Salvation Army, Love them or leave them.

  • YAAD2000

    Posts: 12

    Dec 15, 2010 11:26 AM GMT
    It's just isn't Christmas with out the Salvation Army and their little black kettles out in front of every store, ringing their bell.

    But did you know that The Salvation Army has a policy AGAINST helping Gays and lesbians who are in need this Christmas Basically they are saying thaty being gay and lesbian is against God and nature, and therefore they WILL NOT help us. What are your views? I know I WILL NOT be giving away any more change to that little black kettle.
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    Dec 15, 2010 11:50 AM GMT
    Well, not that I doubt your word, but I would be interested to see some evidence (and I don't mean one of those chain emails). After all, it could be an urban myth.
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    Dec 15, 2010 11:57 AM GMT
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/14/salvation-army-in-chicago_n_796669.html


    it's a well known fact - here's an article from 15 hrs ago
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    Dec 15, 2010 11:58 AM GMT
    I did not know this. Thank you for posting.
  • YAAD2000

    Posts: 12

    Dec 15, 2010 12:02 PM GMT
    Notes from the Salvation Army Web sites.
    "Christians whose sexual orientation is primarily or exclusively same-sex are called upon to embrace celibacy as a way of life. There is no scriptural support for same-sex unions as equal to, or as an alternative to, heterosexual marriage." - Salvation Army USA Web site, Dec. 2003

    "[Homosexual activity is] as rebellion against God's plan for the created order.... Homosexual practice, however, is, in the light of Scripture, clearly unacceptable. Such activity is chosen behaviour and is thus a matter of the will. It is therefore able to be directed or restrained in the same way heterosexual urges are controlled. Homosexual practice would render any person ineligible for full membership (soldiership) in the [Salvation] Army." - Salvation Army Australia Web site (emphasis added)

    From The Washington Post July 2001
    Charity Cites Bush Help in Fight Against Hiring Gays; Salvation Army Wants Exemption From Laws.
    The [Bush] administration is working with the nation's largest charity, the Salvation Army, to make it easier for government-funded religious groups to practice hiring discrimination against gay people, according to an internal Salvation Army document.

    Need more? Google it icon_smile.gif

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    Dec 15, 2010 12:06 PM GMT
    Thanks. I had a look at their website. Here is a direct quote:

    salvationarmyusa.org
    Homosexuality

    The Salvation Army holds a positive view of human sexuality. Where a man and a woman love each other, sexual intimacy is understood as a gift of God to be enjoyed within the context of heterosexual marriage. However, in the Christian view, sexual intimacy is not essential to a healthy, full, and rich life. Apart from marriage, the scriptural standard is celibacy.

    Sexual attraction to the same sex is a matter of profound complexity. Whatever the causes may be, attempts to deny its reality or to marginalize those of a same-sex orientation have not been helpful. The Salvation Army does not consider same-sex orientation blameworthy in itself. Homosexual conduct, like heterosexual conduct, requires individual responsibility and must be guided by the light of scriptural teaching.

    Scripture forbids sexual intimacy between members of the same sex. The Salvation Army believes, therefore, that Christians whose sexual orientation is primarily or exclusively same-sex are called upon to embrace celibacy as a way of life. There is no scriptural support for same-sex unions as equal to, or as an alternative to, heterosexual marriage.

    Likewise, there is no scriptural support for demeaning or mistreating anyone for reason of his or her sexual orientation. The Salvation Army opposes any such abuse.

    In keeping with these convictions, the services of The Salvation Army are available to all who qualify, without regard to sexual orientation. The fellowship of Salvation Army worship is open to all sincere seekers of faith in Christ, and membership in The Salvation Army church body is open to all who confess Christ as Savior and who accept and abide by The Salvation Army's doctrine and discipline.

    Scriptures: Genesis 2:23-24; Leviticus 18:22; Mark 2:16-17; Romans 1:26-27; Romans 5:8; I Corinthians 6:9-11; I Corinthians 13; Galatians 6:1-2; I Thessalonians 4:1-8; I Thessalonians 5:14-15; I Timothy 1:15-16; Jude 7


    I am naturally suspicious of any religious-based organisation, but was prepared to give the SA a break, because of their work. It does not say they are not prepared to help gay people, so to say that is taking a bit of poetic license, but they are disparaging in their views on gay people. Needless to say, I will be giving then a wide berth.
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    Dec 15, 2010 12:19 PM GMT
    Which is why my partner & I give to gay-focused charities. If the straights don't want us associated with their charities, fine, we'll support our own. Ones that do a better job of meeting the needs of the gay community anyway, especially in areas like counseling, safe-sex education, and rescue missions for homeless gay youth.
  • LJay

    Posts: 11612

    Dec 15, 2010 1:47 PM GMT
    The statement quoted by Mil8 is certainly stern but more accepting of the issue than many conservative religious bodies.

    I am not in a position to contribute to charities now, but I do acknowledge that, in their sphere, the Salvation Army, works hard and provides a lot of help to the needy. When I have needed to buy items at their thrift stores, no one has subjected me to a litmus test and I have always been thanked for my purchase.
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    Dec 15, 2010 1:57 PM GMT
    Dumb question, but is the Salvation Army funded with federal monies???
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    Dec 15, 2010 2:26 PM GMT
    We stopped giving to the Salvation Army in 2008 when we found out about this. I had a long conversation with the local pastor and told him that in good conscience I couldn't contribute, especially considering our country has complete equal rights and told him that such ostracism (which they're entitled to) comes with a price.

