OBAMA SHOWED EM: Even David Gergen (republican and advisor to both sides agrees)....

  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Dec 22, 2010 9:15 PM GMT
    Sick to death of those right wingers here (or anywhere) who blast Obama for just bizarre reasons and quick to point out all his many deficiencies of him, his views, his background... etc.

    His last week.. quite impressive! I have much respect for David Gergen, always have.


    From CNN:



    Obama's stunning turnaround
    By David Gergen, CNN Senior Political Analyst

    December 22, 2010 3:39 p.m. EST
    STORY HIGHLIGHTS
    David Gergen: Voters must be asking, "Who really won in November?"
    Despite drubbing Democrats took, Obama bounced back and scored victories, he says
    Gergen says Obama adopted a different, more effective approach to governing
    Gergen: Challenges lie ahead, particularly over cutting government spending
    Editor's note: David Gergen is a senior political analyst for CNN and has been an adviser to four U.S. presidents. He is a professor of public service and director of the Center for Public Leadership at the Harvard Kennedy School.

    (CNN) -- Voters who flocked to the Republican banner seven weeks ago are probably scratching their heads, wondering, "Who really won in November?" After handing the president and Congressional Democrats the worst drubbing in more than half a century, they can only watch in disbelief as Obama has reeled off a series of unexpected victories.

    A new stimulus bill, repeal of "don't ask, don't tell," and now START -- who would have believed that this shirt-tail session of Congress would have been so triumphant? They call it "lame duck" but it was anything but lame.

    What happened? One answer, I would submit, is that the president and his team found a better approach to governing: Instead of relying on the Democratic caucus in each chamber to deliver, they built up coalitions of their own that swayed public opinion in their direction and gave them leverage in Congress.

    On the extension of tax breaks -- along with several other tax breaks the president wanted -- the White House cut a deal with Sen. Mitch McConnell and other Republicans. Liberal Democrats naturally cried foul, but the White House-GOP coalition sent a persuasive signal to the public that this was a reasonable compromise. Polls showed the public coming down in favor, and as night follows day, Congress voted the compromise into law. (Contrast how quickly the public turned against the health care reform when it was a Democrats-only bill.)

    On "don't ask, don't tell," and on START, the White House had a different, but equally formidable, coalition that helped to turn the tide in the president's direction. The fact that Bob Gates -- one of the most respected defense chiefs in history -- and the chair of the Joint Chiefs, along with the poll of service members, came out in favor of repealing DADT made a huge difference in swaying both public opinion and Congress.

    Even Bill Clinton did not bounce back from his mid-term defeat so quickly.

    --David Gergen

    RELATED TOPICS
    Barack Obama
    Mitch McConnell
    Robert Gates
    U.S. Congressional Politics
    U.S. Democratic Party
    START appeared all but dead until the president assembled a group of Republican heavyweights -- from George H.W. Bush and Kissinger to Baker and Shultz -- whose vocal support for the treaty reversed the momentum.

    In each case, there were also Senate stalwarts -- Joe Lieberman and Susan Collins on DADT, John Kerry on START -- who delivered, too.

    From my biased perspective, I also thought the president was more effective because he seemingly played these fights more from the background than the foreground. We heard about him each day making phone calls, bringing in votes, but we didn't see him so constantly at the podium. It worked!
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    Dec 22, 2010 9:34 PM GMT
    HndsmKansan saidSick to death of those right wingers here (or anywhere) who blast Obama for just bizarre reasons and quick to point out all his many deficiencies of him, his views, his background...

    From my biased perspective, ...

    There was significant bipartisan support for START, and a desire among some Republicans to work together in areas they believe it is the right thing to do. No surprise and not necessarily a feather in Obama's cap. As far as bouncing back, all the media lap dogs taking Krauthamer's "comeback kid" slogan and running with it in a fit of wishful thinking.

    He's no Bill Clinton, not by a long shot. When Clinton moved to the center, he tried to make both sides feel good. What did Obama do when he had to capitulate and accept the Bush tax extensions? He pissed everyone off, called the left "sanctimonious", the right "hostage takers", and came across as angry, petulant, and non-presidential. He also challenged the Republicans to combat.

    You can buy into interpreting a couple of bills being passed into law as invalidating the voter discontent that was reflected a few weeks ago. The more loyal Democrats buy that, the easier their graves will be to dig in 2012.
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    Dec 22, 2010 10:02 PM GMT
    This only happened because the LCR successfully sued in court. That forced O's hand. Add on top the loss of control in the House and he had no choice but to get it done now. Otherwise, if it had been left up to O, we'd all still be sitting with are thumbs up our butts waiting for the repeal until October of 2012.

