UK university tuition hikes and protests

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 10, 2010 3:10 PM GMT
    I'm really curious to hear from those of you in the UK about this issue, partly because I work in international education SENDING American students to the UK... which means this issue is going to affect my office as well.

    I'm also very confused as to why they attacked Prince Charles and Camilla... they really have nothing to do with this, right? DO they just represent the rich who are not going to be as affected by this?

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    Dec 10, 2010 4:19 PM GMT
    Well the vote has been made in favour of increasing them, so all the protests were in vain.

    I can see both sides of the argument. If the government is cutting university funding, unless universities can charge higher fees, they just cannot continue to stay open.

    However, I would hate to finish university with tens of thousands of debt. Especially when the job market is so harsh for new graduates.

    I guess C&C just got caught in the crossfire really.

    Really, this issue affects the 'middle' income people as the poorest students will have financial support whereas the rich will not be that bothered - after all, many posh boarding schools charge more than £9k a year.
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    Dec 10, 2010 4:49 PM GMT
    I'm very heartened by it. Not that it will necessary change the outcome but I'm tired of seeing the middle class, and working poor get the shaft and just sucking it up.
  • conservativej...

    Posts: 2465

    Dec 10, 2010 6:12 PM GMT
    I think the rioters were looking for an opportunity. The rise in tuition was the opportunity; Prince Charles and Camilla became a convenient -- and yesterday -- accessible target.

    This is becoming more prevalent now days. It is as if they (the protesters) almost sit in wait for some covert political arm to call them to action. I do not think they are that different than a few of the more virulent RJ left wingers.

    What does surprise me is that Prince Charles and Camilla believe they are universally loved within British Society. I do not have any public persona and am generally not known publically as to wealth or lack thereof. However, in certain countries and in certain cities when travelling by car it is an armored Rolls. Moscow is an example. In Great Britain I believe the Royals are going to begin a period where they become more isolated and will move into armored cars. The element of hate that drives such actions is only going to become greater.
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Dec 10, 2010 11:57 PM GMT
    The Prince of Wales and Camilla mistakenly turned down a street where there were protests and they were attacked in their car

    camilla_1782430g.jpg

    Prince of Wales and the Duchess of Cornwall were driven blindly into a violent mob due to a breakdown in police communications.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/
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    Dec 11, 2010 12:00 AM GMT
    GQjock saidThe Prince of Wales and Camilla mistakenly turned down a street where there were protests and they were attacked in their car

    camilla_1782430g.jpg

    Prince of Wales and the Duchess of Cornwall were driven blindly into a violent mob due to a breakdown in police communications.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/


    Oh no! Inbred elitists were exposed to the plight of the commoners! Oh, the heavens must be falling!
  • BIG_N_TALL

    Posts: 2190

    Dec 11, 2010 12:11 AM GMT
    I understand why the government is tightening the 'budget belt,' but I fully support the student's outrage. I wish American students would be as outraged over astronomical tuition costs as our British counterparts.

    The only thing the United States and the UK has done is virtually preclude any hope for some young people of ever having a college education. I know plenty of people in the US who have had to given up higher education because they can't afford it.

    The only thing that I think will come out of this education policy debacle will be that the US and the UK will lose out when it comes to intellectual talent... and as a result... lose economic and political status in the world.
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    Dec 11, 2010 12:13 AM GMT
    A lot of people tag onto these protests, who are simply out to wreck property and hurt people. The police are in the invidious position of having to sort out the trouble makers. Charles and Camilla just happened to get caught up in a mob of the trouble makers.

