Gay vs. Queer

  • irishboxers

    Posts: 357

    Mar 20, 2008 12:27 AM GMT
    Okay y'all, for my first forum thread I'd like to discuss your thoughts on the label "gay" versus "queer". It's been coming up lately in a few other threads, so let's have at it.

    Personally, I take "queer" to mean "flawed" or "not normal". All debate on what's "normal" aside, I'm not a fan of "queer". I understand the position that by using it a whole lot we'll take the power of the word away, but the meaning remains the same. I take issue with gay publications like The Advocate who slap "queer" or "queer-friendly" on anyone who comes within shouting distance of a gay cause.

    On the flip side (and to paraphrase "Fame"), "gay" is such a "happy" word and is used as such throughout literature; John Steinbeck is a particular fan of using "gay" to describe someone as happy and carefree. True that it's not the current common meaning, but it's not the first time a word has two unrelated meanings.

    So how 'bout it guys: are you flawed and not normal, or are you happy and carefree?

    icon_biggrin.gif
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    Mar 20, 2008 12:48 AM GMT
    Queer has lost its punch with me. It is more how someone says it. But then that can apply to "hello," too.

    There are numerous instances where derogatory words used by opponents have been appropriated by the objects of those words and used by them.

    I think "queer" is detoxifying into that category.
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    Mar 20, 2008 1:19 AM GMT
    [shrugs] I think they're both legit. I don't particularly prefer one. Queer does seem to have slightly more provacative connotations--it seems less polite to call someone 'queer' than 'gay' to me, and queer seems more like an insult...but I don't know that I'd go so far as to say one is a positive view of gay people and the other negative. Just that one is popularly considered more offensive.

    So I've taken to describing myself as queer, just to scare out all the people who have issues with the 'social acceptability' of homosexuality and throw the most provactively, socially unacceptable description of my sexuality in their collective face. Mostly because those people annoy the hell out of me.
  • ShawnTX

    Posts: 2484

    Mar 20, 2008 3:23 AM GMT
    UGH!

    gay/gAy/g0y/gEy/queer/homo/fag/fairy/fudge packer/uphill gardener (hehe, still love that one)/top/bottom/versatile/quuen/mary/androphile/butch/femme/dom/sub/cornholer/cocksucker/princess/bitch/sister/girlfriend/straight acting/limp wristed/screamer/flamer

    GAY is GAY

    Anyone who doesn't agree with me is wrong!
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    Mar 20, 2008 3:32 AM GMT
    I'm gay, proud, happy and carefree.

    I don't really give a whit what anybody thinks anymore. The people who have known me for my past 18 years that are now coming to see I'm gay can't believe it.

    "You don't fit the stereotype! There's nothing wrong with you, how can you be gay?"

    They don't believe it because otherwise, I'm a normal person. More and more of us are defying the stereotypes. It's not that I'm straight acting either; that's for straight people to do.

    I'm just me.

    This sums it up. icon_smile.gif
  • ShawnTX

    Posts: 2484

    Mar 20, 2008 3:48 AM GMT
    urbanappeal said

    "You don't fit the stereotype! There's nothing wrong with you, how can you be gay?"

    They don't believe it because otherwise, I'm a normal person.


    Now you just know someone on here is gonna rip that statement apart.
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    Mar 20, 2008 4:28 AM GMT
    irishboxers said On the flip side (and to paraphrase "Fame")


    In 1977, I was in a long-defunct bar in New York City, sitting with some older gay friends, having a conversation about language, when one of the group, a chronically depressed drunk, slurred out at about one-thirty in the morning, "Gay used to mean such a happy word."

