NYT's Series on Rampage Killers in 2000: 'Study of 102 killers shows serious mental health problems with little cultural influence'

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 13, 2011 7:48 AM GMT
    While more information continues to emerge on Loughner, there are some who insist that public discourse has something to do with the murders despite little evidence - and in fact evidence to the contrary. According to Loughner's friends: "He did not watch TV. He disliked the news. He didn’t listen to political radio. He didn’t take sides. He wasn’t on the left. He wasn’t on the right."

    As it turns out the New York Times, reviewed a study of 102 rampage killers - and if these details are borne out, Loughner appears to resemble much of these other killers.

    http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C02EEDC1231F93AA35757C0A9669C8B63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all

    The Times found, however, that the debate may have largely overlooked a critical issue: At least half of the killers showed signs of serious mental health problems. ...

    *While the killings have caused many people to point to the violent aspects of the culture, a closer look shows little evidence that video games, movies or television encouraged many of the attacks. In only 6 of the 100 cases did the killers have a known interest in violent video games. Seven other killers showed an interest in violent movies.
  • musclmed

    Posts: 3271

    Jan 13, 2011 8:25 AM GMT
    NYT articleNor are they peculiarly American. The best scientific thinking, in a field that is admittedly understudied, now holds that multiple, public murder occurs at a fairly constant level across time and cultures. What some people call ''running amok,'' a term first used in Malaysia to describe frenzied, indiscriminate killing, has been observed in many cultures, with weapons as varied as grenades and tanks in addition to high-powered handguns.



    I think thats interesting. Seems to show this is an unfortunate reality embedded within our humanity.
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Jan 13, 2011 11:28 AM GMT
    Still tryin' your damnedest eh?
    Was this guy some right wing placard carrying nut job?
    No he was a seriously mentally ill man
    but he didn't live in a bubble either nor was he dropped from the sky
    He went after a member of the United States congress
    This wasn't indiscriminate in any way shape or form
    he was fixated on the belief that the government was after total control
    and who's the person espousing that belief every freakin' line-long day ?
    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTOLCqWadwTsjcWAl0Mn2n

    That's who

    Oh but wait ......
    it's a coincidence that there has been violent rhetoric going on for TWO years before this occurred
    a coincidence that Jared's philosophy coincides with the rightwing's
    a coincidence that gun imagery was employed against this very same congress woman
    a coincidence that Arizona has some of the most relaxed gun laws in the United States
    and a coincidence that the same state has been embroiled in political turmoil and in the News for months and months

    See ? Just a COINCIDENCE icon_biggrin.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 13, 2011 11:53 AM GMT
    GQjock saidStill tryin' your damnedest eh?
    Was this guy some right wing placard carrying nut job?
    No he was a seriously mentally ill man
    but he didn't live in a bubble either nor was he dropped from the sky
    He went after a member of the United States congress
    This wasn't indiscriminate in any way shape or form
    he was fixated on the belief that the government was after total control
    and who's the person espousing that belief every freakin' line-long day ?
    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTOLCqWadwTsjcWAl0Mn2n

    That's who

    Oh but wait ......
    it's a coincidence that there has been violent rhetoric going on for TWO years before this occurred
    a coincidence that Jared's philosophy coincides with the rightwing's
    a coincidence that gun imagery was employed against this very same congress woman
    a coincidence that Arizona has some of the most relaxed gun laws in the United States
    and a coincidence that the same state has been embroiled in political turmoil and in the News for months and months

    See ? Just a COINCIDENCE icon_biggrin.gif


    I have to ask - have you even bothered to keep up with the news? Let's take this one by one:

    "it's a coincidence that there has been violent rhetoric going on for TWO years before this occurred" As it turns out he may have been fixated on the congresswoman as early as 2007 when he had an autograph from her and told a classmate he found her stupid.

    "a coincidence that Jared's philosophy coincides with the rightwing's" This would be the same philosphy that hates religion particularly Christianity and was vehemently anti-war? Or perhaps it was his war against "grammar nazis"?

    "a coincidence that gun imagery was employed against this very same congress woman": According to his former classmates he didn't watch the news.

    "a coincidence that Arizona has some of the most relaxed gun laws in the United States". As it turns out the Sheriff had forewarning that he had been harassing and threatening other people in the town but the Sheriff had assured them that it was being taken care of and discouraged them pressing charges given that Loughner had an aunt who worked with the county. There were a few opportunities and run ins with the law where the issues were overlooked with speculation this had to do with his aunt.

    The question remains - is this a failure that is a result of lax gun laws? Any objective party would suggest that it is far more directly a failure of law enforcement here. I would add that this also explains the demagoguery of the local Sheriff in denouncing those like Palin and Beck following the shootings in an attempt to deflect responsibility and blame on himself.

    "and a coincidence that the same state has been embroiled in political turmoil and in the News for months and months" Ah just like the US in general since its inception and any number of other states. You seem to think these times are exceptional when they're not.

