My New Video: "Stereotypes, and How Gays Are Portrayed in Film"

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    Jan 07, 2011 7:44 AM GMT
    Hi Everyone,

    My name is Kyle, and I recently made a video discussing the issue of Stereotyping in the gay community, as well as the Film industry's portrayal of the LGBT community. I was hoping you guys would take a look at it. It may not be fantastic quality, but I think my points are still valid. Let me know what you think!

    Thank you!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EC4Tp04Un-o
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    Jan 07, 2011 8:17 AM GMT
    dear n00b,

    please edit your post by typing (but without any spaces):

    [ url ] (put your youtube homo video here) [ / url ]

    This way the internet retarded can click it to view it. Most of them don't understand copy+paste in new window.

    [EDIT] Good work! You will get along well with RJ members now. icon_biggrin.gif
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    Jan 07, 2011 8:20 AM GMT
    JAKEBENSON saiddear n00b,

    please edit your post by typing (but without any spaces):

    [ url ] (put your youtube homo video here) [ / url ]

    This way the internet retarded can click it to view it. Most of them don't understand copy+paste in new window.

    haha so funny
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    Jan 07, 2011 8:23 AM GMT
    JAKEBENSON saiddear n00b,

    please edit your post by typing (but without any spaces):

    [ url ] (put your youtube homo video here) [ / url ]

    This way the internet retarded can click it to view it. Most of them don't understand copy+paste in new window.


    I'm well aware of forum tags, I just didn't think it was particularly necessary. I'll edit it, if it makes you happy icon_wink.gif .
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    Jan 07, 2011 1:13 PM GMT
    kyledouglas521 said
    JAKEBENSON saiddear n00b,

    please edit your post by typing (but without any spaces):

    [ url ] (put your youtube homo video here) [ / url ]

    This way the internet retarded can click it to view it. Most of them don't understand copy+paste in new window.


    I'm well aware of forum tags, I just didn't think it was particularly necessary. I'll edit it, if it makes you happy icon_wink.gif .
    Nothing makes Jake happy unless his dick is being sucked; and even then he'll still bitch if you don't swallow. icon_razz.gif
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    Jan 07, 2011 1:38 PM GMT
    I think you have some good points. although one sentence was a bit odd I thought. that everyone should be perceived as straight until proven gay. not sure I'll agree to that, or that I'm even sure what you mean by it icon_lol.gif

    I have seen a few movies though that had gay characters who weren't solely defined by their sexuality.
    Like Willem Dafoe in the Boondock Saints or Val kilmer in Kiss Kiss Bang Bang.

    but in some respects there's quite a long way to go. On danish tv there is this dating show that has gay specials now and then. All the contestants are stereotypical, flamboyant, bitchy queens. And the host of the show just makes all these stupid ignorant remarks. not directly homophobic but it's oozing with prejudice and stereotyping (let's laugh at the funny prancing gays kinda show). So in the end it's only the compulsively attention seeking annoying guys who sign up for the show, because no normal person would want to be part of such a mockery.
    (it's in danish but you don't have to understand what's being said to get the idea. just watch the intro for a few minutes it's embarrassing...)
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    Jan 07, 2011 3:19 PM GMT
    JAKEBENSON saiddear n00b,

    please edit your post by typing (but without any spaces):

    [ url ] (put your youtube homo video here) [ / url ]

    This way the internet retarded can click it to view it. Most of them don't understand copy+paste in new window.


    dear sn0b,
    it's his post, let him do it as he sees fit.
    who the hell died and made you both the judge and monitor of anything?

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    Jan 07, 2011 3:50 PM GMT
    SAHEM62896 said
    JAKEBENSON saiddear n00b,

    please edit your post by typing (but without any spaces):

    [ url ] (put your youtube homo video here) [ / url ]

    This way the internet retarded can click it to view it. Most of them don't understand copy+paste in new window.


    dear sn0b,
    it's his post, let him do it as he sees fit.
    who the hell died and made you both the judge and monitor of anything?



    get it Sahem


    And good video Kyle. interesting point and stand.
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    Jan 07, 2011 4:06 PM GMT
    judoguy saidI think you have some good points. although one sentence was a bit odd I thought. that everyone should be perceived as straight until proven gay. not sure I'll agree to that, or that I'm even sure what you mean by it icon_lol.gif

    I have seen a few movies though that had gay characters who weren't solely defined by their sexuality.
    Like Willem Dafoe in the Boondock Saints or Val kilmer in Kiss Kiss Bang Bang.

