Why do we say all people are created equal?

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    Dec 19, 2010 3:49 AM GMT
    We can see all are different. Do you believe that all people are created equal? Why do you think so?
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    Dec 19, 2010 4:10 AM GMT
    Caslon17000 saidWe can see all are different. Do you believe that all people are created equal? Why do you think so?


    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness
    -Declaration of Independence


    It is what our nations founders believed in. IT means also that we must tolerate others religion, race and ideas, even though we may not agree with them.
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    Dec 19, 2010 4:11 AM GMT
    Zeck said
    Caslon17000 saidWe can see all are different. Do you believe that all people are created equal? Why do you think so?


    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness
    -Declaration of Independence


    It is what our nations founders believed in.

    Yes, but why did they believe that? What is it that makes all people equal?
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    Dec 19, 2010 4:16 AM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    Caslon17000 saidWe can see all are different. Do you believe that all people are created equal? Why do you think so?

    With regards to rights.

    I agree, Under the law, all persons must be equal.

    That rarely occurs in actuality in the US, of course, The rich and well-connected always get a pass, while everyone else goes to jail. The US has 5% of the world's population, but incarcerates 25% of the prisoners held in all the jails on Earth, the highest number of any country. Not even China and Russian exceed that percentage, or number.

    Why do you think that is? I'd like to hear your explanation for those numbers, and that disparity with the rest of the world.
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    Dec 19, 2010 4:21 AM GMT
    Back in the 1700s the bible played an important part in everyday life, and according to the bible we are all gods children, thus we are all equal to one another.
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    Dec 19, 2010 4:21 AM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    southbeach1500 said
    Caslon17000 saidWe can see all are different. Do you believe that all people are created equal? Why do you think so?

    With regards to rights.

    I agree, Under the law, all persons must be equal.

    Why? Why shouldnt a less educated or dumber person be treated more leniently than a more educated or smarter person? The smarter person should know better, shouldnt he?
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    Dec 19, 2010 4:22 AM GMT
    Zeck saidBack in the 1700s the bible played an important part in everyday life, and according to the bible we are all gods children, thus we are all equal to one another.

    Good point. But not the right answer. But you are on the right track....just it wasnt religious. What else was the big deal going on then?
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    Dec 19, 2010 4:28 AM GMT
    Caslon17000 said
    Art_Deco said
    southbeach1500 said
    Caslon17000 saidWe can see all are different. Do you believe that all people are created equal? Why do you think so?

    With regards to rights.

    I agree, Under the law, all persons must be equal.

    Why? Why shouldnt a less educated or dumber person be treated more leniently than a more educated or smarter person? The smarter person should know better, shouldnt he?

    You're discussing extenuating circumstances, that may be relevant to a particular issue before the court. But every person comes before the court as an equal, or should, unless they have money & connections. We see this every day, where the wealthy beat the system, and the poor pay the full penalty.

    Well, has it ever been different in history? Our so-called US democracy is actually a facade for an oligarchy. It's been that way for over 200 years. If you weren't aware of that, you are naive in the extreme.
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    Dec 19, 2010 4:33 AM GMT
    Caslon17000 said
    Zeck saidBack in the 1700s the bible played an important part in everyday life, and according to the bible we are all gods children, thus we are all equal to one another.

    Good point. But not the right answer. But you are on the right track....just it wasnt religious. What else was the big deal going on then?


    Plus most if not half of the signers of the The Declaration of Independence were against slavery and slavery was even back then a big issue and only grew as time went on until it reached the breaking point (civil War).
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    Dec 19, 2010 4:48 AM GMT
    Zeck said
    Caslon17000 said
    Zeck saidBack in the 1700s the bible played an important part in everyday life, and according to the bible we are all gods children, thus we are all equal to one another.

    Good point. But not the right answer. But you are on the right track....just it wasnt religious. What else was the big deal going on then?


    Plus most if not half of the signers of the The Declaration of Independence were against slavery and slavery was even back then a big issue and only grew as time went on until it reached the breaking point (civil War).

    Think Englightenment. But now it will get too arcane unless you know the philosophers of the Englightenment well.

    Actually, the basis for our stating that all men are created equal is that it was believed that altho we are different in intellect, strength, etc, we are all born with an equal internal moral sense. We can all tell right from wrong equally. Therefore, we are all deserving of equal treatment before the law, both for rights and for accountability. This is based on the philosopher of Francis Hutchinson.

    He also wrote an mathematical equation for happiness. It was thought that everything....EVERYTHING...could be reduced to mathematics. Issac Newton casted a long shadow.

