An allegory for white guilt

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    Dec 21, 2010 7:14 AM GMT
    White guilt, or feeling guilty for being white due to historic acts of oppression such as slavery, is commonly seen in the American liberal. Symptoms of white guilt include political correctness and affirmative action.

    An allegory for white guilt would be arresting the innocent grandson of a serial killer. We do not know those responsible for slavery. We are not guilty, just as the innocent grandson played no part in his grandfather's crimes.
  • xher

    Posts: 168

    Dec 21, 2010 9:39 AM GMT
    If you inherit property/money/power/prestige you inherit sin and debt as well- can't eat your cake and have it too.

    And implying whites in the past were bad and whites now are good is far from the truth. White countries presently commit massive financial fraud and acts of state terrorism on a consistent basis, the thing is that now they are hidden from the public.

    That said it's dumb to broad brush so many people, and of course most other ethnic/racial groups would do the exact same thing if they had the power (cough Muslims cough), and many whites (like just about everyone else) are just stupid, ignorant and/or irrational and not necessarily evil.

    But white guilt? It's a fucking joke designed to disarm non-whites and make them trust white countries and corporations. Liberals may pretend to feel guilty but you can bet your ass not even .0001% of them has done anything meaningful at all to address their "social justice" talking points.

    They do it because it makes them feel edgy and cool. When's the last time a white country has lifted any African state out of poverty?

    Never. At the end of the day they only spare a few sweet words, "nice thoughts" and the crumbs off of their table to these glamorous celebrity causes.
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    Dec 21, 2010 10:34 AM GMT
    I don't really think the majority of Black people blame White people today for slavery, just the few uneducated idiots and the super fervent "I am from AFRICA and I am a VICTIM" hyper-sensitive morons like Reverend Jesse Jackson.
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    Dec 21, 2010 2:03 PM GMT
    jprichva said
    FearTheFall saidWhite guilt, or feeling guilty for being white due to historic acts of oppression such as slavery, is commonly seen in the American liberal. Symptoms of white guilt include political correctness and affirmative action.

    This is hogwash of the very silliest order.
    Agreed............. just uneducated crap.
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    Dec 21, 2010 2:25 PM GMT
    all the replies thus far: agreed

    When i think of 'white guilt', Tina Fey's 30 Rock Liz Lemon character pops to my mind as those i encounter with it: somebody who is actually kind of bigoted in some of their natural reactions and views but is so eager to appear socially evolved and on the side of the underdog that they go out of their way to appear this way to those around them- especially minorities. Like a closeted gay guy trying desperately to appear straight. Trying so hard to prove a point- ridiculous and hilarious simultaneously.

    It's pretty ironic and funny to observe, especially as a black person who isn't one of the extremely small and vocal minority who jump on the 'white people are all evil bandwagon' out of deep rooted ignorance and bitterness from some likely childhood trauma.

    Political correctness gets taken too far- and people can become fascist in their demands for everyone to observe it. That isn't to say that we should all see no problem about being deeply and intentionally offensive to people's identity.

    Affirmative action gets taken to far at times. Yes the best person should be rewarded for being so. However, life is not a fair playing field, minorities who have had significantly less opportunities and representation due in part to closed elitism and unfair selection should, in my opinion, be given to opportunity to play on the same field, have the same chances of success as those who haven't had to face the same social adversity.

    Just sayin'
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    Dec 21, 2010 2:26 PM GMT
    What's the allegory for Right Wing fundamentalist Christian guilt? The kind that says we're all guilty sinners right from the git-go.

    That, depending on your faith's theology, is because of the foolish & faithless Adam and Eve (talk about reaching back for historic acts!), or simply the sex act our parents had that produced us, or for failing to accept Jesus as our Savior, or not believing the particular version of the Bible the preachers are promoting, or whatever gives followers that old time feeling of guilt.

    I really don't think your model claiming that Liberals have the exclusive corner on guilt can stand close scrutiny. And lockstep Right Wing political conformity far exceeds anything seen from the Left under the term political correctness.
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    Dec 21, 2010 2:36 PM GMT
    FearTheFall saidWhite guilt, or feeling guilty for being white due to historic acts of oppression such as slavery, is commonly seen in the American liberal. Symptoms of white guilt include political correctness and affirmative action.

    An allegory for white guilt would be arresting the innocent grandson of a serial killer. We do not know those responsible for slavery. We are not guilty, just as the innocent grandson played no part in his grandfather's crimes.

    This is silly, insulting, and wrong.

