Senate vote on DADT Repeal: Fails

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Dec 09, 2010 9:09 PM GMT
    Vote 57-40. Needed 60 to repeal.

    Can't believe it... Obama needs to step in, but that's very unlikely.

    What's next?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Dec 09, 2010 9:43 PM GMT
    Buckeye988 saidVote 57-40. Needed 60 to repeal.

    Can't believe it... Obama needs to step in, but that's very unlikely.

    What's next?


    Was this the cloture vote?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Dec 09, 2010 9:45 PM GMT
    Blame the party of NO!

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Dec 09, 2010 9:47 PM GMT
    We need to stop feeding the false security that is the HRC. Has an organization ever done less with so much money? Time to support an organization with an actual ground game, rather than one with gala dinners, retail shops, and expensive marketing.
  • BIG_N_TALL

    Posts: 2190

    Dec 09, 2010 9:54 PM GMT
    Saying I'm disgusted doesn't really do justice to how I feel about this.
  • BIG_N_TALL

    Posts: 2190

    Dec 09, 2010 9:55 PM GMT
    catfish5 saidBlame the party of NO!




    Agreed
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Dec 09, 2010 9:58 PM GMT
    Christian73 said
    Buckeye988 saidVote 57-40. Needed 60 to repeal.

    Can't believe it... Obama needs to step in, but that's very unlikely.

    What's next?


    Was this the cloture vote?


    Yes, it was the cloture vote.

    A lot of people wondering why Harry Reid pushed for a cloture even though it was close to certain it would fail.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Dec 09, 2010 10:03 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 saidWas this a vote on just the repeal of DADT, or were there things like online gaming casinos, amnesty for illegal aliens and stuff like that in there?
    NO stupid.. read the fucking bill..
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Dec 09, 2010 10:04 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 saidWas this a vote on just the repeal of DADT, or were there things like online gaming casinos, amnesty for illegal aliens and stuff like that in there?


    No, it wasn't only DADT.

    "Republican Sens. Scott Brown (Mass.) and Lisa Murkowski (Alaska), who have expressed support for repealing the law, both voted no.

    Democratic Sen. Joe Manchin of West Virginia also voted against cloture.

    Several Republicans indicated they would support scrapping the ban, but they wanted to see an open debate process on the defense authorization bill, including the ability to offer a series of amendments. Those Republicans included Sen. Susan Collins (Maine), who voted in favor of cloture on Thursday, as well as Brown and Murkowski, who on Thursday voted against proceeding to the bill.

    Murkowski's statement of support for repealing the Clinton-era law Wednesday had given repeal advocates the necessary certainty that they would have the 60 votes necessary to make repeal happen.

    But Collins, the GOP's chief negotiator on the defense bill, on Thursday said she was "perplexed" and "frustrated" that Reid would allow the defense bill to become the "victim" of politics. Collins had wanted more time to debate amendments.

    Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-Conn.) said he'll introduce a free-standing bill to repeal the "Don't ask, don't tell" policy.

    Lieberman said that Reid agreed to bring legislation to the floor and that he would introduce it as soon as Thursday.
    The language would mirror the language in the defense authorization bill."-----------http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/132745-senate-fails-on-repeal-of-dont-ask-dont-tell
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Dec 09, 2010 10:15 PM GMT
    Chip2Stan saidWe need to stop feeding the false security that is the HRC. Has an organization ever done less with so much money? Time to support an organization with an actual ground game, rather than one with gala dinners, retail shops, and expensive marketing.

    I'm inclined to agree with you. HRC, though we're members and contribute to it, hasn't really delivered the goods.

    My former career was military. I understand tactics, I understand establishing clear goals, I understand results. And above all, I understand a ruthless laser focus on my objectives, and I've never failed. I'm not sure the HRC understands any of those things.

    What I think the gay community needs is a strong leader, something we've never had. Nor likely ever will have, because gays are like herding cats. Hence our ineffectiveness & political impotence.

