Awesome DADT discussion on the Rachel Maddow Show!

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    Dec 02, 2010 8:42 AM GMT
    What's up guys! I don't make it a habit of starting forum threads, but I figured a particular discussion of DADT on the Rachel Maddow show was quite interesting.

    The premise: using the experience of desegregating the military as a precendet for repealing DADT! It's a pretty awesome video (at least I think so)

    Enjoy guys...

    Peace, love, and non-fat chicken grease (lol...j/k)! icon_biggrin.gif


    here's the URL just in case the video does not show on this site: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#40464082
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    Dec 02, 2010 3:30 PM GMT
    This is great !!! There's no reason not to drop DADT, now that the military report is out and supporting ending it. Its plain to see that McCain's flip on its repeal is totally for his far right backers, Politics !!!!! I wonder how our gay republicans feel now about their vote for him whether for president or for Senator.
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    Dec 02, 2010 4:03 PM GMT
    What an incredible speaker he is. I'm impressed.

    This showed up on the top page of Google News. There are a lot of good points in this story, particularly as it relates to the myriad questions that will likely arise should DADT be repealed.

    http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/12/02/dadt.future.questions/

    On a smooth transition: It comes down to strong leadership, according to Defense Secretary Robert Gates and Adm. Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

    Sarvis agreed, saying that "leadership, education and training are the three key components. This is not reinventing the wheel. For there to be a smooth implementation, all three of those elements will have to be at the forefront."

    Singer, too, said, "Leadership is the key to success."

    "Essentially, if the ban is lifted, service men and women are going to be looking to their superior officers for guidance," he said.

    On privacy and discomfort over sharing bathrooms or housing: The report recommends "against separate facilities. ... The creation of a third or possibly fourth category of bathroom facilities and living quarters, whether at bases or forward deployed areas, would be a logistical nightmare, expensive and impossible to administer."

    The report's authors added that separate facilities would stigmatize gay and lesbian service members "in a manner reminiscent of 'separate but equal' facilities for blacks prior to the 1960s."

    On special minority status: "In a new environment in which gay and lesbian service members can be open about their sexual orientation, we believe they will be accepted more readily if the military community understands that they are simply being permitted equal footing with everyone else," the report said.

    On those discharged coming back: According to the report, those forced out under the law should be allowed to return, without the reason for their dismissal being considered as part of their application.

    On benefits for gay spouses or partners: The authors of the report urged more study, including a full review in a year of any policy change.

    Even with a repeal of "don't ask, don't tell," not all benefits would be available to gay service members and their partners because of the Defense of Marriage Act, in which the federal government defines marriage as a union between one man and one woman.

    On military housing: "We do not recommend at this time that military family housing be included in the benefits eligible for this member-designated approach," the report said. "Military housing is a limited resource and complicated to administer and a system of member designation would create occasions for abuse and confusion."

    On operational effectiveness: Canadian forces Maj. Gen. Walter Semianiw told the Brookings panel that he found "no impact to reflect on operational effectiveness by having men and women of any sexual orientation fighting together, be it in Afghanistan ... be it in Iraq, be it on many key peacekeeping missions over the many, many years."

    In their discussion of the report on Tuesday, Gates and Mullen agreed.

    On unit cohesion: Those in favor of changing the law point out that U.S. troops are already serving with NATO troops who are openly gay, so they believe concerns over unit cohesion are unfounded.

    For Cooper, who is openly gay and serving as a reservist, his combat experience in Afghanistan and Iraq taught him that being open is a nonissue.

    "Even before we were in a combat environment in Iraq and Afghanistan, we were already doing joint exercises with our NATO allies and we have been for decades," he said. "So have U.S. servicemen been serving next to open service personnel? Yes. In fact, some of them have been under the U.S. command."

    Cooper shared a personal story in which a gay Australian soldier came out in a very low-key way, which caused "no change in behavior."

    "He didn't walk up and say 'I'm gay.' He got a case sent to him from Melbourne and people said, 'Oh is that from your mom? Is that from your girl?' [He said], 'No, it's from my dude.'"
  • BlackBeltGuy

    Posts: 2609

    Dec 02, 2010 9:22 PM GMT
    I'm sorry and send all the hate mail you want. Rachael Maddow looks like Mary Lou Retton after a stroke. her voice irks me, I have to change the channel.
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    Dec 02, 2010 11:01 PM GMT
    Blackbeltguy saidI'm sorry and send all the hate mail you want. Rachael Maddow looks like Mary Lou Retton after a stroke. her voice irks me, I have to change the channel.


