Dating A Guy Who Is Not Out

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    Jan 14, 2011 12:27 AM GMT
    Alright so I'm sure this topic has been discussed and posted many times before now but I would just like to hear some different opinions since everyone has different situational aspects.

    I'm a Junior in college, and still not out at all. I mean there have been a few speculations here and there throughout my life, but overall I am still 100% in the closet. I have my own reasons for this and I am still confident it is just not the right time to come out.

    I've never been the kind of guy to be in a serious relationship or try to start one, with girls or guys. Not because it is too much work but I am just a pretty independent person in general. and I dont like being tied down. But lately, Ive started to have thoughts that a relationship could be good for me which has lead me to desire a steady relationship with a guy. My main worry though is not being able to put my all into it, and when I decide to committ to something I always put great effort into it. So.....

    Should I give it a try? Should I start my search for a good guy? Is it unfair to my partner if he is out and I am not?

    And if you are out, have you/would you date a guy that is as deep in the closet as I am?

    Just wanna hear some input guys...I'd really appreciate it
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    Jan 14, 2011 1:27 AM GMT
    Do you have any gay friends at all? NOBODY knows you're gay/bi?

    The reason I ask is because when I first started dating a guy I was also 100% closeted. NOBODY (but the people online) knew I was gay. This was very frustrating for both him and I because:

    - When he was visiting me I couldn't introduce him to my friends.
    - I had nobody to talk to about our problems.
    - I was scared to be seen with him in public.

    Etc... There are a lot of ups and downs to dating a guy while still closeted.
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    Jan 14, 2011 1:37 AM GMT
    lol i've been thinking the same, like how would it feel for the guy thats out, and well i guess i would present them to my friends but just like a friend if he is a masculine guy, but idk i havent been in that situation, but like i would like to have a relationship. But then there it comes the points "theycallme_" pointed out
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    Jan 14, 2011 1:40 AM GMT
    Hey Guys,

    OK...this is a great topic for discussion and I have experience with it.

    In college, I did not come out to anyone, though a few friends speculated and I experimented with one other guy, I did not come out for all of the reasons you mentioned. Since then, I came out (now dating a great guy), but in the beginning dated a guy in graduate school and not OUT at all. For all of the reasons theycallme mentioned, I could not speak to anyone at his school about us. More importantly, my job could not be comprised because of my position with the government. LOVELY right? Anyways, I took the bull by the horns and basically said enough's enough because he did not want to come out. Now, he's out and no one care's actually they prefer that he's out because he's happier. He's happier too.

    Now your questions:

    Do you have a gay alliance group or better yet a group of friends or a friend you feel comfortable discussing your sexuality with other than a possibly bf?

    If so, then talk to them about your personal feeling and insecurities about coming out and ask them about their personal view and the vibes of the overall campus to gays. (trust me this is very different than whatever you see) Friends are great for this.

    Do you think you will pull away from a person in the middle of the relationship after you begin dating if things get rough or complicated? As theycallme mentioned, it can feel very lonely and frustrating when you cannot go to anyone.

    Because you're just coming out, how comfortable are you at the possibility of a guy not feeling completely sure about coming out? This is something that happens often because as all men on RJ will tell you its hard coming out, so there are always feelings of resentment and frustration, etc. this is always a personal barrier, but easier to deal with when you're ready and prepared with a bit of communication and strength.

    I hope this sheds a bit of light on your situation. By all means go for it and see how great and wonderful it is, but always know the feelings of coming out when you're out vacillate like a pendulum.

    I call it the bipolar period of one's life. Sorry, but its true. In the end its completely rewarding.

    Mike
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    Jan 14, 2011 2:13 AM GMT
    I'm in this situation right now and it's causing me a lot of trouble. I can't talk to anybody about us because he doesn't want anyone to know that he's seeing me. At the same time I'm wondering to myself, am I really that much into the guy that I'm prepared to keep sneaking around and making excuses to meet him?
    It's wearing me out so I'm not really sure.
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    Jan 14, 2011 3:07 AM GMT
    Yeah, the whole getting out thing sucks cause you get so nervous.

    I'm a junior at a college that is a little more than 55% Conservative. What I hear is live and let live, I've yet to have someone tell me that being gay is a sin. Some of my friends don't want gays to marry, but thats it.

