Visa and Mastercard: KKK is A-OK, Wikileaks is Wiked

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    Dec 08, 2010 9:46 PM GMT
    Visa & MasterCard: KKK Is A-OK, But Wikileaks Is Wicked
    from the starvation-through-political-pressure dept
    Well, it looks like we can add Visa to the list of companies pressured into no longer working with Wikileaks, following a similar move by MasterCard. At least, unlike MasterCard, Visa isn't already claiming that Wikileaks was convicted of a crime. Instead, it's just said that it's suspended any work with Wikileaks "pending further investigation into the nature of its business and whether it contravenes Visa operating rules."

    As Charles Arthur points out, the Ku Klux Klan's website points you to a site that takes both MasterCard and Visa -- suggesting the pure arbitrariness of both credit card companies' decision here. It's a bad idea when firms start making decisions for political reasons. There are all sorts of companies out there that take credit cards to support objectionable (to many) activities. Is it really the credit card companies' job to pick and choose who they find objectionable to work with -- and if so, what basis does it use for saying "KKK is okay, but Wikileaks is not"?

    This reinforces the point we recently made about the role of corporate intermediaries in being able to aid governments in censorship, even in the absence of a trial or conviction. Either way, this is a really sad statement about both Visa and MasterCard and their willingness to cave to government pressure.

    Source: http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20101207/09264812164/visa-mastercard-kkk-is-a-ok-wikileaks-is-wicked.shtml
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    Dec 08, 2010 11:58 PM GMT
    Fountains said "pending further investigation into the nature of its business and whether it contravenes Visa operating rules."


    this is probably the most disturbing part of this. The KKK is somehow not a violation of Visa's operating rules, while Wikileaks is?
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    Dec 09, 2010 12:07 AM GMT
    Just saw on the news about "operation payback" wikileaks followers have flodded visa's site and is now out of order
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    Dec 09, 2010 1:18 AM GMT
    The KKK isn't in violation of any laws as far as I know. Very few like or support them (well duh), but freedom of speech includes unpopular speech. Wikileaks' founder is on trial for (questionable) "crimes" and thus the companies want to distance themselves from criminal activity, at least for now.
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    Dec 09, 2010 1:23 AM GMT
    FearTheFall saidThe KKK isn't in violation of any laws as far as I know. Very few like or support them (well duh), but freedom of speech includes unpopular speech. Wikileaks' founder is on trial for (questionable) "crimes" and thus the companies want to distance themselves from criminal activity, at least for now.


    Sure, that's how it will be explained.

    Everybody knows that the real reason it that the KKK isn't a nuisance to the US government, and Wikileaks is.

    That's how it always works, all the time.

    Doesn't matter whether it's Wikileaks vs KKK or Pinochet vs Saddam.

    It's always the same fucking thing.
  • DCEric

    Posts: 3713

    Dec 09, 2010 2:34 AM GMT
    News Flash: Life isn't fair.
    Also, This Just In: If you want to play rough with the big boys, you are going to get hurt.
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    Dec 09, 2010 2:53 AM GMT
    DCEric saidNews Flash: Life isn't fair.
    Also, This Just In: If you want to play rough with the big boys, you are going to get hurt.

    So true. The KKK is not trying to damage the US, last I checked.

    And about WikiLeaks folks getting hurt, the US plays nice. If Mr. Julian targeted some other countries and they got hold of him, they wouldn't be spending time trying to determine if he violated any laws.
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    Dec 09, 2010 2:59 AM GMT
    They also attacked Sarah Palin's website which I think is hilarious. I think they did that just for the hell of it. They should go after the Kate Plus 8 website next, Kate Gosselin is annoying.
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    Dec 09, 2010 4:11 AM GMT
    Wikileaks is kind of retarded lately. It's not really opening up anything bad the U.S. is doing. It's more or less exposing OTHER countries of their flaws.
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    Dec 09, 2010 4:12 AM GMT
    DCEric saidNews Flash: Life isn't fair.
    Also, This Just In: If you want to play rough with the big boys, you are going to get hurt.