    but in some respects there's quite a long way to go. On danish tv there is this dating show that has gay specials now and then. All the contestants are stereotypical, flamboyant, bitchy queens. And the host of the show just makes all these stupid ignorant remarks. not directly homophobic but it's oozing with prejudice and stereotyping (let's laugh at the funny prancing gays kinda show). So in the end it's only the compulsively attention seeking annoying guys who sign up for the show, because no normal person would want to be part of such a mockery.
    (it's in danish but you don't have to understand what's being said to get the idea. just watch the intro for a few minutes it's embarrassing...)



    i dont understand... is everyone jsut saying weather or not they would date the guy in the middle? and the red light means "no"?

    ps please goto 9:35 of the video... im pretty sure that guy has turned a spoon into an ear ring.
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    Jan 07, 2011 4:33 PM GMT
    voice22:

    Your observations are correct icon_lol.gif

    when they go red it means they're "turned off", so as they go along and learn more about the guy in the middle, more guys will pass. eventually the guy in the middle chooses between the 2 last guys which one he'll go on a date with.
  • mybud

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    Jan 07, 2011 4:48 PM GMT
    Gay's are truly the last minority....with this our media chooses to characterize us as feminine....funny...over drinking...self centered and self involved clones....This site is an example of gay reality....you can be masculine....serious....sober....and selfless...BUD
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    Jan 07, 2011 4:52 PM GMT
    First, I applaud you for seeing an issue and trying to do something positive to rectify it. I understand your frustration.

    While I felt you made some very valid points, there were a few points that actually made me feel that your video is also a part of the problem you are trying to fix. It does not seem to be your intent, but you do end up laying a lot of the blame on people who are just trying to be themselves.

    At one point you go off on a tangent about what is appropriate dinner conversation in some unnamed movie leaving us without any context. Here is where it is a bit preachy, and loses some focus for me. Perhaps this conversation was appropriate for the purpose of the film. Telling people what is and is not appropriate in the privacy of their own home is exactly what groups like Focus on the Family are all about.

    You then go on to say that many gay men take on more overtly effeminate mannerism simply to fit in, which is insulting to those who really are just behaving normally. Perhaps rather than trying to fit in, they are just dropping a façade they maintained in order to feel safe in a straight environment. We are not all built the same; we need to stop acting like there is a preferred set of mannerisms across the board.

    While I guess it could happen in some small numbers, I find it hard to believe that someone who is not naturally effeminate is going to take on those mannerisms simply to fit in. Here on RJ there are tons of posts from guys who refuse to behave as stereotypical gays to fit in.

    Though you say “no more labels” you then go on to label everyone as straight until proven otherwise. To say that someone should be perceived as straight until they are proven gay, sounds to me like you think straight is a preferred state. This in and of itself is a part of the bigger problem. Why not simply say that people should not be assumed to be straight, gay, asexual, bisexual or anything else until they have themselves openly expressed a preference?

    I personally feel that the problem with the public perception of gays in the media is much more complex. We should also look at the impact of the many less effeminate gay men, or “straight acting” as they like to label themselves, who are not out. For example, how many gay sports players come out? You can’t tell me they are not out there, but we don’t see them. Only recently, as an act of necessity, have men come out of the closet in the military.

    Let’s stop focusing on the effeminate guys or butch women for being who they are openly, and start looking at the role of the gays and lesbians who have not made their presence known in the community. Not to blame these individuals, simply to understand their role in perpetuating a gay stereotype.

    Individuals who go through their daily lives passing as straight because they can, when they are indeed gay, are also part of the reason for the stereotype. These individuals could bring a whole new dimension to the gay community, and help many young kids who do not identify with the stereotypes. I understand that there are some who would put a great deal at risk if they came out. However, my understanding of their situation does not lessen the impact of their decisions to the problem.

    I also think that the media may be slow, but they are catching up. We have begun to see a greater variety of gay characters, some of which are not stereotypical. I think as laws change and society progresses, individuals will be able to be honest about who they are and we will see many more openly gay individuals in the media who defy the stereotypes.
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    Jan 07, 2011 5:00 PM GMT
    I always appreciate videos like this... But there are some points that you brought up that I don't necessarily agree with.
    Let's start at the beginning
    - The dinner table... You were discussing a scene where gay men sat around a dinner table and were talking about men they had slept with and there penis size... And you say this was inappropriate at the dinner table. I would agree with you if there were heterosexual men, women, and children sitting at the dinner table... But at a table full of gay men who are all friends? Conversations like this happen all the time. While you may find it inappropriate, it is in fact the norm. To deny it would be a lie.

