Kentucky Gov Backing "Creationist" Theme Park

  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Dec 03, 2010 2:33 AM GMT
    Now THIS is what I call a Recovery Plan

    Kentucky, Gov. Steve Beshear is trying to get State funds for the proposed Park
    and states that it will bring much needed jobs to his state

    “Bringing new jobs to Kentucky is my top priority, and with the estimated 900 jobs this project will create, I am happy about the economic impact this project will have on the Northern Kentucky region,” Beshear said


    Visit msnbc.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy

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    Dec 03, 2010 4:53 AM GMT
    Wasn't that on an episode of The Simpsons? icon_confused.gif
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I'm_Goin'_to_Praiseland
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    Dec 04, 2010 7:29 AM GMT
    This is bullshit! Seriously... how do these people ever get into power? KY already has a Creationism Museum... isn't that enough?

    How can the people of a 1st World nations--one of the most powerful in the world--allow this intellectual travesty to occur?

  • Dec 04, 2010 7:45 AM GMT
    Yea, it's definitely a Praiseland wannabe.

    How is it an intellectual travesty??
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    Dec 04, 2010 7:59 AM GMT
    workthestretch saidYea, it's definitely a Praiseland wannabe.

    How is it an intellectual travesty??


    The people behind this theme park are the same ones who started the Creationism Museum--they have an agenda to dismantle evolutionary theory and replace it with biblical literalism.
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    Dec 04, 2010 8:26 AM GMT
    conscienti198...The people behind this theme park are the same ones who started the Creationism Museum--they have an agenda to dismantle evolutionary theory and replace it with biblical literalism.


    Honestly it doesnt even matter...this is not going to impede on anyone's way of life; its a theme park...if you dont believe in creationism, quite frankly dont go...

    Pennsylvanian schools won the right to teach evolution in school...I dont understand why people are so scared or angry over things with theological themes...

    Its not gonna impede on your lives, or ours for that matter, so dont worry about it, plus there are gay people of various faiths as well...
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    Dec 04, 2010 8:43 AM GMT
    22YrOldGuy said
    conscienti198...The people behind this theme park are the same ones who started the Creationism Museum--they have an agenda to dismantle evolutionary theory and replace it with biblical literalism.


    Honestly it doesnt even matter...this is not going to impede on anyone's way of life; its a theme park...if you dont believe in creationism, quite frankly dont go...

    Pennsylvanian schools won the right to teach evolution in school...I dont understand why people are so scared or angry over things with theological themes...

    Its not gonna impede on your lives, or ours for that matter, so dont worry about it, plus there are gay people of various faiths as well...


    Okay, then let's argue it on state financial grounds. He wants state funds to contribute to this project? If I lived in Kentucky, wouldn't want MY taxpayer money being used to fund this.

    I'm for job growth and employment, but this isn't the way to do it.
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    Dec 04, 2010 8:48 AM GMT
    QUOTE AUTHOR GOES HERESzchatt89 said

    Okay, then let's argue it on state financial grounds. He wants state funds to contribute to this project? If I lived in Kentucky, wouldn't want MY taxpayer money being used to fund this.

    I'm for job growth and employment, but this isn't the way to do it.


    Sorry, I am not here to argue, just to simply state my opinion.
    Obama bailed out banks that created this mess with billions upon billions of tax payers money...I am sure u didnt like that either
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    Dec 04, 2010 8:53 AM GMT
    22YrOldGuy said
    conscienti198...The people behind this theme park are the same ones who started the Creationism Museum--they have an agenda to dismantle evolutionary theory and replace it with biblical literalism.


    Honestly it doesnt even matter...this is not going to impede on anyone's way of life; its a theme park...if you dont believe in creationism, quite frankly dont go...

    Pennsylvanian schools won the right to teach evolution in school...I dont understand why people are so scared or angry over things with theological themes...

    Its not gonna impede on your lives, or ours for that matter, so dont worry about it, plus there are gay people of various faiths as well...


    It's not about impeding on one's way of life. It's about doing a disservice to our children and this country. Most in the US are already scientifically illiterate. To borrow from the quote..., "You have the right to your own opinions. You, however, do not have the right to make up facts."

    And no, PA schools did not win the right to teach anything--evolution was already being taught in PA schools until a number of scientifically illiterate school board members decided to alter the definition of science so that their own religious views could be used to proselytize high school students.

