Straight Troops Must Shower With Gays, Says DOD Working Group--‘Gay Men Have Learned to Avoid Making Heterosexuals Feel Uncomfortable or Threatened in Situations Such as This’

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    Dec 23, 2010 1:41 AM GMT
    http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/military-should-expressly-prohibit-heter
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    Dec 23, 2010 6:08 AM GMT
    reading the comments underneath that article really makes my stomach twitch.

    From now on Im excluding the US from my definition of the 'civilized world'.

    Just read that crap, it's sickening. No wonder the US and the Saudis get along so well, they're pretty much at the same level.
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    Dec 23, 2010 6:22 AM GMT
    Haven't they been showering, sleeping, and shitting in the same facilities for years?
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    Dec 23, 2010 6:23 AM GMT
    MuchMoreThanMuscle saidTazo, I think you just get sickened by your own tendency to belligerently overreact to what you observe. Just let it go and take a deep breath.

    People are going to take time to adjust. Assuming that no problems arise with making DADT a thing of the pass I would imagine that in a few short years no one will care and we will be past this.


    Not "people". This is "people in the US". As much as I would like that not to make any difference, it obviously does.

    So who is overreacting here? Me, or these people who claim that a bunch of gay guys in the army will be the "end of the nation". Did you actually read those comments, or did you just wanna say something belittling to me?

    At the end of the day, I don't care mate - it's your country, not mine.
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    Dec 23, 2010 6:25 AM GMT
    Tazo995 saidreading the comments underneath that article really makes my stomach twitch.

    From now on Im excluding the US from my definition of the 'civilized world'.

    Just read that crap, it's sickening. No wonder the US and the Saudis get along so well, they're pretty much at the same level.


    oooooouuuuch

    Our politicians are our worst people and they suggested these type of studies. Some politicians aren't so bad, but more often they cave or appeal to the worst of us Americans.
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    Dec 23, 2010 6:42 AM GMT
    Tazo995 said
    MuchMoreThanMuscle saidTazo, I think you just get sickened by your own tendency to belligerently overreact to what you observe. Just let it go and take a deep breath.

    People are going to take time to adjust. Assuming that no problems arise with making DADT a thing of the pass I would imagine that in a few short years no one will care and we will be past this.


    Not "people". This is "people in the US". As much as I would like that not to make any difference, it obviously does.

    So who is overreacting here? Me, or these people who claim that a bunch of gay guys in the army will be the "end of the nation". Did you actually read those comments, or did you just wanna say something belittling to me?

    At the end of the day, I don't care mate - it's your country, not mine.


    I think the point was that not everyone in the US feels this way. Of course those few who are insanely passionate about any issue are going to be the ones who write nasty, hateful comments. However, most people just don't care enough about gays showering with straights to take the time to write anything. That's the take away: only a small minority actually give a damn. Don't judge an entire country and all its citizens based on the comments of a few pieces of trash. Aren't we gays always the ones demanding people not stereotype us based on the actions of the few?
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    Dec 23, 2010 6:46 AM GMT
    Unfortunately, there will be fights, assault, and backlash as a result of the repeal. Such is the case with any civil rights movement. The formerly and currently serving gay soldiers were brave enough to navigate a landscape fraught with hatred and oppression.

    Tazo995: You raise a very valid concern over the attitudes left in the comments of the article. As you are surely aware, many of those comments represent the extremes, not a normal sample of the population. Every nation goes through growing pains. Both Canada and the US are still essentially adolescent nations. A quick Internet search on civil rights in Canada reveals that Ukrainian Canadians were jailed during World War I and forced to do hard labor for the jails in which they were imprisoned. Even in 1999, schools in Ontario appear religiously biased. "The United Nations Human Rights Committee condemned Canada and Ontario for having violated the equality provisions (Article 26) of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights. The Committee restated its concerns on November 2, 2005, when it published its Concluding Observations regarding Canada's fifth periodic report under the Covenant. The Committee observed that Canada had failed to "adopt steps in order to eliminate discrimination on the basis of religion in the funding of schools in Ontario." -- Wikipedia article: "Human rights in Canada"

    Similarly to We now view the "separate but equal" laws in the US prior to the 1960s as barbaric, ignorant and discriminatory. But it seemed like a good idea to a lot of people at the time. So while we view DADT as barbaric, ignorant and discriminatory, there are a lot of people who have been taught that homosexuals are evil, perverted people and to be regarded as dangerous. The best thing we can do is continue to push forward.

