Right-wingers attack Pima County Sheriff for Speaking the Truth

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 10, 2011 5:09 AM GMT
    This is despicable. This sheriff had the guts to say what needed to be said: that the rhetoric has been over the top and it needs to stop and, yes, right-wing radio is a big driver of it. I'm sad and sickened by what happened in Tuscon, but this man sad, sickened and brave to say what so many have refused to say. Jon Kyl should be ashamed of himself and so should this asshat Jon "Justice".

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/09/clarence-dupnik-arizona-sheriff_n_806440.html

  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19129

    Jan 10, 2011 5:15 AM GMT
    He didn't necessarily speak the truth, he voiced his opinion -- there is a difference. Furthermore, his timing was completely inappropriate.
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    Jan 10, 2011 5:22 AM GMT
    The ugly and divisive partisan politicial trickery of the AZ GOP, and the extreme hatefilled rhetoric of the active community of Teabggers here in AZ has created an atmosphere that is so toxic and so dangerous, that it's no surprise that we have had such a tragedy happen here.
    Especially when we look at some of the things the AZ Repubs have done...
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelookout/20110109/us_yblog_thelookout/after-shooting-worries-over-arizonas-reputation

    Sheriff Dupnik spoke the truth about the out of control right-wing hatred here in Az.
    And for a right-wing hatmongerer like Jon Justice, who makes his living selling hate on the air day in and day out, to whine about the Sheriff supposedly making "horrible comments" on the air is unbelievably hypocritical.

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    Jan 10, 2011 5:28 AM GMT
    Maybe if people like you didn't carry water for the hate filled histrionics of the Limbaugh, Beck and Palin coterie, this Congresswoman wouldn't have been shot. I'm fairly certain that this sheriff is in a better position to judge the climate and the causes thereof than you are.

    You could all use to take a page from Jan Brewer's book, who seemed genuinely upset, or others who have said the rhetoric needs to be toned down. And don't embarrass yourself by trying to claim that the hate speak is equal on both sides.

    If you don't stand up against those whose rhetoric continues to fill our politics with bile, than you're not just complacent, you're complicit.

    The time has come for the enablers to disavow themselves of those whose continued provocation has precipitated this violence.
  • musclmed

    Posts: 3279

    Jan 10, 2011 5:39 AM GMT
    Christian73 saidMaybe if people like you didn't carry water for the hate filled histrionics of the Limbaugh, Beck and Palin coterie, this Congresswoman wouldn't have been shot. I'm fairly certain that this sheriff is in a better position to judge the climate and the causes thereof than you are.

    You could all use to take a page from Jan Brewer's book, who seemed genuinely upset, or others who have said the rhetoric needs to be toned down. And don't embarrass yourself by trying to claim that the hate speak is equal on both sides.

    If you don't stand up against those whose rhetoric continues to fill our politics with bile, than you're not just complacent, you're complicit.

    The time has come for the enablers to disavow themselves of those whose continued provocation has precipitated this violence.


    It would be nice if the rhetoric went down. But when there is selective memory on who says the vitriol of course there will be a backlash.

    The sheriff when asked specifically on fox or Faux so you guys will understand , said it was his personal belief and he had no evidence this guy was influenced by anyone in particular.
    Indirectly his comments may actually fuel a counter attack, did he think of that? Maybe some unstable person tries something on one of the Palins?
    But....it sounds like hes upset and emotionally involved. I would give him a pass, as he probably knew alot of the people involved. But still what he said was factually incorrect, and in his position. He shouldnt be editorializing. Furthermore, he is creating a legal defense for the shooter. He can be called to court and cross examined on his "thoughts" even not a defense could be used to sway a jury.

    So think about it before you praise him.

    Back to "that argument". The level of vitriol and hate speech has existed for a good long time. Visit any liberal blog, and in the margins there are threats of violence and rejoicing at the demise of anyone they oppose. I can remember some pretty despicable remarks about Tony Snow..

    Even our current president during the campaign said " If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun,” Obama said at a Philadelphia fundraiser Friday night. “Because from what I understand folks in Philly like a good brawl. I’ve seen Eagles fans.”
    So if someone did just that? maybe a mentally disturbed person would everyone here pounce on Obama?

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    Jan 10, 2011 5:44 AM GMT
    musclmed said
    Christian73 saidMaybe if people like you didn't carry water for the hate filled histrionics of the Limbaugh, Beck and Palin coterie, this Congresswoman wouldn't have been shot. I'm fairly certain that this sheriff is in a better position to judge the climate and the causes thereof than you are.

