Strange argument against DADT.

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    Dec 27, 2010 4:55 AM GMT
    I thought this argument was unique.

    A woman caller to a radio show was upset with DADT because it was being used as a way to get out of the army by admitting you were gay. After so many willing people took this route the armed forces started asking for proof of them being gay. She didn't feel that people should be ducking their duty to their country.

    Do you want people in the armed forces who don't want to be there? Honestly though there has to be a different way to leave the armed forces other than using the gay card.
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    Dec 27, 2010 7:09 PM GMT
    _Zox_ saidI thought this argument was unique.

    A woman caller to a radio show was upset with DADT because it was being used as a way to get out of the army by admitting you were gay. After so many willing people took this route the armed forces started asking for proof of them being gay. She didn't feel that people should be ducking their duty to their country.

    Do you want people in the armed forces who don't want to be there? Honestly though there has to be a different way to leave the armed forces other than using the gay card.


    It's not really an argument. I think there have been reports that this has happened. I'm not sure about the numbers, but my guess is that it is probably a very small minority of gays and lesbians who did this. I think most people serving are committed to service. I guess if someone has the stats, they'll post them.

    The reports basically claim that some gay and lesbian people enroll in the armed forces so they can receive government benefits, including partial or full tuition covered at higher learning institutions for their service. Once they completed their education, or if they are called to the battlefield, the reports claim that the individuals suddenly come forward and "tell" about their sexual orientation so that the armed forces will have no choice but to discharge them from duty. In short, the claims allege that some gays and lesbians only sign up for service to get a benefit without ever intending to serve.

    Some that were against DADT, for their own reasons, used these reports and claims to criticize the policy. They argued that the military should make discharged members in those scenarios pay back all the tuition, or benefits they received. But I don't think they were successful because even if the claims were true, it wouldn't be so easy to prove intent.
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    Dec 27, 2010 8:06 PM GMT
    I think the argument is that STRAIGHT people said/pretended they were gay so that they could get out of the military.
    People who signed up and then realized that they weren't really up for boot camp and army life.
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    Dec 27, 2010 8:21 PM GMT
    _Zox_ saidI thought this argument was unique.

    A woman caller to a radio show was upset with DADT because it was being used as a way to get out of the army by admitting you were gay. After so many willing people took this route the armed forces started asking for proof of them being gay. She didn't feel that people should be ducking their duty to their country.

    Do you want people in the armed forces who don't want to be there? Honestly though there has to be a different way to leave the armed forces other than using the gay card.

    If the lady thought it thru she would see that the policy was a catch-22.

    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/1290047
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    Dec 27, 2010 8:29 PM GMT
    Caesarea4 saidI think the argument is that STRAIGHT people said/pretended they were gay so that they could get out of the military.
    People who signed up and then realized that they weren't really up for boot camp and army life.


    Yes that was the argument.
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    Dec 27, 2010 8:32 PM GMT
    Old news. That excuse was used LONG before DADT.

    1418403680.jpg
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    Dec 27, 2010 8:43 PM GMT
    paulflexes saidOld news. That excuse was used LONG before DADT.

    1418403680.jpg


    True. It is old news, however it was still a strange argument against DADT. Then again the reason sounded more like a Major Burns paradox.
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    Dec 27, 2010 9:58 PM GMT
    This argument perhaps makes more sense when an involuntary draft is in effect.

    When I was a US Army Officer, and was back in college taking another degree, one of my professors told me this story:

    He'd been drafted in 1968, a year before I myself had enlisted as a Private. He honestly told them he was homosexual, in answer to the pre-induction question we all had to answer back then. They ignored his answer, apparently thinking he was lying to avoid being sent to Vietnam.

    So he got shipped off to Basic Training at Fort Knox, where I was later to serve about a year later. And he told me he totally camped it up to the max, stories that had me doubling over in laugher. Instead of despising him I admired his courage, and his truthfulness in being who he was. My own career as an Officer didn't prevent me from hating the treatment he had received.

    He was finally Dishonorably Discharged, the only way gays were released from the US military in those days. It didn't prevent him from going on to get his PhD, becoming a well-known author, and having a career in education as a senior university administrator, that he does to this day.

