Internalized Homophobia

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    Mar 21, 2008 11:05 PM GMT
    We all know it's there. Screaming and shouting at the gay pride parade somewhow doesn't work for me.

    I can spot internalized homphobia in the things gay guys say. It's amazing, and sad, because if we all became smarter about this subject, we would be happier, and better able to truly enjoy all that hot sex that is out there, just waiting.

    And we would be a lot nicer with each other.

    I guess long ago, I decided that in order for me to be truly happy, I had to be very introspective and smart about my place in the world as a gay man. I couldn't just wake up one morning and yell..."I'M HERE, I'M QUEER, GET USED TO IT"! I had to understand internalized homophobia, in myself, and then set myself free.

    Internalized homophobia, and its aftermath, is all around us.....

    I could write a book about this.
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    Mar 21, 2008 11:09 PM GMT
    I agree we could be a lot nicer with each other. Pursuing sex can bring out the worse in people, gay and straight. The gay bar can be a very cruel place at times if you stand back and watch the interaction of people.

    I also find there is a lot of prejudice against men that don't fulfill the masculine mystique, or men of different ethnic backgrounds, even in cities as diverse as Toronto.

    It is no wonder some gay men by the time they are 30 are unhappy and bitter against other gay people.
  • Timbales

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    Mar 21, 2008 11:13 PM GMT
    define internalized homophobia
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    Mar 21, 2008 11:15 PM GMT
    I'll wait for the movie ... icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Mar 21, 2008 11:17 PM GMT
    Timberoo saiddefine internalized homophobia


    you have to define your own
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    Mar 21, 2008 11:20 PM GMT
    KissingPro said[quote][cite]Timberoo said[/cite]define internalized homophobia


    you have to define your own[/quote]


    what???? .... icon_eek.gif
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    Mar 21, 2008 11:22 PM GMT
    KissingPro said[quote][cite]Timberoo said[/cite]define internalized homophobia


    you have to define your own[/quote]

    Internalized H. is manifested in some things that are commonly associated with "gay lifestyle...or culture...or whatever".
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    Mar 21, 2008 11:26 PM GMT
    jbedwards saidI agree we could be a lot nicer with each other. Pursuing sex can bring out the worse in people, gay and straight. The gay bar can be a very cruel place at times if you stand back and watch the interaction of people.

    I also find there is a lot of prejudice against men that don't fulfill the masculine mystique, or men of different ethnic backgrounds, even in cities as diverse as Toronto.

    It is no wonder some gay men by the time they are 30 are unhappy and bitter against other gay people.


    Not all gay guys are bitter or unhappy by age 30 because there are men, at my age, with wisdom, who can help and serve as role models. That's where I think those with our shit together should help younger guys with what we know.
  • Menergy_1

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    Mar 21, 2008 11:29 PM GMT
    I'm confused. Does "internalized homophobia" as Kissing Pro describes it imply one must like/love everything about everybody to avoid being "homophobic" -- as in instances where you or I may personally find something that isn't a turn-on or a behavior that you or I just would never exhibit, even if we're all gay men?

    I don't grant that latitude to straight cultures, much less "embracing" every personal quirk in gay people I encounter.

    Maybe I'm being obtuse and misunderstanding an important point here. Help me out, please.
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    Mar 21, 2008 11:30 PM GMT
    And I got my chops busted for threading about last night's episode of Make Me a Super Model!

    I gotta track this thread.
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    Mar 21, 2008 11:31 PM GMT
    AbFab1 said
    Maybe I'm being obtuse and misunderstanding an important point here. Help me out, please.


    Oh dont ruin this .... icon_lol.gif
  • Timbales

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    Mar 21, 2008 11:41 PM GMT
    KissingPro said
    Internalized H. is manifested in some things that are commonly associated with "gay lifestyle...or culture...or whatever".


    so unless a gay man embraces all of those cliches and stereotypes, he's internally homophobic?
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    Mar 22, 2008 3:21 AM GMT
    You can tell when someone is dissing on nelly guys just to distance himself from them and try to come off as something he perceives as "better". I love watching it backfire though. In fact, I sometimes even call out guys who act like that. But of course it's all about their own insecurity, and I don't think it's a stretch to call it a result of internalized homophobia.
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    Mar 22, 2008 2:38 PM GMT
    kidcourageous: If you don't like reading people's opinions and ideas, why not master the "Art of Finding Something Else to Do"?
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    Mar 22, 2008 2:55 PM GMT
    No, it doesn't touch on anything other than: you don't KNOW ME, how can you judge me?

