADT from the military men in my family and pretty much all feel that it should be repealed, but done very carefully. I tend to believe both Lindsay Graham AND John McCain may actually surprise us with their vote if/when that VOTE ever takes place. I don't really read anything either of those senators have said to mean "No on repeal" as meaning "Proceed with caution towards repeal". Sorry, but there is a difference.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19133

    Nov 29, 2010 5:27 PM GMT
    OtterJoq said

    So then...which leading Republicans are fighting hard for justice and equality for the GLBT community?

    Yeah...that's what I thought.



    As myself and several others have pointed out many MANY times around here, not ALL gays feel that their gayness is the center of their universe. If you do, then vote accordingly. Personally, I don't. It is but a fraction of my life and what is important to me in the bigger picture. Sorry if you have a hard time grasping that concept.
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    Nov 29, 2010 5:36 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    OtterJoq said

    So then...which leading Republicans are fighting hard for justice and equality for the GLBT community?

    Yeah...that's what I thought.



    As myself and several others have pointed out many MANY times around here, not ALL gays feel that their gayness is the center of their universe. If you do, then vote accordingly. Personally, I don't. It is but a fraction of my life and what is important to me in the bigger picture. Sorry if you have a hard time grasping that concept.


    It's not the center of my universe, either. But when high-powered politicians use that power to deny me of my rightful liberties, the issue becomes more important.

    The only thing I have a hard time grasping is why so many gay men are willing to accept second-class status in America.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19133

    Nov 29, 2010 5:45 PM GMT
    OtterJoq said
    CuriousJockAZ said
    OtterJoq said

    So then...which leading Republicans are fighting hard for justice and equality for the GLBT community?

    Yeah...that's what I thought.



    As myself and several others have pointed out many MANY times around here, not ALL gays feel that their gayness is the center of their universe. If you do, then vote accordingly. Personally, I don't. It is but a fraction of my life and what is important to me in the bigger picture. Sorry if you have a hard time grasping that concept.


    It's not the center of my universe, either. But when high-powered politicians use that power to deny me of my rightful liberties, the issue becomes more important.

    The only thing I have a hard time grasping is why so many gay men are willing to accept second-class status in America.


    You may walk around feeling like a 2nd class citizen -- talk about "self loathing". I have never felt that way, nor do I ever plan on feeling that way. There isn't a single second of the day that I think "Oh my God, they are trying to deny me my rightful liberties".
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    Nov 29, 2010 5:50 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    OtterJoq said

    So then...which leading Republicans are fighting hard for justice and equality for the GLBT community?

    Yeah...that's what I thought.



    As myself and several others have pointed out many MANY times around here, not ALL gays feel that their gayness is the center of their universe. If you do, then vote accordingly. Personally, I don't. It is but a fraction of my life and what is important to me in the bigger picture. Sorry if you have a hard time grasping that concept.


    While I do agree that being gay is only one part of my life, being with my partner now for over eight years makes it a very significant part of my life. When I hear people say things like, "It is but a fraction of my life," is like saying being gay is only about sex. The life I have built with my partner is much more than sex. We are a family and that is as important as anything else in my life. So fighting for the cause of gay rights and voting for candidates who are supportive is something I must do.
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    Nov 29, 2010 5:51 PM GMT
    TropicalMark saidCuriousAZ most likely hasnt spent a fucking day in the service of defending this country.. I'd bet MONEY on that fact.

    Well I have, and I also have immediate family members buried at Arlington, so you certainly don't own the exclusive right to claim service. Everything CuriousJockAZ said is right on the money.
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    Nov 29, 2010 5:54 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    OtterJoq said
    CuriousJockAZ said
    OtterJoq said

    So then...which leading Republicans are fighting hard for justice and equality for the GLBT community?

    Yeah...that's what I thought.



    As myself and several others have pointed out many MANY times around here, not ALL gays feel that their gayness is the center of their universe. If you do, then vote accordingly. Personally, I don't. It is but a fraction of my life and what is important to me in the bigger picture. Sorry if you have a hard time grasping that concept.


    It's not the center of my universe, either. But when high-powered politicians use that power to deny me of my rightful liberties, the issue becomes more important.

    The only thing I have a hard time grasping is why so many gay men are willing to accept second-class status in America.


    You may walk around feeling like a 2nd class citizen -- talk about "self loathing". I have never felt that way, nor do I ever plan on feeling that way. There isn't a single second of the day that I think "Oh my God, they are trying to deny me my rightful liberties".


    So when you hear Republican Sally Kern say that homosexuality is a bigger threat to our democracy than terrorism...When George W. Bush said in 2000 that he would not "knowingly" hire a homosexual...when Pug after Pug uses you and me and everyone else here as a tool to whip up fear and mistrust...You're okay with that?

    I'm not.

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    Nov 29, 2010 5:55 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    There isn't a single second of the day that I think "Oh my God, they are trying to deny me my rightful liberties".


    That's sad. Because there are MANY people who are trying to do just that.

    That doesn't bother you?
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    Nov 29, 2010 5:56 PM GMT
    socalfitness said Everything CuriousJockAZ said is right on the money.


    Puhleeze.