Arizona Cuts Transplant funding

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    Dec 03, 2010 8:48 AM GMT
    For anyone wondering, this is a prime example of a "self fulfilling prophecy". Conservatives hyped up death panels, blaming Obama as the cause knowing perfectly well that it was THEM backing a system that would enable these situations.

    And they still attempt to pin the blame on healthcare reform >sigh<.

    [url]http://gawker.com/5704883/only-rich-people-in-arizona-can-get-organ-transplants-now
    [/url]
    [url]http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/03/us/03transplant.html?src=me
    [/url]


  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Dec 03, 2010 11:11 AM GMT
    Well very typical of the republican modus operandi

    Say one thing ..... and then go right ahead and be the worst perpetrators of what you'd actually railed against in the first place

    Republican spending on the deficit anybody?
    icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Dec 03, 2010 2:30 PM GMT
    More of SB bullshit

    Here: covered in depth

    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/1243588/
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    Dec 03, 2010 2:32 PM GMT
    I said this on that topic:

    Here's another idea from another REAL conservative (and not the dead hearted phonies on here who claim they are).



    "State Rep. John Kavanagh, a member of the House Appropriations Committee in the Arizona Legislature, has looked at the new information.

    "It's a terrible situation," Kavanagh says, "but we don't want anybody to die because of a faulty data set. So if we made a mistake, we're [going to] reinstate those that require it."

    Kavanagh is promising a hearing when the Arizona Legislature convenes in January. He says the state can cut the money somewhere else."

    -courtesy of Oregon Public Broadcasting "


    -Doug
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    Dec 03, 2010 4:07 PM GMT
    The family should be asking for donations to help them out and Olbermann should be helping them raise the money, what is with blaming the government? The money all comes from citizens paying taxes anyway and there isn't enough money for the budget. Also, if there are no hearts available why is the government to blame? I don't get it.
  • rnch

    Posts: 11524

    Dec 03, 2010 4:08 PM GMT
    meninlove said More of SB bullshit

    Here: covered in depth

    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/1243588/


    Quoted For TRUTH
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    Dec 03, 2010 4:28 PM GMT
    mocktwinkie saidThe family should be asking for donations to help them out and Olbermann should be helping them raise the money, what is with blaming the government? The money all comes from citizens paying taxes anyway and there isn't enough money for the budget. Also, if there are no hearts available why is the government to blame? I don't get it.


    These families are asking for donations, and Olbermann has helped them raise quite a bit of money, as he did for community health centers and many other issues of the day. But, if - as you say - the citizens can't afford to pay more taxes, how do they have money to donate?

    I'm also curious as to what those libertarians that you love so much have done to help these families. Is there a Tea Party fundraiser happening for these families?

    And your non-sequitur about the lack of hearts is silly. If that was the problem, no one would be complaining about this. The organs are available but the callousness of Brewer who would rather build prisons for her corporate donors to make profits from than save lives is what is causing the problem.
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    Dec 03, 2010 5:25 PM GMT
    Mock, get over yourself and this "donations" bullshit, private donations are not going t fucking help if the person is dead before they raise enough money.

    SB you fail at life, per usual. This has nothing to do with immigration, this has everything with a culture war against the sick and poor.

    This story hits incredibly close to home and I can say being listed as inactive on a list for any number of time can be devastating, the one guy is next in fucking line so if someone is a match guess what, it either goes to someone else or it goes to no one at all. The other guy had someone donate a liver specifically to him and because of the AZ government he couldn't even get it.
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    Dec 03, 2010 5:38 PM GMT
    Christian73 said
    mocktwinkie saidThe family should be asking for donations to help them out and Olbermann should be helping them raise the money, what is with blaming the government? The money all comes from citizens paying taxes anyway and there isn't enough money for the budget. Also, if there are no hearts available why is the government to blame? I don't get it.


    These families are asking for donations, and Olbermann has helped them raise quite a bit of money, as he did for community health centers and many other issues of the day. But, if - as you say - the citizens can't afford to pay more taxes, how do they have money to donate?

    I'm also curious as to what those libertarians that you love so much have done to help these families. Is there a Tea Party fundraiser happening for these families?

    And your non-sequitur about the lack of hearts is silly. If that was the problem, no one would be complaining about this. The organs are available but the callousness of Brewer who would rather build prisons for her corporate donors to make profits from than save lives is what is causing the problem.


    Who said the citizens can't afford to pay more taxes? That's not the issue at all. The point is that the government should have nothing to do with this. If you have an issue with Brewer being hypocritical then that is a separate matter altogether.
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    Dec 03, 2010 5:39 PM GMT
    O.o
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    Dec 03, 2010 5:44 PM GMT
    mocktwinkie said

    Who said the citizens can't afford to pay more taxes?
    Every republican/teabagger in an elected office nationwide. and every republican and teabagger NOT in elected office nationwide.