    I slowly came out my freshman year (while I was on the Frisbee team). By half-way through my sophomore year I was completely out.

    Life's hard, its better when you're out. That way, you don't have to deal with the bullshit of "oh yeah, that girl is hot." Now you can say "She is hot, but her boyfriend is hotter." For me, that feels a lot better.

    As for dating, no one knew I was gay till I was out. It makes the dating pool seem bigger cause more gays that you wouldn't know are there might come out.
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    Jan 14, 2011 3:39 AM GMT
    I'm in a similar situation!

    I'm a junior as well, but I started "coming out" around sophomore year; now, about 12 people know (including 2 faculty members).

    My campus is very conservative, but with a huge party, Greek, and hook-up culture. With about 2200 students, it's a small school, and people talk.

    Gays who are out on campus are treated very well, but there's this underlying ostracization or avoidance, especially from the straight male students. I can only think of about 5 out students. There's something wrong with that picture.

    With my environment, I'm pretty much forced to be discreet if I want any relationship; If I were out, I'm sure potential guys would avoid me completely to protect themselves. On top of that, I have a nonexistent gaydar. I really want to get some relationship practice here before I go out into the real world.

    A lesbian friend recently told me that she has given up on finding love at our school. "It's just not going to happen." It makes me sadface.
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    Jan 14, 2011 4:27 AM GMT
    I wouldn't date a guy who was not out at least some. It's a step backward, and it wouldn't work.

    I know what you guys are going through though. My freshman/sophomore years I was not out. I came out and did LGBTA stuff my junior and senior years, and then I regressed my super senior year because I got frustrated at not finding love while being out either. So I recloseted because that's how you could get hookups online (no one would hookup with someone who was out, so it was a disadvantage (not at my current school or at my undergrad U). I stopped going to the LGBTA events because I didn't really feel like I got along with them either except for our sexuality, and if you're not sexually interested in any of them, then why hang out right?

    As a grad student, I'm still kinda in my super senior shoes. I am out to a girl who confronted me about it after forcing me to do boyfriend shit with her (I just wanted a friend, but that didn't happen), I don't hide it, but I still really can't make any progress in this area and don't know which way to go. I'm sure my classmates either think I'm weird or gay (not drinking part so who knows).

    My parents know, but we never discuss anything openly really. They try to get me to go to church, even if it is a gay friendly one, but I don't really want to go at all since the church was anti-helpful/hurtful in the process altogether. I have a lot of painful emotions associated with church, and so obviously, I don't want to go.

    Just like with the LGBTA group, I don't really feel like I get along with straight people or gay people and don't like clubbing or drinking.
  • tuffguyndc

    Posts: 4437

    Jan 14, 2011 4:36 AM GMT
    listen, i say explore it. there are a lot of great guys out there that are cool with it. who knows he may help you with coming out if you decide to. i am not out and i have met guys were cool with it and i have met some that are not cool with it. i look at it this way. its there lost not mine. good luck buddy and enjoy your life dude. you are in college you should be having a blast not really thinking about a relationship
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    Jan 14, 2011 5:57 AM GMT

    Nice that most of you that have responded have a similar story and close in age. Finding out you are not alone in your peer group is important and sharing is also. You are not alone and not the first to go through what you are feeling.

    At the risk of sounding fatherly or grandfatherly but it is something I have grown into...... sort of. I kind of moved into the daddy phase early in life but that is another tread.

    Take a big breath relax and start at the beginning. Just meet a guy talk and see if you like him and he likes you. If so..... go on a date or dates and have fun. Oh did I say have fun OK! Talk laugh be who you are at this moment in your life and let him be him. Things will move but what direction will be up to both of you. It is time to start developing dating skills and beyond.

    Life love dating and relationship ( good and bad ) aren't recipes that can be handed out.

