Why Gays & Lesbians should never argue scripture.

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    Jan 01, 2011 11:54 PM GMT
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rev-candace-chellewhodge/why-gays-and-lesbians-sho_b_801399.html


    A brief extract, from the full article at Huffington Post :

    "There are several reasons that gays and lesbians should never argue scripture.

    First, it's pointless and nobody wins. Those who are anti-gay have their authorities and scriptural interpretations and so do pro-gay people. No one wins a "they said, they said" argument because no one will believe the scholars from either side no matter what argument anyone makes.

    Secondly, arguing over scripture just hardens the opinions of both sides. Neither side is willing to give an inch. This is not a true dialogue, it's simply a contest of who can argue the longest, and usually the loudest. No one is convinced, and everyone leaves further entrenched in their own ideas, and usually angry. No education happens, and little, if any, compassion ever happens.

    Thirdly, the arguers on either side never share the same starting point on scripture. Those who are anti-gay are more likely to see the Bible as the infallible "Word of God" -- which means the words literally dripped from the lips of God through the pens of the scribes and onto the page. Each jot and tittle is God-breathed and never to be contradicted. (Never mind that much of the Bible is full of contradictions and much of it we disregard with impunity these days. Those sorts of inconveniences never actually apply to the argument around homosexuality.)

    Those who argue from the pro-gay side are generally those who see the Bible as inspired by God, but not the literal, infallible words of God. This means they are more open to different interpretations and approaches to scripture. Those who see the Bible as "God's literal word" only know one way to read any passage, and it's usually to back up their current beliefs about God, homosexuality or any other issue.

    The most important reason, however, that gays and lesbians should never, ever argue about scripture is because the Bible has nothing much to say about homosexuality. We have to remember that this is an ancient book. It was written at a time when people believed the world was flat and that the earth was in the middle of a three-tiered world with heaven above and hell below. It was written at a time when people believed that the whole of human reproduction was held in the sperm of a man and a woman was merely an incubator. Speaking of women, this was a time when they were seen as chattel -- property to be passed along from father to husband, from husband to brother and so on. It was written at a time when slavery was seen as God-ordained and animal sacrifice was the way to cleanse sins.

    In short, we cannot extract modern ideas from an ancient book. The writers of the Bible no more understood homosexuality than they understood that a spherical Earth orbited the sun. At most, we have a commentary on same-sex sexual behavior involving lust and abuse, but nothing -- pro or con -- about the modern concept of sexual orientation. We don't take the Bible's word for it that the earth is flat and women only incubate babies and contribute nothing else to the process. Why on earth would we take it as an authority on sexual orientation? "


    See the link for the full article.


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    Jan 02, 2011 2:50 AM GMT
    Did you know the Bible records the first instance of a nagging worman?

    It says "And Mary rode Joseph's ass all the way to Jerusalem".....icon_wink.gif
  • misternick

    Posts: 234

    Jan 02, 2011 2:54 AM GMT
    Good points.

    In my experience, the more I question and try to understand what I read, the more meaningful a source of comfort it becomes.

    I have a pretty benign use for the book, though... I think I'd suck at any sort of dispute on the matter.
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    Jan 02, 2011 3:27 AM GMT
    O no, I will argue my point !!! YOu will see I am right icon_wink.gif
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    Jan 02, 2011 3:30 AM GMT
    Nobody should argue scripture... it's like teaching a pig to sing (i.e., it wastes your time and annoys the pig)
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    Jan 02, 2011 3:31 AM GMT
    StudlyScrewRite said Did you know the Bible records the first instance of a nagging worman?

    It says "And Mary rode Joseph's ass all the way to Jerusalem".....icon_wink.gif


    lmao
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    Jan 02, 2011 5:04 AM GMT
    There's just as much prejudice amongst atheists, they just don't invoke nonexistent deities to justify their bigotry.

    I have met all types. Jamaicans who hate gays, gays who hate blacks, bisexuals who hate gays until they want to copulate with one. The fact is that people love to hate, especially if their own lives are somewhat lacking in fulfillment.
  • stee99

    Posts: 317

    Jan 02, 2011 6:10 AM GMT
    arguing over religion is basically the same as killing each other to see who has the best imaginary friend.
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    Jan 02, 2011 6:48 AM GMT
    Well, so far there are some wise and witty words in this thread, for sure.

    I would never argue with anyone who has fixed ideas of any kind. Furthermore, I would never argue with anyone who uses fixed ideas to spread hatred of others. Its a moot point altogether.

    You can very rarely unfix their ideas, you can only drive them into apathy by besting them in the argument, which may not be easy or even possible.

    Although, driving them down may become necessary to protect yourself and others from their hate and destruction, same as it was necessary to destroy Hitler in order to end WWII. No amount of education, argument or words of any kind could have changed him. It is a simple fact that it would have been necessary to remove him from all influence on society or kill him in order to acquire final safety from his oppression.

    It is the same with all forms of hate-mongering people no matter where they channel their hate, be it toward homosexuals, other races, animal rights, or anything else. If they find they cannot spread hate and destruction toward homosexuals, they will simply find another target.

    Since there is no current way to contain these types of people, the best way to handle them is to keep them out of your own life, do what you can to counter their hate-mongering with others who may become unduly influenced and to become educated about how to recognize them and deal with them.

    Most of them are very cowardly individuals. If they weren't, there would be no need to hate.
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    Jan 02, 2011 10:22 AM GMT
    I just skimmed the post but from what I read, I agree. For the most part, both sides have already decided, and both interpret the Bible in different ways.

    I am a Christian and I personally don't see the Bible as infallible. For me to argue with someone who believes the Bible is infallible would be a waste of time because of that fundamental difference.
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    Jan 02, 2011 10:26 AM GMT
    Kell_la saidWell, so far there are some wise and witty words in this thread, for sure.

    I would never argue with anyone who has fixed ideas of any kind. Furthermore, I would never argue with anyone who uses fixed ideas to spread hatred of others. Its a moot point altogether.

    You can very rarely unfix their ideas, you can only drive them into apathy by besting them in the argument, which may not be easy or even possible.

    Although, driving them down may become necessary to protect yourself and others from their hate and destruction, same as it was necessary to destroy Hitler in order to end WWII. No amount of education, argument or words of any kind could have changed him. It is a simple fact that it would have been necessary to remove him from all influence on society or kill him in order to acquire final safety from his oppression.

    It is the same with all forms of hate-mongering people no matter where they channel their hate, be it toward homosexuals, other races, animal rights, or anything else. If they find they cannot spread hate and destruction toward homosexuals, they will simply find another target.

    Since there is no current way to contain these types of people, the best way to handle them is to keep them out of your own life, do what you can to counter their hate-mongering with others who may become unduly influenced and to become educated about how to recognize them and deal with them.

    Most of them are very cowardly individuals. If they weren't, there would be no need to hate.


    But you're not talking about everyone who thinks homosexuality is wrong, right? You're just talking about those who are hateful?
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    Jan 02, 2011 10:58 AM GMT
    I agree. And I don't believe in invisible friends either.
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    Jan 03, 2011 7:36 PM GMT
    StudlyScrewRite said Did you know the Bible records the first instance of a nagging worman?

    It says "And Mary rode Joseph's ass all the way to Jerusalem".....icon_wink.gif

    QFT