    I have no problem with "Things with theological themes" so long as those "things" stay out of the government and public schools and are not used to deny other people rights based on Bronze Age morality. Furthermore, so long as those "things" are not disguised as science when there is nothing scientific about them.

    And whether you are religious or not makes no difference. Both theists and atheists alike are concerned by stuff like this. This issue is not about theists vs. atheists... its about science vs. psuedo-science and biblical inerrancy.

    Why are people edgey about such issues? Google the "Wedge Document" by The Discovery Institute. And check out the stats from a study done on the acceptance of evolutionary theory around the world:

    "For the study that produced the graph at right, adults were asked to respond to the statement: “Human beings, as we know them, developed from earlier species of animals”; the percentage of respondents who believed this to be true is marked in blue; those who believed it to be false, in red; and those who were not sure, in yellow."

    060810-evolution_big.jpg

    http://www.sciencemag.org/content/313/5788/765
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    Dec 04, 2010 8:55 AM GMT
    This seems to make some feel insecure?

    Many cities have more than one Museum too.
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    Dec 04, 2010 9:02 AM GMT
    I
    conscienti198... have no problem with "Things with theological themes" so long as those "things" stay out of the government and public schools and are not used to deny other people rights based on Bronze Age morality. Furthermore, so long as those "things" are not disguised as science when there is nothing scientific about them.

    And whether you are religious or not makes no difference. Both theists and atheists alike are concerned by stuff like this. This issuse is not about theists vs. atheists... its about science vs. psuedo-science and biblical inerrancy.

    Why are people edgey about such issues?


    I'm sorry...I dont understand how my response sounded edgy. Listen, if someone is taught creationism, and is taught evolutionism both, it is up to the individual person to make up their mind. I am personally neutral on the issue, I guess you could call it agnostic.

    Quite frankly, a religious theme park is not under government or school control. What? Are you afraid that if some atheist goes to the theme park, he will all of a sudden see the light of Jesus? You have to be kidding me! If so many Italians, Danish, English etc. believe in evolution as a fact, cool!!! However, as established atheists I am sure they wont swayed or even enticed to visit a creationist theme park...honestly I dont see what is there to be so worried about...
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    Dec 04, 2010 9:29 AM GMT
    22YrOldGuy saidI
    conscienti198... have no problem with "Things with theological themes" so long as those "things" stay out of the government and public schools and are not used to deny other people rights based on Bronze Age morality. Furthermore, so long as those "things" are not disguised as science when there is nothing scientific about them.

    And whether you are religious or not makes no difference. Both theists and atheists alike are concerned by stuff like this. This issuse is not about theists vs. atheists... its about science vs. psuedo-science and biblical inerrancy.

    Why are people edgey about such issues?


    I'm sorry...I dont understand how my response sounded edgy. Listen, if someone is taught creationism, and is taught evolutionism both, it is up to the individual person to make up their mind. I am personally neutral on the issue, I guess you could call it agnostic.

    Quite frankly, a religious theme park is not under government or school control. What? Are you afraid that if some atheist goes to the theme park, he will all of a sudden see the light of Jesus? You have to be kidding me! If so many Italians, Danish, English etc. believe in evolution as a fact, cool!!! However, as established atheists I am sure they wont swayed or even enticed to visit a creationist theme park...honestly I dont see what is there to be so worried about...


    hehe no... I meant people like scientists are edgy over stuff like this--your response didn't sound edgy at all. no worries icon_smile.gif

    Yes, teach both sides of the "debate" and allow *cough* kids to make up their own decision. Except, there is no debate in the scientific community over evolution (there are smaller debates over evolutionary mechanisms though but that's besides the point).

    So. To be fair to both sides of the debate, shall we include alchemy in chemistry? Geocentrisim and astrology in astonomy? Homeopathy in medicine? Neo-vitalism in biology? Afterall... we have to be fair.

    Kids are not suppose to be making up their own minds in high school--that should come later. They are suppose to be taught the basics of science and how to think critically and dialectically (the latter two being more important the the former). If creationists have scienctific evidence for their claims, why are they picking on high school students? Why don't creationists present their data to peer reviewed journals and the scientific community instead of backwards school boards and ignorrant children?

