DADT-

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    Dec 18, 2010 4:49 PM GMT
    63 vs 33
    icon_lol.gif


  • Menergy_1

    Posts: 737

    Dec 18, 2010 5:01 PM GMT
    that's for cloture -- and now there's the up/down vote in 30 hours or so....and they only need 51 vote to pass it, not 60 as for cloture... Let's GO!!!!!
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    Dec 18, 2010 5:03 PM GMT
    Incredible it looks like it's going to happen! About time!! Huge!
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    Dec 18, 2010 5:06 PM GMT
    I wonder what the bill says tho. I am expecting all sorts of language that will drag the implementation out for years!

    And I am still not happy with O and the Dems putting us thru this long and humilating process. They've only pressed this point at the end cuz they are going to need every vote they can get in 2 years. O only did this cuz he has fucked up everything else so badly. Otherwise we'd be waiting another 2 years.
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14390

    Dec 18, 2010 5:07 PM GMT
    It would be great to see DADT get permanently repealed but time is rapidly running out. Lets hope the Senate votes yes on repeal if this measure gets to the Senate floor before the end of the year.
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    Dec 18, 2010 5:11 PM GMT
    I think they're voting in the next hour to finalize it. Hard to imagine they could lose 13 votes in an hour...although worse things have happened I'm sure. It's still looking pretty probable!

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    Dec 18, 2010 5:21 PM GMT
    NYMan saidI think they're voting in the next hour to finalize it. Hard to imagine they could lose 13 votes in an hour...although worse things have happened I'm sure. It's still looking pretty probable!



    It is on the agenda...
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    Dec 18, 2010 5:23 PM GMT
    Caslon17000 saidI wonder what the bill says tho. I am expecting all sorts of language that will drag the implementation out for years!

    And I am still not happy with O and the Dems putting us thru this long and humilating process. They've only pressed this point at the end cuz they are going to need every vote they can get in 2 years. O only did this cuz he has fucked up everything else so badly. Otherwise we'd be waiting another 2 years.


    This has been your diatribe for months and now it's happening and you're still finding something to bitch about. icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Dec 18, 2010 5:35 PM GMT
    Christian73 said
    Caslon17000 saidI wonder what the bill says tho. I am expecting all sorts of language that will drag the implementation out for years!

    And I am still not happy with O and the Dems putting us thru this long and humilating process. They've only pressed this point at the end cuz they are going to need every vote they can get in 2 years. O only did this cuz he has fucked up everything else so badly. Otherwise we'd be waiting another 2 years.


    This has been your diatribe for months and now it's happening and you're still finding something to bitch about. icon_rolleyes.gif

    Do you know what's in the bill?

    And yes, how I/We are treated is important. And O and the Dems have not been staunch supports of our rights and dignity. They have jerked us arpund every step of the way. To the point, that the media adopted the word "whiplash" to describe it.

    Just cuz they have gotten themselves in a corner and have to do this for their own good doesn't mean I have to be blind to how they have operated. Cuz the next time, they might not be a corner and I can see just how much the Dems can be relied on for my civil rights, good life, and pursuit of happiness. And I can tell you, Chritian, it isn't very much!

  • creature

    Posts: 5197

    Dec 18, 2010 5:38 PM GMT
    My thoughts exactly Christian.

    Here's a snippet from the HuffingtonPost:

    Even after the measure were to become law, the policy change wouldn't go into effect right away. Obama and his military advisers would have certify that the change wouldn't hurt the ability of troops to fight, and there would also be a 60-day waiting period.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/18/dont-ask-dont-tell-repeal_5_n_798636.html

    I was surprised to see two additional Republican names in support of the repeal: George Voinovich of Ohio and Mark Kirk of Illinois.
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    Dec 18, 2010 5:42 PM GMT
    Just read "breaking news" on MSNBC, the final vote will be approximately 3:00 PM , only 51 votes are needed now. Its happening !!!
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    Dec 18, 2010 5:51 PM GMT
    Watching the live discussions on CSPAN now.
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    Dec 18, 2010 5:59 PM GMT
    creature saidMy thoughts exactly Christian.

    Here's a snippet from the HuffingtonPost:

    Even after the measure were to become law, the policy change wouldn't go into effect right away. Obama and his military advisers would have certify that the change wouldn't hurt the ability of troops to fight, and there would also be a 60-day waiting period.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/18/dont-ask-dont-tell-repeal_5_n_798636.html

    I was surprised to see two additional Republican names in support of the repeal: George Voinovich of Ohio and Mark Kirk of Illinois.