    As a final note, I'd be interested in having the DOD conduct research to determine how many service members feel uncomfortable serving, showering, or rooming with someone of a different ethnic background than theirs. I estimate there would be a strong correlation with the study in the article.
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    Dec 23, 2010 6:48 AM GMT
    Tazo995 saidreading the comments underneath that article really makes my stomach twitch.
    From now on Im excluding the US from my definition of the 'civilized world'.
    Just read that crap, it's sickening. No wonder the US and the Saudis get along so well, they're pretty much at the same level.


    That's why I never bother reading them.
    Just your usual /bigoted/ Americans.
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    Dec 23, 2010 6:48 AM GMT
    BlueBlur said
    Tazo995 said
    MuchMoreThanMuscle saidTazo, I think you just get sickened by your own tendency to belligerently overreact to what you observe. Just let it go and take a deep breath.

    People are going to take time to adjust. Assuming that no problems arise with making DADT a thing of the pass I would imagine that in a few short years no one will care and we will be past this.


    Not "people". This is "people in the US". As much as I would like that not to make any difference, it obviously does.

    So who is overreacting here? Me, or these people who claim that a bunch of gay guys in the army will be the "end of the nation". Did you actually read those comments, or did you just wanna say something belittling to me?

    At the end of the day, I don't care mate - it's your country, not mine.


    I think the point was that not everyone in the US feels this way. Of course those few who are insanely passionate about any issue are going to be the ones who write nasty, hateful comments. However, most people just don't care enough about gays showering with straights to take the time to write anything. That's the take away: only a small minority actually give a damn. Don't judge an entire country and all its citizens based on the comments of a few pieces of trash. Aren't we gays always the ones demanding people not stereotype us based on the actions of the few?



    Oh yea, I'm very well aware of that. That's not really my point.

    If you assume that across the entire population of the US, only a small minority hates gay people and cares enough about these kind of issues to make such a fuss about it, and you also assume that that section of the population isn't substantially larger than in any other western country (correct me if I'm wrong here, but that's what you're saying right?) - then the fact that this hating segment yields such an disproportionately large amount of power and actually is so keen on dedicating policy to it, is the disturbing part.

    In Canada or in Western Europe, if you as a politician would actually dedicate time to arguing why gay people do not deserve equal rights, it automatically lands you in the fringe, together with the hard core christians and neo-nazis. In the US you are just part of the political mainstream.

    That's what I mean.
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    Dec 23, 2010 6:50 AM GMT
    I just read this one in the comments.

    "Personally I dont care let the straight guys get blown up for our freedom...will stay home and go shopping..."

    I know I shouldn't be,but I can't stop laughing at this one. DAMN!
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    Dec 23, 2010 6:53 AM GMT
    Tazo995 saidreading the comments underneath that article really makes my stomach twitch.

    From now on Im excluding the US from my definition of the 'civilized world'.

    Just read that crap, it's sickening. No wonder the US and the Saudis get along so well, they're pretty much at the same level.

    Well, we all know how you Canadians act. It's no wonder you get along so well with Castro.

    sealmn002-cu3.jpg
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    Dec 23, 2010 6:55 AM GMT
    Caslon17000 said
    Tazo995 said

    Well, we all know how you Canadians act. It's no wonder you get along so well with Castro.

    sealmn002-cu3.jpg



    lol nice one. That one should be brought up more often, it's a big tarnish on the Canadian record.

    Maybe thats how they came up with the flag.