    Like you in the US, we in the UK are undergoing an economic squeeze and are having to tighten our belts. As a member of the armed forces, I am currently under a 2 year pay freeze myself. Tough times call for tough measures and it is not unreasonable to expect students to start paying back a percentage of their tuition fees, once they are making a reasonable salary, which is all the government is asking.
  • DCEric

    Posts: 3713

    Dec 11, 2010 12:17 AM GMT
    Is tuition, like gas/petrol more expensive in the UK, when compared to the US? My tuition quadrupled during my four years of college, but there was no rioting (despite it being Penn State) and the protests were peaceful, if ineffective. So I'm not really sure when people are getting all bent out of shape over this.
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    Dec 11, 2010 12:20 AM GMT
    I find it really hard to sympathize with the students in the UK when students in the US are 50K+ in debt when they finish school and face the same harsh job market. Did I hear correctly that previously, students in the UK got their college education for free?
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    Dec 11, 2010 12:27 AM GMT
    DCEric saidIs tuition, like gas/petrol more expensive in the UK, when compared to the US? My tuition quadrupled during my four years of college, but there was no rioting (despite it being Penn State) and the protests were peaceful, if ineffective. So I'm not really sure when people are getting all bent out of shape over this.


    The tuition fees cap has been raised to £9000pa (about $14,400), to take effect from 2012. Loans to only be paid back at 9% of any income earned over £21,000 (about $33,300). If you earn less than that, you pay back nothing.

    As used to be the case in England, there are currently no tuition fees for students domiciled in Scotland. That was a decision by the Scottish Parliament. They can afford such largess, as (due to some accident of history) Scotland receives about 20% more, per head of population, in government funding than does England.
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    Dec 11, 2010 1:40 AM GMT
    The outrage isn't over the raise in tuition rates per se, but over the fact that our governments found hundreds of billions to bail out the banks that caused the economic crisis, and now the middle, working class and poor folk are being soaked while the bankers continue to get special treatment by our governments, loans at an interest rate we'd all salivate over, and not a single head has rolled among the bankers whose recklessness overleveraged the world.

    The CEO of Barclay's (a British bank) was the third highest paid CEO in the WORLD in 2008 as they snapped up the burning ash of Lehman Brothers with full government backing.

    Is that fair?
  • DCEric

    Posts: 3713

    Dec 11, 2010 2:22 AM GMT
    Christian73 saidIs that fair?


    Life isn't fair. Anyone who thinks otherwise has read one to many utopian books.
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    Dec 11, 2010 2:34 AM GMT
    MeOhMy saidOh no! Inbred elitists were exposed to the plight of the commoners! Oh, the heavens must be falling!


    No, they were exposed to a gang of criminals kicking the shit out of their car. You wouldn't have to be inbred or elitist to find that alarming. As it happens, it seems they both remained pretty cool about the whole thing.
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    Dec 11, 2010 4:56 AM GMT
    DCEric said
    Christian73 saidIs that fair?


    Life isn't fair. Anyone who thinks otherwise has read one to many utopian books.


    If you knew me better, Eric, you would never think I was anything remotely like "Utopian." There is a huge difference between an abstract concept of fairness and rejecting the citizenry of entire countries being made to pay for irresponsible (in some cases, criminal) acts conducted by a very few of them.
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    Dec 11, 2010 5:04 AM GMT
    They've been increasing tuition over here in California as well- it was increase by about 8% ($800~). This is why you have to choose a major that will actually help you find a good career.
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    Dec 11, 2010 12:34 PM GMT
    The UK has the highest tuition rates in the EU. When I first went to college after graduating in 92, I paid DM 80 for the whole semester (approx. $40 at the time.) Today it's €700 ($1000.) However, most of that money goes to pay for a) a semester ticket to ride public transport in almost the entire state, and b) classroom improvements, such as better equipment, tutors, etc. specific to your faculty. The remaining costs are still funded by the taxpayers. There were demonstrations before the fees were introduced. They are still ongoing to put an end to them again. Certain people are exempt from the fees, such as student parents and others than cannot afford them.
  • owen19832006

    Posts: 1035

    Dec 11, 2010 1:32 PM GMT
    let the record show that the rise in tuition fees only affects England, the rest of the UK (Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland) are not affected, as they have devolved administrations and education is a devolved issue, so for instance in Scotland Tuition fees were abolished a while ago. In Scotland education is a Right and not a Privilege.