    I've seen a lot of gay films both indie and mainstream, and I've watched a lot of straight films with homosexual characters. I feel like the majority of the sex driven scenarios that you and others tend highlight are taken from gay films themselves. Which in reality are only marketed to gay communities... So why not make it even that much more real? Why not push it to all the limits. You sure can't in a straight/mainstream film so there has to be some outlet for it somewhere. However, I do understand that some films are more serious and don't warrant such scenes.

    The idea of having a character that simply happens to be gay and is also so many other things is not the easiest thing to do in terms of writing. Especially if that character isn't the focus. These days a gay character is considered a minority you need to have in a film or tv show... Almost everything you watch is gonna have at least one... Somewhere... Unlike other minorities, homosexuality has to be expressed in order to give the viewer and understanding that this character is gay, and to what degree.
    For example... If you have a black guy or mexican girl in a film... It doesn't have to be explained what there minority is. It's on the surface, it's visual, and so much can be assumed or attributed to the character. (Partly because of all the influences these cultures bring to our daily lives and education we've had about minorities around us) You have the luxury of getting right into the plot of that character. Now with a gay character... There's the time spent outing him to the viewers. The time spent identifying which "type" of gay man he is. And then by time you really get into his plot It's either too small to have true substance, or simply non-existant. If they aren't a leading role (which in most films (unless gay) they aren't) there just isn't enough room to give the character more. Which is why a lot of the time being gay is that particular characters plot. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing considering many people can't even accept gay people at all. Any writer will tell you if the core of a character isn't believable, then the rest won't be either. Of course there are exceptions.

    In terms of popular media I don't think the gays are only portrayed a single way. We have many different characters with plenty of different levels for all audiences. Take Will and Jack from Will & Grace. Two different types of gay males. One more "feminine" and flamboyant... And the other more "masculine" and reserved. Kurt on Glee - the out, proud, and young theater kid. David on six feet under. A character with so much depth his sexuality is truly secondary. The gay couple on modern family - So dry there sexuality is almost non existant. Helena on Battlestar, Tara on Buffy, Prudence in across the universe... The list goes on. There is definitely different portrayals of homosexuality out there. But I think it's what you choose to see. And I think as gay men we all have different experiences with homosexuality. So certain types of gay characters are gonna jump out at us more. For example I was never "the loud/flamboyant/gay stereotype"/nor was I ever negatively affected by that stereotype... So when I see it in the media, it doesn't phase me much... But many gay men I know have a fit.

    I start to wonder why this recent movement in the gay community this past five years to spread these ideas that our culture no longer has the same pieces it had 20 years ago. I feel like that's a loosing battle.
    In reality a HUGE chunk... The majority of our culture is sex crazed, image obsessed, fashion junkies, etc.... While I completely think we are ready to showcase other sides, we shouldn't pretend like these don't exist. Putting up a fake facade to be accepted into a society that would reject you if they knew what you really did when they weren't looking is a bunch of bull if you ask me.
    And I found it very insulting to our culture history to say gay men who feminize themselves are causing the gay community to be less reputable.
    It's those feminine men and butch women who are clearly gay/lesbian without a question that have carried the rest of us most of the way. They have taken the most scrutiny and have fought the hardest for "straight acting/masculine" gay men to feel comfortable showing there pride. Without them we would not be where we are today and wouldn't be at the point of change we are in now.
    I think they are owed a great deal of respect. I forget who said it but I agree they are the backbone of our culture.

    And lastly... Straight until proven gay? Hmm.. I don't really even know where to begin with that one... It's almost like innocent until proven guilty. Then once they're proven gay then what? We shouldn't be teaching our gay youth they're straight until they're found out to be gay. We should be teaching them that it's okay to be gay and when you're ready to tell the world that we will be here to support them.

    Overall I enjoyed your video. I love a strong opinion! Looking forward to hearing more in the future.
    icon_biggrin.gif
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    Jan 07, 2011 5:08 PM GMT
    judoguy saidOn danish tv there is this dating show that has gay specials now and then. All the contestants are stereotypical, flamboyant, bitchy queens.