    Precisely! This isn't a real repeal of discrimination in the military. They are just leaving it up to the military's discression. That's why O didn't want it decided by the courts. The courts would have banned discrimination outright. With this bill, gays will still be discriminated against in the military. They will be excluded from positions and combat. All the plum career positions will go to straights!

    Don't celebrate too heartily, boys. We are being snookered!
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    Dec 18, 2010 6:18 PM GMT
    Caslon17000 said
    creature saidMy thoughts exactly Christian.

    Here's a snippet from the HuffingtonPost:

    Even after the measure were to become law, the policy change wouldn't go into effect right away. Obama and his military advisers would have certify that the change wouldn't hurt the ability of troops to fight, and there would also be a 60-day waiting period.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/18/dont-ask-dont-tell-repeal_5_n_798636.html

    I was surprised to see two additional Republican names in support of the repeal: George Voinovich of Ohio and Mark Kirk of Illinois.

    Precisely! This isn't a real repeal of discrimination in the military. They are just leaving it up to the military's discression. That's why O didn't want it decided by the courts. The courts would have banned discrimination outright. With this bill, gays will still be discriminated against in the military. They will be excluded from positions and combat. All the plum career positions will go to straights!

    Don't celebrate too heartily, boys. We are being snookered!


    That is an extremely cynical view of what is actually happening.

    There will be a 60-day window for certification (after 17 years, 2 months is not a long time) and the president will likely need to issue an executive order to outright prohibit discrimination on gays and lesbians. Since they have brought it this far, I am confident he will.

    And I say this as someone for whom DADT was never MY issue. Still, it is a reason for celebration.
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    Dec 18, 2010 6:35 PM GMT
    Christian73 said
    Caslon17000 said
    creature saidMy thoughts exactly Christian.

    Here's a snippet from the HuffingtonPost:

    Even after the measure were to become law, the policy change wouldn't go into effect right away. Obama and his military advisers would have certify that the change wouldn't hurt the ability of troops to fight, and there would also be a 60-day waiting period.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/18/dont-ask-dont-tell-repeal_5_n_798636.html

    I was surprised to see two additional Republican names in support of the repeal: George Voinovich of Ohio and Mark Kirk of Illinois.

    Precisely! This isn't a real repeal of discrimination in the military. They are just leaving it up to the military's discression. That's why O didn't want it decided by the courts. The courts would have banned discrimination outright. With this bill, gays will still be discriminated against in the military. They will be excluded from positions and combat. All the plum career positions will go to straights!

    Don't celebrate too heartily, boys. We are being snookered!


    That is an extremely cynical view of what is actually happening.

    There will be a 60-day window for certification (after 17 years, 2 months is not a long time) and the president will likely need to issue an executive order to outright prohibit discrimination on gays and lesbians. Since they have brought it this far, I am confident he will.

    And I say this as someone for whom DADT was never MY issue. Still, it is a reason for celebration.

    I'll wait and see. We gave been jerked around too many times for me to get excited until it is done and final. Call me cynical, but I still expect it to be a ruse. O is no friend of ours.
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    Dec 18, 2010 6:35 PM GMT
    Christian73 said
    Caslon17000 said
    creature saidMy thoughts exactly Christian.

    Here's a snippet from the HuffingtonPost:

    Even after the measure were to become law, the policy change wouldn't go into effect right away. Obama and his military advisers would have certify that the change wouldn't hurt the ability of troops to fight, and there would also be a 60-day waiting period.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/18/dont-ask-dont-tell-repeal_5_n_798636.html

    I was surprised to see two additional Republican names in support of the repeal: George Voinovich of Ohio and Mark Kirk of Illinois.

    Precisely! This isn't a real repeal of discrimination in the military. They are just leaving it up to the military's discression. That's why O didn't want it decided by the courts. The courts would have banned discrimination outright. With this bill, gays will still be discriminated against in the military. They will be excluded from positions and combat. All the plum career positions will go to straights!

    Don't celebrate too heartily, boys. We are being snookered!


    That is an extremely cynical view of what is actually happening.

    There will be a 60-day window for certification (after 17 years, 2 months is not a long time) and the president will likely need to issue an executive order to outright prohibit discrimination on gays and lesbians. Since they have brought it this far, I am confident he will.

    And I say this as someone for whom DADT was never MY issue. Still, it is a reason for celebration.

    I'll wait and see. We have been jerked around too many times for me to get excited until it is done and final. Call me cynical, but I still expect it to be a ruse. O is no friend of ours. He is simply in a corner and needs our votes in 2 years.
  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Dec 18, 2010 7:18 PM GMT
    Glad to see it's happening and 6 Republicans had the stuff to pull their heads out (awesome) and make it happen. The "bad old" republicans aren't going to stop this one.
  • Little_Spoon

    Posts: 1562

    Dec 18, 2010 7:20 PM GMT
    It's going to be so awesome to go on a date near base, heck or on base. To hold someones hand.