    But if we ever did have a strong leader, and followed him or her while putting aside personal agendas & egos, and could stop the bickering among ourselves (that'll never come to pass), we might become a political force.

    Well, that ain't gonna happen. We'll have feel-good organizations like HRC, that do some genuine good for our community in modest ways, but none that'll ever advance us politically in the larger scheme of things.

    I love the quote from Shakespeare's play Julius Caesar, that I used to have framed on my Army office wall:

    "The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, but in ourselves..."

    We fail as gays not because of forces outside of our control, but because of our own faults. Until we acknowledge that, and learn how to reverse it, we will always fail politically in the US.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Dec 09, 2010 10:19 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    mocktwinkie said
    southbeach1500 saidWas this a vote on just the repeal of DADT, or were there things like online gaming casinos, amnesty for illegal aliens and stuff like that in there?


    No, it wasn't only DADT.

    "Republican Sens. Scott Brown (Mass.) and Lisa Murkowski (Alaska), who have expressed support for repealing the law, both voted no.

    Democratic Sen. Joe Manchin of West Virginia also voted against cloture.

    Several Republicans indicated they would support scrapping the ban, but they wanted to see an open debate process on the defense authorization bill, including the ability to offer a series of amendments. Those Republicans included Sen. Susan Collins (Maine), who voted in favor of cloture on Thursday, as well as Brown and Murkowski, who on Thursday voted against proceeding to the bill.

    Murkowski's statement of support for repealing the Clinton-era law Wednesday had given repeal advocates the necessary certainty that they would have the 60 votes necessary to make repeal happen.

    But Collins, the GOP's chief negotiator on the defense bill, on Thursday said she was "perplexed" and "frustrated" that Reid would allow the defense bill to become the "victim" of politics. Collins had wanted more time to debate amendments.

    Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-Conn.) said he'll introduce a free-standing bill to repeal the "Don't ask, don't tell" policy.

    Lieberman said that Reid agreed to bring legislation to the floor and that he would introduce it as soon as Thursday.
    The language would mirror the language in the defense authorization bill."-----------http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/132745-senate-fails-on-repeal-of-dont-ask-dont-tell




    Thanks for clearing that up. So it's another Harry Reid trick to make the gays think he and the Democrats want to repeal DADT.

    Hopefully Lieberman will get a stand alone vote on just DADT repeal.


    I'm pretty sure it will go through when DADT is a stand-alone. icon_smile.gif And it's coming very soon.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Dec 09, 2010 10:21 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    TropicalMark said
    southbeach1500 saidWas this a vote on just the repeal of DADT, or were there things like online gaming casinos, amnesty for illegal aliens and stuff like that in there?
    NO stupid.. read the fucking bill..


    Why are you always so hostile towards me?

    Insecurity? Jealously? Envy?

    I've never launched an unprovoked personal attack on you, so it's kind of a mystery why you are consistently mean.


    Perhaps if you amend your overall negative demeanor, you wouldn't receive such hostility. Just a thought.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Dec 09, 2010 10:50 PM GMT
    catfish5 saidPerhaps if you amend your overall negative demeanor, you wouldn't receive such hostility. Just a thought.


    I tend to agree. You do seem to be deliberately and inanely provocative much of the time. While I do not condone personal abuse, I think you sometimes reap what you sow. (And please spare us the "What, me?" faux indignation.)
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Dec 09, 2010 11:11 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 saidThanks for clearing that up. So it's another Harry Reid trick to make the gays think he and the Democrats want to repeal DADT.

    Hopefully Lieberman will get a stand alone vote on just DADT repeal.


    Three senators have already vowed to create a bi-partisan stand-alone bill, and Reid has already agreed to bring it to vote before the session ends. Repeal is still alive...but barely.

    Reid is retarded. He called this to a vote WAY to early because Republicans are still waiting on the tax cut bill to pass. The Democrats blocking it threw a monkey wrench in things.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Dec 09, 2010 11:24 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 saidThanks for clearing that up. So it's another Harry Reid trick to make the gays think he and the Democrats want to repeal DADT.

