I love fur! Real fur, not the scratchy fake shit. Real dead animal skin. That's what I'm talking about.

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    Mar 26, 2008 9:22 AM GMT
    Now guys don't freak out before you read this. I know allot of you are like all green and shit and I respect that but let's not get silly. My oppinion is simple: We need to conserve, that's a fact. Nature will not last forever and we humans (being a part of nature ourselves) have the power and the knowledge to do so. Allot of problems however arise when "greenies" decide to stick their noses where it does'nt belong.
    The only way some animals survive these days is because lucrative hunting farms keep them alive and controll their numbers by letting people hunt them. This is good because there is a demand for these animals to survive so people can keep on hunting them. If people did'nt hunt them they would die out because there would be no need for them to survive. And neither will there be enough space or vegitation.
    In Africa, currently, there is a great problem with elephants because they are breeding to fast and because of some extravegant marketing done my some misinformed f**king greenies no one is allowed to touch them. The problem is that these are huge animals and they are literaly turning the beautiful landskapes of Africa into desolate plains of nothing.icon_sad.gif This meens that soon enough all the other pretty animals will die of hunger too because the big fat elephants ate all their food. And guess what after all the other animals have died out of hunger, the elephants too will have nothing to eat so they will die too.
    I'm very fond of nature and enjoy going to the Kruger National park among others at least once a year. It is therefor a issue of great pesonal importance to me but also to allot of nature conservationists that people think before they do. I would like to continue hunting and continue visiting some conservation areas for reasons other than hunting. But unless the "greenies" who unfortunately have unlimited funds (contrary to what they would have you believe) stop fucking up nature! There is very little hope for any positive future...
    I like fur! There is nothing, I repeat NOTHING as luxurious as real fur. I realy do, but I buy mine from people who put back what they take from nature.icon_cool.gifAnd I certainly don't support anyone that thinks nature will simply renew itself. We fucked it up in the first place we should take care of it.
  • ShawnTX

    Posts: 2484

    Mar 26, 2008 2:51 PM GMT
    I love fur, I love my fur coats. I love the way it feels and the way it looks. I love my leather shoes, my snakeskin shoes, my alligator shoes and my pony hair shoes. I'm not an idiot, I know what it takes to make these items.

    An extremist, pro-hunting, pro-killing attitude can be just as counter-productive as an extremist, ban all hunting, ban all killing attitude.

    The key to anything in life is balance and moderation. Being well-informed is also a bonus.

    While I'm sure all members of PETA do have an issue with the killing of animals (for wahtever reason), I don't think all of them are so unreasonable as to say that all hunting and killing should be banned. In a recent thread about the Canadian seal hunt, I think the biggest issue being raised was how the seals are killed, and the fact that some of the seals are being skinned alive.

    People tend to forget that humans are a part of nature and our actions aren't necessarily 'good' or 'bad', they just are. 1 million seals killed each year sounds shcoking, but without the seal hunt, their population would explode with disatrous consequneces on that particular ecosystem. The seal hunt has been going on for so long, that it's become a part of that ecosystem, a process that maintains balance.

    Humans have been hunting animals for food and clothing since we stepped out of the cave. I don't agree with anyone that suggests it is a practice that should be abolished just because it fits with their personal moral codes.

    20 cows were killed for their meat, and their hides used to make my leather jacket. How much pollution did the factory that produced the nylon for your 'I don't kill animals for clothes' jacket produce? Kill an animal for food and colthing, or save them all and add to the pollution in our atmosphere? I think a balance can be found somewhere, because going to either extreme won't solve all our problems.

    Rant over.
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    Mar 26, 2008 3:29 PM GMT
    I must admit I am not a big natural fur lover. Unless you are relying on the land to supply you with food, shelter and clothing it seems a bit of a waste (e.g. the Inuit).

    I would not go as far though as spray painting somebody's fur coat that is basically criminal activity.
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    Mar 26, 2008 3:32 PM GMT
    Uhhh.... what dude wears fur?
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    Mar 26, 2008 3:52 PM GMT
    This actually is somewhat laughable. The "greenies" are destroying the planet.. That is rich.

    And shawn.. While you mentioned the 20 cows to make your jacket and the little waste is takes to kill them compared to making synthetic clothing.. however, what you conveniently leave out is the waste produced in raising and transporting them. Also Shawn, are you aware that if leather wasn't treated with harsh chemicals, it would rot right off of your feet or body. It is skin after all. I like you , but even you have to admit that is a lame argument.

    You have a right to view fur as "luxurious" just as I have a right to see it as repulsive.
    Big companies making money off of the torture of animals by selling the ludicrous idea that an animal skinned alive or electrocuted through its butt for it's fur is luxury. There is nothing Luxurious about fur farms. Fur used to be a necessity for people who lived off of the land, those days are over for most of us.

    That being said, to each his own. The 'greenies" have a right to get pissed in this country when you realize the environmental detriment raising livestock has had on North America. This idea that it restores balance is ludicrous given the current state of things.