    Plus, don't forget DADT was already gone by court order. Pure, clean, and simple. No certification. No fucking military "implementation." And our savior, O, swooped in to snatch defeat from the Jaws of Victory. No, my fine feathered friends, O did us no favors and did all he could to screw us over. IMHO, he's anti-gay at heart.

    And he has declared himself against Gay marriage. He's a political opportunist bigot.
  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Dec 23, 2010 1:07 PM GMT
    socalfitness said
    HndsmKansan saidSick to death of those right wingers here (or anywhere) who blast Obama for just bizarre reasons and quick to point out all his many deficiencies of him, his views, his background...

    From my biased perspective, ...

    There was significant bipartisan support for START, and a desire among some Republicans to work together in areas they believe it is the right thing to do. No surprise and not necessarily a feather in Obama's cap. As far as bouncing back, all the media lap dogs taking Krauthamer's "comeback kid" slogan and running with it in a fit of wishful thinking.

    He's no Bill Clinton, not by a long shot. .

    You can buy into interpreting a couple of bills being passed into law as invalidating the voter discontent that was reflected a few weeks ago. The more loyal Democrats buy that, the easier their graves will be to dig in 2012.



    I think it's you that it utilizing a "fit of wishful thinking".. do I think Obama will have an easy time over the next couple of years, certainly not. Your comment about "some republicans working together" is your take on what happened. I think only the moderates are open to working with the President.. but as we have seen, thats enough. While 2012 has yet to be written, Obama is off to a great start. Very pleased with events this week.
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    Dec 23, 2010 1:36 PM GMT
    I really wonder what's more important for some people - making sure the U.S. succeeds or making sure Obama fails.
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    Dec 23, 2010 2:05 PM GMT
    lissenup saidI really wonder what's more important for some people - making sure the U.S. succeeds or making sure Obama fails.

    If you think getting a couple of bills passed into law by an lame duck Congress is indicative of the next couple of years, I believe you will be greatly disappointed. The House will be very active pushing an agenda called for by the November vote, and the Senate will be greatly strengthened as well.

    Regarding U.S. succeeding / Obama failing: In my opinion, Obama's progressive agenda is very damaging to the country. The health care law, which I and most others polled think should be repealed will not be eradicated until he is out of office. A scenario I find most dangerous is if he does move to the center temporarily and gets things accomplished, enough to get a second term, he will revert back to the left, without an upcoming election to worry about. So I think ultimately from my perspective, the U.S. succeeding requires Obama to fail. According to Gallup polls, the U.S. remains a center-right country, fiscally. Obama has too much of a track record, has said too much, to be thought of as a centrist. Depending on the Republican nominee, Obama will have a difficult time getting reelected. I have seen too many European countries with progressive policies of varying degrees fail, and I don't want to see the same here. I will personally work and spend money to help ensure it doesn't happen, and I know others who will do the same. If that makes me a "right-winger" so be it.

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    Dec 23, 2010 2:21 PM GMT
    Just to be fair, Socalfitness, I know there are people who feel it's more important for the Republicans to fail.
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    Dec 23, 2010 3:32 PM GMT
    lissenup saidJust to be fair, Socalfitness, I know there are people who feel it's more important for the Republican to fail.

    Appreciate the comment. I have in the not too distant past voted for a Democratic Senator and Representative. I am just very passionate against the current policies favored by the Democrats.
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    Dec 23, 2010 3:46 PM GMT
    socalfitness said
    lissenup saidJust to be fair, Socalfitness, I know there are people who feel it's more important for the Republican to fail.

    Appreciate the comment. I have in the not too distant past voted for a Democratic Senator and Representative. I am just very passionate against the current policies favored by the Democrats.



    ..er, some democrats.

    If both sides would STOP painting each other with extremist brushes I think everything would be a whole lot better.

    -Doug
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    Dec 23, 2010 3:54 PM GMT
    meninlove said
    socalfitness said
    lissenup saidJust to be fair, Socalfitness, I know there are people who feel it's more important for the Republican to fail.

    Appreciate the comment. I have in the not too distant past voted for a Democratic Senator and Representative. I am just very passionate against the current policies favored by the Democrats.



    ..er, some democrats.

    If both sides would STOP painting each other with extremist brushes I think everything would be a whole lot better.

