Is anyone else freaked out about the US and guns?

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 08, 2011 10:18 PM GMT
    Not to take away from the importance of rating the guy above you, but I thought I'd change up the theme.

    So, the shooting in Arizona. WTF?! Has anyone noticed a pattern. How many presidents have been shot? How many schools have had shootings. One shooting (Trolley Square, Ut) happened a few blocks from my house. I guess I could also, mention the gang shooting which happened three doors down, and killed a little girl (don't move to the rough neighborhood to get away from guns). Or, is it don't be in the US?

    My big questions are:

    Why are americans so keen to firearms? Why are the happiest (and safest nations) also the nations with the least amount of firearms)? More importantly, why the hell do so many crazy people have guns in america?

    I mean, I feel unsafe to go to school, go to work, go shopping - I feel unsafe just being in America. Why does nothing change? Our country and our safety gets comprised all the time. What used to make America great was that when there was a major problem, people united to fix it. So, what the hell happened.

    What happened in Arizona is tragic, and inexcusable. No on deserves to be shot, especially not when doing something to improve our country through the exercise of democracy.

    So have at it. Let's here what you hear what you have to say.
  • Webster666

    Posts: 9217

    Jan 08, 2011 10:31 PM GMT
    You can't change "up" the theme.
    You can't change "down" the theme.
    You can only change it.

    High unemployment causes desperation which causes desperate actions.

    Post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) is a form of insanity.

    People like Sarah Palin, whose every speech is peppered with terms related to guns and killing, give angry, desperate, and unstable people permission to take out their anger and frustration by killing other people.
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    Jan 08, 2011 10:54 PM GMT
    I'm thinking that our country has a larger history of problems with guns. While I think that PTSD, and Palin are both major problems (with guns, and all other things), I feel that these are more scapegoats used to sidestep the difficult, but important issues.

    Also, there are a lot of misunderstandings about PTSD. It is legally but no scientifically classified as such. Many people in the US have it (it is not always related to war or guns). Not everyone with PTSD kill people (it's usually used by defense attorneys (another problem with our country) who then keep killers out of prison (another...Do I even have to say it?).

    Also, I have no idea what the hell you mean by up, down, etc.

    I'm not saying this to be an asshole, I'm saying it because I think it's a real issue and deserves real attention. And, we are the people to do it.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 08, 2011 10:56 PM GMT
    oh yeah, and unemployment. Most people who kill people with guns, have jobs. Let's stop using the economy as a scapegoat. Let's remember when school shootings started, it was not during a time of financial crisis.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 09, 2011 12:10 AM GMT
    Charlton Heston's theory is that mutually assured destruction makes gun ownership a reducer of crime.

    America's love of guns is no different to its love of big cars, it's a power-trip thing.

    Canada also has high gun ownership and there have been more shootings in Vancouver than I have encountered in all of the UK, where gun ownership is low.

    The thing that disturbs me most is the risk of a trigger-happy cop shooting at you for jaywalking or because you look like someone else on a wanted list. In London, a Brazilian chap was shot dead, because he freaked and ran when a cop tried to stop him.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 09, 2011 12:15 AM GMT
    Guns should be illegal soon. The "right to bear arms" applies to having a defense mechanism that is up-to-date with current form of weapons. For these reasons you don't see hoards of people carrying swords or bow and arrows. Also, for these reasons if a similar object can stun a perpetrator without killing them, and is as equally effective as a gun (or more), then it should usurp the gun.
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    Jan 09, 2011 12:20 AM GMT
    I wouldn't object to seeing open-carry laws, with marksmanship and firearms safety being taught in schools.

    Seeing more folks qualified as marksmen with sidearms would likely reduce the likelihood of rogue gunmen hosing down a McDonalds or a schoolyard.

    The main reason I think we (Americans) fear adopting a universal gun ban is due in part to our traditions of the firearms being (as Washington put it) the "Liberty Teeth of the People", that is, as a check against tyranny.
  • LuckyGuyKC

    Posts: 2080

    Jan 09, 2011 12:22 AM GMT
    Please read this article written by a Pulitzer Prize Winning friend of mine: The Hidden Life of Guns
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/nation/guns/
    Gun policy in the US has a long way to go. But now we have evidence that our lazy gun policies are allowing easy access to guns in Mexico where they have decent gun laws.
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    Jan 09, 2011 12:23 AM GMT
    Gun crimes still occur in countries where firearms are highly restricted or banned.

