Gays and Mormonism

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    Mar 26, 2008 9:27 PM GMT
    This is long. I warned you...Let me also add that this is my personal view. I might be wrong, i might be correct, and of course some of u may disagree.
    -------------------------------------------------

    I just got done with an hour convo over the phone with my friend. We somehow took a turn into talking about gays in utah from our previous topic about me falling in love with a girl.

    I always knew why i could never sustain a relationship with someone in utah but i never really sought out to put it in words, and as i explained to Mark what i thought the reason is, i was actually quite surprised at how i worded my theory, or how my perception of the utah gay community just right now changed so many views i had about some people over here, and somehow made me more content, as if I have made a big discovery.

    I went on explaining how Mormonism in Utah plays a big important role in many families, if not all. Having been around many sects of religion, i would have to say the Mormons are by far the most conservative and the most "troubled". By "troubled" i mean most kids grow up lost if they don't follow what the church has taught them, they then have to find themselves at the age of 21, instead of finding themselves throughout their teenage years. There exists a discriminatory notion in most utah families, something i somehow called Internal or "Cold" Discrimination. Utah families for the most part will seem very happy, very welcoming, very outgoing and they claim to be very liberal (Utah is a republican state mind you). That all is just a mask they wear, as the church teaches them to accept all "children of god" and to to not let hatred fill their hearts, hence the ecstasy effect plastered on most Mormon faces. They seem to accept you when in fact they don't. They accept u and smile at you and listen to you because they are told to, but do they really feel that way? Rarely. Then again doesn't god judge on who u are on the inside, not who you fake out to be? thats a different subject. Hence, they treat you kind and gentle and tell you that are welcome in their land, but that is not true, if anything, they would rather have a land full of only Mormons. That is the underlying problem with most gays in Utah.

    Gays in utah will not only find some foreigners attractive, but they would love to hit it right off with them, go full throttle and cum as they please, but do they dare go any further than that? HA! All this coming from experience, most guys try to solicit sex from me, and many compliment me on my looks (which is very flattering), but it ends there. These boys were not only taught that sex was a sin and not allowed till you are married, but the notion that sex (when u are married) is generally allowed with another Mormon, therefore excluding every alien being to enter the walls they have built around themselves. Utah gay men will sleep with you, take you out, or even make u a regular fuck buddy, but never a serious relationship should be build between him and the non-utah-mormon (or look alike. i.e. blond hair white boy). The mother alone is devastated that her son is gay, but bring a foreigner in and introduce him as ur partner! There is a free visit to the Intensive Care Unit at the hospital.

    By all means, i am not offended one bit, nothing, if anything at all, offends me. Rarely does something make my heart bleed in hatred towards someone, and this certainly doesn't come close. These men live in a box, rather in a room, surrounded by four high walls, that cannot, except at extreme hazardous methods, be broken down. They do not see beyond those walls, they cant see! And they are not to blame! I blame the builder who so brilliantly placed block over block till the walls have been built in order to protect that child they had discharged into this world, this Mormon world. What more reflects on a child than his upbringing? Some factors do play a role, but not as affectively as the household upbringing. How would you expect a child to accept what his mother has not accepted? Our values and ethics are based on the values and ethics set in our household, so do i really blame the child for turning out the man that he is or do I blame his parents? Or maybe their parents? Or the parents before that?!

    It is of good reason for me to think that this phenomenon that plays out in Utah's society is heavily weighed down by religion, and what other way to change it than to change the religious constrictions themselves. And how unreasonable does that sound? Maybe that is I am unable to make friends with many utahns, maybe that is why most foreigners here form their own social groups? I have alot of utah friends, all utahns, all ex Mormons though, all who decided to rebel against their parent's upbringing. I have traveled to many places and i have encountered many Americans not from Utah, and they all seem to be who they are. If they don't like you, they say so. If they like you, they say so as well. They don't have a preset notion on what who they date is supposed to be like, they just live life as it throws itself at them. Even the new yorker that spits on me on the street would seem to be more realistic in his vision than a Utahn who might smile at me as I walk down the sidewalk.