    Outside of that, great post!
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    Dec 21, 2010 9:08 PM GMT
    OtterJoq said
    FearTheFall saidWhite guilt, or feeling guilty for being white due to historic acts of oppression such as slavery, is commonly seen in the American liberal. Symptoms of white guilt include political correctness and affirmative action.

    An allegory for white guilt would be arresting the innocent grandson of a serial killer. We do not know those responsible for slavery. We are not guilty, just as the innocent grandson played no part in his grandfather's crimes.

    This is silly, insulting, and wrong.

    Outside of that, great post!


    No, it's completely true but you're not exactly one to relish truth.
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    Dec 21, 2010 9:35 PM GMT
    To some of the respondents: You may vehemently disagree with the OP, but before dismissing it as uneducated crap, or other words to the effect, you ought to take maybe 10 minutes of your time and in Google or Amazon search for White Guilt. You'll find at least a couple of books on the topic. One is White Guilt by Shelby Steele. If you search Shelby Steele, you will see he has several degrees and is a research fellow at the Hoover Institution at Stanford University, specializing in race relations, multiculturalism, and affirmative action. You can read the rest of his credentials and you will see he is neither uneducated nor stupid. It might follow that the books he writes are not indicative of an uneducated or stupid author.

    Again, you can disagree but it ought to be on intelligent terms. To just dismiss it out of hand saying it is uneducated crap makes those who responded as such really seem foolish.
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    Dec 21, 2010 9:39 PM GMT
    http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/tapped_archive?month=01&year=2010&base_name=conservative_white_guilt

    http://www.amnation.com/vfr/archives/017211.html

    "William Saletan at Slate sees the Beck rally as the final conservative surrender to multi-cultural orthodoxy.

    Did these portrayals whitewash the sins against which King campaigned? No. In fact, the rally was full of apologies. "It was you, Lord God, who called us to account when we broke the treaties with the first peoples," the Rev. Paul Jehle confessed in the opening prayer. "You called us to repentance. And you, O God, called us to repentance when we did not live up to our creed, and we did not treat everyone as equal." Palin followed Jehle to the podium, calling slavery "our greatest shame." Beck told the crowd, "Let's be honest: If you look at history, America has been both terribly good and terribly bad." He conceded: "Countries make mistakes. We have made more than our fair share." A video reviewed the ugly era of segregation and concluded that King "awoke our nation's collective consciousness." Awoke our consciousness! That's a line ... "

    -Doug

    Gosh, are Beck and Palin liberals?

  • Webster666

    Posts: 9217

    Dec 21, 2010 10:05 PM GMT
    FearTheFall saidWhite guilt, or feeling guilty for being white due to historic acts of oppression such as slavery, is commonly seen in the American liberal. Symptoms of white guilt include political correctness and affirmative action.

    An allegory for white guilt would be arresting the innocent grandson of a serial killer. We do not know those responsible for slavery. We are not guilty, just as the innocent grandson played no part in his grandfather's crimes.





    You're an idiot.
    I'll bet your joining South Carolina's FOUR YEAR celebration of their secession from the United States over their insistence on having slavery.

    White guilt ?!
    Maybe whites have always been a majority.
    Maybe whites decided to do the right thing and legislate equality, not out of guilt, but because it's right.
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    Dec 22, 2010 1:37 AM GMT
    What a load of right-wing BS.
    Whining about "white guilt" is nothing more than playing the race card.
    LAME.

    And you right-wingers don't get to define why "the American liberal" cares about race relations.
    It has nothing to do with past actions.
    It's about equality in the here and now - and it's about not stereotyping and discriminating against people based on who they are or what they look like.
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    Dec 22, 2010 1:48 AM GMT
    So, ARE Beck and Palin Liberal? No?

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    Dec 22, 2010 2:00 AM GMT
    Of course not. We're so exceptional that even our mistakes are colossal, and we can just wave them away with our exceptionalism. Step aside, puny Canadian. icon_twisted.gif
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    Dec 22, 2010 2:01 AM GMT
    q1w2e3 saidOf course not. We're so exceptional that we even our mistakes are colossal, and we can just wave them away with our exceptionalism. Step aside, puny Canadian. icon_twisted.gif



    rofl!

    *steps aside and executes graceful and respectful bow*

    -Doug
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    Dec 22, 2010 2:06 AM GMT
    I thought this thread was gonna about eating white bread while on a wheat bread diet.
  • creature

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    Dec 22, 2010 3:06 AM GMT
    I wonder why Fearthefall has an obsession about race. It's a topic he keeps bringing up as of late.

    But about affirmative action... I believe that it was done to alleviate a segment of the population from continuing to feed into a cycle that existed as a result of legal private and public discrimination.
  • conservativej...

