Jealousy of straight guys

  • Ashpenaz

    Posts: 21

    Dec 06, 2010 8:07 PM GMT
    I've only begun the process of coming out in the last couple of years, after I faced a middle-age milestone. One of the biggest problems I have in coming out in middle age is the extreme jealousy I have of my straight friends who were able to explore their sexuality without shame or consequence when they were in their teens and 20s. When I was that age, and I was starting to awaken sexually, I felt nothing but pure shame and guilt about the fact I wanted to have sex with men. And this wasn't because I was in a repressive family--when I talked to my Mom, she wasn't thrilled, but she wasn't angry. She said, "Being gay is such a sad life." icon_sad.gif

    My best friend was gay. His way of being sexual was to go to Main Street, stand on the corner, and get into cars with older guys who drove by. I remember that we read passages from John Rechy's Numbers while getting drunk. We also listened to David Bowie and Lou Reed. This was fun, but terrifying, and I never wanted to be gay in that way, so I didn't do much. I did have a drunken night with an Air Force MP in his 20s who wanted to "experiment," but when I woke up, I was humiliated and nearly suicidal. I did eventually get into a repressive religion through which I did reparative therapy, but it wasn't the way I was brought up. I chose the religion, I'm sure, because it matched my self-hatred. I can't blame them.

    Anyhoo, when I hear my straight friends talk about their earlier sexual exploits, and how much fun they were, and, far from being shaming, they felt empowered and masculine--I get jealous! I quit even attempting to have sex at an age when they were coming to terms with themselves as men. And then I spent the next 30 years feeling noble about my celibacy when if fact I was simply being eaten away by my internalized homophobia.

    So, do other gays feel jealous of straight people? And how do those of us who come out in middle age make up for lost time? How can we have a sexual adolescence without becoming a pathetic old guy at the bar picking up "twinks" (or whatever they're called these days)? (And I don't want to go to bars--I'm a recovering alcoholic.)

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    Dec 06, 2010 9:38 PM GMT
    Ashpenaz saidI've only begun the process of coming out in the last couple of years, after I faced a middle-age milestone. One of the biggest problems I have in coming out in middle age is the extreme jealousy I have of my straight friends who were able to explore their sexuality without shame or consequence when they were in their teens and 20s. When I was that age, and I was starting to awaken sexually, I felt nothing but pure shame and guilt about the fact I wanted to have sex with men. And this wasn't because I was in a repressive family--when I talked to my Mom, she wasn't thrilled, but she wasn't angry. She said, "Being gay is such a sad life." icon_sad.gif
    My best friend was gay. His way of being sexual was to go to Main Street, stand on the corner, and get into cars with older guys who drove by. I remember that we read passages from John Rechy's Numbers while getting drunk. We also listened to David Bowie and Lou Reed. This was fun, but terrifying, and I never wanted to be gay in that way, so I didn't do much. I did have a drunken night with an Air Force MP in his 20s who wanted to "experiment," but when I woke up, I was humiliated and nearly suicidal. I did eventually get into a repressive religion through which I did reparative therapy, but it wasn't the way I was brought up. I chose the religion, I'm sure, because it matched my self-hatred. I can't blame them.
    Anyhoo, when I hear my straight friends talk about their earlier sexual exploits, and how much fun they were, and, far from being shaming, they felt empowered and masculine--I get jealous! I quit even attempting to have sex at an age when they were coming to terms with themselves as men. And then I spent the next 30 years feeling noble about my celibacy when if fact I was simply being eaten away by my internalized homophobia.
    So, do other gays feel jealous of straight people? And how do those of us who come out in middle age make up for lost time? How can we have a sexual adolescence without becoming a pathetic old guy at the bar picking up "twinks" (or whatever they're called these days)? (And I don't want to go to bars--I'm a recovering alcoholic.)