    Again, by no means do I hate the people that inhibit this state, on the contrary, i welcome them with open arms, just because I was raised to, because i saw my mother help the beggar kid that came up to our car as we drove down the street in heavy traffic, or the concierge's wife that needed help raising her child as she was too young to handle that responsibility, or even welcome my boyfriend into her house and cook for us while keeping us company. No, i dont hate these people, it just fascinates me how much religion has played here, to the extent that even the gay man (who is considered as the rebellious one in this situation), applies those discriminatory beliefs onto others. They don't discriminate against you sexually (in my case), in fact, they love the sexual part of it all, by they discriminate against you being a part of them.
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    Mar 26, 2008 11:06 PM GMT
    Well, I say we fling a hundred of you against that wall. The sheer weight of your cuteness is sure to melt the breach.

    To all things, it's just a matter of time. Utah Mormons built their world for the long haul, but we've been humans for far longer. It's inevitable the walls will come crashing down.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19136

    Mar 26, 2008 11:23 PM GMT
    All I know is that my ex-roommate was a gay Mormon from Utah and he is one of my all-time favorite roommates -- a real quality guy, loaded with personality, wit, and intelligence -- and I feel blessed to have met him and have him for a friend to this day.
  • jarhead5536

    Posts: 1348

    Mar 26, 2008 11:42 PM GMT
    Mormons I have known seem to be the just the coolest, smartest, happiest, most stable, together, grounded, centered people you will ever meet, until you scratch the surface. Moudi is dead-on...

    "Miss Thing got some issues over there..."

    Wesley Snipes, channeling Noxeema Jackson
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    Mar 27, 2008 12:05 AM GMT
    jarhead5536 saidMormons I have known seem to be the just the coolest, smartest, happiest, most stable, together, grounded, centered people you will ever meet, until you scratch the surface. Moudi is dead-on...

    "Miss Thing got some issues over there..."

    Wesley Snipes, channeling Noxeema Jackson
    For this one agrees. How One knows only to well this pleasant look, but don't look to deep. One spent many years as a Mormon. Now one is a Mormen... Yet Since the church is yet to release one, and one has sent off their letter. One is still a Mormon; LDS.

    But Us Australian Mormons, Are not the same as the American kind, as we are Aussie, and live of the world, and not just in it.. But One still knows this look on the face. I even have a Mormon Smile! lol. But then are they any worse than the Southern Fundamentalist Christian. But they are outwardly hateful people, and the Mormons are not.
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    Mar 27, 2008 1:12 AM GMT
    Pattison said[quote][cite]jarhead5536 said[/cite]Mormons I have known seem to be the just the coolest, smartest, happiest, most stable, together, grounded, centered people you will ever meet, until you scratch the surface. Moudi is dead-on...

    "Miss Thing got some issues over there..."

    Wesley Snipes, channeling Noxeema Jackson
    For this one agrees. How One knows only to well this pleasant look, but don't look to deep. One spent many years as a Mormon. Now one is a Mormen... Yet Since the church is yet to release one, and one has sent off their letter. One is still a Mormon; LDS.

    But Us Australian Mormons, Are not the same as the American kind, as we are Aussie, and live of the world, and not just in it.. But One still knows this look on the face. I even have a Mormon Smile! lol. But then are they any worse than the Southern Fundamentalist Christian. But they are outwardly hateful people, and the Mormons are not.
    [/quote] PS. With out any doubt. The Mormons, if able to, would wall off all of Utah, and keep all non Mormons out. Section 132 Of the D&C. talks about plural marriage, polygamy. One has two bf's, still some Mormon about one. One believes in polygamy.lol
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    Mar 27, 2008 1:23 AM GMT
    I have family in Utah. They are not Mormons and have an interesting insight into Utah. Salt Lake City is an interesting place. There are enclaves of Mormons in it, but the city is generally fairly progressive and their mayor Rocky Anderson is freakin' awesome. But the non-Mormons in Utah are as clannish as the Mormons themselves.