    One of the group was my friend Chris Gore, who wrote the screenplay of the movie "Fame". I was amused later to see it show up in the screenplay. Someone apparently wasn't too drunk to take notes.
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    Mar 20, 2008 4:34 AM GMT
    ok... so what I learned as a gay club president wast that gay is more of a term for men who like men, homosexual males..Queer is not the sexuality, more of a preference meaning for examples bondage, vampire ism, that critter costume sex one, or most importantly, someone who doesn't fit the mold of gay man, lesbian, straight or anything, they just prefer queer to make another term for their sexuality ( in that sense, a man can find himself discovering that he yearns to be a woman, but he doesn't want to be a straight woman, because he/she still likes women.) It is not an "abnormality", but more of another category, or a middle ground of some sorts.
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    Mar 20, 2008 4:38 AM GMT
    oh and for the love of god...please stop thinking that words that already used in the dictionary are set in stone...what a word means in he dictionary, has to be that way for every time it is used...things change, especially in many languages, words can evolve into other meanings and stuff...don't think everything is so concrete...a lot of times life is not like that.
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    Mar 20, 2008 4:45 AM GMT
    IrishboxersSo how 'bout it guys: are you flawed and not normal, or are you happy and carefree?

    I'm basically happy, I have plenty of flaws and I'm especially happy not to be "normal" by conventional definitions of the normative.

    To me it's odd to think you can't be "abnormal" and "happy."
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    Mar 20, 2008 4:50 AM GMT
    obscenewish saidTo me it's odd to think you can't be "abnormal" and "happy."


    Yes, master, the brain was labeled "Abbie Normal".
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    Mar 20, 2008 4:50 AM GMT
    I thought queer just meant odd and not flawed. I have been known to be weird so could be called queer, and happy too so I could be gay. However, if you really want to be normal you just have to look hard enough and you will find a bell curve that fits you.
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    Mar 20, 2008 4:52 AM GMT
    ... you just have to look hard enough and you will find a bell curve that fits you.

    One in the shape of an ass in your case darling?
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    Mar 20, 2008 5:19 AM GMT
    ShawnTO saidUGH!

    gay/gAy/g0y/gEy/queer/homo/fag/fairy/fudge packer/uphill gardener (hehe, still love that one)/top/bottom/versatile/quuen/mary/androphile/butch/femme/dom/sub/cornholer/cocksucker/princess/bitch/sister/girlfriend/straight acting/limp wristed/screamer/flamer

    GAY is GAY

    Anyone who doesn't agree with me is wrong!


    You forgot gayelle, it's the new female form of gay, in order to replace lesbian.
  • ShawnTX

    Posts: 2484

    Mar 20, 2008 5:30 AM GMT
    WildCuddler said[quote][cite]ShawnTO said[/cite]UGH!

    gay/gAy/g0y/gEy/queer/homo/fag/fairy/fudge packer/uphill gardener (hehe, still love that one)/top/bottom/versatile/quuen/mary/androphile/butch/femme/dom/sub/cornholer/cocksucker/princess/bitch/sister/girlfriend/straight acting/limp wristed/screamer/flamer

    GAY is GAY

    Anyone who doesn't agree with me is wrong!


    You forgot gayelle, it's the new female form of gay, in order to replace lesbian.[/quote]

    Oh lord.
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    Mar 20, 2008 9:03 AM GMT
    I for one, hate being forced under the banner of Gay, as we are not all one! They put any Tom, Dick, or Harriet, under the banner of gay.

    bears, leather queens, queens, bi men, married bi men, regular guys, whom love to suck cock, are all put under the banner of gay! Or Queer. I find nothing queer about wanting to suck a nice cock, or having another guy blow me. Or the fact, if one falls in love. it 'tis with a man; what is queer about that?

    So one dose not identify with the label queer, not my banner. I refuse to stand under the banner of gay, with leather queens, queens, bears, dyke's, bi men. As one is none of the above!

    No. I will stand under the banner of Fag! This is the banner for regular guys, in regular jobs, whom love other regular guys.

    bears, queens, leather queens, dyke's, and even bi guys, can all have your own flag, and banner. But don't come and stand under the fag banner, as this is for us regular guys, whom can walk into any pub, sit and have a drink, and not stand out. Yet we are out!