    You could all use to take a page from Jan Brewer's book, who seemed genuinely upset, or others who have said the rhetoric needs to be toned down. And don't embarrass yourself by trying to claim that the hate speak is equal on both sides.

    If you don't stand up against those whose rhetoric continues to fill our politics with bile, than you're not just complacent, you're complicit.

    The time has come for the enablers to disavow themselves of those whose continued provocation has precipitated this violence.


    It would be nice if the rhetoric went down. But when there is selective memory on who says the vitriol of course there will be a backlash.

    The sheriff when asked specifically on fox or Faux so you guys will understand , said it was his personal belief and he had no evidence this guy was influenced by anyone in particular.
    Indirectly his comments may actually fuel a counter attack, did he think of that? Maybe some unstable person tries something on one of the Palins?
    But....it sounds like hes upset and emotionally involved. I would give him a pass, as he probably knew alot of the people involved. But still what he said was factually incorrect, and in his position. He shouldnt be editorializing. Furthermore, he is creating a legal defense for the shooter. He can be called to court and cross examined on his "thoughts" even not a defense could be used to sway a jury.

    So think about it before you praise him.

    Back to "that argument". The level of vitriol and hate speech has existed for a good long time. Visit any liberal blog, and in the margins there are threats of violence and rejoicing at the demise of anyone they oppose. I can remember some pretty despicable remarks about Tony Snow..

    Even our current president during the campaign said If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun,” Obama said at a Philadelphia fundraiser Friday night. “Because from what I understand folks in Philly like a good brawl. I’ve seen Eagles fans.”
    So if someone did just that? maybe a mentally disturbed person would everyone here pounce on Obama?




    POST PROOF that the Sheriff said anything "factually inaccurate".
    Otherwise you're just making stuff up.
    AGAIN.
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    Jan 10, 2011 5:49 AM GMT
    sxydrkhair saidI finally did it! I just add Jan Brewer to my friend list on Facebook! WOO HOO!!

    One of the sickest comments I've ever heard here. I hope this is some kind of satire. icon_confused.gif
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    Jan 10, 2011 6:01 AM GMT
    sxydrkhair said
    Art_Deco said
    sxydrkhair saidI finally did it! I just add Jan Brewer to my friend list on Facebook! WOO HOO!!

    One of the sickest comments I've ever heard here. I hope this is some kind of satire. icon_confused.gif

    I am glad I did that, because you are on my nerves.

    Evidently a good thing, from what I read here.

    You are actually serious with that previous comment. REALLY?

    This should be fun... icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Jan 10, 2011 6:02 AM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    sxydrkhair saidI finally did it! I just add Jan Brewer to my friend list on Facebook! WOO HOO!!

    One of the sickest comments I've ever heard here. I hope this is some kind of satire. icon_confused.gif



    sexydarkhair's and curious's attitudes are indicative of the kind of hyper in your face partisanship that exists on the right here in AZ.
    I don't blame sexy & curious.
    I blame Brewer and her AZ Republican cronies and the bitterly divisive partisan political games and tricks that they've been guilty of in recent years.
    And I blame the recklessly extreme rhetoric from the active AZ Tea Partiers.
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    Jan 10, 2011 7:05 AM GMT
    sxydrkhair said
    Art_Deco said
    sxydrkhair saidI finally did it! I just add Jan Brewer to my friend list on Facebook! WOO HOO!!

    One of the sickest comments I've ever heard here. I hope this is some kind of satire. icon_confused.gif


    I am glad I did that, because you are on my nerves.


    Good to see you have done that matey. Don't worry I've seen him gloat about the death of a republican, and that was much worse than you putting a person on Face book; and why not, she is your Governor after all.
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    Jan 10, 2011 12:15 PM GMT
    musclmed said
    It would be nice if the rhetoric went down. But when there is selective memory on who says the vitriol of course there will be a backlash.

    The sheriff when asked specifically on fox or Faux so you guys will understand , said it was his personal belief and he had no evidence this guy was influenced by anyone in particular.
    Indirectly his comments may actually fuel a counter attack, did he think of that? Maybe some unstable person tries something on one of the Palins?
    But....it sounds like hes upset and emotionally involved. I would give him a pass, as he probably knew alot of the people involved. But still what he said was factually incorrect, and in his position. He shouldnt be editorializing. Furthermore, he is creating a legal defense for the shooter. He can be called to court and cross examined on his "thoughts" even not a defense could be used to sway a jury.