    Do you think they purposely select that type of gay man to appear on the show or is it because only that type of gay man tends to audition for the show?
  • TrentGrad

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    Jan 07, 2011 5:15 PM GMT
    judoguy saidI think you have some good points. although one sentence was a bit odd I thought. that everyone should be perceived as straight until proven gay. not sure I'll agree to that, or that I'm even sure what you mean by it icon_lol.gif

    I have seen a few movies though that had gay characters who weren't solely defined by their sexuality.
    Like Willem Dafoe in the Boondock Saints or Val kilmer in Kiss Kiss Bang Bang.

    but in some respects there's quite a long way to go. On danish tv there is this dating show that has gay specials now and then. All the contestants are stereotypical, flamboyant, bitchy queens. And the host of the show just makes all these stupid ignorant remarks. not directly homophobic but it's oozing with prejudice and stereotyping (let's laugh at the funny prancing gays kinda show). So in the end it's only the compulsively attention seeking annoying guys who sign up for the show, because no normal person would want to be part of such a mockery.
    (it's in danish but you don't have to understand what's being said to get the idea. just watch the intro for a few minutes it's embarrassing...)


    Yeah, that sentence struck me as odd as well...as if, when you're labelling someone as being gay, you're somehow damning them...and you shouldn't do it without cause. I'm sure that wasn't the intention of that phrasing, but it seems to be a little bit self-loathing.

    This, in my view, tends to be a recurring issue, as gay men identify themselves as "straight acting," thus propagating the view that those who fall within types of behaviour associated with the gay community are abnormal. One time, I had a fellow claim he was a "straight acting gay man," then proceeded to tell me everything I could ever imagine about "America's Next Top Model." When I suggested to him that a "straight acting gay man" would know little about that, and everything about the NFL, he suddenly got really silent.

    I also have to admit, I don't really see gay men acting more effeminate because they watched films or TV shows which depicted gay men as effeminate. I suspect those who have developed qualities which they refer to as "effeminate" likely do so because those are in fact the qualities that are a part of them.

    I do think your goals are noble however, and I appreciate the thought you put into the video. It is an interesting video...I don't really agree with a lot of what you've said...but obviously a lot of people do. icon_smile.gif I guess we have to sum it up to a difference of opinion, eh?
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    Jan 07, 2011 5:18 PM GMT
    judoguy saidvoice22:

    Your observations are correct icon_lol.gif

    when they go red it means they're "turned off", so as they go along and learn more about the guy in the middle, more guys will pass. eventually the guy in the middle chooses between the 2 last guys which one he'll go on a date with.


    Ugh dude that's a trashy show alright...

    The kind of straight ppl on a show like that are probably trashy too (Jutland Shore? icon_razz.gif ) but for a TV network to exploit the gay stereotype for ratings isn't very classy. Understandable, revenue-generating, but not classy.

    On a related note, I've noticed that some of the American real estate shows (stuff like House Hunter and such) have been including gay couples more recently, and it seems that they don't pick the very stereotypical queens, more like the "slightly noticably gay at 2nd look" kinda type.
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    Jan 07, 2011 5:20 PM GMT
    You're so cute!
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    Jan 07, 2011 5:46 PM GMT
    Mil8 said
    judoguy saidOn danish tv there is this dating show that has gay specials now and then. All the contestants are stereotypical, flamboyant, bitchy queens.

    Do you think they purposely select that type of gay man to appear on the show or is it because only that type of gay man tends to audition for the show?


    actually I think it's mostly the latter I'm afraid. (but a little bit of both)

    But on the very first show there was a little scandal. one of the guys (to stand in the middle) was a rapper and quite masculine. after she show he was revealed as being straight and defended himself by saying he was making a statement against a lot of the homophobia in hip hop circles.

    I think he just did it as a joke (douchebag *cough*) and to promote himself ( albeit in a weird way)
    And then the host said something stupid again:
    He said he'd been suspicious of the guy from the beginning at the auditions, because he didn't seem very gay. icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Jan 07, 2011 5:55 PM GMT
    Tazo995 said


    Ugh dude that's a trashy show alright...

    The kind of straight ppl on a show like that are probably trashy too (Jutland Shore? icon_razz.gif ) but for a TV network to exploit the gay stereotype for ratings isn't very classy. Understandable, revenue-generating, but not classy.