    Nuff people who 'said' it for ya now?
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    Dec 03, 2010 5:46 PM GMT
    TropicalMark said
    mocktwinkie said

    Who said the citizens can't afford to pay more taxes?
    Every republican/teabagger in an elected office nationwide. and every republican and teabagger NOT in elected office nationwide.

    Nuff people who 'said' it for ya now?


    The point is that they SHOULDN'T pay more taxes -- besides, it's destructive to a society that runs on the concept of free enterprise and wanting nicer things (greed), because it translates into jobs and a thriving economy.

    Why don't I just show up with a band of militia and take your hard earned money and give it to the poor and call it "just"? I could even take your television and god forbid, computer, and give it to some soul more needy than yourself. After all, it's the RIGHT thing to do!
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    Dec 03, 2010 5:49 PM GMT
    On government and health care this week in NEJMIn speculating about the possible rise of despotism in a democracy, de Tocqueville painted a grim picture of individualism taken to the extreme. He wrote, “Each . . . living apart, was a stranger to all the rest — his children and private friends constitute to him the whole of mankind; as for the rest of his fellow citizens, he is close to them, but he sees them not; he exists but in himself and for himself alone.”
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    Dec 03, 2010 6:06 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    DoomsDayAlpaca saidMock, get over yourself and this "donations" bullshit, private donations are not going t fucking help if the person is dead before they raise enough money.


    Uh.... how about Warren Buffett or Bill Gates? I hear they have a little leftover pocket change that they are willing to hand over to the government via higher tax rates. Since it's questionable whether tax rates will be going up, I'm sure they will be more than happy to give it to anyone in this particular situation... they just need to be asked.icon_wink.gif



    DoomsDayAlpaca saidSB you fail at life, per usual. This has nothing to do with immigration, this has everything with a culture war against the sick and poor.


    Yeah I know. I generate wealth and employ people... definitely a failure when compared to you.

    How many people do you employ?

    How much revenue do you generate for the company you work for?



    Taxes on corporations and the rich need to GO UP.

    And as always it's the song same and dance with you, money.
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    Dec 03, 2010 6:07 PM GMT
    mocktwinkie said
    TropicalMark said
    mocktwinkie said

    Who said the citizens can't afford to pay more taxes?
    Every republican/teabagger in an elected office nationwide. and every republican and teabagger NOT in elected office nationwide.

    Nuff people who 'said' it for ya now?


    The point is that they SHOULDN'T pay more taxes -- besides, it's destructive to a society that runs on the concept of free enterprise and wanting nicer things (greed), because it translates into jobs and a thriving economy.

    Why don't I just show up with a band of militia and take your hard earned money and give it to the poor and call it "just"? I could even take your television and god forbid, computer, and give it to some soul more needy than yourself. After all, it's the RIGHT thing to do!


    Higher taxes on the very rich is destructive?

    More destructive than just leaving people to die? I thought you hated death panels?
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    Dec 03, 2010 6:12 PM GMT
    DoomsDayAlpaca said
    mocktwinkie said
    TropicalMark said
    mocktwinkie said

    Who said the citizens can't afford to pay more taxes?
    Every republican/teabagger in an elected office nationwide. and every republican and teabagger NOT in elected office nationwide.

    Nuff people who 'said' it for ya now?


    The point is that they SHOULDN'T pay more taxes -- besides, it's destructive to a society that runs on the concept of free enterprise and wanting nicer things (greed), because it translates into jobs and a thriving economy.

    Why don't I just show up with a band of militia and take your hard earned money and give it to the poor and call it "just"? I could even take your television and god forbid, computer, and give it to some soul more needy than yourself. After all, it's the RIGHT thing to do!


    Higher taxes on the very rich is destructive?

    More destructive than just leaving people to die? I thought you hated death panels?


    Because it doesn't just affect the "very rich", it affects the small business and ultimately the working classes, it affects the factors that are key in forming the notions and incentives upon which capitalism thrives -- that you can keep money you've worked hard for. And you work hard so you can have nicer things and enjoy life.

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    Dec 03, 2010 6:14 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    DoomsDayAlpaca said
    Taxes on corporations and the rich ended to GO UP.

    And as always it's the song same and dance with you, money.





    "Taxes on corporations and the rich ended to GO UP"

    What are you trying to say? This makes no sense.



    "And as always it's the song same and dance with you, money"

    Well the things you are asking for require money to accomplish!

    And I'll ask you again:

    How many people do you employ?

    How much revenue do you generate for the company you work for?



    I don't work for any "company" I freelance.

    But why is it only the rich should be able to get healthcare? Why are you so ok with letting people die?
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    Dec 03, 2010 6:17 PM GMT
    DoomsDayAlpaca said
    southbeach1500 said
    DoomsDayAlpaca said
    Taxes on corporations and the rich ended to GO UP.