    If you read my stuff here you know that military service is the only thing of distinction or merit I've done with my life. But I've also always felt that not everyone is cut out for the military, and no one should not be compelled to serve when they are better suited to other things. It's an honor to serve, but no shame if you don't. (Except for those few clowns here who spout about the military without any real experience or knowledge)

    I cheered his story of beating the system, even while I still wore a uniform myself, and continued to wear it proudly for many more years. The Army was for me, it wasn't for him. I was glad he got out of it, and became a success in a different field.

    In the future, if the DADT repeal sticks (and I hope it does, though I've expressed my doubts here), I hope you all realize that should a US draft ever be reactivated that gays will not be exempt this time. This sword cuts both ways, and perhaps that lady on the radio show was more correct than she knew.
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    Dec 28, 2010 1:22 AM GMT
    I've long said that there will never be equalization between the genders unless and until women accept having to register for Selective Services by age 18 like males are required or be denied many things by the government, like various federal programs and benefits, including student loans, job training, federal employment, and naturalization.


    They usually shut up about then.
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    Dec 31, 2010 2:01 AM GMT
    If a lot of the servicemen leave as many have threatened to do if
    DADT is repealed, a draft is very likely.
  • MuscleComeBac...

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    Dec 31, 2010 2:08 AM GMT
    jockgymboy saidIf a lot of the servicemen leave as many have threatened to do if
    DADT is repealed, a draft is very likely.


    Good, let them leave. We need integrity in our armed services, and to leave service or career for this reason is evidence of being made of anything BUT the right stuff.
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    Dec 31, 2010 2:14 AM GMT
    MuscleComeBack said
    jockgymboy saidIf a lot of the servicemen leave as many have threatened to do if
    DADT is repealed, a draft is very likely.


    Good, let them leave. We need integrity in our armed services, and to leave service or career for this reason is evidence of being made of anything BUT the right stuff.

    Agreed. And who's reporting that "many" will leave? I haven't heard this, nor believe it. Is this some FAUX News propaganda? If Beck or O'Reilly said it, or that bloated fatman Limbaugh on radio, you know it's false.
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    Dec 31, 2010 2:14 AM GMT
    It's signed into law, but actually implementing it is going to be real hard with a republican controlled house and many democratic seats in senate being lost.
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    Dec 31, 2010 2:17 AM GMT
    its illegal to pretend to be gay to be discharged from the military. its in the last 2 part clause of the sexual conduct policy. i guess thats void now anyways, though. anyone who does this is a bag of shit.
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    Dec 31, 2010 2:25 AM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    MuscleComeBack said
    jockgymboy saidIf a lot of the servicemen leave as many have threatened to do if
    DADT is repealed, a draft is very likely.


    Good, let them leave. We need integrity in our armed services, and to leave service or career for this reason is evidence of being made of anything BUT the right stuff.

    Agreed. And who's reporting that "many" will leave? I haven't heard this, nor believe it. Is this some FAUX News propaganda? If Beck or O'Reilly said it, or that bloated fatman Limbaugh on radio, you know it's false.




    It's in the survey that was taken of the servicemen. There was 70% opposition in the marines and the results that were reported in the other divisions was slanted. I have a high school friend in the marines that thinks it's not going to get implemented for a long time, until we are out of war, which doesn't appear to be real soon. He says there is too much opposition to implement it right now.











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    Dec 31, 2010 2:30 AM GMT
    blackstrap saidits illegal to pretend to be gay to be discharged from the military. its in the last 2 part clause of the sexual conduct policy. i guess thats void now anyways, though. anyone who does this is a bag of shit.




    it's not really void yet and gays are being warned not to come out yet because it hasn't been implemented into policy yet and gays are still subject to being discharged.
  • Syphon

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    Dec 31, 2010 2:45 AM GMT
    The military should have people in it who actually want to be there. So if there were a draft, then yes, this argument would be valid.

    Although I know if I were ever forced into the military I would use every card in my pocket to get out of it. The last thing that's worth dying over is a hunk of land.
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    Dec 31, 2010 2:47 AM GMT
    Syphon saidThe military should have people in it who actually want to be there. So if there were a draft, then yes, this argument would be valid.