    Now in regards to the rise of tuition fees in England, that was achieved because the Liberal Democrats sold their soul and principles for a ministerial car and a red box. The LibDem were always in favour of abolishing tuition fees and in fact ALL of them signed a pledge during the election in which they promised to vote Against any rise in tuition fees. When the day actually came only 21 LibDems lived up to their pledge and voted against the government, slashing their majority by 3/4. Now that it was passed in the Commons it goes up to the Lords and they can amend the legislation in which case it goes back to the Commons for another vote. The Lords could vote it down as they did with the 42 day detention with no charge law even though it was passed twice in the Commons. So if the Lords have any decency, their Lordships should amend it and send it back for it to be defeated in a second vote. Hopefully the backbench rebels will rebel again and gain more support to vote with the Opposition.

    So this battle is not over yet, the Lords will continue to debate it next week and I believe Labour and Crossbenchers are the majority in the lords [234 Labour Lords, 182Crossbenchers, 25 Lords Spiritual, 7 from Northern Ireland and 195 Conservatives and 79 Liberal Democrats of which many could rebel].

    In regards to the attack against Prince Charles and Duchess Camilla, that was absolutely unacceptable. yet i dont think the students did it, i think it was anarchists who hijacked the protests for their own purpose...

    We shall see what happens in a week or two, if the Lords vote Content then the Tuition fee bill becomes Law and they rise in January 2012. If they vote Not Content then it goes back to the Commons for further debates.
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    Dec 11, 2010 1:46 PM GMT
    owen19832006 saidlet the record show that the rise in tuition fees only affects England, the rest of the UK (Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland) are not affected, as they have devolved administrations and education is a devolved issue, so for instance in Scotland Tuition fees were abolished a while ago. In Scotland education is a Right and not a Privilege.


    It is a 'right' that is subsidised by tax payers in England (unfairly IMHO). If a UK-wide per-capita average of public expenditure was a notional 100% then identifiable per-capita expenditure on services in England would be 97% and the Scottish amount 117%. Wales would be 111% and Northern Ireland 127%.
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    Dec 11, 2010 2:49 PM GMT
    conservativejock saidI think the rioters were looking for an opportunity. The rise in tuition was the opportunity; Prince Charles and Camilla became a convenient -- and yesterday -- accessible target.

    This is becoming more prevalent now days. It is as if they (the protesters) almost sit in wait for some covert political arm to call them to action. I do not think they are that different than a few of the more virulent RJ left wingers.

    What does surprise me is that Prince Charles and Camilla believe they are universally loved within British Society. I do not have any public persona and am generally not known publically as to wealth or lack thereof. However, in certain countries and in certain cities when travelling by car it is an armored Rolls. Moscow is an example. In Great Britain I believe the Royals are going to begin a period where they become more isolated and will move into armored cars. The element of hate that drives such actions is only going to become greater.


    Oh you mean like the tea party? People who just happen have waited until they were whipped into a fake rage by pundits and politicians?

    GR2010120808056.gif
    taxdealbenefits_blog-011%20%281%29.png

    http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezraklein/2010/12/why_liberals_dont_like_the_tax.html

    What that second graph shows is how much how many people are sharing the red portion.
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    Dec 11, 2010 3:01 PM GMT
    Mil8 said
    owen19832006 saidlet the record show that the rise in tuition fees only affects England, the rest of the UK (Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland) are not affected, as they have devolved administrations and education is a devolved issue, so for instance in Scotland Tuition fees were abolished a while ago. In Scotland education is a Right and not a Privilege.


    It is a 'right' that is subsidised by tax payers in England (unfairly IMHO). If a UK-wide per-capita average of public expenditure was a notional 100% then identifiable per-capita expenditure on services in England would be 97% and the Scottish amount 117%. Wales would be 111% and Northern Ireland 127%.