    News Flash: Congratulations that's the dumbest proverb in this thread. And it didn't validate any side of the argument. Stop thinking like a fortune cookie.
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    Dec 09, 2010 4:30 AM GMT
    The episode was among a string of disclosures that left the Obama White House administration struggling to mend diplomatic fences around the world.

    Something to be said for freedon of information.
  • Webster666

    Posts: 9217

    Dec 09, 2010 5:32 AM GMT
    FearTheFall saidThe KKK isn't in violation of any laws as far as I know. Very few like or support them (well duh), but freedom of speech includes unpopular speech. Wikileaks' founder is on trial for (questionable) "crimes" and thus the companies want to distance themselves from criminal activity, at least for now.




    Some "hate speech" is not protected by the First Amendment.

    Nothing Assange has leaked, so far, has been anything damaging. It's been classified as being "Secret," not "Top Secret." But, who knows how far he would be willing to go.

    Visa, Mastercard, etc., are no match for the computer hackers who can easily crash their sites.

    I agree that Assange's alleged "sex crimes" are highly suspect.
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    Dec 09, 2010 5:38 AM GMT
    i'm very interested in the latest cable that came out about Shell corporation infiltrating the Nigerian government.
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    Dec 09, 2010 5:48 AM GMT
    socalfitness said
    DCEric saidNews Flash: Life isn't fair.
    Also, This Just In: If you want to play rough with the big boys, you are going to get hurt.

    So true. The KKK is not trying to damage the US, last I checked.


    No, they're just trying to "damage" black people.
    You have strange definitions of "damage."

    But then, this absurd perspective on the KKK as an organization which "helps" America explains your position on Assange as a "threat" to America.

    So thanks, because now we can see how much of an idiot you truly are.
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    Dec 09, 2010 5:49 AM GMT
    PhxNativ271828 saidi'm very interested in the latest cable that came out about Shell corporation infiltrating the Nigerian government.


    http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/dec/08/wikileaks-cables-shell-nigeria-spying
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    Dec 09, 2010 6:03 AM GMT
    MeOhMy said
    PhxNativ271828 saidi'm very interested in the latest cable that came out about Shell corporation infiltrating the Nigerian government.


    http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/dec/08/wikileaks-cables-shell-nigeria-spying


    Did somebody say shell? They have no credit with us in Dutch south america since buidling refineries, dumping toxic waste illegally, and then bailing once the profits started going down, leaving us with an old and dirty refinery and mess to clean up, dont trust them at all...

    They (Shell) were doin this whole thing on BBC news honouring companies that have ideas for sustainable business in the developing world.. it was held in Amsterdam and several really great small businesses were shown, and large sums of money donated to these businesses... but I am too suspicious of them to think any more of it than a publicity stunt
  • Bustthewave

    Posts: 98

    Dec 09, 2010 6:10 AM GMT
    Tazo995 said
    FearTheFall saidThe KKK isn't in violation of any laws as far as I know. Very few like or support them (well duh), but freedom of speech includes unpopular speech. Wikileaks' founder is on trial for (questionable) "crimes" and thus the companies want to distance themselves from criminal activity, at least for now.


    Sure, that's how it will be explained.

    Everybody knows that the real reason it that the KKK isn't a nuisance to the US government, and Wikileaks is.

    That's how it always works, all the time.

    Doesn't matter whether it's Wikileaks vs KKK or Pinochet vs Saddam.

    It's always the same fucking thing.


    From what I understand, the difference here is that wikileaks really might be in violation of US laws according to this article - http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/7459545-washington-says-wikileaks-would-be-violating-us-law

    where this is apparently the reason - "If any of the materials you intend to publish were provided by officials or any intermediary without proper authorization, they were provided in violation of U.S. law and without considering the serious consequences of this action,"

    I think the KKK and the wikileaks situation are like comparing apples to oranges. The KKK, though I don't support their beliefs, I strongly support their right to exist based on freedom of speach, where the theory is good speach will overpower bad. Wikileaks on the other hand very well may be violating U.S. law by unlawfuly obtaining doccuments.