    I started a response to you, nearly finished and then it got deleted while I was doing edits. Clearly that was meant to be.
    Summary: Live life and enjoy it. Absorb the good vibes in life and ignore the homophobic teachings that have distorted society and us with it. Jealousy will only distract you from your real goals, hold you back, and distort your perspective and ruin future prospects. Enjoy life, be the man you are, and want to be! As a man of religion you must remember Commandment #10- "You shall not covet." Whether religious or secular all people probably believe in the same central force in life (whether they call it God or nature or the guiding force, ...). Don't fixate on the past. You were meant to live your life, enjoy it, and better the world. Do it! (BTW, if you dress like a Franciscan Friar you will stand out and be judged by others. Decide for yourself if you care or not.)
    Also as for going to bars- I'm not an alcoholic but only drink bottled water in bars. I stay coherent there and enjoy real conversations and real experiences with guys. No shame in drinking water! Lots of guys do.
  • Ashpenaz

    Posts: 21

    Dec 07, 2010 2:42 AM GMT
    I appreciate your response. I hope I can do that. The only thing holding me back is the sense of having such a late start. I wish I had gone through this exploring stage earlier, when I was, say, thinner--but I really didn't want to do the sorts of things which were going on in the gay community then. I'm glad that there are more options now.

    I'm pretty heteronormative. I'm not into wild sexual adventuring or alternative lifestyles. Ultimately, I'd like to end up in a traditional, stable, monogamous relationship (though I wouldn't mind sowing a few wild oats first). I hope there's still time to catch up to my straight friends! icon_cool.gif
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    Dec 07, 2010 3:05 AM GMT
    Life is what it is now. It is not what it was ten years ago or twenty years ago. It is exactly what it is now. You can sit and wish about ten or twenty years ago. But ten and twenty years ago only exist in your mind. Those old days only exist in your mind. Those old days have passed, like a ticking clock. If you live now, but spend your time wishing about 10 years ago, then you are wasting today. You can't change the past. It came, it happened, it moved on. Why waste anytime saying I could have and I should have?? Live in the present. What would you do now if you could that you did not do in the past? Fuck a teenager? Sleep around? Fucking do it. Fuck a teenager, sleep around, do all the things that you never did because you thought you couldn't. If that improves your life, cool.
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    Dec 07, 2010 3:08 AM GMT
    You can be jealous all you want, but you can't change the past. I've been out since age 21 and can tell you that you haven't missed much...except sex with some hot young guys who end up using you and taking advantage of you and breaking your heart and making your life miserable...then you'd still end up in your middle ages wondering what you're gonna do with the rest of your life. So really, the only thing you missed was sex.

    Looking forward, since you want to sow some wild oats before settling down, I agree with the non-drinking in the bar. A smaller bar would be ideal, especially if it's in your neighborhood. They tend to welcome newbies much more than large nightclubs, although nightclubs may be a better option for finding anonymous sex.

    Either way, I wish you the very best. icon_biggrin.gif

    PS. Being "heteronormative" is a plus as long as you respect those who aren't. Because sometimes ya never know...it might just be the fem guy who becomes your best friend and mentor into the world of gaydom.
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    Dec 07, 2010 3:12 AM GMT
    Not to sound callous but your whole post is laden with self-pity and a large number of "what-ifs".

    You're 50. Get counseling and get on with life. You didn't have the opportunity to be who you wanted to be... now you do. All of the discoveries and excitement your friends had in their 20's you now get to experience. Id say that's pretty awesome.

    Insecurities about physicality are held by most, the beauty of people is that there are always some who like every body type, height, hair colour etc. There will be many many men who want to get to know you.

    Maybe Art_Deco can advise you, he came out in his 40's, as have lots on here.


    PS - men lie about how many conquests they've had.
  • Ashpenaz

    Posts: 21

    Dec 07, 2010 4:05 AM GMT
    I fully own the self-pity! icon_confused.gif

    But I like the responses. I know that I have to get on with life. I'm looking forward to seeing what happens as I move forward without shame.
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    Dec 07, 2010 4:20 AM GMT
    Don't let your past shames stay with you after coming out. Don't look down on yourself for going after what you want. There are plenty of guys that like older men, and they won't pity you or see you as pathetic.

    I would second finding a counselor. It will help you get things off your mind without wanting to unload on the guys that you get interested in. The only things that will scare guys off is sharing too much self-pity up front.