    My relatives have trained their dogs to, on the command word 'missionary', growl at the door.
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    Mar 27, 2008 1:54 AM GMT
    MunchingZombie saidI have family in Utah. They are not Mormons and have an interesting insight into Utah. Salt Lake City is an interesting place. There are enclaves of Mormons in it, but the city is generally fairly progressive and their mayor Rocky Anderson is freakin' awesome. But the non-Mormons in Utah are as clannish as the Mormons themselves.

    My relatives have trained their dogs to, on the command word 'missionary', growl at the door.
    Not many Mormons live in Salt lake City anymore! You have to go dawn to Provo, or St George for this. But dawn in st George, you also have the break away Church, whom do openly practice polygamy.
  • asupas

    Posts: 234

    Mar 27, 2008 2:00 AM GMT
    My dad always says that there are two kinds of Mormons - Utah Mormons and everyone else. This expression is pretty common because Utah Mormons are sterotyped as being extra exclusionary and judgemental. Needless to say, Mormons from other parts of the world definitely don't like this attitude.

    While its true that Utah Mormons are a unique breed in the religion - I still have a little trouble believing that your experiences are the norm.

    First of all, I have lived in Mesa, AZ for about 10 years. Mesa is sort of like a mini Salt Lake City and has a very high Mormon population, FYI. I'm a former Mormon and have family throughout Mesa and SLC. Finally, one of my degrees is in Theology (something I rarely speak about because it gets me odd looks icon_smile.gif ).

    With that background established, I can confidently say that Mormonism is far from the most conservative religion that I've encountered in my personal experience and studies. Orthodox Islam, Judaism, and Christianity is much worse. I consider Mormons to be less conservative because they believe that we should love and include our sinning family members, not chastise them. These are directives directly from the Prophet of the Mormon church. However, like in any religion, there are always going to be those that misinterpret the true meaning - however the Mormon Prophet has clearly communicated how LDS members should treat LGBT family members and others that no longer practice their religion.

    Second, it is entirely possible and in fact quite normal for a Mormon to grow up and be completely fine if they don't continue with the religion. I know many former Mormons, gay and straight, who are just fine with their situation (myself included). Their families love them and they still have very strong relationships with their partners. I've thankfully encountered very few 'nut jobs' that can't reconcile their religion with their sexuality.

    Next, Your claim that guys in Utah love to hit off with foreigners and just have sex - well, welcome to the gay world my friend. I'm afraid thats very prominent in most areas.

    Finally, it would be naive of me to say that the LDS faith doesn't play a huge role in the culture and society of Salt Lake City. I guess my point in writing this post is to share that while your experiences with Mormon men and culture do occur, they are not considered the norm or acceptable by the widespread Mormon community. Most Mormons are nice, well adjusted, and fairly accepting people as far as conservative Christians go. Make sure you give us a chance before you let your preconceived notions about Mormons get in the way of meeting someone that may be right for you.

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    Mar 27, 2008 2:23 AM GMT
    Pattison saidNot many Mormons live in Salt lake City anymore! You have to go dawn to Provo, or St George for this. But dawn in st George, you also have the break away Church, whom do openly practice polygamy.


    I also have family in a very rural area east of St. George. Mormon and heathen alike are completely freaked out by that group. Thankfully their leader is currently being prosecuted for multiple counts of statutory rape and tax evasion.
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    Mar 27, 2008 3:05 AM GMT
    asupas saidMy dad always says that there are two kinds of Mormons - Utah Mormons and everyone else. This expression is pretty common because Utah Mormons are sterotyped as being extra exclusionary and judgemental. Needless to say, Mormons from other parts of the world definitely don't like this attitude.

    While its true that Utah Mormons are a unique breed in the religion - I still have a little trouble believing that your experiences are the norm.

    First of all, I have lived in Mesa, AZ for about 10 years. Mesa is sort of like a mini Salt Lake City and has a very high Mormon population, FYI. I'm a former Mormon and have family throughout Mesa and SLC. Finally, one of my degrees is in Theology (something I rarely speak about because it gets me odd looks icon_smile.gif ).