    This is the greatest book! I read it back in the '70s (I think it was) Then it went out of print. Glad to see it is back in print, but the cover is weird!

    inventingamerica.jpg

    Product Description
    From one of America's foremost historians, Inventing America compares Thomas Jefferson's original draft of the Declaration of Independence with the final, accepted version, thereby challenging many long-cherished assumptions about both the man and the document. Although Jefferson has long been idealized as a champion of individual rights, Wills argues that in fact his vision was one in which interdependence, not self-interest, lay at the foundation of society. "No one has offered so drastic a revision or so close or convincing an analysis as Wills has . . . The results are little short of astonishing"
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    Dec 19, 2010 4:49 AM GMT
    Caslon17000 saidWe can see all are different. Do you believe that all people are created equal? Why do you think so?


    I was created to be the best at everything... so that means everyone else was created to be less than me.
  • JonPk

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    Dec 19, 2010 4:59 AM GMT
    Caslon17000 saidWe can see all are different. Do you believe that all people are created equal? Why do you think so?


    Being equal doesn't mean being identical. We all have strengths and weaknesses that kind of balance all of us out. Your strengths don't have any more value than mine and vice versa.
  • musclmed

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    Dec 19, 2010 5:14 AM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    southbeach1500 said
    Caslon17000 saidWe can see all are different. Do you believe that all people are created equal? Why do you think so?

    With regards to rights.

    I agree, Under the law, all persons must be equal.

    That rarely occurs in actuality in the US, of course, The rich and well-connected always get a pass, while everyone else goes to jail. The US has 5% of the world's population, but incarcerates 25% of the prisoners held in all the jails on Earth, the highest number of any country. Not even China and Russian exceed that percentage, or number.

    Why do you think that is? I'd like to hear your explanation for those numbers, and that disparity with the rest of the world.


    The concept of natural rights of man was a direct repudiation of the hereditary government of England and monarchy.

    All men being created equal says what it means. They are.

    The societies you mention that have less people in jail also have people disappearing never to be seen again. Journalist being shot in the streets. And odd and embarrassing comparison.

    We are created equal.
    With some minor exceptions, any citizen can run for office. Own a business, and get an education.

    There is also the little problem of statistics, not every country counts and reports there numbers.

    We get trial by jury, innocent go to jail, but you have a better system? Why dont you foster a prisoner ?
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    Dec 19, 2010 5:21 AM GMT
    Boy, some people have trouble distinguishing between cause and result on here. ... icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Dec 19, 2010 5:22 AM GMT
    musclmed said
    Art_Deco said
    southbeach1500 said
    Caslon17000 saidWe can see all are different. Do you believe that all people are created equal? Why do you think so?

    With regards to rights.

    I agree, Under the law, all persons must be equal.

    That rarely occurs in actuality in the US, of course, The rich and well-connected always get a pass, while everyone else goes to jail. The US has 5% of the world's population, but incarcerates 25% of the prisoners held in all the jails on Earth, the highest number of any country. Not even China and Russian exceed that percentage, or number.

    Why do you think that is? I'd like to hear your explanation for those numbers, and that disparity with the rest of the world.


    The concept of natural rights of man was a direct repudiation of the hereditary government of England and monarchy.

    All men being created equal says what it means. They are.

    The societies you mention that have less people in jail also have people disappearing never to be seen again. Journalist being shot in the streets. And odd and embarrassing comparison.

    We are created equal.
    With some minor exceptions, any citizen can run for office. Own a business, and get an education.

    There is also the little problem of statistics, not every country counts and reports there numbers.

    We get trial by jury, innocent go to jail, but you have a better system? Why dont you foster a prisoner ?

    You have all those things cuz you are considered equal. They didnt make you equal.
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    Dec 19, 2010 5:34 AM GMT
    Despite the fact that Caslon was present at the signing of the declaration of independence I challenge his assigning the meaning of the statement of "all created equal" as being based in enlightened philosophy, it clearly is in reference to being children of God as stated earlier, the US was founded by religious fundamentalists, if you visit the memorials in DC they are filled with quotes linking religion, equality and freedom.

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    Dec 19, 2010 5:36 AM GMT
    Caslon17000 said
    Zeck said
    Caslon17000 said
    Zeck saidBack in the 1700s the bible played an important part in everyday life, and according to the bible we are all gods children, thus we are all equal to one another.

    Good point. But not the right answer. But you are on the right track....just it wasnt religious. What else was the big deal going on then?


    Plus most if not half of the signers of the The Declaration of Independence were against slavery and slavery was even back then a big issue and only grew as time went on until it reached the breaking point (civil War).

    Think Englightenment. But now it will get too arcane unless you know the philosophers of the Englightenment well.

    Actually, the basis for our stating that all men are created equal is that it was believed that altho we are different in intellect, strength, etc, we are all born with an equal internal moral sense. We can all tell right from wrong equally. Therefore, we are all deserving of equal treatment before the law, both for rights and for accountability. This is based on the philosopher of Francis Hutchinson.