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    Jan 14, 2011 6:26 AM GMT
    How will he even know you exist if you're not out?
    icon_confused.gif
    Sorry- but the days of the handkerchief are over- so unless you plan on tapping underneath bathroom stalls I doubt you'll find him.
    icon_evil.gif
    If it's not the right time to come out- then it's definitely not the right time to start dating. Wait until you're ready before you get some else emotionally invested.
    icon_twisted.gif
    I'm upset because my stomach is.
    icon_cry.gif
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    Jan 14, 2011 6:28 AM GMT
    Is it really doable to use criteria at all when looking to date someone?
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    Jan 14, 2011 6:38 AM GMT
    if you want someone got to go for it just got to explain your situation if the person can understand they are worth being with if not move on a relationship is between you and who your with why does the world need to be involved
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    Jan 14, 2011 6:41 AM GMT
    I would never date anyone who wasn't out, just to much crap. Makes one tired and lonely. I understand that your not ready to come out, but you can not expect anybody to keep them selves quite in the closet with you if they are out, that would be selfish on your part

    When I was still coming out I had a boyfriend and a girlfriend, eventually I couldn't do it anymore and I felt bad for my girlfriend. It wasn't fair that she didn't know. I dumped them both especially the guy, he was so deep in the closet. He drove me nuts, but it was my fault for putting up with it.
  • spades

    Posts: 227

    Jan 14, 2011 10:07 AM GMT
    I'm in the situation where I am out (but still discreet) and my BF is still in the closet to his family and a lot of his (straight) friends. He has no problem if I introduce him to one of my friends as my boyfriend, but can't do it to his.

    It has its little problems (he has to lie to his family when he spends the night with me, I can't spend the night at his place as he lives with his brother etc) but we've been dating for over a year now, and it's still going great!

    Something that helps is that neither of us is into PDA icon_smile.gif
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    Jan 14, 2011 10:22 AM GMT
    I'm glad so many posters on here 'came out' with their own stories. My heart goes out to you as I know as a formerly married man how hard it is to always be looking over your shoulder...wondering.

    I work in a large GLBT library in a major city and many young people come from far and wide to 'check out' the place. At least two or three young people come in and confess to me that they are 100% in the closet and no one knows. I smile and say, "I understand" but inside I'm going, WTF? The gaydar these guys radiate is unbelievable. I'm sure their friends already know, not suspect, know, because str8 men talk about the taste and smell of pussy, have that microsecond response to tits...and these boys are looking at pecs and crotches.

    So my advice to the OP is take it slow, find another guy your age through social networking and start talking.

    And oh, one last thing.. If you make the decision to come out...it is easier than being outed....the latter always happens by the way...eventually.

    Good luck

    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSbUHEuonJJSQVJMzVCIWI
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    Jan 14, 2011 9:28 PM GMT
    The main reason I even question the thought of having a boyfriend is because I am not a selfish person at all. So for me I think it has to be one or the other. I have one friend I talk to that knows about me but that is it. Finding a relationship now is not really something I worry about, just ponder about from time to time. So I thought you all would be the best to ask since many have been in similar situations as myself. A relationship is definitely something I want to give a try, but not if it is unfair to the other person. Ideally, I would like to find someone more like myself at first just because I think it would be easier for both of us if we are both still closeted. In my opinion, it could work out better that way. I guess for now I'll stick to finding guys on sites such as realjock to alleviate some of the pressure and inhibitions that are stuck in the closet with me icon_neutral.gif
  • TrentGrad

    Posts: 1541

    Jan 14, 2011 9:41 PM GMT
    utvol3 saidAlright so I'm sure this topic has been discussed and posted many times before now but I would just like to hear some different opinions since everyone has different situational aspects.

    I'm a Junior in college, and still not out at all. I mean there have been a few speculations here and there throughout my life, but overall I am still 100% in the closet. I have my own reasons for this and I am still confident it is just not the right time to come out.

    I've never been the kind of guy to be in a serious relationship or try to start one, with girls or guys. Not because it is too much work but I am just a pretty independent person in general. and I dont like being tied down. But lately, Ive started to have thoughts that a relationship could be good for me which has lead me to desire a steady relationship with a guy. My main worry though is not being able to put my all into it, and when I decide to committ to something I always put great effort into it. So.....

    Should I give it a try? Should I start my search for a good guy? Is it unfair to my partner if he is out and I am not?

    And if you are out, have you/would you date a guy that is as deep in the closet as I am?

    Just wanna hear some input guys...I'd really appreciate it


    To get straight to the point, yes it's unfair, and it's also quite disrespectful to your prospective boyfriend. I mean, think about it: how would you like to be someone's dirty little secret?