    With that background established, I can confidently say that Mormonism is far from the most conservative religion that I've encountered in my personal experience and studies. Orthodox Islam, Judaism, and Christianity is much worse. I consider Mormons to be less conservative because they believe that we should love and include our sinning family members, not chastise them. These are directives directly from the Prophet of the Mormon church. However, like in any religion, there are always going to be those that misinterpret the true meaning - however the Mormon Prophet has clearly communicated how LDS members should treat LGBT family members and others that no longer practice their religion.

    Second, it is entirely possible and in fact quite normal for a Mormon to grow up and be completely fine if they don't continue with the religion. I know many former Mormons, gay and straight, who are just fine with their situation (myself included). Their families love them and they still have very strong relationships with their partners. I've thankfully encountered very few 'nut jobs' that can't reconcile their religion with their sexuality.

    Next, Your claim that guys in Utah love to hit off with foreigners and just have sex - well, welcome to the gay world my friend. I'm afraid thats very prominent in most areas.

    Finally, it would be naive of me to say that the LDS faith doesn't play a huge role in the culture and society of Salt Lake City. I guess my point in writing this post is to share that while your experiences with Mormon men and culture do occur, they are not considered the norm or acceptable by the widespread Mormon community. Most Mormons are nice, well adjusted, and fairly accepting people as far as conservative Christians go. Make sure you give us a chance before you let your preconceived notions about Mormons get in the way of meeting someone that may be right for you.



    let me make myself clearer. I am aware that most gay men just want to hit off, but most mormon guys cant/wont get into a relationship with a foreigner or someone who isnt mormon or comes from the same culture. Yes most gays just want sex, but most also look for meaningful relationships despite culture/race/religion.

    Mormons are nice, even way beyond nice, and not meaning too bash, but too nice that its fake, it seems fake. they act nice because religion says so, but do most of them really mean it?
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    Mar 27, 2008 3:35 AM GMT
    Moudi said[quote][cite]asupas said[/cite]My dad always says that there are two kinds of Mormons - Utah Mormons and everyone else. This expression is pretty common because Utah Mormons are sterotyped as being extra exclusionary and judgemental. Needless to say, Mormons from other parts of the world definitely don't like this attitude.

    While its true that Utah Mormons are a unique breed in the religion - I still have a little trouble believing that your experiences are the norm.

    First of all, I have lived in Mesa, AZ for about 10 years. Mesa is sort of like a mini Salt Lake City and has a very high Mormon population, FYI. I'm a former Mormon and have family throughout Mesa and SLC. Finally, one of my degrees is in Theology (something I rarely speak about because it gets me odd looks icon_smile.gif ).

    With that background established, I can confidently say that Mormonism is far from the most conservative religion that I've encountered in my personal experience and studies. Orthodox Islam, Judaism, and Christianity is much worse. I consider Mormons to be less conservative because they believe that we should love and include our sinning family members, not chastise them. These are directives directly from the Prophet of the Mormon church. However, like in any religion, there are always going to be those that misinterpret the true meaning - however the Mormon Prophet has clearly communicated how LDS members should treat LGBT family members and others that no longer practice their religion.

    Second, it is entirely possible and in fact quite normal for a Mormon to grow up and be completely fine if they don't continue with the religion. I know many former Mormons, gay and straight, who are just fine with their situation (myself included). Their families love them and they still have very strong relationships with their partners. I've thankfully encountered very few 'nut jobs' that can't reconcile their religion with their sexuality.

    Next, Your claim that guys in Utah love to hit off with foreigners and just have sex - well, welcome to the gay world my friend. I'm afraid thats very prominent in most areas.

    Finally, it would be naive of me to say that the LDS faith doesn't play a huge role in the culture and society of Salt Lake City. I guess my point in writing this post is to share that while your experiences with Mormon men and culture do occur, they are not considered the norm or acceptable by the widespread Mormon community. Most Mormons are nice, well adjusted, and fairly accepting people as far as conservative Christians go. Make sure you give us a chance before you let your preconceived notions about Mormons get in the way of meeting someone that may be right for you.



    let me make myself clearer. I am aware that most gay men just want to hit off, but most mormon guys cant/wont get into a relationship with a foreigner or someone who isnt mormon or comes from the same culture. Yes most gays just want sex, but most also look for meaningful relationships despite culture/race/religion.