    D:

    Of all the fears involved with love this one seemed the most unnecessary.
  • McLukas

    Posts: 33

    Dec 18, 2010 7:26 PM GMT
    Hey all,

    First post icon_smile.gif I think this is the bill going forward as the DADT repeal. Hopefully the link works. It's real short and pretty straight forward. There's a section that says you can't be barred form MO's or promotions because of orientation.

    http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:S.3065:
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    Dec 18, 2010 7:27 PM GMT
    I wonder if there'll be a huge spike in gays enlisting soon. icon_question.gif
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    Dec 18, 2010 7:32 PM GMT
    I fully expect Obama to sign an Executive Order ceasing any and all discharges under DADT.
  • Menergy_1

    Posts: 737

    Dec 18, 2010 7:38 PM GMT
    McLukas saidHey all,

    First post icon_smile.gif I think this is the bill going forward as the DADT repeal. Hopefully the link works. It's real short and pretty straight forward. There's a section that says you can't be barred form MO's or promotions because of orientation.

    http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:S.3065:

    Thanks, McLucas, for the link to the bill's wording/contents.

    Which see, southbeach1500
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    Dec 18, 2010 7:40 PM GMT
    McLukas saidHey all,

    First post icon_smile.gif I think this is the bill going forward as the DADT repeal. Hopefully the link works. It's real short and pretty straight forward. There's a section that says you can't be barred form MO's or promotions because of orientation.

    http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:S.3065:


    Thank you, welcome aboard, Things will be much much better going forward for our bro's
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    Dec 18, 2010 7:46 PM GMT
    Get on with the vote dammit; I wanna get outdoors! icon_wink.gif
  • mustangd

    Posts: 434

    Dec 18, 2010 7:50 PM GMT
    the discourse on this topic is emblematic of the current political scene in america. we are offered only 2 choices in partys, 2 that have any real chance of getting elected. both partys are influenced by special interests, as without real campaign reform, our elections are heavily decided by big money.

    my point being, look at our 2 choices. on the one hand we have now what is aptly named, "REPUBLIC CORP." the corporate entity that masquaerades as the former republican party. look at what their puppets aka politicians say and vote. the party of fiscal responsibilibty said that unless tax breaks were kept for the weathiest americans, they woudl vote NO on everything. if DADT was put to a vote, they would vote NO on the START Treaty, which is only in americas' best interest, to try and limit the number of nuclear warheads in the world. look to at the New York bill to help out those who responded on 9/11, many have died already from breathing the toxins released by the collapse of the trade centers, many more are left with impaired breathing capacity, and are fundamentally disabled from breathing that toxic air. REPUBLICORP poliiticians wrap themselves in the flag, and "honor" those who responded on 9/11, yet, when it comes to a vote to pass legislation to help those who were harmed by responding on and after 9/11, right down the party lines, REPUBLICORP votes AGAINST the Bill. so unless REPUBLICORP has its way, its no, no, no, no, no....look at what their candidates say about gays in general...

    now we have the other party, far from perfect as it is, the democrats. also heavily influenced by special interests, its the only way they can get elected. but, lets look at the 2 partys, one generally has no interest in furthering the rights of gays, the other makes an effort, and has made some progress. would there even be a vote today if we had a republicorp president and congress? i doubt it very much.

    the same is true for a list of other issues, republicorp wrecked our economy, started 2 wars, one that was un-necessary, violated the constitutional provisions of privacy, and in general stampeded the country into demise, all of which was largely profitable, for a very FEW americans.

    yet, there is a cross section of americans who look at the democrats and say " we're upset with you, you didn't do enough, and you didn't do it fast enough, you haven't restored the economy in 2 years time, even though it took 8 years to unravel it, you didn't pass the right kind of health care reform even though there was no chance of anything coming out of the other political alternative, you wound down the war in iraq, and seem to be prosecuting the war in afghanistan with some vigor, and a shade more intelligence than the people who started it and left it in a mess, still though not good enough, we expected more and faster..." and the same is true of DADT. what would be happening if republicorp was still running the show, hmmmm? NADA, not a damn thing. remember they were the folks who wanted a constituional amendment to ban gay marriage?

    so my point is, instead of sitting back and complaining about how the democrats haven't done enough, and fast enough on a host of topics, lets compare what they've done, and have tried to do, compared to what republicorp offers as an alternative.....