    It need not be dirty, and it need not be a secret. We're in the 21st Century, and the homophobes, while they are somewhat prolific, are still a dying breed!

    If you're going to engage in a relationship, but you can't be proud of that relationship, ultimately all you're going to do is put yourself through strain, and hurt the person you apparently love.

    If you're going to be a bf, come out...otherwise, leave the relationships to those who are brave enough to live out in the open.
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    Jan 14, 2011 10:02 PM GMT
    utvol3 saidJust wanna hear some input guys...I'd really appreciate it

    I've dated guys who had various levels of "outness" from totally out to deeply closeted. At least they all did admit their gayness to me and some of my gay friends, no cases of denial, but a few did hide it from all straights. Being totally out is much my preference, like my late & current partners, and in fact I don't think I could have married someone who wasn't out.

    It's a tough thing to ask most out gays to go along with. Maybe if neither of you is out then it'd sorta be mutually reinforcing, and not a burden on the other guy. I have known a few gay couples like that, basically living a hidden and almost entirely straight life together, virtually invisible to the gay community.

    And some of the crazy & comical situations I'd find myself in with these guys I dated! Would be like being in the middle of some screwball episode of "I Love "Lucy" where she has to go to ridiculous lengths to hide some secret from Ricky. Dodging people, quickly inventing cover stories, avoiding some public places, driving indirect routes to evade being seen, guarding our words against making accidental admissions, etc. Leading a secret double life is not a lot of fun, I'd rather watch Lucy do it (and always fail).
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    Jan 14, 2011 10:39 PM GMT
    Bigsmiles saidI work in a large GLBT library in a major city and many young people come from far and wide to 'check out' the place. At least two or three young people come in and confess to me that they are 100% in the closet and no one knows. I smile and say, "I understand" but inside I'm going, WTF? The gaydar these guys radiate is unbelievable.

    Naturally I know that library, and the good and important work it does in our gay community. It's a resource on this very topic, and I've directed many young men & women there, especially when I volunteered at the old GLCC that shared the former building with it. I therefore think I understand where you're coming from on this, and really I direct my comments here more to some of the other contributors.

    I usually urge prudence in these cases, because they're all different, one size does not fit all. I wouldn't rush into anything that can't be undone if need be, until a personal "risk assessment" has been performed and a plan of action made. I agree being out is preferable, something to work towards achieving, while making sure we don't do ourselves more harm than good through impatience and being ill-prepared.

    The OP suggests that same careful approach is happening when he says: "I have my own reasons for this and I am still confident it is just not the right time to come out." In the meantime, though, dating may have to wait a little while longer for him, or perhaps not be as enjoyable & rewarding in the short term as it truly can eventually be.
  • charmr

    Posts: 233

    Jan 14, 2011 10:41 PM GMT
    fivetenn saidHey Guys,

    OK...this is a great topic for discussion and I have experience with it.

    In college, I did not come out to anyone, though a few friends speculated and I experimented with one other guy, I did not come out for all of the reasons you mentioned. Since then, I came out (now dating a great guy), but in the beginning dated a guy in graduate school and not OUT at all. For all of the reasons theycallme mentioned, I could not speak to anyone at his school about us. More importantly, my job could not be comprised because of my position with the government. LOVELY right? Anyways, I took the bull by the horns and basically said enough's enough because he did not want to come out. Now, he's out and no one care's actually they prefer that he's out because he's happier. He's happier too.

    Now your questions:

    Do you have a gay alliance group or better yet a group of friends or a friend you feel comfortable discussing your sexuality with other than a possibly bf?

    If so, then talk to them about your personal feeling and insecurities about coming out and ask them about their personal view and the vibes of the overall campus to gays. (trust me this is very different than whatever you see) Friends are great for this.

    Do you think you will pull away from a person in the middle of the relationship after you begin dating if things get rough or complicated? As theycallme mentioned, it can feel very lonely and frustrating when you cannot go to anyone.

    Because you're just coming out, how comfortable are you at the possibility of a guy not feeling completely sure about coming out? This is something that happens often because as all men on RJ will tell you its hard coming out, so there are always feelings of resentment and frustration, etc. this is always a personal barrier, but easier to deal with when you're ready and prepared with a bit of communication and strength.