    "Look there John, those blood splatters are in the form of a maple leaf!"
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    Dec 23, 2010 7:12 AM GMT
    Tazo995 said
    Caslon17000 said
    Tazo995 said

    Well, we all know how you Canadians act. It's no wonder you get along so well with Castro.

    sealmn002-cu3.jpg



    lol nice one. That one should be brought up more often, it's a big tarnish on the Canadian record.

    Maybe thats how they came up with the flag.

    "Look there John, those blood splatters are in the form of a maple leaf!"


    Gimme a break, substitute the dead seals for the handgun victims of the US.... ya Canada is a horrible country. Wildlife is a resource that requires management, the target population for this type of seal is 4.1m, current population is 5.5m, yearly quotas for the hunt have been dropping.

    I suppose the few seconds these animals are subjected to during the hunting process is much more inhumane than what the millions of farmed chickens in the US endure for months before they are slaughtered. I dont think so, Caslon, clean up your own backyard before worrying about someone elses.

    Oh ya, have you heard, Gays can marry in Canada.


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    Dec 23, 2010 7:15 AM GMT
    yourname2000 said
    tallcanuck saidHaven't they been showering, sleeping, and shitting in the same facilities for years?


    this.



    Mmmhmmm!...icon_neutral.gif
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    Dec 23, 2010 7:29 AM GMT
    Wao Tazo .... you've caused quite a revolution here bro' .....
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    Dec 23, 2010 7:33 AM GMT
    art_mariobros saidWao Tazo .... you've caused quite a revolution here bro' .....


    Nah dude, that's no revolution... but every now and then it's always good to release a fox in the hen house
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    Dec 23, 2010 7:33 AM GMT
    MuchMoreThanMuscle saidSo, Tazo. Correct me if I am wrong but did you not post recently how you and your fellow countrymen felt no remorse whatsoever for making antisemitic comments/jokes? Did I not understand correctly?

    Since I am part Jewish I guess I could respond with the same repulsive tone if I were to experience this type of hate (speaking hypothetically if I were to visit wherever you are from) and not consider where you are from to be "civilized."

    There are other parts of the world hating each other and doing some very heinous things. Protestants and Catholics in Ireland hating and killing each other over stupid bullshit like religion and political conflict. Basque people partaking in violent terrorist acts simply because they are tired of supporting an entire country and want to break free. So they bomb school buses.

    For every problem you see wrong with America I can give you several problems I see in Europe. There is no euphoric problem free part of the world.

    You ridiculously make generalizations about all Americans. But if that were the case than we would not have Americans fighting for liberties such as doing away with DADT. You apparently dismiss what some Americans are fighting for.

    You also should realize that America is a huge country in comparison to small countries that comprise the European continent. It is not easy to have such a huge geographical land mass of people who will always live harmoniously. If small countries like Ireland and Spain have killed and blown each other up throughout recent history I think as Americans we have done a lot less damage to each other.

    Getting all riled up over people's comments on a web page. It is not worth getting your panties all wadded up. Those are nameless and faceless people. See if they are willing to go on the record and show their face and push their ideals. More than likely they will not.

    more than likely they will not. And i think you're right. Getting all riled up over stupid shit that people put in a wbsite, i mean, it's a website after all. It can take whatever you put in it often times without taking responsibility for the shit they write.
    I have to admit you make some sense on what you're explaining here.


    Tazo .... he's kinda right my friend



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    Dec 23, 2010 7:38 AM GMT
    MuchMoreThanMuscle saidAssuming that no problems arise with making DADT a thing of the pass I would imagine that in a few short years no one will care and we will be past this.



    I wouldn't be surprised if only a few, if any, real consequences erupt from the repeal. I think, if anything, this whole thing may have actually raised the level of respect within the military and most everybody will be on their best behavior and just tend to the job they are there to do.
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    Dec 23, 2010 7:42 AM GMT
    Tazo995 saidreading the comments underneath that article really makes my stomach twitch.

    From now on Im excluding the US from my definition of the 'civilized world'.