    -Doug


    I agree - it's time to stop fighting and work instead on making things better for all U.S. citizens. It shouldn't be about winning and losing...but I know I'm being way too optimistic and idealistic in writing this.
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    Dec 23, 2010 3:56 PM GMT
    lissenup said
    meninlove said
    socalfitness said
    lissenup saidJust to be fair, Socalfitness, I know there are people who feel it's more important for the Republican to fail.

    Appreciate the comment. I have in the not too distant past voted for a Democratic Senator and Representative. I am just very passionate against the current policies favored by the Democrats.



    ..er, some democrats.

    If both sides would STOP painting each other with extremist brushes I think everything would be a whole lot better.

    -Doug


    I agree - it's time to stop fighting and work instead on making things better for all U.S. citizens. It shouldn't be about winning and losing...but I know I'm being way too optimistic and idealistic in writing this.


    Hmmm...I'd say more like realistic and practical. icon_wink.gif
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    Dec 23, 2010 5:55 PM GMT
    One thing that I find funny is when the recent left-wing part of the Democratic Party gets power, they say "We won. Elections have consequences." When the Republicans get power, the Democrats say "Oh, we've got to compromise. We've got to work together for the good of the country."

    Active citizen involvement in the coming months will keep reminding Republicans that while compromise over details might be ok, there is no compromise of the fundamental positions that sent a powerful message in November. Remember, as they say elections have consequences.
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    Dec 23, 2010 10:06 PM GMT
    socalfitness saidOne thing that I find funny is when the recent left-wing part of the Democratic Party gets power, they say "We won. Elections have consequences." When the Republicans get power, the Democrats say "Oh, we've got to compromise. We've got to work together for the good of the country."

    Active citizen involvement in the coming months will keep reminding Republicans that while compromise over details might be ok, there is no compromise of the fundamental positions that sent a powerful message in November. Remember, as they say elections have consequences.


    Are you speaking to my previous comment? If so, I'm not a Republican or a Democrat. I don't have faith in either party.
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    Dec 23, 2010 10:26 PM GMT
    lissenup said... Are you speaking to my previous comment? If so, I'm not a Republican or a Democrat. I don't have faith in either party.

    Just triggered off your and the other comment about working together, but did not intend to imply any specific party affiliation of yours.
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    Dec 23, 2010 10:38 PM GMT
    socalfitness said
    lissenup said... Are you speaking to my previous comment? If so, I'm not a Republican or a Democrat. I don't have faith in either party.

    Just triggered off your and the other comment about working together, but did not intend to imply any specific party affiliation of yours.


    I don't fall into the camp of "all conservatives are evil" or "all liberals are evil" but I am getting fed up with both parties.

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    Dec 24, 2010 3:41 AM GMT
    socalfitness said
    HndsmKansan saidSick to death of those right wingers here (or anywhere) who blast Obama for just bizarre reasons and quick to point out all his many deficiencies of him, his views, his background...

    From my biased perspective, ...

    There was significant bipartisan support for START, and a desire among some Republicans to work together in areas they believe it is the right thing to do. No surprise and not necessarily a feather in Obama's cap. As far as bouncing back, all the media lap dogs taking Krauthamer's "comeback kid" slogan and running with it in a fit of wishful thinking.

    He's no Bill Clinton, not by a long shot. When Clinton moved to the center, he tried to make both sides feel good. What did Obama do when he had to capitulate and accept the Bush tax extensions? He pissed everyone off, called the left "sanctimonious", the right "hostage takers", and came across as angry, petulant, and non-presidential. He also challenged the Republicans to combat.

    You can buy into interpreting a couple of bills being passed into law as invalidating the voter discontent that was reflected a few weeks ago. The more loyal Democrats buy that, the easier their graves will be to dig in 2012.




    HAHAHAHAHAHA!
    Talk about "delusional".
    You reek of it.

    Check out the polls, buddy.
    The tax deal did NOT piss everybody off.
    A strong MAJORITY of Americans SUPPORT the OBAMA tax deal.
    A strong majority that's made up of moderates: Dems, Repubs, and Independents.
    A winning coalition of Americans.
    The SILENT MAJORITY - not the angry extremist radicals on either end of the political spectrum.

    And, FYI - YOU are the one who is coming off as "angry and petulant".
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    Dec 24, 2010 3:45 AM GMT
    Caslon17000 saidThis only happened because the LCR successfully sued in court. That forced O's hand. Add on top the loss of control in the House and he had no choice but to get it done now. Otherwise, if it had been left up to O, we'd all still be sitting with are thumbs up our butts waiting for the repeal until October of 2012.