    I hope this sheds a bit of light on your situation. By all means go for it and see how great and wonderful it is, but always know the feelings of coming out when you're out vacillate like a pendulum.

    I call it the bipolar period of one's life. Sorry, but its true. In the end its completely rewarding.

    Mike



    HEY GUYS,

    Grandpa's here with grandfatherly advice -- Don't go away. I've been around the block a few times -- in and out, single and married, now "single again" the last 25 years. All your contributions are helpful and Mike's is closest to the answer ! The problem is not easy. You need some professional help [Don't be embarrassed to seek some]. Individual therapy or a support group, or both. A support group might be better, preferably with a professional facilitator, to keep the discussion on track, You need input from guys similarly situated , ALL of their stories and 'solutions' are helpful, giving you a broader view of things. And who knows, you could meet Mr. Right at these group meetings. If not Mr. Right, maybe a contemporary friend that you can talk to. Meet and see frequently as many as possible, romantic or platonic. Be involved with people! God bless you all and good luck! Danny
  • Syphon

    Posts: 366

    Jan 14, 2011 11:23 PM GMT
    I dated a100% closeted guy once, it went really badly because of it, so I'm not going to repeat that experience, I felt like he was dragging me back into the closet a bit. Wasn't really fair.

    There's a reason I'm out, it's so that I don't have to deal with all that shit again. No, I'm not out to everyone, but that's because I don't care to make a public announcement when it's nobody's business. I don't want to go out and fear someone 'discovering' our relationship or something.

    If the guy is semi closeted, sure whatever, just as long as he's not completely paranoid and I have to sneak around to see him.
  • Caguy10

    Posts: 50

    Jan 14, 2011 11:30 PM GMT
    Hey,
    I dont know if this has been said already by another person. I read a few comments but not all.
    Here's my opinion, and having been in your situation before, i've experienced the different possibilities...

    If only one of you is out its gonna make for a difficult relationship. the only quality time you'll ever get to spend is behind closed doors, literally. Anywhere in public, you may feel like someone's watching and pull away. Or you just may not feel comfortable simply holding hands walking down the street. It'll be an obstacle in your relationship and that in itself became stressful for me, not to mention the stress of a relationship already. Even on the phone i had to isolate myself so no one heard/speculated anything.... It'll become a task and it was not enjoyable for me after very little time because I couldn't be open about it.

    All of this also relates to my first gay relationship because neither one of us was out and we were each others' first. If you can remember the difficulties of a relationship and add all kinds of obstacles of trying to keep it a secret, its the perfect recipe for something not to work out in the long run...but you know what, its only my experience and opinion. Give it a shot though and best of luck! =) Keep me posted, im interested to see how this works out!
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    May 03, 2011 12:16 AM GMT
    Yea, pretty heavy, though. Why don't you just go with it and see what happens. I'm sure you will meet someone where both of y'all can figure it out together without going into it with some predetermined end. icon_biggrin.gif
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    May 04, 2011 8:03 AM GMT
    I think there are a couple of things going on here. You are getting to a point where you are ready to have a gay relationship, but you can't be honest with your friends and family about your homosexuality. It creates this tension between who you actually are and the image you put forward. I can imagine a lot of potential partners are going to have a problem with that. If you do get into a relationship with someone, you have to be upfront with them that you are 100% closeted and exactly what that will mean for your relationship.

    There is a reason that it's really difficult for homosexuals to stay closeted for 100% of their lives. You need to think about why and I think having a relationship is going to bring this into a painful focus, especially if you are going to date someone who is out themselves.

    Remember that being gay means you have to "out" yourself everyday. It's not the "norm" in our society and it can take a while to remove that social programming that what is normal is right.

    I think you should take some time to think about your situation and what really is holding you back from coming out. I highly doubt it's just that you dont' want your friends and family to know. In my experience the biggest problem we have with coming out is that our friends and family might abandon us. Are they really are friends and family if they are going to do that?

    The answer I came up with was no. If they left me it was something wrong with THEM, not me. I did have a few friends who stopped talking to me but I was 100% right, it was them, not me. My closest friends supported me and my mom tries her best, but I think in her mind I never actually kiss other men ;)