    Mormons are nice, even way beyond nice, and not meaning too bash, but too nice that its fake, it seems fake. they act nice because religion says so, but do most of them really mean it?[/quote]How I used to long to met a return Missionary, and just get on with the rest of our lives together, and have this bond in faith, and adopt children. (even to this day. I have a home were a child would benifit, from a life within). Yet you never know, about each other until it's to late. I can now look back, and see my lost opertunitys, in what I so long wanted. To settle dawn with another LDS. But whats the Diff, with being Greek, and wanting to met another Greek guy, coz this Will make Mumma happy. My Nana (whom is LDS), whom knows I am a fag, still loves me with all her heart. I am her Number One.
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    Mar 27, 2008 3:46 AM GMT
    I have Mormon friends as well and they have said much the same in regards to "Utah Mormons" and the rest. In other words, just because someone has experienced the Utah culture does not mean they have experienced "Mormon" culture (though they are closely related). I've been told that the Mormons in Utah only make up less than ten percent of the total church membership anyway and that SLC is less than 50% Mormon. On the funny side, I've heard them even use the term "Utah Mormon" or "Utard" as an insult to fellow Mormons. I've also heard that a lot of active Mormons go out to Utah and have problems with Utah Mormons' attitudes and culture (not all, but some!).

    All of my Mormon friends are fairly easy-going and are genuinely nice people. Are they perfect? Of course not, but they seem to take their religion seriously in an area where there aren't that many Mormons, but not so seriously that they are hateful, exclusionary, and judgemental.
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    Mar 27, 2008 4:05 AM GMT
    As a Mormon who went to TWO different BYU's (Provo and Idaho), and having lived all over the country, there are multiple types of Mormon men. I've found that some gay men are attracted to a partner just because he is Mormon, and the culture and lifestyle is intriguing. There was a comment earlier about the "nice" factor, and that potentially being fake. This would bring me to question said person's religious or spiritual belief in doing good acts or piety. Positive actions and behavior should not be judged upon the source.

    And as for any of you who want to date a 20-something, "with-it" non-baggage Mormon boy...the line starts behind the Temple (or you could just email me icon_biggrin.gif)
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    Mar 27, 2008 4:08 AM GMT
    I personally love faith, too. I consider Christ to be God, and I find the Mormon faith to be a bit different than, say, what I'm accustomed to, but not intolerable, and probably enjoyable. I really think that an unwelcome feeling can be generally mutual for two parties, but I believe that it is not generally a genuine sense or feeling for either.

    At the moment, I feel that I'm beginning to feel a bit as if I'm judging myself, because I can't believe how fake what I just typed might seem to someone else, but I sure did sense it [the Mormon faith] (somehow), and experienced it, and it was much more enjoyable than, say, fear, hatred, and death, even if I find joy for myself otherwise (I'm not one to buy the American Dream).

    The Abercrombie and Fitch Corporate Philosophy, from what I've read, reminds me greatly of what I read about the unconditionally loving (of God) and insistently conforming Utah Mormons from your perspective.

    I don't mind either so much, and I know that there are many homosexuals who would love to be in a relationship with another guy or gal who looks, acts and speaks very similarly to themselves and understands them well. I've seen gay/lesbian couples where the two partners have been together for decades and they look nearly identical. It makes me a bit curious.
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    Mar 27, 2008 4:17 AM GMT
    OK, I officially joined JUST to respond to this thread...it kinda stuck out at me when I opened the page...here goes nothing.