    Education is a "right"? That kind of thinking just blows my mind. I guess because I've been conditioned to believe education is a priviledge in the US. And $40 - $1000 per semester- WOW -absolutely unreal.
  • conservativej...

    Posts: 2465

    Dec 11, 2010 3:05 PM GMT
    No, from people like you actually. People who hate due to envy, lack of all those things they lust to have but cannot, and a belief that it is the purpose of the wealthy to give them a lifestyle they cannot obtain on their own.

    These folks always tend to place the blame on someone else and attack those they oppose (the ad hominem fallacy), claiming they are loonies, like your Tea Party comment.

    Go right on with your postings. I applaud you in that. But that will not change the real anger that seemed to be far greater on November 2nd than your anger was in 2008.

    Best wishes to you in your beliefs. I act on mine. I hope you do too.

    DoomsDayAlpaca said
    conservativejock saidI think the rioters were looking for an opportunity. The rise in tuition was the opportunity; Prince Charles and Camilla became a convenient -- and yesterday -- accessible target.

    This is becoming more prevalent now days. It is as if they (the protesters) almost sit in wait for some covert political arm to call them to action. I do not think they are that different than a few of the more virulent RJ left wingers.

    What does surprise me is that Prince Charles and Camilla believe they are universally loved within British Society. I do not have any public persona and am generally not known publically as to wealth or lack thereof. However, in certain countries and in certain cities when travelling by car it is an armored Rolls. Moscow is an example. In Great Britain I believe the Royals are going to begin a period where they become more isolated and will move into armored cars. The element of hate that drives such actions is only going to become greater.


    Oh you mean like the tea party? People who just happen have waited until they were whipped into a fake rage by pundits and politicians?

    GR2010120808056.gif
    taxdealbenefits_blog-011%20%281%29.png

    http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezraklein/2010/12/why_liberals_dont_like_the_tax.html

    What that second graph shows is how much how many people are sharing the red portion.
  • kew1

    Posts: 1595

    Dec 11, 2010 3:06 PM GMT
    Mil8 said As it happens, it seems they both remained pretty cool about the whole thing.

    As , luckily for the protesters, did their armed guards
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    Dec 11, 2010 3:13 PM GMT
    catfish5 said
    Mil8 said
    owen19832006 saidlet the record show that the rise in tuition fees only affects England, the rest of the UK (Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland) are not affected, as they have devolved administrations and education is a devolved issue, so for instance in Scotland Tuition fees were abolished a while ago. In Scotland education is a Right and not a Privilege.


    It is a 'right' that is subsidised by tax payers in England (unfairly IMHO). If a UK-wide per-capita average of public expenditure was a notional 100% then identifiable per-capita expenditure on services in England would be 97% and the Scottish amount 117%. Wales would be 111% and Northern Ireland 127%.


    Education is a "right"? That kind of thinking just blows my mind. I guess because I've been conditioned to believe education is a priviledge in the US. And $40 - $1000 per semester- WOW -absolutely unreal.


    This is the difference between americans and the rest of the world lol
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    Dec 11, 2010 3:34 PM GMT
    Christian73 saidThe outrage isn't over the raise in tuition rates per se, but over the fact that our governments found hundreds of billions to bail out the banks that caused the economic crisis, and now the middle, working class and poor folk are being soaked while the bankers continue to get special treatment by our governments, loans at an interest rate we'd all salivate over, and not a single head has rolled among the bankers whose recklessness overleveraged the world.

    The CEO of Barclay's (a British bank) was the third highest paid CEO in the WORLD in 2008 as they snapped up the burning ash of Lehman Brothers with full government backing.

    Is that fair?


    You know the irony is that the bankers were the students a few decades ago. Some of the poor and middle class that we were supporting before went on to screw us over later.