    So think about it before you praise him.

    Back to "that argument". The level of vitriol and hate speech has existed for a good long time. Visit any liberal blog, and in the margins there are threats of violence and rejoicing at the demise of anyone they oppose. I can remember some pretty despicable remarks about Tony Snow..

    Even our current president during the campaign said " If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun,” Obama said at a Philadelphia fundraiser Friday night. “Because from what I understand folks in Philly like a good brawl. I’ve seen Eagles fans.”
    So if someone did just that? maybe a mentally disturbed person would everyone here pounce on Obama?



    What you've said is nonsensical and internally inconsistent. Since you believe that the pervasive atmosphere of vitriol did not cause the shooting, why should this sheriff's comments cause another one? Secondly, are you seriously suggesting that such an atmosphere could create any sort of defense at all? This is manifest nonsense: "he told me too" has never been any sort of defense.

    I strongly suggest that think more carefully before writing.
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Jan 10, 2011 1:58 PM GMT
    I think you should try toListen to the man

    He lives there and he deals with crime and has seen the politization that AZ has seen because of it's swing right

    It's always the same with republicans when faced with an overwhelming amount of factual evidence it's HE DID IT TOO
    OR YOU'RE BUSH BASHING
    OR THEY HAVE AN AX TO GRIND

    Look at the evidence

    Gun
    Dead people
    Deranged man
    Governmental control paranoia

    Hmmmmmmmm............

    Who the hell talks about governmental control????????

    Use your brain for something other than making excuses!
  • rioriz

    Posts: 1056

    Jan 10, 2011 2:12 PM GMT
    What is really sad is that people cannot give up on the rhetoric here for a bit to actually mourn the loss of the innocent. The Libs on this board use the same tired rhetoric that some Conservatives use in the media. Attacking either side will do no good but make everyone get on the defensive. When people get defensive they often lash out more which brings on strong negative reactions whether verbal or not. Right now everyone here and in the media are being armchair quarterbacks who have no knowledge of the kids motive. He seemed to be truly sick and as one who works in the mental health field that kind of paranoia is not brought on by "rhetoric". Let's just give it a rest for a bit...
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    Jan 10, 2011 2:18 PM GMT
    rioriz saidWhat is really sad is that people cannot give up on the rhetoric here for a bit to actually mourn the loss of the innocent. The Libs on this board use the same tired rhetoric that some Conservatives use in the media. Attacking either side will do no good but make everyone get on the defensive. When people get defensive they often lash out more which brings on strong negative reactions whether verbal or not. Right now everyone here and in the media are being armchair quarterbacks who have no knowledge of the kids motive. He seemed to be truly sick and as one who works in the mental health field that kind of paranoia is not brought on by "rhetoric". Let's just give it a rest for a bit...


    Actually, if you read the other threads you'll notice that there is no consensus at all amongst "libs" as you call them. Quite a number of us have written thoughtful, measured posts inviting patience while more information becomes available.

    Perhaps you need to take your own medicine in a very large measure?
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    Jan 10, 2011 2:20 PM GMT
    True_blue_aussie said
    sxydrkhair said
    Art_Deco said
    sxydrkhair saidI finally did it! I just add Jan Brewer to my friend list on Facebook! WOO HOO!!

    One of the sickest comments I've ever heard here. I hope this is some kind of satire. icon_confused.gif


    I am glad I did that, because you are on my nerves.


    Good to see you have done that matey. Don't worry I've seen him gloat about the death of a republican, and that was much worse than you putting a person on Face book; and why not, she is your Governor after all.


    You two should sign up for a remedial English course. Perhaps you could carpool!
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    Jan 10, 2011 2:26 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    CuriousJockAZ saidHe didn't necessarily speak the truth, he voiced his opinion -- there is a difference.


    Yep.




    CuriousJockAZ saidFurthermore, his timing was completely inappropriate.


    Yep.



    Nope. AZ has been one of the chief sites for violent rhetoric in the last campaign season and this is the outcome. Again, the Sheriff is in a much better position to speak to the atmosphere and how it may have played into this than you two.
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    Jan 10, 2011 2:36 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    Christian73 saidNope. AZ has been one of the chief sites for violent rhetoric in the last campaign season and this is the outcome.