    Hopefully Lieberman will get a stand alone vote on just DADT repeal.

    Let's see. Every single Republican Senator voted against DADT repeal, but it was a trick of Democrat Harry Reid?

    No Republicans voted for repeal of DADT, insuring its failure, and it's Democrats who don't want to repeal it? What alternate universe do you come from?

    http://bunkerville.wordpress.com/2010/09/21/vote-tally-count-of-senate-failure-in-dont-ask-dont-tell-repeal/
  • novemberfox1

    Posts: 32

    Dec 09, 2010 11:26 PM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    Chip2Stan saidWe need to stop feeding the false security that is the HRC. Has an organization ever done less with so much money? Time to support an organization with an actual ground game, rather than one with gala dinners, retail shops, and expensive marketing.

    I'm inclined to agree with you. HRC, though we're members and contribute to it, hasn't really delivered the goods.

    My former career was military. I understand tactics, I understand establishing clear goals, I understand results. And above all, I understand a ruthless laser focus on my objectives, and I've never failed. I'm not sure the HRC understands any of those things.

    What I think the gay community needs is a strong leader, something we've never had. Nor likely ever will have, because gays are like herding cats. Hence our ineffectiveness & political impotence.

    But if we ever did have a strong leader, and followed him or her while putting aside personal agendas & egos, and could stop the bickering among ourselves (that'll never come to pass), we might become a political force.

    Well, that ain't gonna happen. We'll have feel-good organizations like HRC, that do some genuine good for our community in modest ways, but none that'll ever advance us politically in the larger scheme of things.

    I love the quote from Shakespeare's play Julius Caesar, that I used to have framed on my Army office wall:

    "The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, but in ourselves..."

    We fail as gays not because of forces outside of our control, but because of our own faults. Until we acknowledge that, and learn how to reverse it, we will always fail politically in the US.


    I wish I had the experience and the know how to be that leader. I don't know when or if I ever will but damn it I agree with you. If you want something done, then you have to do it yourself. I think we all need to get more involved. I know DADT will go away eventually, but thinking about that still doesn't fix how I feel right now. I want my vote back. I should have Backed Hilary Clinton. She has bigger balls, and she would've had the Republicans by theirs.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Dec 09, 2010 11:32 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    catfish5 said

    Perhaps if you amend your overall negative demeanor, you wouldn't receive such hostility. Just a thought.


    So now having different political views than the rest of the gays - and vigorously defending them when attacked - is an "overall negative demeanor" huh?


    It's not your views. It's the presentation of your views that usually has a negative slant.

    There are other posters with differing political views that generally coexist peacefully on here. It's just a matter of how you present those views.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Dec 09, 2010 11:35 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    catfish5 said
    southbeach1500 said
    catfish5 said

    Perhaps if you amend your overall negative demeanor, you wouldn't receive such hostility. Just a thought.


    So now having different political views than the rest of the gays - and vigorously defending them when attacked - is an "overall negative demeanor" huh?


    It's not your views. It's the presentation of your views that usually has a negative slant.


    Right.... I'm the one always calling people "asshole" and "fucktard" and "shithead" on here.....

    But can you provide a few examples of which you write? Examples where I'm not actually responding to an attack? Thanks.


    I'm just saying.......If you are concerned about the hostility directed toward you, you may want to try to amend your overall negative demeanor. If the hostility doesn't bother you, carry on man.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Dec 09, 2010 11:37 PM GMT
    novemberfox1 said
    Art_Deco said
    Chip2Stan said"The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, but in ourselves..."

    We fail as gays not because of forces outside of our control, but because of our own faults. Until we acknowledge that, and learn how to reverse it, we will always fail politically in the US.


    I wish I had the experience and the know how to be that leader. I don't know when or if I ever will but damn it I agree with you. If you want something done, then you have to do it yourself. I think we all need to get more involved. I know DADT will go away eventually, but thinking about that still doesn't fix how I feel right now. I want my vote back. I should have Backed Hilary Clinton. She has bigger balls, and she would've had the Republicans by theirs.