    And as always it's the song same and dance with you, money.





    "Taxes on corporations and the rich ended to GO UP"

    What are you trying to say? This makes no sense.



    "And as always it's the song same and dance with you, money"

    Well the things you are asking for require money to accomplish!

    And I'll ask you again:

    How many people do you employ?

    How much revenue do you generate for the company you work for?



    I don't work for any "company" I freelance.

    But why is it only the rich should be able to get healthcare? Why are you so ok with letting people die?


    Someone said that ONLY the "rich" should get healthcare?
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    Dec 03, 2010 6:19 PM GMT
    mocktwinkie said
    DoomsDayAlpaca said
    mocktwinkie said
    TropicalMark said
    mocktwinkie said

    Who said the citizens can't afford to pay more taxes?
    Every republican/teabagger in an elected office nationwide. and every republican and teabagger NOT in elected office nationwide.

    Nuff people who 'said' it for ya now?


    The point is that they SHOULDN'T pay more taxes -- besides, it's destructive to a society that runs on the concept of free enterprise and wanting nicer things (greed), because it translates into jobs and a thriving economy.

    Why don't I just show up with a band of militia and take your hard earned money and give it to the poor and call it "just"? I could even take your television and god forbid, computer, and give it to some soul more needy than yourself. After all, it's the RIGHT thing to do!


    Higher taxes on the very rich is destructive?

    More destructive than just leaving people to die? I thought you hated death panels?


    Because it doesn't just affect the "very rich", it affects the small business and ultimately the working classes, it affects the factors that are key in forming the notions and incentives upon which capitalism thrives -- that you can keep money you've worked hard for.



    Oh god please, the very rich don't work hard. In this country wealth creates it's own wealth. All you have to do is hire someone on wall street to do it for you.

    You should also look what count's as a small business, I'll even help http://tinyurl.com/25y5gvn. Really you guys need to stop with that bullshit.

    I'm glad however that you think these "incentives" trump human life and human suffering. You're a really classy fucking guy.
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    Dec 03, 2010 6:22 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    DoomsDayAlpaca said
    I don't work for any "company" I freelance.


    Self employed? Why aren't you hiring anyone else? Stop hoarding your earnings. Invest them in expanding your "freelance" business.


    DoomsDayAlpaca said
    But why is it only the rich should be able to get healthcare? Why are you so ok with letting people die?


    Huh? You get healthcare thanks to me and the rest of us who pay Federal income tax... and you certainly aren't rich.


    Ummm I'm 22 years old and simply and have a impressive portfolio for someone in my situation.

    I don't need to hire anyone else because I'm not a business, if someone wan'ts to hire a second photographer that's fine by me.

    And I get healthcare because my kidneys don't work, but hey...I guess I should just refuse treatment for my illness and just die right?
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    Dec 03, 2010 6:23 PM GMT
    mocktwinkie said
    DoomsDayAlpaca said
    southbeach1500 said
    DoomsDayAlpaca said
    Taxes on corporations and the rich ended to GO UP.

    And as always it's the song same and dance with you, money.





    "Taxes on corporations and the rich ended to GO UP"

    What are you trying to say? This makes no sense.



    "And as always it's the song same and dance with you, money"

    Well the things you are asking for require money to accomplish!

    And I'll ask you again:

    How many people do you employ?

    How much revenue do you generate for the company you work for?



    I don't work for any "company" I freelance.

    But why is it only the rich should be able to get healthcare? Why are you so ok with letting people die?


    Someone said that ONLY the "rich" should get healthcare?


    Actions speak louder than words, or is that just another thing you fail to understand?
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    Dec 03, 2010 6:24 PM GMT
    DoomsDayAlpaca said
    mocktwinkie said
    DoomsDayAlpaca said
    mocktwinkie said
    TropicalMark said
    mocktwinkie said

    Who said the citizens can't afford to pay more taxes?
    Every republican/teabagger in an elected office nationwide. and every republican and teabagger NOT in elected office nationwide.

    Nuff people who 'said' it for ya now?


    The point is that they SHOULDN'T pay more taxes -- besides, it's destructive to a society that runs on the concept of free enterprise and wanting nicer things (greed), because it translates into jobs and a thriving economy.

    Why don't I just show up with a band of militia and take your hard earned money and give it to the poor and call it "just"? I could even take your television and god forbid, computer, and give it to some soul more needy than yourself. After all, it's the RIGHT thing to do!


    Higher taxes on the very rich is destructive?

    More destructive than just leaving people to die? I thought you hated death panels?


    Because it doesn't just affect the "very rich", it affects the small business and ultimately the working classes, it affects the factors that are key in forming the notions and incentives upon which capitalism thrives -- that you can keep money you've worked hard for.