  • justjk

    Posts: 302

    Mar 26, 2008 3:58 PM GMT
    mnjock2003 saidThis actually is somewhat laughable. The "greenies" are destroying the planet.. That is rich.

    And shawn.. While you mentioned the 20 cows to make your jacket and the little waste is takes to kill them compared to making synthetic clothing.. however, what you conveniently leave out is the waste produced in raising them. Also Shawn, are you aware that if leather wasn't treated with harsh chemicals, it would rot right off of your feet or body. It is skin after all. I like you , but even you have to admit that is a lame argument.

    You have a right to view fur as "luxurious" just as I have a right to see it as repulsive.
    Big companies making money off of the torture of animals by selling the ludicrous idea that an animal skinned alive for it's fur is luxury. There is nothing Luxurious about fur farms. Fur used to be a necessity for people who lived off of the land, those days are over for most of us.

    That being said, to each his own. The 'greenies" have a right to get pissed in this country when you realize the environmental detriment raising livestock has had on North America. This idea that it restores balance is ludicrous given the current state of things.

    Very well said! i totally agree, but is it bad that i want mnjock to be draped all over me next winter???!!!!

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    Mar 26, 2008 4:24 PM GMT
    Disagree hate Fur users!!!!!!1


    How would you like to be shot and skinned!!


    Animals were here before man remember!



  • Franklin_1

    Posts: 4

    Mar 26, 2008 5:03 PM GMT


    I can't say it better than those who have already spoken out...

    while i don't necessarily agree with everything peta says, i believe in their fundamental message of ethical treatment of all animals.
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    Mar 26, 2008 5:03 PM GMT

    I find it sad that a harmless animal has to die just so you can make an utter fool of yourself, Mr. Ventura. Fur is not even in style anymore and it was NEVER in style for a man especially one as common as yourself. What are you trying to be some famous actress, LOL. You sicken me and so does Well-Well, I always thought he was ridiculous but THIS is just over the top black comedy.
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    Mar 26, 2008 5:12 PM GMT
    I try to take a moderate position that if it is a farm raised animal, then I dont get all wrapped around an axel about using its fur. Just like raising cattle and chickens for me to eat. But I dont want to watch any of them being killed and processed...I dont care how humane the process is.

    Trapping wild animals for fur is another matter.

    Personally, I dont have any real fur items and dont want any.
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    Mar 26, 2008 5:27 PM GMT
    I love fur and animal skins. In fact, I'm sure any one of you other fur lovers would look good as my next autumn leather coat.
  • vindog

    Posts: 1440

    Mar 26, 2008 5:45 PM GMT
    The way I look at it...

    Using elephants to defend the use of fur is off-base. First this overpopulation is not happening everywhere they exist or existed. However, I DO agree that hunting and ranching practices have saved some animals from extinction. Hunters and fisherman were the first environmentalists.

    But in this country for me...

    If the animal you're wearing was also someone's dinner that is o.k. with me.

    Killing an animal just for the fur is kind of whack. Not into it at all. I lived in a ski town for 6 years and without fail the most annoying people were the tacky fur-wearers.

    But I will rock faux fur.....at Burning Man only.
  • ShawnTX

    Posts: 2484

    Mar 26, 2008 7:25 PM GMT
    Oh don't get me wrong mnjock, I'm not suggesting fur and leather is good, nylon is bad. That's a line of extremeist thinking that isn't healthy or productive, as I mentioned in my first post. But, rereading my post, I can understand how it can sound like that's what I am saying.

    Just to make it clear, I love my fur and leather products, but I don't have closets filled with fur coats.

    I know the environmental implications of raising cattle, and the synthetic chemicals that goes into perserving leather and fur goods. I'm also not suggesting the fur farms are acceptable, because in that case the animals are used for fur only.

    But there are natural preserving processes that don't impact the environment and in my opinion, keep animal goods a lot longer than the synthetic chemicals.

    Incidentally, with the exception of one leather coat, all my animal goods have been treated naturally and come from people that hunt these animals for food and use the fur and hides to make goods. I guess that's the benefit of growing up in a city with a strong Native Canadian influence, being able to benefit from those traditional practices.

    My whole point is that there can be a balance achieved, being able to eat meat (as humans are meant to do) and wear animal goods without the senseless torture of animals trapped in cages and pens in buildings just to make use of their fur and hides.
  • fitnfunmich

    Posts: 181

    Mar 26, 2008 7:33 PM GMT
    Not really into fur (on a guy or off of him), but don't understand the difference really between fur and leather. For those of you on the "fur=evil" side of this discussion, do you wear any leather belts or shoes or coats???
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    Mar 26, 2008 7:38 PM GMT
    I think fur looks and feels great...that doesn't negate the incredible amount of harm that goes into producing it. Actually, the production of meat is not only harmful to animals but extremely wasteful of things such as grain and clean water, which ISN'T going to people who need it. Also, all that cow gas is helping to speed global warming. However, as this isn't a forum particularly kind to pro-animal types and/or vegetarians, I'll shut up.