    I absolutely agree. I am increasingly frustrated by how Americans passively tolerant an ineffective government that has grown unwieldy and how the gay population, in particular, fails, time and time again, to organize and bring about the change we wish to see.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Dec 09, 2010 11:40 PM GMT
    I just heard another vote could come tomorrow. Diana Sawyer said it fell one vote short just now on ABC.
  • creature

    Posts: 5197

    Dec 09, 2010 11:42 PM GMT
    To be fair, some of the Republicans who voted "No" wanted the opportunity to present amendments to the Defense Bill. They said they would vote "No" if they didn't get that chance, and they kept their word. This doesn't mean those few Republicans don't support the repeal, but they have other issues in the Defense Bill that need to be addressed.

    To truly repeal DADT, they should have done it as a stand alone from the beginning. That way you can see who really favors the repeal, and who doesn't.
  • Webster666

    Posts: 9217

    Dec 09, 2010 11:43 PM GMT
    I'm SHOCKED, I tell you, SHOCKED that it didn't pass.
    Roll my eyes...

    Repeal of DADT will come from the Courts ....................... some day.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Dec 09, 2010 11:48 PM GMT
    I guess the government really doesn't listen to the people (and service members). How about doing "the right thing" rather than party-line crap?!? icon_evil.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Dec 09, 2010 11:51 PM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    Chip2Stan saidWe need to stop feeding the false security that is the HRC. Has an organization ever done less with so much money? Time to support an organization with an actual ground game, rather than one with gala dinners, retail shops, and expensive marketing.

    I'm inclined to agree with you. HRC, though we're members and contribute to it, hasn't really delivered the goods.

    My former career was military. I understand tactics, I understand establishing clear goals, I understand results. And above all, I understand a ruthless laser focus on my objectives, and I've never failed. I'm not sure the HRC understands any of those things.

    What I think the gay community needs is a strong leader, something we've never had. Nor likely ever will have, because gays are like herding cats. Hence our ineffectiveness & political impotence.

    But if we ever did have a strong leader, and followed him or her while putting aside personal agendas & egos, and could stop the bickering among ourselves (that'll never come to pass), we might become a political force.

    Well, that ain't gonna happen. We'll have feel-good organizations like HRC, that do some genuine good for our community in modest ways, but none that'll ever advance us politically in the larger scheme of things.

    I love the quote from Shakespeare's play Julius Caesar, that I used to have framed on my Army office wall:

    "The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, but in ourselves..."

    We fail as gays not because of forces outside of our control, but because of our own faults. Until we acknowledge that, and learn how to reverse it, we will always fail politically in the US.


    HRC is just one organization. Why do you blame it so much?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Dec 09, 2010 11:54 PM GMT
    creature saidTo be fair, some of the Republicans who voted "No" wanted the opportunity to present amendments to the Defense Bill. They said they would vote "No" if they didn't get that chance, and they kept their word. This doesn't mean those few Republicans don't support the repeal, but they have other issues in the Defense Bill that needs to be addressed.

    To truly repeal DADT, they should have done it as a stand alone from the beginning. That way you can see who really favors the repeal, and who doesn't.


    Let's not be too fair here. Reid offered 15 amendments to the Defense Bill- a number that was on par with the avg. number of amendments offered in previous years. After the Reps. saw that as a losing argument for them they turned to the time limit to discuss each amendment. Collins wanted 4 hours for each amendment. That's 60 hours worth of guaranteed discussion of the bill and its amendments. Such an unreasonable demand would have made it impossible for the Senate to have enough time left in their session to actually vote on the DADT repeal, much less accomplish anything else during the lame duck session (tax deals, START, DREAM, etc.)

    The Reps once again took the Senate, our troops, and the American people hostage (just as they did with the tax issues) and demanded something they knew was so unreasonable that it would never happen. This is how they are able to effectively kill DADT repeal (or any bill for that matter) and still, fairly successfully, pin the blame on the Dems.

    A “fair and open debate” is just another way for the Reps. to say “any and everything we want or nothing at all.”