    If the issue were ethical, than visa and mastercard would have explaining to do, but the issue is legal. So any comparison here between this and the KKK, I think, doesn't quite work.
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    Dec 09, 2010 6:16 AM GMT
    JAKEBENSON saidWikileaks is kind of retarded lately. It's not really opening up anything bad the U.S. is doing. It's more or less exposing OTHER countries of their flaws.


    I think you need to re-read what's been going on and this time......put two full bags in the coffee machine.

    First of all in any Democratic government, transparency is important because not only it is indicative that the laws are of the people and for the people but also that the government exists to serve the people NOT politicians with a hidden agenda.

    We, our government should have known better than to order our diplomats to spy on members of the UN, hence the 'embarassment' as some countries now are reluctant to engage in further diplomatic talks.

    I for one applaud what Mr. Assange has done not only because he helped expose our government's dirty laundry but because in the process, he created a snowball effect whereby our own government had the audacity to accuse him of espionage when he's an Australian citizen by birth. Go Figure!

    Even more bizarre are the accusations by two women of rape, molestation, consensual sex without a condom and who the hell knows what else these frumps can think of after discovering of each other's involvement with Julian.

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    Dec 09, 2010 6:23 AM GMT
    amar_m said
    MeOhMy said
    PhxNativ271828 saidi'm very interested in the latest cable that came out about Shell corporation infiltrating the Nigerian government.


    http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/dec/08/wikileaks-cables-shell-nigeria-spying


    Did somebody say shell? They have no credit with us in Dutch south america since buidling refineries, dumping toxic waste illegally, and then bailing once the profits started going down, leaving us with an old and dirty refinery and mess to clean up, dont trust them at all...

    They (Shell) were doin this whole thing on BBC news honouring companies that have ideas for sustainable business in the developing world.. it was held in Amsterdam and several really great small businesses were shown, and large sums of money donated to these businesses... but I am too suspicious of them to think any more of it than a publicity stunt


    Well Shell, along with BP, actually fund and run (through cross-leadership and board membership) much of the world's environmental organizations, so no wonder they get the damned awards. Just check out the history of the World Wildlife Fund. Founded by a eugenicist, Julian Huxley (President of the British Eugenics Society), it's first president was Prince Bernhard of the Netherlands, a former Nazi, who was married to the Dutch Queen, herself one of the principle shareholders in Shell (another being Queen Elizabeth). The second international president was Queen Elizabeth's husband, Prince Philip. Then there was, down the line, a man named John Loudon, who was, while president of the WWF, also CEO of Royal Dutch Shell.

    Also, in the 1990s, Shell was responsible for having the Nigerian government hang Ken Saro-Wiwa and eight other Ogoni peace activists opposing Shell's destruction of the Niger Delta's environment, as well as Shell's hiring private armies to kill thousands of people and destroy over 20 villages.

    Shell is a whole lot of evil. I'm glad they are being exposed.
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    Dec 09, 2010 6:30 AM GMT
    MeOhMy said
    amar_m said
    MeOhMy said
    PhxNativ271828 saidi'm very interested in the latest cable that came out about Shell corporation infiltrating the Nigerian government.


    http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/dec/08/wikileaks-cables-shell-nigeria-spying


    Did somebody say shell? They have no credit with us in Dutch south america since buidling refineries, dumping toxic waste illegally, and then bailing once the profits started going down, leaving us with an old and dirty refinery and mess to clean up, dont trust them at all...