    On a related note, I've noticed that some of the American real estate shows (stuff like House Hunter and such) have been including gay couples more recently, and it seems that they don't pick the very stereotypical queens, more like the "slightly noticably gay at 2nd look" kinda type.


    hey you, watch it! I grew up in Jutland icon_evil.gificon_lol.gif

    one of my straight judo friends actually was on the show as the "leading man" LOL and I did think the girls there were a bit trashy haha.

    after the gay version my straight judo buddies have threatened to enter me for one of the gay shows to come. UGH! I can't even imagine how that'd go

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    Jan 07, 2011 7:54 PM GMT
    Thank you to everyone who took the time to give me a detailed response!

    I'll start with what seems to be people's main concern, the "straight until proven gay" line. I'll admit, the whole time I was making the video I was very iffy about including that line. At the time, I was looking at being straight as the norm, as the safest bet. However looking back I agree with all of you, no assumptions should be made about a person's sexuality period. Of course that means in a perfect world, straight people would have to ask every girl (or a friend of the girl) they were interested in if they were straight, which is possible, but doesn't seem likely.

    Next is the dinner table scene. It comes from a movie by the name of Quinceanera. It's more of a made for TV movie, but I think the point's still valid. I guess more context would explain my frustrations with this movie. Throughout the movie, there are two main gay characters, a gay couple, whose only scenes include date raping another guy, one of the men cheating on his husband with that same guy, and the dinner party scene. Not exactly a terrific portrayal of a gay guy.

    And I'm sorry if the video implied it, but I in no way believe that being feminine is a bad thing. As I said, your actions do not define your sexuality. My problem is the fact that it seems to have become a requirement to be feminine if you are gay. That feminine actions have become "gay actions", and being more feminine, flashy, and flamboyant makes you "more gay". The opposite holds true for females. It may not happen where you are, or in your age group, but I see it constantly in high school, and college, which is the time that many people are trying to figure their sexuality out. In my opinion, this gives young people discovering their sexuality the wrong idea of what it means to be homosexual or bisexual.

    Finally, in regard to creyente's comment on the more masculine athletes or military men who are not out yet, that may also be part of the problem. These men might feel that if they do come out, people will perceive them as "less of a man" because of it, which is unacceptable.
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    Jan 07, 2011 8:05 PM GMT
    mybud saidGay's are truly the last minority....with this our media chooses to characterize us as feminine....funny...over drinking...self centered and self involved clones....This site is an example of gay reality....you can be masculine....serious....sober....and selfless...BUD


    With that wording, maybe but if you mean men with same sex attractions are in the minority of the population then I fundamentally disagree.
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    Jan 07, 2011 8:13 PM GMT
    Some of the stereotypes are based in truth. There are a lot of flaming, bitchy, feminine queens out there representing the gay community. Obviously, not all gay men are like that. But the flamboyant, vain, self-absorbed, superficial gay man does exist. When gays are portrayed in movies or TV like that, there is some truth to it. Doesn't offend me. It's humorous. Not everything in life has to be politically correct.

    Likewise, Southerners are often portrayed in movies as uneducated, redneck, hicks. Not every southerner is like that. But that element does exist. No reason to get offended by a portrayal that is overexaggerated but based in some truth. Don't need to get all PC about every perceived injustice in the world. Just accept it for what it is- harmless humor. JMO.
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    Jan 07, 2011 9:09 PM GMT
    catfish5 saidSome of the stereotypes are based in truth. There are a lot of flaming, bitchy, feminine queens out there representing the gay community. Obviously, not all gay men are like that. But the flamboyant, vain, self-absorbed, superficial gay man does exist. When gays are portrayed in movies or TV like that, there is some truth to it. Doesn't offend me. It's humorous. Not everything in life has to be politically correct.

    Likewise, Southerners are often portrayed in movies as uneducated, redneck, hicks. Not every southerner is like that. But that element does exist. No reason to get offended by a portrayal that is overexaggerated but based in some truth. Don't need to get all PC about every perceived injustice in the world. Just accept it for what it is- harmless humor. JMO.


    Well, if you'd actually watched the video, you would've seen that I am okay with the portrayal of gays in comedies, because of the points you have mentioned. I am not a PC kind of person, trust me.
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    Jan 07, 2011 9:29 PM GMT
    A number of people are going to click only to check if you're cute. LOL
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    Jan 07, 2011 9:51 PM GMT
    blackpuma saidA number of people are going to click only to check if you're cute. LOL

    He is icon_smile.gif

    I watched the whole video on gender expression and portrayal in the media though (one sentence summary). I agree with you. I was never good at rhetoric commentary though.