    Really? I've heard the exact same words on CNN.

    When was the last time YOU were in Arizona to see for yourself?

    (I've been there dozens of times over the past year alone).


    What "exact words" did you hear on CNN? Palin saying "don't retreat, reload?" Or Giffords' opponent inviting people to a firing range as a fundraiser? Or Debbie Wasserman-Schultz's opponent putting her initials on targets at the firing range? A mother of two children? That's okay with you? I dare you to find a similar instance of a Democratic politician or candidate doing the same thing.

    And, please give up the "when was the last time YOU were in " bullshit. I have two close friends in Tuscon and another in Phoenix. Andthen there's these things called television, and newspapers and the Internet wherein people report what happens in places other than were you live. In fact, there was an earthquake in Haiti that I saw right there on the TV.
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    Jan 10, 2011 2:51 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    Christian73 said
    southbeach1500 said
    Christian73 saidNope. AZ has been one of the chief sites for violent rhetoric in the last campaign season and this is the outcome.


    Really? I've heard the exact same words on CNN.

    When was the last time YOU were in Arizona to see for yourself?

    (I've been there dozens of times over the past year alone).


    What "exact words" did you hear on CNN?



    " AZ has been one of the chief sites for violent rhetoric in the last campaign season and this is the outcome. "

    Sorry, but you see the world through the "mainstream" media which has biases, especially when covering "the rest of the country."


    You're just ridiculous. And I don't see the world through the "corporate" media. I read reliable news sites which are not owned by General Electric or NewsCorp, whereas you reliably spew right-wing talking points that lack even a shred of facts.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19129

    Jan 10, 2011 2:52 PM GMT
    Christian73 said
    southbeach1500 said
    CuriousJockAZ saidHe didn't necessarily speak the truth, he voiced his opinion -- there is a difference.


    Yep.




    CuriousJockAZ saidFurthermore, his timing was completely inappropriate.


    Yep.



    Nope. AZ has been one of the chief sites for violent rhetoric in the last campaign season and this is the outcome. Again, the Sheriff is in a much better position to speak to the atmosphere and how it may have played into this than you two.



    Again, your giving the sheriff too much power. What he said was his opinion, only half the truth, and it was inappropriate to do so at the time he did. Anyone who tries to claim that hate speech and political vitriol is only one-sided is simply being dishonest. The Sheriff politicized this event in his very first press conference, and he has been soundly criticized for this across the country. It was wrong to do. It was unfair to place the blame on anyone other than THE SHOOTER himself before any evidence was even in. Don't expect the Sheriff to apologize to anyone who he blamed unfairly -- Libs don't do that. icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Jan 10, 2011 2:56 PM GMT
    rickrick91 said
    Art_Deco said
    sxydrkhair saidI finally did it! I just add Jan Brewer to my friend list on Facebook! WOO HOO!!

    One of the sickest comments I've ever heard here. I hope this is some kind of satire. icon_confused.gif

    sexydarkhair's and curious's attitudes are indicative of the kind of hyper in your face partisanship that exists on the right here in AZ.
    I don't blame sexy & curious.
    I blame Brewer and her AZ Republican cronies and the bitterly divisive partisan political games and tricks that they've been guilty of in recent years.
    And I blame the recklessly extreme rhetoric from the active AZ Tea Partiers.

    The response from right-wingers has been as predicted. "This guy is simply one deranged individual. It has nothing to do with us."

    First of all, we don't yet KNOW if he's legally deranged. But let's accept their argument for a moment, that he's a mental case.

    As I heard the County Sheriff there say this morning on the Today show, there are thousands of individuals who are mentally unstable. That's why responsible politicians and media commentators don't use inflammatory rhetoric that might set them off, and inspire them to do things like this.

    Palin's "don't retreat, reload" comment is typical. It validates & promotes the disturbed violent thinking of these sick individuals. In the past, responsible American leaders knew better. The current crop of right-wingers and Teabagger extremists are as amateurish, clueless & reckless as their patron saint Sarah. They brandish loaded weapons at town meetings, and fire them at political rallies, then claim to be aghast when their opponents actually get shot. To rational thinking people, we call this cause & effect.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19129

    Jan 10, 2011 2:59 PM GMT
    Christian73 said
    Nope. AZ has been one of the chief sites for violent rhetoric in the last campaign season and this is the outcome. Again, the Sheriff is in a much better position to speak to the atmosphere and how it may have played into this than you two.