    They (Shell) were doin this whole thing on BBC news honouring companies that have ideas for sustainable business in the developing world.. it was held in Amsterdam and several really great small businesses were shown, and large sums of money donated to these businesses... but I am too suspicious of them to think any more of it than a publicity stunt


    Well Shell, along with BP, actually fund and run (through cross-leadership and board membership) much of the world's environmental organizations, so no wonder they get the damned awards. Just check out the history of the World Wildlife Fund. Founded by a eugenicist, Julian Huxley (President of the British Eugenics Society), it's first president was Prince Bernhard of the Netherlands, a former Nazi, who was married to the Dutch Queen, herself one of the principle shareholders in Shell (another being Queen Elizabeth). The second international president was Queen Elizabeth's husband, Prince Philip. Then there was, down the line, a man named John Loudon, who was, while president of the WWF, also CEO of Royal Dutch Shell.

    Also, in the 1990s, Shell was responsible for having the Nigerian government hang Ken Saro-Wiwa and eight other Ogoni peace activists opposing Shell's destruction of the Niger Delta's environment, as well as Shell's hiring private armies to kill thousands of people and destroy over 20 villages.

    Shell is a whole lot of evil. I'm glad they are being exposed.


    O yeah, i had seen some of that stuff in Nigeria on TV, but they didnt name the company... so it was Shell!!! Why am I entirely not surprised icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Dec 09, 2010 6:41 AM GMT
    MeOhMy said it's first president was Prince Bernhard of the Netherlands, a former Nazi, who was married to the Dutch Queen,


    Intresting you mention that, the history there is of great social significance in the netherlands and here, who opposed the marriage of the queen and prince bernhard .. they hated the prince for being german and accused him of being a nazi, which he denied all his life.. the dutch have been anti-german and anti-nazi since WWII in which germany launched its campaign for world domination by first conquering the netherlands (in fact, Shell's refineries in Dutch South America, Curacao and Aruba, remainig independent, became the sole refineries to supply oil to the US and its allies for the entire WWII.... due to the Russian's control of Eastern oil.. the Americans set up camp here to protect the Allies' oil supply... the neigborhood still exists and is still called in the local lingo "Amerikanenkamp")... The Dutch queen at the time is the most popular queen the kingdom ever saw (queen juliana) and her birthday is still celebrated yearly as Queen's day, which due to its name has become a major touristic gay event in Amsterdam... believe it or not..

    Or just ask Tazo icon_razz.gif
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    Dec 09, 2010 6:47 AM GMT
    Are we really surprised? Here's the Cliffs Notes of what went down..

    Government: Stop providing services to Wikileaks.
    Visa/Mastercard/Amazon: Why? They're not doing anything wrong.
    Government: Cuz we say so. If not, we can bring your business down. How about an audit to start with?
    Visa/Mastercard/Amazon: Okay. Done.
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    Dec 09, 2010 7:37 AM GMT
    Also One senior US politision called for Wikileaks to be classified as a terrorist organisation. Congressman Peter King incoming chairman of the House Homeland Security committee said the leaks had put "American lives at risk all over the world"

    he said " This was the worse even than a physical attack on Americans, it's worse than a military attack."

    Is he a drama queen or what?
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    Dec 09, 2010 9:38 AM GMT
    Hermes63 said... our own government had the audacity to accuse him of espionage when he's an Australian citizen by birth. Go Figure!

    Are you confusing espionage with treason? Being an Australian citizen does not preclude one from being charged with espionage. Also, he has not yet been charged by any crime by the US, so your other statement is also incorrect.
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    Dec 09, 2010 9:48 AM GMT
    Fountains saidThis reinforces the point we recently made about the role of corporate intermediaries in being able to aid governments in censorship, even in the absence of a trial or conviction. Either way, this is a really sad statement about both Visa and MasterCard and their willingness to cave to government pressure.


    What evidence is there exactly that there is so-alleged government pressure for companies to cease business dealings with Wikileaks? I hear this repeated over and over, but I have yet to see justification/support for this claim. icon_eek.gif