    Becuase, creationists lost their arguement a long time ago in the scientific community--creationism by definition is not a science... it can't be and never will be. So, as portreyed in the Wedge Document, they went after high school biology classes. And their biggest success yet could be convinig the public that there is some debate in the scientific community over evolution; thus, supporting the claim that kids should learn both sides.

    That sounds great and all--who wouldn't want to be fair? But this isn't about being fair... it's about protecting science and the future of sciencific innovation and discovery on US soil. We can't afford to dumb down our schools anymore.

    Again, this isn't directly about the theme park itself... but what it stands for and aims to brainwash our society into believing. Finally, do not set up a false dichotomy--plenty of theists support evolutionary theory... not just atheist or agnostics. For all we know evolution maybe occur by the hand of god... but that question is not for science to answer.
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    Dec 04, 2010 10:34 AM GMT
    22YrOldGuy saidI
    conscienti198... have no problem with "Things with theological themes" so long as those "things" stay out of the government and public schools and are not used to deny other people rights based on Bronze Age morality. Furthermore, so long as those "things" are not disguised as science when there is nothing scientific about them.

    And whether you are religious or not makes no difference. Both theists and atheists alike are concerned by stuff like this. This issuse is not about theists vs. atheists... its about science vs. psuedo-science and biblical inerrancy.

    Why are people edgey about such issues?


    I'm sorry...I dont understand how my response sounded edgy. Listen, if someone is taught creationism, and is taught evolutionism both, it is up to the individual person to make up their mind. I am personally neutral on the issue, I guess you could call it agnostic.

    Quite frankly, a religious theme park is not under government or school control. What? Are you afraid that if some atheist goes to the theme park, he will all of a sudden see the light of Jesus? You have to be kidding me! If so many Italians, Danish, English etc. believe in evolution as a fact, cool!!! However, as established atheists I am sure they wont swayed or even enticed to visit a creationist theme park...honestly I dont see what is there to be so worried about...


    Scientist don't believe in evolution.
    They understand how it work, study it, refine it, test it, criticizes the vision that some of their colleges have on it. It's a scientific field, completely unrelated to faith. It's the the name given to set of explanation about animal diversity which are compatible with what we can observe and experiment.
    Darwin book is nothing like 'I tell you what is evolution, trust me about it'.
    It's rather a very long and detailed account of tons and tons of informations about animal and vegetal life. Out of those observations some hypothesis are made, and analysed, criticized, compared with the theories of the time. It end up with what Darwin could DEDUCE, out of those observations and the level of science back then.
    It has been deeply completed and refined since, but the logical deductions he made out of what he knew are as logical and sound today as there where at the time.

    Religious people don't believe in creationism.
    There is a lot of religion. Even for Christians, the Roman catholic (1 billions people) church consider the scripture as allegory, and prefer to see the hand of god in the randomness nature of evolution.
    So, technically, it's not 'religious people', it's a MINORITY of Christian who believe the scriptures give a literal account of the start of the world.

    IT's not opposition between religious people and scientific community, it's just a sub group of Christian trying (with depressing success) to make people believe that when science contradict scriptures, science has to be wrong.


  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Dec 04, 2010 11:48 AM GMT
    I'm sorry...I dont understand how my response sounded edgy. Listen, if someone is taught creationism, and is taught evolutionism both, it is up to the individual person to make up their mind. I am personally neutral on the issue, I guess you could call it agnostic.

    Thing is

    You can't be agnostic about something that actually exists
    If you wanna believe in "Intelligent Design" an oxymoron if I ever heard one or creationism that's fine
    but you cannot discount evolution
    because it's not a theory any longer ....... it's a fact
    It's a fact that has been proven over and over again through the fossil record and in the field if cellular genetics and in the observation of the natural selection in the wild

    The building of this park isn't bad in itself
    It's the use of taxpayer money to fund it

    Try building a Hassidic jewish amusement park with taxpayer money and see how far you'll get
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    Dec 04, 2010 11:52 AM GMT

    GQjockTry building a Hassidic jewish amusement park with taxpayer money and see how far you'll get


    Or, as TigerTim suggested:
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/1259655What imagine a center dedicated to a moderate, tolerant version of Islam, and conveying American values like democracy, freedom and individual liberty to the Islamic world?!!??!

    What a manifestly DREADFUL IDEA!!!!! ;-)


    as opposed to this:

    I saidYou mean as opposed to a theme park dedicated to a fundamentalist, intolerant version of Christianity, conveying American values like antiscientism, American exceptionalism and antihistoricism to the Christian world?!?!