    Ban guns and crimes of passion will still potentially be fatal. And premeditated gun users will still find ways to import firearms.
  • DanOmatic

    Posts: 1155

    Jan 09, 2011 12:23 AM GMT
    The thousands of deaths at the hands of Mexican drug gangs were committed with firearms procured in the US, as Mexico's gun laws are very strict. Attempts by researchers and journalists to assess the extent of US firearms in Mexico have been actively squelched by the gun industry here.

    It's not just Americans who are victimized by rampant gun violence, though it's obviously a huge epidemic here. There are those who think that these deaths wouldn't happen if everyone was armed. That doesn't seem very logical to me--people don't go about their daily lives ready to assume the gunslinger stance. Nor should they.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 09, 2011 12:28 AM GMT
    budfb38 said

    Why are americans so keen to firearms?



    maybe it's because of this pesky thing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Bill_of_Rights

    we should really do away with it!
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    Jan 09, 2011 12:28 AM GMT
    alphatrigger saidI wouldn't object to seeing open-carry laws, with marksmanship and firearms safety being taught in schools.

    Seeing more folks qualified as marksmen with sidearms would likely reduce the likelihood of rogue gunmen hosing down a McDonalds or a schoolyard.


    ...or increase the likelihood of politicians being assassinated by sharpshooters with mental illnesses.

    Why can't one have pepper spray or a stungun for self defense, rather than a gun (semiautomatic or not)?

    --because criminals have guns.

    So, then, make ALL guns illegal, so that whoever is found to own a gun will be arrested.

    --criminals will find a way to get guns no matter what.

    Well, the US is not making it any easier with its lax gun laws.

    ---it's the 2nd amendment that grants the right to own arms.
    Some amendments can be revoked, like Prohibition. Or the word "arms" can be qualified. God help us when we have laser guns, instant vaporizers that act on a distance, or a cyanide delivery system shaped like guns.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 09, 2011 12:29 AM GMT
    Go ahead, ban guns. See if that fixes the problem.
    A skilled person who wants a gun can make one in less than 30 minutes.
    It's quite easy, actually.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 09, 2011 12:32 AM GMT
    If you want My gun..... you're going to have to pry it from my Cold Dead Hand.



  • DanOmatic

    Posts: 1155

    Jan 09, 2011 12:34 AM GMT
    I guess the question isn't so much why Americans own guns, but why they seem compelled to use them to kill other people. Maybe the root of the problem is some deep yearning in the American psyche for violence.
  • wellwell

    Posts: 2265

    Jan 09, 2011 12:35 AM GMT
    If I'd been there w/ any one of my firearms; the assailant, would have not gotten off more than 1 round, before I dropped him. It's simple: "No Guns, No Freedom." (and the Founding-Fathers well-knew it)

    FEAR THE GOVERNMENT THAT FEARS YOUR GUNS !
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    Jan 09, 2011 12:38 AM GMT
    budfb38 saidNot to take away from the importance of rating the guy above you, but I thought I'd change up the theme.

    So, the shooting in Arizona. WTF?! Has anyone noticed a pattern. How many presidents have been shot? How many schools have had shootings. One shooting (Trolley Square, Ut) happened a few blocks from my house. I guess I could also, mention the gang shooting which happened three doors down, and killed a little girl (don't move to the rough neighborhood to get away from guns). Or, is it don't be in the US?

    My big questions are:

    Why are americans so keen to firearms? Why are the happiest (and safest nations) also the nations with the least amount of firearms)? More importantly, why the hell do so many crazy people have guns in america?

    I mean, I feel unsafe to go to school, go to work, go shopping - I feel unsafe just being in America. Why does nothing change? Our country and our safety gets comprised all the time. What used to make America great was that when there was a major problem, people united to fix it. So, what the hell happened.

    What happened in Arizona is tragic, and inexcusable. No on deserves to be shot, especially not when doing something to improve our country through the exercise of democracy.

    So have at it. Let's here what you hear what you have to say.


    Ever shot a gun? FEEL THAT POWER BABY!!!!!!!!!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 09, 2011 12:44 AM GMT
    And I wonder how many Lee Harvey Oswald types would be willing to take down a pol ...

    ...or try to take someone down from a grassy knoll ...

    ...if they knew that certain death awaited them from an openly armed citizenry.