    Although I know if I were ever forced into the military I would use every card in my pocket to get out of it. The last thing that's worth dying over is a hunk of land.


    yeah especially if that hunk of land is canada. ps i wouldnt worry about a draft any time soon, buddy.
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    Dec 31, 2010 2:50 AM GMT
    jockgymboy said
    blackstrap saidits illegal to pretend to be gay to be discharged from the military. its in the last 2 part clause of the sexual conduct policy. i guess thats void now anyways, though. anyone who does this is a bag of shit.




    it's not really void yet and gays are being warned not to come out yet because it hasn't been implemented into policy yet and gays are still subject to being discharged.



    i dont get this world that everyone seems to be living in that all these gay guys have been prepping a giant coming out party as soon as this was repealed. who the fuck would wanna be open in the military? really. i know its a hugely important thing for some people to be gay and thats their whole identity but that isnt the case for everyone. and lots of people - and this isnt me talking out of my ass or basing this on nothing - would rather have their identity be 'marine' or 'soldier' or 'sailor' or whatever the case may be because thats why they chose what they are doing...knowing at least a little bit of what they were walking into. but what do i know.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 31, 2010 3:12 AM GMT
    well if you joined the military you have sign something or whatever stating that you are straight. If later you say you are gay you will get in trouble anyway because you are either lying then or when you signed up. so there would be repercussions because of the fact that the person lied
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    Dec 31, 2010 3:16 AM GMT
    jaminjunk saidwell if you joined the military you have sign something or whatever stating that you are straight. If later you say you are gay you will get in trouble anyway because you are either lying then or when you signed up. so there would be repercussions because of the fact that the person lied


    LOLWUT
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    Dec 31, 2010 3:21 AM GMT
    jockgymboy said
    Art_Deco said
    MuscleComeBack said
    jockgymboy saidIf a lot of the servicemen leave as many have threatened to do if
    DADT is repealed, a draft is very likely.


    Good, let them leave. We need integrity in our armed services, and to leave service or career for this reason is evidence of being made of anything BUT the right stuff.

    Agreed. And who's reporting that "many" will leave? I haven't heard this, nor believe it. Is this some FAUX News propaganda? If Beck or O'Reilly said it, or that bloated fatman Limbaugh on radio, you know it's false.

    It's in the survey that was taken of the servicemen. There was 70% opposition in the marines and the results that were reported in the other divisions was slanted. I have a high school friend in the marines that thinks it's not going to get implemented for a long time, until we are out of war, which doesn't appear to be real soon. He says there is too much opposition to implement it right now.

    And what is your view? What do you want? Have you served in uniform?

    And what is this "serviceMEN"? I thought women now served in the US military. Was this a poll taken of just the men?
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    Dec 31, 2010 3:34 AM GMT
    The red tape to carry out a discharge cause you're a homo (requires a Colonel/Captain at the minimum) is rediculous so its not going to happen to anyone any time soon.

    You can say you're a homo and they'll just laugh at you and tell you to get back to work. There are many many many other ways to get kicked out of the military.

    Once the repeal goes into effect, and you let the floodgates open, it would be a logistical and financial disaster to try and reverse it (cancel all the enlistments of people that were homos? Did anyone ask on the enlistment document?) and the republican house will realize that and/or the president would just veto it and/or the senate wouldn't pass it. Oh and the LCR court case would also be floating around.

    Lastly, DOMA still exists and is a greater problem than DADT ever was.

    PS: They'll never bring back the draft.... it would be political suicide for any politician. Unless something like a tunnel from China explodes from the ground in Kansas and their army comes streaming through, and even then we'll see.
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    Dec 31, 2010 3:40 AM GMT
    Trust me, there are far easier ways to get out of the armed forces these days.

    This is a non-problem.
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    Dec 31, 2010 3:42 AM GMT
    Mil8 saidTrust me, there are far easier ways to get out of the armed forces these days.

    This is a non-problem.

    Please tell us the easier ways to get out of the US armed forces, other than saying you are gay.