    What an excellent idea.
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    Dec 04, 2010 11:57 AM GMT
    Szchatt89 saidOkay, then let's argue it on state financial grounds. He wants state funds to contribute to this project? If I lived in Kentucky, wouldn't want MY taxpayer money being used to fund this.

    I'm for job growth and employment, but this isn't the way to do it.

    It's part of the Republican plan to reduce the size and involvement of government. You see, if the government puts taxpayer dollars into something useful like a Biblical theme park, instead of liberal boondoggles like health care, school lunch programs, investing in the infrastructure, teaching science instead of the Bible in schools, and other unnecessary & wasteful squandering of public resources, then God will love us more.

    Especially because we can take our children there and indoctrinate them in Christian fundamentalism, before they're too old to decide on their own whether they want to go there or not. Ya gotta get 'em while they're young, so do it the fun Disney theme park way, thanks to generous taxpayers who have nothing better to do with their money, after social service programs have been heartlessly slashed to create a nice surplus for worthy causes like this one.

    Then God will make us all rich and prosperous, shrink the government for us, reduce our taxes, and destroy our non-Christian enemies, especially the liberals. But first we have to invest in God if we want God to invest in us. Quite simple & logical, really.

    And remember, a government that helps its own people is always too big, while a government that helps God is never big enough.

    icon_biggrin.gif
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    Dec 04, 2010 3:49 PM GMT
    GQjock saidI'm sorry...I dont understand how my response sounded edgy. Listen, if someone is taught creationism, and is taught evolutionism both, it is up to the individual person to make up their mind. I am personally neutral on the issue, I guess you could call it agnostic.

    Thing is

    You can't be agnostic about something that actually exists
    If you wanna believe in "Intelligent Design" an oxymoron if I ever heard one or creationism that's fine
    but you cannot discount evolution
    because it's not a theory any longer ....... it's a fact
    It's a fact that has been proven over and over again through the fossil record and in the field if cellular genetics and in the observation of the natural selection in the wild

    Try building a Hassidic jewish amusement park with taxpayer money and see how far you'll get


    If you attempted to read my posts you will see that I never discounted evolution...I simply just dont care! Quite frankly, I believe something up there exists and I simply believe that Jesus existed as a human rather than a supernatural force. However, I never said that evolution couldnt be a factual matter...

    You have to understand that the idea of both creation (the thought of something intelligent making us such unique individuals quite interesting) but I am very open to the idea of evolution and its studies; I never discounted anything...

    Rather what I am saying is I dont understand why everyone makes such a big deal about theological issues, I say this once and I say it again. Athiests and their offspring who are raised atheist, will have no interest in going to a Theistic theme park...get it, they will go to 6 Flags Darien Lake. Atheist parents teach their children atheist thoughts just the same as Christian parents teaching their children Christian thoughts, what the problem...

    As long as religion is out of public schools, etc. its ok...and I am sure that there would be no uproar over an Evolutionary theme Park...there are more pressing issues in the gay community besides a Creation Theme Park.
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    Dec 04, 2010 4:03 PM GMT
    I wont go within 500 hundred miles of it. They wont get a dime from me.. I hope they (the thumper visitors) go broke giving all that money to em because god said so..

  • GQjock

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    Dec 04, 2010 4:16 PM GMT
    As long as religion is out of public schools, etc. its ok...

    But that's the entire point
    When it's funded by the taxpayers
    whether on a State or a Federal Level that opens the door to it being entered into the classroom and being sanctioned by the State
    another reason why we need separation of Church and State in this country
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    Dec 04, 2010 4:20 PM GMT
    Art_Deco, I looked at this for a stunned moment, then lol-ed.

    so, QFT!

    "And remember, a government that helps its own people is always too big, while a government that helps God is never big enough."