    There are lots of other equally needy organizations and individuals, and so they are the happy recipients now.

    -Doug
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    Dec 15, 2010 3:22 PM GMT
    I am so embarrassed that I didn't know this before, and I am shocked at myself for giving them money up until now! That ends today!
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    Dec 15, 2010 3:24 PM GMT
    They definitely are discriminatory, and I don't give to them either. Once in a while I do feel sorry for the bell-ringers tho and drop some change in.
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    Dec 15, 2010 3:29 PM GMT
    antelope saidThey definitely are discriminatory, and I don't give to them either. Once in a while I do feel sorry for the bell-ringers tho and drop some change in.


    I buy 'em snacks, like a coffee and a scone or turnover. It's cold out there!

    I can still do unto them as I would want them to do unto me. icon_wink.gif

    -Doug
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    Dec 15, 2010 3:34 PM GMT
    meninlove said
    antelope saidThey definitely are discriminatory, and I don't give to them either. Once in a while I do feel sorry for the bell-ringers tho and drop some change in.


    I buy 'em snacks, like a coffee and a scone or turnover. It's cold out there!

    I can still do unto them as I would want them to do unto me. icon_wink.gif

    -Doug



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  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 15, 2010 3:34 PM GMT
    I don't give to any organized charities at all. Instead, when one of my friends is in need, I help him or her personally.
    In fact, I'll be paying for a friend's MRI next week because he needs it and doesn't have the money for it.
    Charity organizations are nothing but an excuse to get tax-free income for the board members.
  • jeepguySD

    Posts: 651

    Dec 15, 2010 3:40 PM GMT
    I always used to drop $1 or $2 in a Salvation Army kettle every time I saw one, but then I saw on the news a few years ago that the Salvatoin Army had fired a number of employees just because they were gay. I have not given a single penny to the Salvation Army since then, and I never will again.

    I still donate to charities, but only to those that either do not discriminate, or to those that support our troops, such as the USO.
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    Dec 15, 2010 3:42 PM GMT
    Oh! I can tell them I'm gay! Then they wouldn't want my moneyicon_lol.gif
  • turtleneckjoc...

    Posts: 4685

    Dec 15, 2010 3:43 PM GMT
    I refuse to help them any more as they recently turned their back on me.

    Before Thanksgiving, I called them regarding some assistance and their response was basically, "tough shit."

    No more. Never again.
  • CalebKM

    Posts: 156

    Dec 15, 2010 3:45 PM GMT
    They say they are pulling all charities from new york if they pass same sex insurance. I'm never giving them change again, scums!
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    Dec 15, 2010 3:46 PM GMT
    I am glad to say I already research companies or foundations before I donate and I have never knowingly given a dime to The Salvation Army. Well it probably had more to do with I do not donate to churches.
  • LuckyGuyKC

    Posts: 2080

    Dec 15, 2010 4:01 PM GMT
    I resolved a long time ago to appreciate the good work that the Salvation Army does without feeling guilt in giving my money to organizations that evangalize and help without discriminating or judging.

    So let the Salvation Army be who they are and find other missions in your community that help people without discriminating.
  • swimbikerun

    Posts: 2835

    Dec 15, 2010 4:27 PM GMT
    Speaking of this: how is this form of hatred different than any other hate group? It's written (or interpreted) in some damn book authored hundreds of years ago seems to be the only difference.
    The KKK hates gays just as much as these religious groups. If the KKK holds some bake sale for a charity or feeds some homeless people do such actions counter-balance the spread of hate and intolerance?
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    Dec 15, 2010 4:31 PM GMT
    BuddyX saidOh! I can tell them I'm gay! Then they wouldn't want my moneyicon_lol.gif


    I doubt that the people that collect money for The Salvation Army are familiar with the SA's policies on gays. They're collecting money for poor and wretched people who really need it. When someone is homeless or dirt poor (or collecting for such people) I wouldn't harass them about the policies of any agency that helps them. I do agree with not supporting the SA, as there are other agencies/organizations that assist the needy. I would go further and tell friends etc. about their anti-gay policies and suggest other charities.
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    Dec 15, 2010 4:43 PM GMT
    BuddyinNYC said
    BuddyX saidOh! I can tell them I'm gay! Then they wouldn't want my moneyicon_lol.gif


    I doubt that the people that collect money for The Salvation Army are familiar with the SA's policies on gays. They're collecting money for poor and wretched people who really need it. When someone is homeless or dirt poor (or collecting for such people) I wouldn't harass them about the policies of any agency that helps them. I do agree with not supporting the SA, as there are other agencies/organizations that assist the needy. I would go further and tell friends etc. about their anti-gay policies and suggest other charities.


    That's very nice. I agree.
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    Dec 15, 2010 5:32 PM GMT
    YAAD2000 saidIt's just isn't Christmas with out the Salvation Army and their little black kettles out in front of every store, ringing their bell.

    But did you know that The Salvation Army has a policy AGAINST helping Gays and lesbians who are in need this Christmas Basically they are saying thaty being gay and lesbian is against God and nature, and therefore they WILL NOT help us. What are your views? I know I WILL NOT be giving away any more change to that little black kettle.


    This is all well and good, so long as you give that money to another organization (perhaps a shelter for queer youth, or something). If this just means that you don't end up giving money to anyone else, then it seems to me you're simply being spiteful. The Salvation Army does a lot of good, but I certainly can't blame gays for not supporting the organization, just so long as they donate to other gay-friendly organizations.