    Plus, don't forget DADT was already gone by court order. Pure, clean, and simple. No certification. No fucking military "implementation." And our savior, O, swooped in to snatch defeat from the Jaws of Victory. No, my fine feathered friends, O did us no favors and did all he could to screw us over. IMHO, he's anti-gay at heart.

    And he has declared himself against Gay marriage. He's a political opportunist bigot.



    TOTAL BS.
    The most important factor in winning enough Republican votes to repeal DADT, was the review of the feasibility of repealing DADT that President Obama ordered the Pentagon to do.
    The positive results pushed enough Repubs to vote for repeal and it got passed.

    You're just a disgruntled Hillary supporter.
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    Dec 24, 2010 3:47 AM GMT
    lissenup saidI really wonder what's more important for some people - making sure the U.S. succeeds or making sure Obama fails.



    Right on.
    We've seen very clearly that "Country First" was nothing but an empty slogan.
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    Dec 24, 2010 8:47 AM GMT
    rickrick91 said
    socalfitness said
    HndsmKansan saidSick to death of those right wingers here (or anywhere) who blast Obama for just bizarre reasons and quick to point out all his many deficiencies of him, his views, his background...

    From my biased perspective, ...

    There was significant bipartisan support for START, and a desire among some Republicans to work together in areas they believe it is the right thing to do. No surprise and not necessarily a feather in Obama's cap. As far as bouncing back, all the media lap dogs taking Krauthamer's "comeback kid" slogan and running with it in a fit of wishful thinking.

    He's no Bill Clinton, not by a long shot. When Clinton moved to the center, he tried to make both sides feel good. What did Obama do when he had to capitulate and accept the Bush tax extensions? He pissed everyone off, called the left "sanctimonious", the right "hostage takers", and came across as angry, petulant, and non-presidential. He also challenged the Republicans to combat.

    You can buy into interpreting a couple of bills being passed into law as invalidating the voter discontent that was reflected a few weeks ago. The more loyal Democrats buy that, the easier their graves will be to dig in 2012.




    HAHAHAHAHAHA!
    Talk about "delusional".
    You reek of it.

    Check out the polls, buddy.
    The tax deal did NOT piss everybody off.
    A strong MAJORITY of Americans SUPPORT the OBAMA tax deal.
    A strong majority that's made up of moderates: Dems, Repubs, and Independents.
    A winning coalition of Americans.
    The SILENT MAJORITY - not the angry extremist radicals on either end of the political spectrum.

    And, FYI - YOU are the one who is coming off as "angry and petulant".

    You incorrectly stated what I said. It is true that a majority do support the tax deal. What I stated was Obama pissed off both sides and acting angry and petulant by his comments on the deal. "He pissed everyone off, called the left "sanctimonious", the right "hostage takers", and came across as angry, petulant, and non-presidential. He also challenged the Republicans to combat."
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Dec 24, 2010 11:10 AM GMT
    Yes - David Gergen is a man who knows what he is talking about
    and I do agree that this Obama is more strong willed and more of the Obama that we elected
    but I won't hold my breath waiting for the 112th Congress to convene
    Hopefully he learned a lesson and will be .... as he calls it "persistent" in the face of republican opposition
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    Dec 24, 2010 4:11 PM GMT
    jprichva said
    socalfitness saidYou can buy into interpreting a couple of bills being passed into law as invalidating the voter discontent that was reflected a few weeks ago. The more loyal Democrats buy that, the easier their graves will be to dig in 2012.

    The Tea Party is already furious because their own candidates are hiring lobbyists to run their offices. The gay donors will return to the Democrats in force because DADT was repealed. The public is sick of Boner already and he isn't even Speaker yet.

    Think you guys managed to demonize Pelosi (because she was so effective)? Wait until you see what mincemeat the Democrats make of Boner. Oh, and of course the out-of-control right-wing loonyfest that will be the Republican nomination race in 2011 and 2012.

    The Dems will pick up seats in 2012, and may be able to win back the House.