    You give yourself far too much credit.
  • Hunter9

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    Mar 22, 2008 2:56 PM GMT
    what was the point of this topic? there's absolutely not substance to the argument (what argument?)
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    Mar 22, 2008 2:57 PM GMT
    XRuggerATX saidIf you don't like reading people's opinions and ideas, why not master the "Art of Finding Something Else to Do"?


    wow...it's like you didn't even read my profile, and quickly inserted a knee jerk reaction without undersanding what i was saying...

    kinda proves my point......t
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    Mar 22, 2008 3:00 PM GMT
    I was addressing kidcourageous, but you went right to thinking I was slamming you. Hmm

    Anyway I just went back and put his name in there. Sorry for the confusion.
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    Mar 22, 2008 3:00 PM GMT
    KissingPro said[quote][cite]XRuggerATX said[/cite]If you don't like reading people's opinions and ideas, why not master the "Art of Finding Something Else to Do"?

    wow...it's like you didn't even read my profile, and quickly inserted a knee jerk reaction without undersanding what i was saying...
    kinda proves my point......t[/quote]

    I saw your profile, as I do everyone who post a thread, before I made a response. Your profile has nothing on it. If anything, you read my response without understanding it, and left of knee jerk response. Is it lonely up your pedestal?
    K.I.S.S.
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    Mar 22, 2008 3:03 PM GMT
    I'm really sorry I chimed in on this thread now. I thought I had made a thoughful response, but some people, well, they just...


    ahh f*ck it.
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    Mar 22, 2008 3:04 PM GMT
    Hunter9 saidwhat was the point of this topic? there's absolutely not substance to the argument (what argument?)


    there is no argument.......my original point was saying that there is a lot of internalized homophobis thst gay guys casrry around with them that is manifested in some behavior and in some things that we all take for granted as part of popular gay culture.

    some guys here seem pretty pissed about the subject...you gotta why these guys get so annoyed.
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    Mar 22, 2008 3:11 PM GMT
    KissingPro said[quote][cite]Hunter9 said[/cite]what was the point of this topic? there's absolutely not substance to the argument (what argument?)


    there is no argument.......my original point was saying that there is a lot of internalized homophobis thst gay guys casrry around with them that is manifested in some behavior and in some things that we all take for granted as part of popular gay culture.

    some guys here seem pretty pissed about the subject...you gotta why these guys get so annoyed.[/quote]

    OK BOYS...sounds like you can't handle it...i will let it go....just wanted thoughtful opinion about the subject..but, according to some, there is no subject.

    I disagree, but perhaps it's better to sweep the whole non subject under the rug and talk about something more relevant and interesting so nobody feels uncomfortable
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    Mar 22, 2008 3:22 PM GMT
    Every person born eventually carries some sort of baggage with them that they could really do without.

    My straight male and female friends are just as guilty as my gay friends and myself.
    Girls at the bar treat each other with as much disdain as any gay guy I have seen.
    Straight men puff their feathers just as much as gay men... in fact, most bullies I remember in school were straight guys, not homosexual men. Being born gay does not automatically entail that you are going to be any more maladjusted and self loathing then the next guy or girl. I always thought most gay men were great, I still do.
    Spend your days and nights looking for internalized homophobia and you will find it. Spend your time cultivating meaningful relationships and you will just as easily find those. I don't think any of this is all that tricky. It is disheartening to hear grown men blame all of their problems on being gay or gender roles or shame about how other gay men live their lives. Emotional immaturity is just emotional immaturity.

    However, I am glad you were able to set yourself free after some thoughtful introspection.
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    Mar 22, 2008 3:27 PM GMT
    This could have been a good thread. I like the topic. But here's how it has been screwed up:

    Your writing leaves something to be desired, and most of us are a bit confused at the point, argument, or question that drove the thread.

    You take every reply as an affront to your efforts. You assume anger when everyone knows emotion cannot really be determined on a glowing screen displaying text. KidCourageous disclosed some anxiety, but he didn't even really say who it was guided to. I had to read it three times to see that he was addressing the replies, not the o.p.. Well, I think.

    Maybe you should delete the whole thread and reintroduce the subject more thoughtfully and with a bit more of an open mind regarding the vast array of responses you'll receive.

    Or maybe with your very short time on this site you decided to come in right away and try to cast dispersions about how we communicate in these forums. I can think of better ways to change the community for the better.
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    Mar 22, 2008 3:34 PM GMT
    mnjock2003 saidEvery person born eventually carries some sort of baggage with them that they could really do without.

    My straight male and female friends are just as guilty as my gay friends and myself.
    Girls at the bar treat each other with as much disdain as any gay guy I have seen.
    Straight men puff their feathers just as much as gay men... in fact, most bullies I remember in school were straight guys, not homosexual men. Being born gay does not automatically entail that you are going to be any more maladjusted and self loathing then the next guy or girl. I always thought most gay men were great, I still do.
    Spend your days and nights looking for internalized homophobia and you will find it. Spend your time cultivating meaningful relationships and you will just as easily find those. I don't think any of this is all that tricky. It is disheartening to hear grown men blame all of their problems on being gay or gender roles or shame about how other gay men live their lives. Emotional immaturity is just emotional immaturity.

    I agree with everything you said. There have been some things that I see in the gay world, and society in general, that i don't find fun, healthy or positive. Recognizing those things deosn't mean spending my days and nights looking for it, nor is it blaming others....in fact, it's taking responsibility for my own life. Cultivating good freindships is important. All I am saying is that due to the way things are, we are all exposed to, and perhaps brought up with negative stuff about being gay...somehow it seeps in. Sometimes that negative stuff can become part of who you are, without even realizing it. Recognizing that stuff and dealing with it,and moving on is good.
    However, I am glad you were able to set yourself free after some thoughtful introspection.