    So wear your fur, fake preferably, without illusions about what you're doing.
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    Mar 26, 2008 8:04 PM GMT
    fitnfunmich saidNot really into fur (on a guy or off of him), but don't understand the difference really between fur and leather. For those of you on the "fur=evil" side of this discussion, do you wear any leather belts or shoes or coats???


    I wear vintage belts or cloth belts and second hand leather boots (sort of gross but what are you gonna do) in the winter. Otherwise I wear converse and my gym shoes are leather free. As of the last 3 years, I have not purchased anything leather and do not plan on doing so in the future. I am not solving anything and I know that. We all have to come to terms with our own level of greed and vanity and what cost that has on the environment or other sentient beings. I would rather live with a less guilty conscience then a new pair of leather shoes. My beliefs work for ME and the people living in my house. You are free to do as you want.
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    Mar 26, 2008 8:10 PM GMT
    gh

    Oh, that isn't fair! Here I am thinking this post is about somebody liking fur. I am not surprised he's being bashed for it, let the bashing continue. However, now the discussion has turned to leather products of which, I own numerous articles. But cows are food so it's ok to wear them, right?

    JFYI, Amber was wearing a killer leather dress in this crushing scene on tv's Y&R. Fur coats look trashy, but Amber looking drop dead gorgeous in this dress just can't be wrong!!
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    Mar 26, 2008 8:27 PM GMT
    vonsooner saidUhhh.... what dude wears fur?
    Go to Russia, their jeans are lined with it, to help insulate them from the cold. Fur works very well for thisicon_exclaim.gif
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    Mar 26, 2008 8:34 PM GMT
    I think I'm a little dumber for having read that

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    Mar 26, 2008 8:43 PM GMT
    Well one is a paid up member for WSPA. So one hates the thought of a bear living it's life in a cage, just for vile.

    Down in Oz, our greenies, are know for tying themselves up in a tree, to stop it from being cut dawn. They are also known for fucking with trails into National Parks, and our bush, forests. So when we have one of our bush fires. Fire trucks are prevented from getting to the fire too fight it. Then all those animals, our marsupials, have a very cruel slow death; thanks to greenies. Go hug a tree.

    Also we now cull our Kangaroo's. As in some placers, the numbers out weigh the food, so they get a quick death and not a slow death. Once by law. We had to just leave this dead carcase, to root. Now we are able to use it for food, and fur.

    Would it not be a waist just to kill a cow, and let it to rot. But when we turn it into food, and shoes, it has not died in vain.

    Don't get one wrong. One is an animal lover. I love em more than humans. But one also supports the right to choose to die. As this to, is humane!
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    Mar 26, 2008 8:50 PM GMT
    I am completely anti-fur. It is a cruel, inhumane, wasteful industry and I refuse to support it or the "designers" that use real fur. The animals are usually only killed for the fur. You don't see anyone eating mink steaks, do you? No. The carcasses are disrepectfully discarded like garbage with no regard that a life was just sacrificed for a luxury item. It is wasteful. Hunting for sport is also wasteful, and the term is a misnomer. There is no sport in hunting a creature that can not defend itself from your weapons. As for the argument that these fur farms have kept some species alive... they were endangered in the first place because of over-hunting. The fur farms are simply a means to keep a "cash crop" from drying up.

    If you hunt, fine... but use as much of the animals you kill as possible, or at least give it to someone who will use it. Yes, my ancestors hunted and some of them wore fur, but they used every part of the animal... even the sinew and bones... and they killed only what was needed to survive. Wasting is disrespectful to the spirit of the animal and to the sacrifice it made, and that... as my Grandfather would say... is bad medicine.

    And before I'm accused of it... no, I DO NOT support PETA. I do have strong convictions about this because of my heritage and the wisdom my Native American elders have passed on to me.
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    Mar 26, 2008 8:54 PM GMT
    Look at this video and then tell me you like Fur

    http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/video.asp?video=fur_farm&Player=wm&speed=med

    ... there's no way of knowing where the fur comes from, I know Peta is a little extreme, but the message has to get out somehow
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    Mar 26, 2008 9:06 PM GMT
    you're being purposefully provocative here, mrventuru.

    i'm antifur, i'm green, and i'm flabbergasted at your arguments.

    "but let's not get silly..." you knew it was too late for that before you ever hit the submit key.
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    Mar 26, 2008 9:09 PM GMT
    wysiwyg84 saidI think I'm a little dumber for having read that



    Yeah, but you are cute as hell!
  • MikePhilPerez

    Posts: 4357

    Mar 26, 2008 9:10 PM GMT
    vonsooner saidUhhh.... what dude wears fur?


    Gay dudes.

    Anyway, is hippie on holidays icon_question.gif