    Oh a fag, is not a faggot, qirly twinks can have that one.......
  • Laurence

    Posts: 942

    Mar 20, 2008 9:23 AM GMT
    Pattison. Have you been drinking?

    If not, then you should, it might loosen you up and stop you talking such bullsh*t.


    Loz

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    Mar 20, 2008 1:31 PM GMT
    urbanappeal saidI'm gay, proud, happy and carefree.

    I don't really give a whit what anybody thinks anymore. The people who have known me for my past 18 years that are now coming to see I'm gay can't believe it.

    "You don't fit the stereotype! There's nothing wrong with you, how can you be gay?"

    They don't believe it because otherwise, I'm a normal person. More and more of us are defying the stereotypes. It's not that I'm straight acting either; that's for straight people to do.

    I'm just me.

    This sums it up. icon_smile.gif


    I am glad you are you, but if you are "normal" you are probably the only member of the human race that is, god you must be lonely.

    "Normal" is a useful term in a statistics class, but to describe human behaviour not so much. I have never met a normal person only a whole bunch of quirky people I have not had the honour of living with yet!
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    Mar 20, 2008 1:31 PM GMT
    we are all the same...
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    Mar 20, 2008 1:32 PM GMT
    Moudi saidwe are all the same...


    Good heavens, I hope not. How dull THAT would be.
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    Mar 20, 2008 1:35 PM GMT
    jprichva said[quote][cite]Moudi said[/cite]we are all the same...


    Good heavens, I hope not. How dull THAT would be.[/quote]


    in a sense that we should not discriminate against one another, not being the same person. even withing gay culture, people discriminate and call each other names....if u really think about it, we are humans, whether u like to suck dick, take it up the ass..or enjoy being pinched in the nipples, that doesnt change the person as a human bieng....so gay/queer/straight/bi/whatever...doesnt make a difference
  • ShawnTX

    Posts: 2484

    Mar 20, 2008 1:37 PM GMT
    Pattison, refer to my first post.

    You're wrong.

    I think the lamest thing any of us can do is try to separate ourselves from every other GAY person that doesn't look and act exactly like us.

    So you're not a leather man or a drag queen...so what? You want to have nothing to do with them...fine. But the turth is - they're GAY, you're GAY, we're all GAY.

    Do you think straight people spend so much time on something so lame as to attempt giving eachother labels based on who they want to sleep with or how they dress?

    Lame Lame Lame

    BTW, fag is short for faggot, they're one and the same and have the same meaning:

    you're GAY.

    Again, anyone who doesn't agree with me is wrong.
    icon_twisted.gificon_twisted.gificon_twisted.gif
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    Mar 20, 2008 1:44 PM GMT
    Semantics, haven't we got more important things to worry about then what we are called? I use gay because that is what has become the accepted norm over the past 30 years or so. Would I prefer another term? Perhaps, but in the grand scheme of things it really does not matter a "tinkers damn."

    Equal opportunity and acceptance by society of us is more important then whether society calls us queer or gay. Just goes to show that we have progressed quite a ways if this is the biggest fight we have amongst ourselves. In some parts of the world we would be worried about staying out of prison or the executioner's noose.
  • NickoftheNort...

    Posts: 1416

    Mar 20, 2008 1:54 PM GMT
    I am, and that's pretty much it.

    The rest is gravy frozen to point of being sculpted, then decorated with icing, and then strewn with innumerable toppings, all blending in as one human goo.

    I am gay, queer, and a bag of chips (moving toward low to no-fat, though without any gawd-awful Olestra).
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    Mar 20, 2008 1:55 PM GMT
    [quote][cite]

    I am gay, queer, and a bag of chips (moving toward low to no-fat, though without any gawd-awful Olestra).[/quote]

    LMFAO!!!!! haha..that got me laughing