Ah, someone who agrees with me on DADT

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    Dec 20, 2010 2:44 AM GMT
    "Why am I so grumpy? No, it's not because I'm Scrooge. ... I'm grumpy because the positive aspects of the Don't Ask, Don't Tell repeal pale in comparison to the problems that still surround the larger issue of how we treat gays and lesbians, especially when you consider how long it took for the repeal to arrive, and how much garbage had to be endured to get there."

    Read the rest: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mitchell-bard/glad-to-see-dadt-gone-but_b_798820.html
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    Dec 20, 2010 2:57 AM GMT
    To me, not much has changed. It's not like every service member is gonna run out and chant "we're here, we're queer.." and strut their stuff. I think most of them will remain discrete. Well, at least the ones that want a long term military career. Because really, now that DADT has been repealed, it just means they can't get officially kicked out of the military for being gay. But they can still be subjected to harassment and discrimination from within. So yeah, this is just the beginning. There will be a lot of growing pains ahead.
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    Dec 20, 2010 3:51 AM GMT
    huffington articleEven with the repeal, it seems like it's still acceptable in some circles to openly disparage gays and lesbians, in a way that would not be tolerated with religious, ethnic or racial groups




    Isn't this a little be premature saying nothing has changed since the repeal since it was only repealed 2 days ago, the ink isn't dry and it hasn't even been signed into law yet?

    Regardless there will always be those people disparaging gays and lesbians. It somewhat irks me when I read on here sweeping generalizations made about Canada and Holland and such painting rosey pictures of everyone sitting in a circle joining hands. I don't think so. , There are still plenty who are anti-gay here only they are more guarded and less likely to make public statements now.

    I would think though that this repeal will mark a turning point for gays in the US. Foremost being that it is the US goverment ceding to it not a single state. That along with more and more states implementing protections creates a precedent for lack of the right word at the moment that if and when and likely will happen, the US Supreme Court has to make decisions they won't be able to ignore that the view of what the majority of Americans consider acceptable has changed markedly..

    I would hope so anyways.
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    Dec 20, 2010 3:56 AM GMT
    xrichx saidThere will be a lot of growing pains ahead.
    That sums it up best.
    It took 17 years to get this far.
    One strike of the pen isn't going to change 17 years of hatred overnight.

    PS. I say "17 years of hatred" because when I served (before DADT), you could be openly gay right beside your boyfriend, but nobody would believe you if you seemed straight...even if you told them otherwise. They'd just think you're trying to get discharged early.
  • Mepark

    Posts: 806

    Dec 20, 2010 4:15 AM GMT
    xrichx saidTo me, not much has changed. It's not like every service member is gonna run out and chant "we're here, we're queer.." and strut their stuff. I think most of them will remain discrete. Well, at least the ones that want a long term military career. Because really, now that DADT has been repealed, it just means they can't get officially kicked out of the military for being gay. But they can still be subjected to harassment and discrimination from within. So yeah, this is just the beginning. There will be a lot of growing pains ahead.


    What'd you expect man? That was the point of this repeal; so men don't get kicked out if their sexuality is discovered. I don't think anyone pushed for repeal so that we can freely wear rainbow underwear in the deserts of the Middle East.
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    Dec 20, 2010 5:20 AM GMT
    Mepark said
    xrichx saidTo me, not much has changed. It's not like every service member is gonna run out and chant "we're here, we're queer.." and strut their stuff. I think most of them will remain discrete. Well, at least the ones that want a long term military career. Because really, now that DADT has been repealed, it just means they can't get officially kicked out of the military for being gay. But they can still be subjected to harassment and discrimination from within. So yeah, this is just the beginning. There will be a lot of growing pains ahead.


    What'd you expect man? That was the point of this repeal; so men don't get kicked out if their sexuality is discovered. I don't think anyone pushed for repeal so that we can freely wear rainbow underwear in the deserts of the Middle East.




    I would actually understand if they passed a law against that.
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    Dec 20, 2010 6:43 AM GMT
    The article has many good points, but it fails to even allow a few days for celebration and the author seems to feel that I should be bitter rather than happy. Yes, the repeal was overdue. Yes, it should never have been enacted. Yes, there is still much that needs to be done. However, feeling some accomplishment and some joy at the fall of a rotten piece of legislation before identifying other targets seems like a good thing to do. Reflecting on an accomplishment and identifying what worked and what did not seems like the best course of action rather than bitterly stating that it is not enough.