    Oh god please, the very rich don't work hard. In this country wealth creates it's own wealth. All you have to do is hire someone on wall street to do it for you.

    You should also look what count's as a small business, I'll even help http://tinyurl.com/25y5gvn. Really you guys need to stop with that bullshit.

    I'm glad however that you think these "incentives" trump human life and human suffering. You're a really classy fucking guy.


    The very rich got there because either they or one of their ancestors worked very hard or were very innovative (part of the incentive of capitalism is to give your children a better life than you had). Do you honestly believe that all "rich" people in this country come from old money, live in New Canaan Connecticut and are sitting on hedge funds and trust funds?

    But since you're so interested in human life and human suffering, answer me this: Why do you think that only the "poor" people in western developed countries should be able to get healthcare?
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    Dec 03, 2010 6:28 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    DoomsDayAlpaca saidAnd I get healthcare because my kidneys don't work, but hey...I guess I should just refuse treatment for my illness and just die right?


    Yeah... but you wrote just a few minutes ago:

    "But why is it only the rich should be able to get healthcare? "

    So, if you're getting healthcare, according to you, you are one of the hated rich. Therefore, you must be, to use a favorite term of the liberals on here, self-loathing.





    DoomsDayAlpaca saidUmmm I'm 22 years old and simply and have a impressive portfolio for someone in my situation.


    So it's your choice to remain "needy" which is great... just don't expect me to pay for things you "need" or "want" and can't afford because of your own economic choice.



    If I lived in Arizona I would be getting a death sentence, it's as simple as that.

    And how is it my "choice" exactly? I found an innovative way to remain productive in a bad economy with limited availability due to medical reasons.
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    Dec 03, 2010 6:30 PM GMT
    mocktwinkie said
    DoomsDayAlpaca said
    mocktwinkie said
    DoomsDayAlpaca said
    mocktwinkie said
    TropicalMark said
    mocktwinkie said

    Who said the citizens can't afford to pay more taxes?
    Every republican/teabagger in an elected office nationwide. and every republican and teabagger NOT in elected office nationwide.

    Nuff people who 'said' it for ya now?


    The point is that they SHOULDN'T pay more taxes -- besides, it's destructive to a society that runs on the concept of free enterprise and wanting nicer things (greed), because it translates into jobs and a thriving economy.

    Why don't I just show up with a band of militia and take your hard earned money and give it to the poor and call it "just"? I could even take your television and god forbid, computer, and give it to some soul more needy than yourself. After all, it's the RIGHT thing to do!


    Higher taxes on the very rich is destructive?

    More destructive than just leaving people to die? I thought you hated death panels?


    Because it doesn't just affect the "very rich", it affects the small business and ultimately the working classes, it affects the factors that are key in forming the notions and incentives upon which capitalism thrives -- that you can keep money you've worked hard for.



    Oh god please, the very rich don't work hard. In this country wealth creates it's own wealth. All you have to do is hire someone on wall street to do it for you.

    You should also look what count's as a small business, I'll even help http://tinyurl.com/25y5gvn. Really you guys need to stop with that bullshit.

    I'm glad however that you think these "incentives" trump human life and human suffering. You're a really classy fucking guy.


    The very rich got there because either they or one of their ancestors worked very hard or were very innovative (part of the incentive of capitalism is to give your children a better life than you had). Do you honestly believe that all "rich" people in this country come from old money, live in New Canaan Connecticut and are sitting on hedge funds and trust funds?

    But since you're so interested in human life and human suffering, answer me this: Why do you think that only the "poor" people in western developed countries should be able to get healthcare?


    You some how leave out all the people who get there through ruthlessness, callousness, and luck. You ever see how walmart makes their money?

    You almost make it seem like if you aren't rich it's your own fault.
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    Dec 03, 2010 6:30 PM GMT
    mocktwinkie said
    TropicalMark said
    mocktwinkie said

    Who said the citizens can't afford to pay more taxes?
    Every republican/teabagger in an elected office nationwide. and every republican and teabagger NOT in elected office nationwide.

    Nuff people who 'said' it for ya now?


    The point is that they SHOULDN'T pay more taxes -- besides, it's destructive to a society that runs on the concept of free enterprise and wanting nicer things (greed), because it translates into jobs and a thriving economy.

    Why don't I just show up with a band of militia and take your hard earned money and give it to the poor and call it "just"? I could even take your television and god forbid, computer, and give it to some soul more needy than yourself. After all, it's the RIGHT thing to do!


    Untrue. The periods of greatest economic expansion in this country were when the highest effective tax rate was between 70-90%.

    The most recent sustained economic expansion (under Clinton) had higher tax rates than we currently have.

    And during the period since the Bush tax cuts have been active we've had net zero job growth, and stunning accumulation of wealth for the top 2%.