    You are very lucky in a way. Many men before us have gone to their graves living in unresolved desperation. We live in a very fortunate time, and your story will help people understand that even more.
  • Hunter9

    Posts: 1039

    Dec 07, 2010 4:29 AM GMT
    While you may "regret" not having the sexual experiences that your straight counterparts may (or may not) have had, I can assure you that they, too, have regrets. Probably not the same ones, but you are not unique in these feelings. I think you're entitled to regret your past decisions without letting them overwhelm you or impact your life currently.
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    Dec 07, 2010 4:31 AM GMT
    A few notes:
    1)
    There is a huge variation of Gay types. Don't assume that all gay men are homogeneous in anything except that they are sexually attracted to other men.
    2)
    Why shame? (It should have nothing to do with being gay or coming to terms with it at this stage in your life.) Don't look for problems and life will be so much better. Be a good and decent person and you won't have anything to be ashamed about.
    N.B. regarding shame or fear- Some people sniff it out like hound dogs. The best thing is preventative- don't be ashamed or fearful. It's totally counterproductive and dangerous to anything good in life.
    3)
    You'll feel better and better about yourself as you break out of your shell. You'll probably lose whatever amount of weight you'll want to also as you'll understand your priorities in life.
    4)
    Take things at whatever pace you need to be comfortable in advancing.
    5)
    Good luck, appreciate, and enjoy (safely).
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    Dec 07, 2010 4:37 AM GMT
    No, I'm not jealous of straight people. In a way, I think they have fewer choices than we have.
  • bismark1993

    Posts: 26

    Dec 07, 2010 4:46 AM GMT
    I agree with all of the above responses and I can only add to them by sympathizing with your plight - although I may not reserve the right to do so since I'm almost 25 years younger. However, I can offer that I came out at 18 and can have actively tried to find a decent guy to date but have come up short ever since. It seems like a few random people are lucky in finding something so coveted while most of us are left solitary. Anyhow, yes you may have improved your odds of entering a relationship or simply exploring your sexuality through casual encounters had you come out decades ago but there is no absolute guarantee that you would have benefited in this way. As I've said, I myself have had no luck and have never really had a gratifying sexually experience with another guy; a few brief hookups here and there out of absolutely necessity were all that kept me sane during those times.

    I get frustrated with my straight friends who seemingly effortlessly enter into long term relationships year after year, some to eventually settle down with a big screen TV and regular sex (I'd settle for once a month if I had even this much waiting for me at home). I'm getting better at not being bitter though. Some of us just have it harder than others. I'm just going to continue doing what makes me happy and putting myself in places and positions where I stand a chance at meeting people. It can't hurt.
  • Saffron69

    Posts: 121

    Dec 07, 2010 6:45 AM GMT
    Every single one of us has experienced jealousy n envy towards striaght people, thats the natural part of of our inner homophobia that we all had/have. Lets face it straight people have it lot easier than we do (dat don't mean they have it easy). How easy was it to find a guy in high school? Or middle school for that matter? U r one luck guy if u found some in high school, dat was some lonely times for most of us. To be honest with u I think ur lucky starting now because U have n edge over most of us young guys who are just starting out... You're mature n U have a better sense of who U are n wat U want than younger guys, Most of guys dnt hav a clue wat kind of men we really are jus yet. Look you've made mistakes n ur learning from them, so dont wry bout ur straight friends they didn't deal wit wat U did so no real basis of comparison can be made with them.

    Being gay was so much worse back than for u guys than it is now. Im just happy U didn't do anything extreme like become a priest... not dat it'd bad to be a priest, it's just a lot of priests who are gay became priests to justify not marrying a woman instead of it being wat it is, a very slef-less calling, but God may hav saved them from worse fates.

    As to not being thin enough, are u forgetting wat site ur on, there so many health n nutrition plans around here dat extent ur life another 50yrs, not to mention Im sure U can find sum1 in ur area who can help u back in shape. U can also find a gym if ur worried about fallen off the wagon, a gym is probably a better place to find a guy 'cause lord knows gyms attract gay men like moths to flames lol
    . Another option is googling gay spots in ur location.

    You truely have an awsome head on ur shoulders n u are attractive so no worries, WHEN U get back into shape u ul look even better. I agree with therapy too it'll help cut out the bullshit we keep in us a lot faster than doin it alone. In fact I think all of us should go for counselling
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    Dec 07, 2010 7:30 AM GMT
    Ashpenaz said...how do those of us who come out in middle age make up for lost time? How can we have a sexual adolescence without becoming a pathetic old guy at the bar picking up "twinks" (or whatever they're called these days)? (And I don't want to go to bars--I'm a recovering alcoholic.)

    In my case I did what I always do -- I analyzed the situation, made a plan and carried it out. I came out of total denial at nearly 46. By "total" I mean that up to that time I didn't even recognize myself that I was gay, so there was nothing to hide in the closet or be guilty about. I simply thought I was straight, yet I also sensed something wasn't quite right.

    When I finally came out I did regret those "lost" years, the only regret I've had that's associated with my coming out. Otherwise, it's been the best years of my life ever since.