    -Doug

    This quote is a real keeper!
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    Dec 04, 2010 4:29 PM GMT
    i think the use of state funds for a religious-themed park isn't appropriate, but -

    an elected democrat in kentucky is extinct as an elected republican in california. maybe the guy wants to keep his job. can anyone relate to that?

    next point: don't gays expect tolerance? isn't that what the DADT and marriage equality fights are about? if they want to put a gay theme park in kentucky, or a mosque in new york, and the project has gone through the local government approval process, build it.

    voice your opinion by not going to the theme park, if you don't like it.
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    Dec 04, 2010 9:26 PM GMT
    onejock saidi think the use of state funds for a religious-themed park isn't appropriate, but -

    an elected democrat in kentucky is extinct as an elected republican in california. maybe the guy wants to keep his job. can anyone relate to that?

    next point: don't gays expect tolerance? isn't that what the DADT and marriage equality fights are about? if they want to put a gay theme park in kentucky, or a mosque in new york, and the project has gone through the local government approval process, build it.

    voice your opinion by not going to the theme park, if you don't like it.


    But we have something called the Constitution... which kinda screws with your argument.

    This is why governemnt should avoid all interaction with religion--The establishment clause and the idea of a wall between Church and State is meant to protect the people from religion and religion from the government. Things would be much better if the government stayed out of the religion-endorsing business.

    This isn't about tolerance. It's about equality. It's about the unconstitutional actions of KY's government. Ex: The National Day of Prayer is unconstitutional and should be halted because of that reason... not kept in place to remain tolerant of th black and white views of evangelical Christians.
  • roadbikeRob

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    Dec 04, 2010 9:27 PM GMT
    onejock has some valid points and I agree with him 100% on this issue. We gays need to practice what we preach. If we want acceptance and tolerance for ourselves, than we should be willing to extend that exact same acceptance and tolerance for everyone else. I don't like the narrow-minded, bible thumping screwballs on the right but this is a free republic and everyone is entitled to their views regardless how offensive or stupid those particular views might be.
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    Dec 04, 2010 9:35 PM GMT
    22YrOldGuy said
    GQjock saidI'm sorry...I dont understand how my response sounded edgy. Listen, if someone is taught creationism, and is taught evolutionism both, it is up to the individual person to make up their mind. I am personally neutral on the issue, I guess you could call it agnostic.

    Thing is

    You can't be agnostic about something that actually exists
    If you wanna believe in "Intelligent Design" an oxymoron if I ever heard one or creationism that's fine
    but you cannot discount evolution
    because it's not a theory any longer ....... it's a fact
    It's a fact that has been proven over and over again through the fossil record and in the field if cellular genetics and in the observation of the natural selection in the wild

    Try building a Hassidic jewish amusement park with taxpayer money and see how far you'll get


    If you attempted to read my posts you will see that I never discounted evolution...I simply just dont care! Quite frankly, I believe something up there exists and I simply believe that Jesus existed as a human rather than a supernatural force. However, I never said that evolution couldnt be a factual matter...

    You have to understand that the idea of both creation (the thought of something intelligent making us such unique individuals quite interesting) but I am very open to the idea of evolution and its studies; I never discounted anything...

    Rather what I am saying is I dont understand why everyone makes such a big deal about theological issues, I say this once and I say it again. Athiests and their offspring who are raised atheist, will have no interest in going to a Theistic theme park...get it, they will go to 6 Flags Darien Lake. Atheist parents teach their children atheist thoughts just the same as Christian parents teaching their children Christian thoughts, what the problem...

    As long as religion is out of public schools, etc. its ok...and I am sure that there would be no uproar over an Evolutionary theme Park...there are more pressing issues in the gay community besides a Creation Theme Park.


    One of the missions of The Creation Museum is to empower people to step up in their communities and voice their concerns over the teaching of evolution in schools. And because our system of education is stupid, we elect politicans to write school cirriculium. Though responsible school boards seek the advice of professors, scholars, scientists, historians, researchers, etc., not all school boards do that. Case in point: Texas Board of Education seeking the advice of Christian apologist and psuedo-historian David Barton when writing new standards for history classes.

    The ignorrant citizens of this country wish to have their views respected and forced on our childern out of "fairness." Thankfully, they are been beaten back at almost evry turn.
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    Dec 04, 2010 9:36 PM GMT
    roadbikeRob saidonejock has some valid points and I agree with him 100% on this issue. We gays need to practice what we preach. If we want acceptance and tolerance for ourselves, than we should be willing to extend that exact same acceptance and tolerance for everyone else. I don't like the narrow-minded, bible thumping screwballs on the right but this is a free republic and everyone is entitled to their views regardless how offensive or stupid those particular views might be.


    No one is suggesting otherwise.

    You should read some other posts in this forum.