    I have a hard time believing this. I do not believe we are all born with an internal moral compass--at least not one that is "complete." That's sounds a lot like religious rhetoric for to me. And what moral issues are we talking about? What exactly IS "Right or Wrong?" I have a very difficult time looking to a 2,000+ year old book for answers in morality--especially the Bible.

    But even so... we are certainly not all born equal... nor do we enter the adult world as equals--we are all the product of our genectic sequences, our health, our experiences, our up-bringing, and the morals and values instilled in us by those we admired as younglings. We are also a product of those who rised us... their views, their financial, mental, and emotional stability, their traditions and spirituality, their intellect and intellectual curiosity, their level of education, and so on.

    This is why I laugh at those who demonize criminals/terrorists. When mass murderers are labeled "monsters" or "inhuman" I think it perpetuates a dangerous idea: The Idea that crinimals are vastly different from peaceful people--the idea that criminals are solely responsible for their actions--the idea that there is a thick wall seperating the mind of a criminal from the mind of a law-biding citizen.

    Edit: Laws make us legally equal as a society. Those rights and laws do very little but to "open doors" for those who have been nutured how to "walk."
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    Dec 19, 2010 5:38 AM GMT
    Clearly I am superior.
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    Dec 19, 2010 5:48 AM GMT
    tallcanuck saidDespite the fact that Caslon was present at the signing of the declaration of independence I challenge his assigning the meaning of the statement of "all created equal" as being based in enlightened philosophy, it clearly is in reference to being children of God as stated earlier, the US was founded by religious fundamentalists, if you visit the memorials in DC they are filled with quotes linking religion, equality and freedom.


    The founding fathers werent ardent Christians or religious fundamentalists.

    Stick to your own country's history...like when Britian had to transport 10,000 reinforcement troops thru Canada by sleigh during the American Civil War ...in case of attack from the US... because the "Canadian" railroad still went thru the US. ... icon_lol.gif
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    Dec 19, 2010 5:52 AM GMT
    tallcanuck saidDespite the fact that Caslon was present at the signing of the declaration of independence I challenge his assigning the meaning of the statement of "all created equal" as being based in enlightened philosophy, it clearly is in reference to being children of God as stated earlier, the US was founded by religious fundamentalists, if you visit the memorials in DC they are filled with quotes linking religion, equality and freedom.


    The Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution are primarily influenced by the Enlightenment philosopher John Locke, not Jesus.
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    Dec 19, 2010 5:59 AM GMT
    Caslon17000 said
    tallcanuck saidDespite the fact that Caslon was present at the signing of the declaration of independence I challenge his assigning the meaning of the statement of "all created equal" as being based in enlightened philosophy, it clearly is in reference to being children of God as stated earlier, the US was founded by religious fundamentalists, if you visit the memorials in DC they are filled with quotes linking religion, equality and freedom.


    The founding fathers werent ardent Christians or religious fundamentalists.

    Stick to your own country's history...like when Britian had to transport 10,000 reinforcement troops thru Canada by sleigh during the American Civil War ...in case of attack from the US... because the "Canadian" railroad still went thru the US. ... icon_lol.gif


    Typical self-important american.

    My country? I'd almost wager a $1 that my lineage traces much farther back in US roots than 90% of the membership on here.

    I have the luxury of dual-citizenry. And will freely lay claim to the fact that the only foreign forces to ever invade the US mainland were Upper Canadians, during the Battle of Bladensburg which resulted in the capture and burning of Washington DC.

    I suppose all of the quotes referenced and carved in marble throughout DC aren't those of Christians?? Funny how almost everyone one of them mentions God and how the principles that the country was based on come from religious beliefs held by the founding fathers.
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    Dec 19, 2010 6:00 AM GMT
    mnboy saidClearly I am superior.
    That just means you retain a shitload of water. icon_razz.gif
    lsm_map2.jpg
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    Dec 19, 2010 6:01 AM GMT
    paulflexes said
    mnboy saidClearly I am superior.
    That just means you retain a shitload of water. icon_razz.gif
    lsm_map2.jpg


    It says WaWA.
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    Dec 19, 2010 6:02 AM GMT
    paulflexes said
    mnboy saidClearly I am superior.
    That just means you retain a shitload of water. icon_razz.gif
    lsm_map2.jpg

    That would be if I put a "Lake" before the superior. Since I did not my first statement still stands.
    Me>World.
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    Dec 19, 2010 6:24 AM GMT
    JoeB1986 said
    I was created to be the best at everything... so that means everyone else was created to be less than me.


    mnboy said
    Clearly I am superior.


    Everyone (or at least the vast majority of people) puts their self-interests first and values themselves more than those around them. So I'd say yeah, we might not all be "created equal" but treating each other any other way would lead to conflict as everyone would disagree on who is worth more than others.