    I quickly realized that the gay scene is a young man's game, and that I was already going over the hill, at least 140 in gay years. Well, OK, can't turn back the clock, and those who try to pretend they're still kids look like fools. So that option was out, but I wasn't throwing in the towel.

    So I said I'll make a social life for myself comprised of gays 40 and over. I'll go to the places they do (as opposed to twink bars, for instance), do the things they do. And they really made great company & friends (still do), and I suddenly had a very full gay social schedule (still do), an active sex life (still do), I think largely because I concentrated on my interests & abilities carefully, didn't dilute myself by being unfocused and all over the place.

    Plus I had a 10-year plan, from 46 to 56, what I assumed would be my last "good" years before age took its inevitable toll. Based on family history I was confident I could predict my future, and that's exactly how it happened. But for those 10 years I made a determined effort to make up for "lost time," to condense my 30 lost years as a straight into 10 intense years as a gay, to enjoy and remember forever.

    My 40s were fun, but my 50s were fabulous. I was learning my gay trade in the 40s, and by 50 I was having the time of my life. The 50s were my golden age, and I don't see why they can't be yours, too.

    And BTW, some of that golden time was spent right there in Omaha, at The MAX and other gay downtown bars. I know you said that scene doesn't work for you, due to your past, but there must be a private gay scene there you can join.

    I always do both, because again, I'm still deliberately looking to do everything I can that's gay. I mistakenly spent most of my adult life as a straight -- a life that's now almost entirely gay is the counter, the balance, even the therapy, and, quite frankly, the reward. icon_biggrin.gif
  • Ashpenaz

    Posts: 21

    Dec 07, 2010 4:16 PM GMT
    I'm glad I posted because these are really helpful, encouraging answers.

    I don't feel my age, and I just don't think that's a factor among men in my age-range that I'm likely to have potential relationships with. I'm not interested in chasing after some long-lost youth. I think I'm pretty happy now to start where I am with the guys from my generation. OK, maybe a little younger. Or older--who knows? icon_smile.gif

    I'm also working on a diet and exercise plan which I might post about as I proceed.

    While there are parts of the gay community I don't feel I have much in common with, there are parts that I relate to. I'm starting with blogs like this, and maybe I'll find more "real people" I can share being gay with where I live.

    It's just nice to talk about it and get some feedback. Thanks!
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    Dec 07, 2010 4:24 PM GMT
    It's never too late to start. 50 is not old at all, so you got a whole future ahead of you. Get started on it and LIVE YOUR LIFE.

    And believe me, I'm not in the "slutty" group either that is so stereotypical of gay men, so don't think just because you're gay, you have to be like that.
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    Dec 07, 2010 4:29 PM GMT
    My previous posts didn't address the title of your thread "Jealousy of [= towards] straight guys."

    It's not as though you have to compete with a straight person for your sexual fulfillment. Neither side competes for the same rare commodity. There's room for everyone. An incorrect fit is the wrong fit/choice. It's a matter of adjusting your own dynamics to find what you think you want and then you'll search successfully. If you'll be happy for those who are successful, study their happiness and then you'll have a better idea of what it is that you actually want.
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    Dec 07, 2010 4:36 PM GMT
    luvitohateit saidIt's never too late to start. 50 is not old at all, so you got a whole future ahead of you. Get started on it and LIVE YOUR LIFE.
    And believe me, I'm not in the "slutty" group either that is so stereotypical of gay men, so don't think just because you're gay, you have to be like that.


    In addition, there's also the possibility of being serious and clean-cut most of the time, but still reserve schedule to break out for one's inner slut. There's a time and a place for everything. 'Even' straight people do the same thing.
  • rnch

    Posts: 11524

    Dec 07, 2010 4:41 PM GMT
    my str8 friends have expressed jealousy of me; realizing that gay men can "get lucky" quicker, easier and with less drama that most str8 guys can.

    icon_cool.gif



    to the OP: pls realize that most str8 guys lie thru their front teeth about the quality and quanity of their "gettin' some". icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Dec 07, 2010 5:00 PM GMT
    rnch saidmy str8 friends have expressed jealousy of me; realizing that gay men can "get lucky" quicker, easier and with less drama that most str8 guys can.[...]


    And like most coupled/married heteros, such partnered (closed relationshiped) gay men will find their partnership dissolved or in shambles for unfaithfulness.