    Just read that crap, it's sickening. No wonder the US and the Saudis get along so well, they're pretty much at the same level.

    Agreed. Thank goodness we don't live in the States, hey? icon_eek.gif
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    Dec 23, 2010 7:42 AM GMT
    art_mariobros said
    MuchMoreThanMuscle saidSo, Tazo. Correct me if I am wrong but did you not post recently how you and your fellow countrymen felt no remorse whatsoever for making antisemitic comments/jokes? Did I not understand correctly?

    Since I am part Jewish I guess I could respond with the same repulsive tone if I were to experience this type of hate (speaking hypothetically if I were to visit wherever you are from) and not consider where you are from to be "civilized."

    There are other parts of the world hating each other and doing some very heinous things. Protestants and Catholics in Ireland hating and killing each other over stupid bullshit like religion and political conflict. Basque people partaking in violent terrorist acts simply because they are tired of supporting an entire country and want to break free. So they bomb school buses.

    For every problem you see wrong with America I can give you several problems I see in Europe. There is no euphoric problem free part of the world.

    You ridiculously make generalizations about all Americans. But if that were the case than we would not have Americans fighting for liberties such as doing away with DADT. You apparently dismiss what some Americans are fighting for.

    You also should realize that America is a huge country in comparison to small countries that comprise the European continent. It is not easy to have such a huge geographical land mass of people who will always live harmoniously. If small countries like Ireland and Spain have killed and blown each other up throughout recent history I think as Americans we have done a lot less damage to each other.

    Getting all riled up over people's comments on a web page. It is not worth getting your panties all wadded up. Those are nameless and faceless people. See if they are willing to go on the record and show their face and push their ideals. More than likely they will not.

    more than likely they will not. And i think you're right. Getting all riled up over stupid shit that people put in a wbsite, i mean, it's a website after all. It can take whatever you put in it often times without taking responsibility for the shit they write.
    I have to admit you make some sense on what you're explaining here.


    Tazo .... he's kinda right my friend





    Sure, he's right on the last 2 sentences, but I'm just not gonna bite into his demagogy. I don't cater to high horses.
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    Dec 23, 2010 7:42 AM GMT
    Tazo995 said
    BlueBlur said
    Tazo995 said
    MuchMoreThanMuscle saidTazo, I think you just get sickened by your own tendency to belligerently overreact to what you observe. Just let it go and take a deep breath.

    People are going to take time to adjust. Assuming that no problems arise with making DADT a thing of the pass I would imagine that in a few short years no one will care and we will be past this.


    Not "people". This is "people in the US". As much as I would like that not to make any difference, it obviously does.

    So who is overreacting here? Me, or these people who claim that a bunch of gay guys in the army will be the "end of the nation". Did you actually read those comments, or did you just wanna say something belittling to me?

    At the end of the day, I don't care mate - it's your country, not mine.


    I think the point was that not everyone in the US feels this way. Of course those few who are insanely passionate about any issue are going to be the ones who write nasty, hateful comments. However, most people just don't care enough about gays showering with straights to take the time to write anything. That's the take away: only a small minority actually give a damn. Don't judge an entire country and all its citizens based on the comments of a few pieces of trash. Aren't we gays always the ones demanding people not stereotype us based on the actions of the few?



    Oh yea, I'm very well aware of that. That's not really my point.

    If you assume that across the entire population of the US, only a small minority hates gay people and cares enough about these kind of issues to make such a fuss about it, and you also assume that that section of the population isn't substantially larger than in any other western country (correct me if I'm wrong here, but that's what you're saying right?) - then the fact that this hating segment yields such an disproportionately large amount of power and actually is so keen on dedicating policy to it, is the disturbing part.

    In Canada or in Western Europe, if you as a politician would actually dedicate time to arguing why gay people do not deserve equal rights, it automatically lands you in the fringe, together with the hard core christians and neo-nazis. In the US you are just part of the political mainstream.

    That's what I mean.