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    Dec 22, 2010 4:03 AM GMT
    Shelby defines white guilt in this way: "white guilt is the guilt of the unmarked toward the marked." Many people see slavery and events since its abolition as the producer of "the mark."

    I think white guilt as defined above is something one must want to assume. I further think it is an element in the psychology of individuals who feel they need a legitimate excuse to support many aspects of public policy which themselves are discrimnatory, i.e. "oh we must accept lower scores from this person because they are disadvantaged by the color of their skin."

    "Oh I must discriminate against the white candidate to relieve the effect of past discrimination against the black candidate. After all, we are guilty of discriminating." Equality? Hardly.

    One day, we'll surely need "black guilt."

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    Dec 22, 2010 4:42 AM GMT
    creature saidI wonder why Fearthefall has an obsession about race. It's a topic he keeps bringing up as of late.

    But about affirmative action... I believe that it was done to alleviate a segment of the population from continuing to feed into a cycle that existed as a result of legal private and public discrimination.




    FtF and the rest of his Teabagger/Republican buddies have been whining about "white guilt" a lot lately because the right-wing propaganda machine has been bringing up the catchphrase "white guilt" a lot lately.
    They're just PARROTing the BS they hear from their fellow right-wingers.

    Nothing has happened or changed regarding public policy to merit "white guilt" becoming an "issue".
    Unless the election of a black President counts.

    It's just another typical toxic divisive political game being played by the Repubs.
    They want to make race an issue in the 2012 election, and are trying out different ways of doing it.
    The Republican party's record of gross incompetence over the last decade makes it necessary for the Repubs to use ugly divisive BS "issues" to try to somehow be competitive in 2012.
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    Dec 22, 2010 4:46 AM GMT
    I stopped caring about slavery after the civil war.
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    Dec 22, 2010 5:29 AM GMT
    "White guilt" is what those who are incapable of it call empathy and compassion on the part of "white liberals." Since these white conservatives (in some cases, racists), cannot understand why we would betray our "race" by supporting people of color, they have invented a psychological "illness" to explain it. Of course, this "illness" has about as much validity and is based on as much science as those "psychologists" who claim they can cure gays.
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    Dec 22, 2010 8:41 AM GMT
    conservativejock saidShelby defines white guilt in this way: "white guilt is the guilt of the unmarked toward the marked." Many people see slavery and events since its abolition as the producer of "the mark." ...

    What I find interesting about this thread is it even after I posted the message above mentioning Shelby's role, there still followed messages consisting of "BS", "no empathy", etc. In other words, they were not able or willing to see an intellectual basis and discuss it on that level. I suspect one reason is it is not a topic that has been discussed on Huffington Post, so they were without talking points to cut and paste. All they were able to do is attack the OP or conservatives without a clue of the basis behind the OP.

    I don't know if the thread was intended to be an experiment, but it was successful. First the OP mentions a concept, but does not present references. So the OP is attacked, with some of the responses thinking the concept is only created by FTF, so open for attack. Then I provided a source indicating an intellectual basis for the OP. There were still the "BS" responses. It is indicative of the quality of responses and thinking demonstrated by some of the liberals here. (The only other point, before calling me arrogant or smug, reread the responses from many of the liberals here and see if they intelligently discussed the topic, e.g. discussed the kind of points that Shelby raised.)
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    Dec 22, 2010 9:36 AM GMT
    Speaking of White guilt, or guilt of being around Black people or whatever, whenever I refer to Black people like, "that Black guy the other day," or "so this fly Black chick came up to me," the people I'm talking to get all bashful as if a Black person is around and I can't say that word because they might overhear and for some bizarre reason that's bad. Fucking idiots. Meanwhile, sometimes when people tell a story that involves a Black guy they keep their voice down when saying "Black," and it's not even anything racist. Ugh, morons.
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    Dec 22, 2010 9:40 AM GMT
    _Sage_ saidAHowever, life is not a fair playing field, minorities who have had significantly less opportunities and representation due in part to closed elitism and unfair selection should, in my opinion, be given to opportunity to play on the same field, have the same chances of success as those who haven't had to face the same social adversity.


    The problem with that is that the pendulum has swung in the complete OPPOSITE direction and you have basically free tuition if you go to college and you're a Black Lesbian as opposed to a White hetero male.
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    Dec 22, 2010 2:49 PM GMT
    Rofl. I noticed all the conservatives on this topic are steering clear of the white guilt displayed by Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin in a post I did earlier on.

    Says a lot, doesn't it? icon_lol.gif

    -Doug