    That being said, I'm sure that extra-constitutional applications of security would effectively disarm a cordon along the path of travel of any high level VIPs, or within a certain zone beyond whatever venue they are speaking at, much like they do with those "free speech zones" whenever there is a political convention.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 09, 2011 12:45 AM GMT
    Sylas saidIf you want My gun..... you're going to have to pry it from my Cold Dead Hand.



    I'll just use my instant molecular vaporizer, thank you very much. icon_twisted.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 09, 2011 12:45 AM GMT
    Thankfully, there is NO chance that the second amendment will be revoked. There have always been naive whiners with no sense of history that gripe about America's gun laws....but just chalk that up with the rest of the things they typically hate about our country.

    Blaming Mexican drug violence on America is just laughable.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 09, 2011 12:46 AM GMT
    I am not a gun owner. I am not a gun-owning advocate. But I ambivalent about gun control on ...I dont know gun terminology.... guns that arent AK-47s and the like. I dont see any reason for a citizen to own an assault rifle or other military like gun. But outlawing hand guns and hunting rifles is only gonna take those guns away from law abiding citizens, not criminals. So until someone can show me how gun control will control the guns criminals have, I am sitting on the fence. But I am very willing to hear any remedy for gun violence.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 09, 2011 12:47 AM GMT
    Brit_in_Canada saidCharlton Heston's theory is that mutually assured destruction makes gun ownership a reducer of crime.

    America's love of guns is no different to its love of big cars, it's a power-trip thing.

    Canada also has high gun ownership and there have been more shootings in Vancouver than I have encountered in all of the UK, where gun ownership is low.

    .


    the shootings are being done by criminal gangs with illegal, non registered weapons....so what is your solution to that?

    Uhm remember the days of the IRA and UDL? they had guns when no one else did....of course they didn't kill with them...just threatened....
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 09, 2011 12:47 AM GMT
    alphatrigger saidAnd I wonder how many Lee Harvey Oswald types would be willing to take down a pol ...

    ...or try to take someone down from a grassy knoll ...

    ...if they knew that certain death awaited them from an openly armed citizenry.


    Doesn't matter if they're schizophrenic. It only takes one, as we've seen today. He doesn't appear particularly brave, since he did try to get away.
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    Jan 09, 2011 12:47 AM GMT
    budfb38 saidNot to take away from the importance of rating the guy above you, but I thought I'd change up the theme.

    So, the shooting in Arizona. WTF?! Has anyone noticed a pattern. How many presidents have been shot? How many schools have had shootings. One shooting (Trolley Square, Ut) happened a few blocks from my house. I guess I could also, mention the gang shooting which happened three doors down, and killed a little girl (don't move to the rough neighborhood to get away from guns). Or, is it don't be in the US?

    My big questions are:

    Why are americans so keen to firearms? Why are the happiest (and safest nations) also the nations with the least amount of firearms)? More importantly, why the hell do so many crazy people have guns in america?

    I mean, I feel unsafe to go to school, go to work, go shopping - I feel unsafe just being in America. Why does nothing change? Our country and our safety gets comprised all the time. What used to make America great was that when there was a major problem, people united to fix it. So, what the hell happened.

    What happened in Arizona is tragic, and inexcusable. No on deserves to be shot, especially not when doing something to improve our country through the exercise of democracy.

    So have at it. Let's here what you hear what you have to say.


    Your spin on things is interesting, but somewhat lacking in factual evidence.
    Study after study shows that violent crime rises after guns are banned. Maybe you could show which countries with fewer guns have less crime, the statistics don't match what youy are saying. Gun ownership in the US is at an all time high and violent crimes are at a 35 year low, must be all of those damned guns out there!

    http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-seattle/crime-rates-continue-decline-while-gun-ownership-continues-to-rise

    http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?id=206&issue=007

    http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita

    http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf

    http://reason.com/archives/2002/11/01/gun-controls-twisted-outcome

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2006/may/28/ukcrime.immigrationpolicy

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html

    http://www.china-daily.org/China-News/Paris-France-the-first-time-in-8-years-of-rising-crime-rates/
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    Jan 09, 2011 12:48 AM GMT
    field123 saidThankfully, there is NO chance that the second amendment will be revoked. There have always been naive whiners with no sense of history that gripe about America's gun laws....but just chalk that up with the rest of the things they typically hate about our country.

    Blaming Mexican drug violence on America is just laughable.


    Wrong!!! Do some research. America has a LOT to do with the drug violence in mexico. America has a lot to do with violence everywhere. Don't be dumb