    That's an intelligent way to look at life - if you don't find people attractive or nice to listen to, they're useless. How positive and deep! icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Dec 02, 2010 11:09 PM GMT
    Blackbeltguy saidI'm sorry and send all the hate mail you want. Rachael Maddow looks like Mary Lou Retton after a stroke. her voice irks me, I have to change the channel.


    Why send hate mail when you position yourself to be blasted in the forums?

    You made yourself look like a fool.

    Spare us the sad attempts at comedy. Instead, why not focus on showing more love to your penis? Maybe one day your penis will love you back. icon_rolleyes.gif

    237890_616108.jpg
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    Dec 02, 2010 11:41 PM GMT
    realifedad said This is great !!! There's no reason not to drop DADT, now that the military report is out and supporting ending it. Its plain to see that McCain's flip on its repeal is totally for his far right backers, Politics !!!!! I wonder how our gay republicans feel now about their vote for him whether for president or for Senator.


    Not a gay Republican - registered Independent who would much prefer Hillary over Obama in the WH - but I did vote for McCain in the last election. And as an active-duty gay Soldier, I'm extremely disappointed in Sen McCain's position and flip-flopping on this subject.

    And if I was a single-issue voter, then that would be the end of this post. But I'm not. If you put a list side-by-side of global and domestic issues between Obama and McCain, then I still agree with McCain on *most* issues. If Sen McCain manages to block DADT repeal again, then... my life remains the same as it has as the previous 17 years of my service. My partner (of 13 years) and I will continue to drive on discretely, and I'll continue to proudly serve my country.

    In the real world, I'm an Independent. Much like Sen Lieberman (my favorite Congressman), I'm socially to the left and on national security matters I lean to the right. It's only in "Realjockland" where anybody that has an opinion to the right of Karl Marx is labeled as a "far right extremist."
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    Dec 03, 2010 12:26 AM GMT
    Maybe I'm setting myself up for hate mail, but I don't care.

    Simply put, Rachel Maddow's intellect, political acumen, and writing are truly outstanding and inspirational to me.

    This interview rocks! I want to see more allies like this former Secretary General of the Army be given outlets to be our advocates.

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    Dec 03, 2010 12:28 AM GMT
    09ARMYJOCK said
    realifedad said This is great !!! There's no reason not to drop DADT, now that the military report is out and supporting ending it. Its plain to see that McCain's flip on its repeal is totally for his far right backers, Politics !!!!! I wonder how our gay republicans feel now about their vote for him whether for president or for Senator.


    Not a gay Republican - registered Independent who would much prefer Hillary over Obama in the WH - but I did vote for McCain in the last election. And as an active-duty gay Soldier, I'm extremely disappointed in Sen McCain's position and flip-flopping on this subject.

    And if I was a single-issue voter, then that would be the end of this post. But I'm not. If you put a list side-by-side of global and domestic issues between Obama and McCain, then I still agree with McCain on *most* issues. If Sen McCain manages to block DADT repeal again, then... my life remains the same as it has as the previous 17 years of my service. My partner (of 13 years) and I will continue to drive on discretely, and I'll continue to proudly serve my country.

    In the real world, I'm an Independent. Much like Sen Lieberman (my favorite Congressman), I'm socially to the left and on national security matters I lean to the right. It's only in "Realjockland" where anybody that has an opinion to the right of Karl Marx is labeled as a "far right extremist."
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>My hats off to you for your sacrifices/service and for the reasonable way you approached this subject. My hope is still that the reapeal of DADT, Good to meet an agreeable person even when we might disagree, Take care !!!
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Dec 03, 2010 1:00 AM GMT
    As the gentlemen said .....
    The President for repeal
    The Pentagon is for repeal
    The service members want it as well ....... and so does the general public


    So why is it not being voted on ?




    BREAKING: Senate Republicans refuse to vote on DADT repeal before tax cuts
    December 1, 2010
    http://prop8trialtracker.com/2010/12/01/breaking-senate-republicans-refuse-to-vote-on-dadt-repeal-before-tax-cuts/
    Efforts to link the Bush tax cuts to the NDAA are the latest in a thinly veiled series of efforts by GOP Republicans to bring the lame-duck Senate to a halt.

    Again .................. it's the republicans