    Tada, I am a Mormon (Latter-day Saint) and let me just tell you that yes, there IS a difference in the Utah Mormon culture and how the rest of the Church tends to live. I was not only born and raised Mormon, but I was also born and raised in northeast Ohio, hardly a hotbed of Mormonism (though we do have significant Mormon history!). I have attended college at both Kent State University and Brigham Young University-Idaho and let me tell you; at KSU I felt like an ultra-conservative, but at BYU-I I felt like a liberal and many of the cultural ideas and traditions were completely foreign (and ANNOYING) to me. Why? That's because a lot of the cultural "norms" in Utah and Idaho are not "Mormon" but are actually 19th century American. Once the Latter-day Saints settled the west, they became isolated from the rest of the country for a time, so the customs and ideas they brought with them became more permanent while the country itself moved on. How the average western Mormon deals with homosexuality is far different than the rest of the Church, again, due to cultural traditions more than actual doctrine. We are constantly being told to be loving and caring for family members and friends even though we regard homosexuality the way we do; it is no excuse for mistreating someone just because we disagree on their lifestyle or who they are attracted to.

    Are Mormons conservative? For the most part yes, but I wouldn't say we're the most conservative group either. And no, not all Mormons are Republicans either. Senate majority leader Harry Reid is example A!

    Guess my point is, a LOT of people, Mormon and non, have problems with the culture that exists in Utah and the general Church leadership is addressing it constantly. There are a LOT more Mormons outside of Utah than in (there are around 13 million Mormons worldwide (active and inactive); about 6.7 million don't even live in the United States; there are around 1.7 million total members in Utah.)

    OK...hope I haven't worn my welcome out already...
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    Mar 27, 2008 4:25 AM GMT
    FreakinHuge saidI have Mormon friends as well and they have said much the same in regards to "Utah Mormons" and the rest. In other words, just because someone has experienced the Utah culture does not mean they have experienced "Mormon" culture (though they are closely related). I've been told that the Mormons in Utah only make up less than ten percent of the total church membership anyway and that SLC is less than 50% Mormon. On the funny side, I've heard them even use the term "Utah Mormon" or "Utard" as an insult to fellow Mormons. I've also heard that a lot of active Mormons go out to Utah and have problems with Utah Mormons' attitudes and culture (not all, but some!).

    All of my Mormon friends are fairly easy-going and are genuinely nice people. Are they perfect? Of course not, but they seem to take their religion seriously in an area where there aren't that many Mormons, but not so seriously that they are hateful, exclusionary, and judgemental.


    i have lots of mormon friends since i came here, and besides, i live in Logan, which is a town way up south, close to Idaho (an 40 minute drive) and mostly everyone here is extremely conservative
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    Mar 27, 2008 4:29 AM GMT
    FishOuttaWater saidOK, I officially joined JUST to respond to this thread...it kinda stuck out at me when I opened the page...here goes nothing.

    Tada, I am a Mormon (Latter-day Saint) and let me just tell you that yes, there IS a difference in the Utah Mormon culture and how the rest of the Church tends to live. I was not only born and raised Mormon, but I was also born and raised in northeast Ohio, hardly a hotbed of Mormonism (though we do have significant Mormon history!). I have attended college at both Kent State University and Brigham Young University-Idaho and let me tell you; at KSU I felt like an ultra-conservative, but at BYU-I I felt like a liberal and many of the cultural ideas and traditions were completely foreign (and ANNOYING) to me. Why? That's because a lot of the cultural "norms" in Utah and Idaho are not "Mormon" but are actually 19th century American. Once the Latter-day Saints settled the west, they became isolated from the rest of the country for a time, so the customs and ideas they brought with them became more permanent while the country itself moved on. How the average western Mormon deals with homosexuality is far different than the rest of the Church, again, due to cultural traditions more than actual doctrine. We are constantly being told to be loving and caring for family members and friends even though we regard homosexuality the way we do; it is no excuse for mistreating someone just because we disagree on their lifestyle or who they are attracted to.

    Are Mormons conservative? For the most part yes, but I wouldn't say we're the most conservative group either. And no, not all Mormons are Republicans either. Senate majority leader Harry Reid is example A!

    Guess my point is, a LOT of people, Mormon and non, have problems with the culture that exists in Utah and the general Church leadership is addressing it constantly. There are a LOT more Mormons outside of Utah than in (there are around 13 million Mormons worldwide (active and inactive); about 6.7 million don't even live in the United States; there are around 1.7 million total members in Utah.)