    The closing sentence of that article is jaded beyond belief. "I'm overjoyed that Don't Ask, Don't Tell is dead. But I can't help but find more bad than good associated with its repeal."

    How can you feel that there is more bad than good associated with the repeal? The fact is that it stood for 17 years as one of the most visible pieces of discriminatory legislation and short of a time machine to change that history there is nothing to do but celebrate it's fall. The repeal represents movement in one of the most conservative, change resistant institutions that America has- it's military.

    The simple fact is that decades after the civil rights movement there remains work that needs to happen before there is any true equality and discrimination based on skin colour ends. There is no reason to believe that it will not be the same with gay rights and acceptance. It will take decades, and if you only look at the distance to go and refuse to celebrate the victories no matter how small and how long they take I think you may be a bitter, jaded, unhappy person before you see equality. (This coming from a bitter, jaded, occasionally unhappy person.)
  • shoelessj

    Posts: 511

    Dec 20, 2010 8:03 AM GMT
    pretty poorly written. nothing he writes supports any point he'd want to make. just badly written, but it is HuffPo. it offers nothing constructive nor provides us with any hope that the bigotry would subside at some point. and his thoughts jump around before he makes any real arguments.
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    Dec 22, 2010 3:04 AM GMT
    Mepark said
    xrichx saidTo me, not much has changed. It's not like every service member is gonna run out and chant "we're here, we're queer.." and strut their stuff. I think most of them will remain discrete. Well, at least the ones that want a long term military career. Because really, now that DADT has been repealed, it just means they can't get officially kicked out of the military for being gay. But they can still be subjected to harassment and discrimination from within. So yeah, this is just the beginning. There will be a lot of growing pains ahead.


    What'd you expect man? That was the point of this repeal; so men don't get kicked out if their sexuality is discovered. I don't think anyone pushed for repeal so that we can freely wear rainbow underwear in the deserts of the Middle East.

    Put the Kool Aide down. You've had enough. Gays should be able to be as free and open about their sexuality as straights. There should be absolutely no stigma whatsoever in being gay or making any expression of being gay. Rainbow underwear not withstanding!
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    Dec 22, 2010 3:23 AM GMT
    xrichx said it just means they can't get officially kicked out of the military for being gay.


    Believe me, if you are a gay person serving in the armed forces, this alone is like a HUGE millstone being lifted from around your neck.
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    Dec 22, 2010 3:34 AM GMT
    Mil8 said
    xrichx said it just means they can't get officially kicked out of the military for being gay.


    Believe me, if you are a gay person serving in the armed forces, this alone is like a HUGE millstone being lifted from around your neck.


    Agreed. We as a community should definitely take a moment to soak this victory in as much as we can. Moments like this only happen a few times a century. We should fatten up and restock our hope and spirit for the lean times that will most likely come with this new wave of Republican Congressmen.

    This is not just one victory. This monumental shift in policy will add incredible strengths to our pending legal causes. The courts will not be able to ignore this change when they consider whether we deserve the right to marry and be free from discrimination in the workplace. It is true we still have a long way to go, but the repeal of DADT has changed the way the game will be played forever.
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    Dec 22, 2010 4:43 AM GMT
    Mepark said

    What'd you expect man? That was the point of this repeal; so men don't get kicked out if their sexuality is discovered. I don't think anyone pushed for repeal so that we can freely wear rainbow underwear in the deserts of the Middle East.
    Do you, asswipe, have any fucking idea how hard it was to complete a career in the military as a gay man before this repeal?
    I didnt THINK so..

    button it before you sound morbidly stupid.
  • mybud

    Posts: 11819

    Dec 22, 2010 5:09 AM GMT
    Listen...the military was set up to follow orders and follow the chain of command.....Like our minority brothers through the same integration process years ago...Things will change...as they should...We can look at all the negatives or we can be thankful and look for the positives....BUD
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    Dec 22, 2010 6:11 AM GMT
    I think it will be a long time before the US military culture becomes this comfortable with serving amongst openly gay men and women. But we'll get there eventually.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1234993/Gay-trooper-says-coming-best-decision.html