    You can enjoy your own predictions, but the progressive agenda of the left wing of the Democrats is sooooo yesterday. The Democrats in the House being mostly from that wing have been marginalized. The only way the Democrats can come back is they become more moderate. I think they will eventually.
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    Dec 24, 2010 6:10 PM GMT
    jprichva said
    socalfitness said
    jprichva said
    socalfitness saidYou can buy into interpreting a couple of bills being passed into law as invalidating the voter discontent that was reflected a few weeks ago. The more loyal Democrats buy that, the easier their graves will be to dig in 2012.

    The Tea Party is already furious because their own candidates are hiring lobbyists to run their offices. The gay donors will return to the Democrats in force because DADT was repealed. The public is sick of Boner already and he isn't even Speaker yet.

    Think you guys managed to demonize Pelosi (because she was so effective)? Wait until you see what mincemeat the Democrats make of Boner. Oh, and of course the out-of-control right-wing loonyfest that will be the Republican nomination race in 2011 and 2012.

    The Dems will pick up seats in 2012, and may be able to win back the House.

    You can enjoy your own predictions, but the progressive agenda of the left wing of the Democrats is sooooo yesterday. The Democrats in the House being mostly from that wing have been marginalized. The only way the Democrats can come back is they become more moderate. I think they will eventually.

    Your odd self-assurance reminds me of the famous line from Pauline Kael, who when Richard Nixon won the presidency in 1968, asked in bewilderment, "How could that be right? No one I know voted for him!"

    Despite your patronizing about how un-with-it it is to be a liberal, I suggest that it's only un-with-it in your circles.


    And the mystery of what I have Socal blocked is brought to light.
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Dec 24, 2010 6:38 PM GMT
    You can enjoy your own predictions, but the progressive agenda of the left wing of the Democrats is sooooo yesterday. The Democrats in the House being mostly from that wing have been marginalized. The only way the Democrats can come back is they become more moderate. I think they will eventually.

    Strange .... but whenever Obama and the Democrats pass more liberal legislation they get a boost in their ratings .... just sayin'

    and the republicans get mud in their face

    You like being the lachies for the wealthy ? and the anti-gay
    party that denies healthcare to first responders ?
    No real need to answer ---- that was more rhetorical than something I needed information on
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    Dec 24, 2010 7:10 PM GMT
    rickrick91 said
    Caslon17000 saidThis only happened because the LCR successfully sued in court. That forced O's hand. Add on top the loss of control in the House and he had no choice but to get it done now. Otherwise, if it had been left up to O, we'd all still be sitting with are thumbs up our butts waiting for the repeal until October of 2012.

    Plus, don't forget DADT was already gone by court order. Pure, clean, and simple. No certification. No fucking military "implementation." And our savior, O, swooped in to snatch defeat from the Jaws of Victory. No, my fine feathered friends, O did us no favors and did all he could to screw us over. IMHO, he's anti-gay at heart.

    And he has declared himself against Gay marriage. He's a political opportunist bigot.



    TOTAL BS.
    The most important factor in winning enough Republican votes to repeal DADT, was the review of the feasibility of repealing DADT that President Obama ordered the Pentagon to do.
    The positive results pushed enough Repubs to vote for repeal and it got passed.

    You're just a disgruntled Hillary supporter.

    Wrong. I voted for O.
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    Dec 24, 2010 7:43 PM GMT
    jprichva said
    socalfitness said
    jprichva said
    socalfitness saidYou can buy into interpreting a couple of bills being passed into law as invalidating the voter discontent that was reflected a few weeks ago. The more loyal Democrats buy that, the easier their graves will be to dig in 2012.

    The Tea Party is already furious because their own candidates are hiring lobbyists to run their offices. The gay donors will return to the Democrats in force because DADT was repealed. The public is sick of Boner already and he isn't even Speaker yet.

    Think you guys managed to demonize Pelosi (because she was so effective)? Wait until you see what mincemeat the Democrats make of Boner. Oh, and of course the out-of-control right-wing loonyfest that will be the Republican nomination race in 2011 and 2012.

    The Dems will pick up seats in 2012, and may be able to win back the House.

    You can enjoy your own predictions, but the progressive agenda of the left wing of the Democrats is sooooo yesterday. The Democrats in the House being mostly from that wing have been marginalized. The only way the Democrats can come back is they become more moderate. I think they will eventually.

    Your odd self-assurance reminds me of the famous line from Pauline Kael, who when Richard Nixon won the presidency in 1968, asked in bewilderment, "How could that be right? No one I know voted for him!"

    Despite your patronizing about how un-with-it it is to be a liberal, I suggest that it's only un-with-it in your circles.



    NICE comment.
    TRULY laugh-out-loud funny.