    Again, your giving the sheriff too much power. The Sheriff abused his position. What he said was HIS opinion, only half the truth, and it was inappropriate to do so at the time he did. Anyone who tries to claim that hate speech and political vitriol is only one-sided is simply being dishonest. The Sheriff politicized this event in his very first press conference, and he has been soundly criticized for this across the country. It was wrong to do. It was unfair to place the blame on anyone other than THE SHOOTER himself before any evidence was even in. Don't expect the Sheriff to apologize to anyone who he blamed unfairly -- Libs don't do that. icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Jan 10, 2011 3:07 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    Christian73 said
    southbeach1500 said
    CuriousJockAZ saidHe didn't necessarily speak the truth, he voiced his opinion -- there is a difference.


    Yep.




    CuriousJockAZ saidFurthermore, his timing was completely inappropriate.


    Yep.



    Nope. AZ has been one of the chief sites for violent rhetoric in the last campaign season and this is the outcome. Again, the Sheriff is in a much better position to speak to the atmosphere and how it may have played into this than you two.



    Again, your giving the sheriff too much power. What he said was his opinion, only half the truth, and it was inappropriate to do so at the time he did. Anyone who tries to claim that hate speech and political vitriol is only one-sided is simply being dishonest. The Sheriff politicized this event in his very first press conference, and he has been soundly criticized for this across the country. It was wrong to do. It was unfair to place the blame on anyone other than THE SHOOTER himself before any evidence was even in. Don't expect the Sheriff to apologize to anyone who he blamed unfairly -- Libs don't do that. icon_rolleyes.gif


    Dupnick is a not a "liberal". He's a conservative Democrat, quite like Giffords. And Dupnick didn't blame anyone or say anything partisan. He blamed the overall tone, and the tone, in particular, in the talk radio world. But he never said "right-wing radio". On FreeRepublic, they are saying that the Sheriff blamed the "conservative movement." And that never happened.

    Again, all of this deflection suggests a guilty conscience on the part of those who refuse to try and use this as a learning moment for the nation.

    AND, as I did with SouthBeach, I dare you to find a politician on the left who has used the violent rhetoric on par with the right.

    Find me a Democrat who publicly put the initials of his or her opponent on a shooting range target. Find me one who said "don't retreat. Reload." Find me a left-wing talk radio host who said they want to strangle their political opposition as Glenn Beck did.

    This is not to say there isn't vitriol on the left but the level of violence in the rhetoric is simply not comparable.
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    Jan 10, 2011 3:13 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ saidDon't expect the Sheriff to apologize to anyone who he blamed unfairly -- Libs don't do that. icon_rolleyes.gif

    Is that Sheriff really a liberal? Elected to a county position in Arizona? And who was the last right-winger to apologize for outrageous comments? Michelle Bachmann? Glenn Beck?

    Furthermore, the Sheriff blamed no one by name. He talked about an "atmosphere" and "political rhetoric" that might have inspired this. I actually heard his comments, and his interview on TV -- did you?

    And you automatically assume his remarks only refer to you right-wingers? Your own guilt betrays you. icon_wink.gif
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19129

    Jan 10, 2011 4:34 PM GMT
    Christian73 said
    Find me a Democrat who publicly put the initials of his or her opponent on a shooting range target. Find me one who said "don't retreat. Reload." Find me a left-wing talk radio host who said they want to strangle their political opposition as Glenn Beck did.

    This is not to say there isn't vitriol on the left but the level of violence in the rhetoric is simply not comparable.


    Yeah, yeah, yeah, Christian, lefties are sugar and sweet and never take it over the top. Anyone remember the "Hanging Palin" in West Hollywood for Halloween? icon_rolleyes.gif

    artpalingi.jpg
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    Jan 10, 2011 4:41 PM GMT

    CuriousjockAZ, I read a post where you stated both parties are at fault. I agree.
    However, using an example of this pic is not the same. It's one thing when a member of the public makes an effigy and hangs it (this was done to prez Obama as well, if I recall) but quite another if a political figure was to make an effigy of their opponent and hang him/her, make a target, or use a rifle cross-hair. In order to get the votes of the stupids, both sides have stooped (one more than the other) to acrimonious belligerence to win the stupids to their side.

    Political figures are supposed to be taken seriously. They are also in positions of authority as leaders. What they do in these roles is far more influencing on a much broader scale.

    -Doug