    I've got to say you made a lot of assumptions based on the few sentences I wrote. I made no comments or assumptions at all about comparing western countries' hateful populations. Sorry, I think you read far more into the post than was there. I was merely saying don't stereotype the whole based on a few. That's all.

    And considering a supermajority of our legislature voted to repeal DADT, our President supported it, our courts have been striking down anit-gay laws left and right, and our most recent public opinion polls showed that 75% of Americans favored allowing gays and lesbians to serve openly, I think you go too far in stating that anti-gay sentiment is the political mainstream here. Sure we’re a little slow in some areas, but we’ll get there. Neither of our countries is perfect, so there's no need to finger point.
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    Dec 23, 2010 7:45 AM GMT
    BlueBlur said
    Tazo995 said
    BlueBlur said
    Tazo995 said
    MuchMoreThanMuscle saidTazo, I think you just get sickened by your own tendency to belligerently overreact to what you observe. Just let it go and take a deep breath.

    People are going to take time to adjust. Assuming that no problems arise with making DADT a thing of the pass I would imagine that in a few short years no one will care and we will be past this.


    Not "people". This is "people in the US". As much as I would like that not to make any difference, it obviously does.

    So who is overreacting here? Me, or these people who claim that a bunch of gay guys in the army will be the "end of the nation". Did you actually read those comments, or did you just wanna say something belittling to me?

    At the end of the day, I don't care mate - it's your country, not mine.


    I think the point was that not everyone in the US feels this way. Of course those few who are insanely passionate about any issue are going to be the ones who write nasty, hateful comments. However, most people just don't care enough about gays showering with straights to take the time to write anything. That's the take away: only a small minority actually give a damn. Don't judge an entire country and all its citizens based on the comments of a few pieces of trash. Aren't we gays always the ones demanding people not stereotype us based on the actions of the few?



    Oh yea, I'm very well aware of that. That's not really my point.

    If you assume that across the entire population of the US, only a small minority hates gay people and cares enough about these kind of issues to make such a fuss about it, and you also assume that that section of the population isn't substantially larger than in any other western country (correct me if I'm wrong here, but that's what you're saying right?) - then the fact that this hating segment yields such an disproportionately large amount of power and actually is so keen on dedicating policy to it, is the disturbing part.

    In Canada or in Western Europe, if you as a politician would actually dedicate time to arguing why gay people do not deserve equal rights, it automatically lands you in the fringe, together with the hard core christians and neo-nazis. In the US you are just part of the political mainstream.

    That's what I mean.


    I've got to say you made a lot of assumptions based on the few sentences I wrote. I made no comments or assumptions at all about comparing western countries' hateful populations. Sorry, I think you read far more into the post than was there. I was merely saying don't stereotype the whole based on a few. That's all. And considering a supermajority of our legislature voted to repeal DADT, and our most recent public opinion polls showed that 75% of Americans favored allowing gays and lesbians to serve openly, I think you go too far in stating that anti-gay sentiment is the political mainstream here. Sure we’re a little slow in some areas, but we’ll get there. Neither of our countries is perfect, so there's no need to finger point.


    Oh, I'm sorry, you just wanted to play captain obvious.

    I thought you were actually interested in analyzing this interesting difference.

    My mistake.
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    Dec 23, 2010 7:50 AM GMT
    Tazo995 said
    Oh, I'm sorry, you just wanted to play captain obvious.

    I thought you were actually interested in analyzing this interesting difference.

    My mistake.


    And I can see you are only interested in playing captain asshole. My mistake for being civil and actually using facts instead of baseless personal opinions to make my arguments. I won't make the same mistake again. Go Canada.

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    Dec 23, 2010 8:35 AM GMT
    Barney Frank on the shower "issue":

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    Dec 23, 2010 9:21 AM GMT
    some asshole on the cnsnews site said homosexuality isn't the normal way of life, among a giant paragraph is slander. So I kindly replied with:

    "You know some people think the "normal way of life" is beating the shit out of homophobes who talk shit like yourself."