    It's remarkable how there are those like yourself who cling to the fantasy that this is somehow the fault of Sarah Palin or some right wing punditry. It's a sick sick fantasy that you seem to bitterly cling to and why those like you will be further pushed into the political wilderness. You do far more of a disservice to your views than anything Palin or Glenn Beck could ever do or say. While it is disappointing, it also does not surprise me that you haven't directly been rebuked by some of your more moderate counterparts.

    Better luck next time trying to exploit another tragedy for your own sick political games.
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Jan 13, 2011 12:50 PM GMT
    sick political games. ?



    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRbX3IlfBPu4XB6QfGkCs5

    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTTOywJfMnMmnMp5rbjClf

    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQysZNRfBGV-Yy3fnC8xSe

    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQek2WNtJejq2vxVIVuls-

    So stop with the excuses
    Play with fire and you get burned ...... hint
    Bacitracin works wonders
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 13, 2011 1:26 PM GMT
    Yup, awareness of mental illness is low and people just usually ignore the signs that somebody might be mentally ill.
    Before this violent media culture (video games/movies), schizophrenics probably didn't act out nearly as much violently. Maybe an occasional stabbing or rant in the newspaper, but not shooting into crowds. This is just my hypothesis though.
    So, since we're never going to get rid of violent imagery (which sells merchandise), the logical thing to do would be to make the public more aware of what signs of mental illness are, and allow us to catch those mentally ill early on to treat them.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 13, 2011 3:32 PM GMT
    from OP articleSociety has turned to law enforcement to resolve the rampage killings that have become almost a staple of the nightly news. There has been an increasing call for greater security in schools and in the workplace. But a closer look shows that these cases may have more to do with society's lack of knowledge of mental health issues, rather than a lack of security. In case after case, family members, teachers and mental health professionals missed or dismissed signs of deterioration.

    Whether they happen in a school, in a mall, in a crowded train or in a workplace, these crimes have been characterized in a language of incomprehension -- ''senseless,'' ''random,'' ''sudden,'' ''crazy.''


    Sounds familiar, doesn't it?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 13, 2011 3:35 PM GMT
    Some people you can save with culture from going insane. Others you cannot. The hardwiring of their maladapt brain is too ossified to change with external influence.
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    Jan 13, 2011 3:36 PM GMT
    Here's one argument to cut down the firepower:
    OPWhat is left is the closest thing there is to a census of rampage killings -- about one-tenth of one percent of all killings.

    And it shows that in the 1990's, they increased.

    Their number remained fairly consistent from 1976 to 1989, averaging about 23 a year, only once going above 30. But between 1990 and 1997, the last year for which data was available, the number averaged over 34, dipping below 30 only once, in 1994.
    ...
    There are many possible explanations. But the shift coincides, roughly at least, with a trend of increasing availability of more lethal weapons. In the late 1980's, the production of semiautomatic pistols in the United States overtook the production of revolvers, and with their larger ammunition magazines and faster reloading, semiautomatics have added to the potential for mayhem.

    The effect may be apparent in the number of deaths per murderous incident, which suddenly increased in 1993 and has remained high since, according to the analysis of F.B.I. data by The Times.
  • musclmed

    Posts: 3271

    Jan 13, 2011 3:54 PM GMT
    GQjock saidStill tryin' your damnedest eh?
    Was this guy some right wing placard carrying nut job?
    No he was a seriously mentally ill man
    but he didn't live in a bubble either nor was he dropped from the sky
    He went after a member of the United States congress
    This wasn't indiscriminate in any way shape or form
    he was fixated on the belief that the government was after total control
    and who's the person espousing that belief every freakin' line-long day ?
    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTOLCqWadwTsjcWAl0Mn2n

    That's who

    Oh but wait ......
    it's a coincidence that there has been violent rhetoric going on for TWO years before this occurred
    a coincidence that Jared's philosophy coincides with the rightwing's
    a coincidence that gun imagery was employed against this very same congress woman
    a coincidence that Arizona has some of the most relaxed gun laws in the United States
    and a coincidence that the same state has been embroiled in political turmoil and in the News for months and months

    See ? Just a COINCIDENCE icon_biggrin.gif


    No according to his girlfriend he was on mushrooms.

    There is rhetoric on both sides, both use unnecessary imagery and violence to get points across.

    Take a page from the president, lets rise about this stuff. I believe by some changes in his senior staff he can rise above this sort of stuff.

    Rahm Emanuel, lived for political fights, ( hes said it on the house floor) - now new chief of staff

    I would answer your stream of coincidences, that consider for a moment you only notice whats on the right side of you, because your biased not to notice the left side of you. This rancor has been going on for a while. We can take an opportunity to tone it down. But in Jarrod Loughner we have a mentally ill man, who was into mushrooms and lucid dreaming, who as per his friends who have really no reason to lie wasnt political.

    When you cherrypick and ignore the heap of evidence to the contrary that this somehow is because of right wing rhetoric you accomplish one goal. You establish yourself as ultra partisan.



    Sure you are allowed to see "signs" in everything. Know that most dont because as in this NYT piece says, there is no reason in 2011 to start blaming a rampage on anything or anyone.