    OK...hope I haven't worn my welcome out already...


    very good insight icon_smile.gif thank you for that

    and welcome icon_biggrin.gif
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    Mar 27, 2008 4:34 AM GMT
    I spent most of my teen-age years growing up Mormon in Utah, and have many non-Mormon friends in Utah and beyond...

    Many of my non-Mormon friends often share similar feelings and experiences...and, even from my own experience as an insider (however disenfranchised because of my sexuality), I can definitely understand where you are coming from. It's very challenging being a minority, period, but being one among a Mormon majority is a particular trial.

    However, these same non-Mormon Utahns rarely speak in such broad, insensitive, and, frankly, unfair generalizations...

    Mormons, though unique, are generally just like everyone else. We have feelings and struggle with being loved and loving just as you do. We, like all people, are complex and therefore, deserving of the same sensitivity and understanding that you seem to be not receiving there in Utah...I know it seems like you should get that understanding from others before you show it others, but why don't you experiment with extending the same type of depthful understanding you desire for yourself toward these "fake", "superficial" and "prejudiced" Mormons and maybe you'll be surprised what you discover about being Mormon...

    I know it can be frustrating and infuriating living in Utah as a non-Mormon, being marginalized and ostrasiced, even as they smile and hand you a casserole, but don't you think you may be being a bit hasty in your condemnation of all gay Mormons?

    Please don't categorize all of us so harshly....you may, one day, meet a Mormon who will be the exception to your rules and then you may have to rethink some of your statements...

    Meanwhile, I am sorry living in Salt Lake is proving so difficult. I hope it gets better
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    Mar 27, 2008 4:39 AM GMT
    tri_guy546 saidI spent most of my teen-age years growing up Mormon in Utah, and have many non-Mormon friends in Utah and beyond...

    Many of my non-Mormon friends often share similar feelings and experiences...and, even from my own experience as an insider (however disenfranchised because of my sexuality), I can definitely understand where you are coming from. It's very challenging being a minority, period, but being one among a Mormon majority is a particular trial.

    However, these same non-Mormon Utahns rarely speak in such broad, insensitive, and, frankly, unfair generalizations...

    Mormons, though unique, are generally just like everyone else. We have feelings and struggle with being loved and loving just as you do. We, like all people, are complex and therefore, deserving of the same sensitivity and understanding that you seem to be not receiving there in Utah...I know it seems like you should get that understanding from others before you show it others, but why don't you experiment with extending the same type of depthful understanding you desire for yourself toward these "fake", "superficial" and "prejudiced" Mormons and maybe you'll be surprised what you discover about being Mormon...

    I know it can be frustrating and infuriating living in Utah as a non-Mormon, being marginalized and ostrasiced, even as they smile and hand you a casserole, but don't you think you may be being a bit hasty in your condemnation of all gay Mormons?

    Please don't categorize all of us so harshly....you may, one day, meet a Mormon who will be the exception to your rules and then you may have to rethink some of your statements...

    Meanwhile, I am sorry living in Salt Lake is proving so difficult. I hope it gets better



    I was afraid someone would think i am bashing on them or hating on them, which is not true. I dont judge a person from just being a mormon, never have, never will. i have some great mormon friends. I am just stating what i see to be prevalent among the mormon gay culture in utah. I certainly do not feel any less loved or shunned out of their society. simply stating what i see. Besides, i live in logan. SLC would be far better
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    Mar 27, 2008 4:42 AM GMT
    Moudi said[quote][cite]very good insight icon_smile.gif thank you for that

    and welcome icon_biggrin.gif


    Thanks. I will DEFINITELY agree that Logan is a very conservative place (I have a cousin there at USU). I wish you the best of luck there in dealing with the culture. Believe me when I tell you I have some idea how difficult it can be (different experiences of course!). But still, I do know the frustrations.
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    Mar 27, 2008 5:01 AM GMT
    i'm going to slc friday, so I'll count how many mormen there are and let you know.
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    Mar 27, 2008 11:57 AM GMT
    sickothesame saidi'm going to slc friday, so I'll count how many mormen there are and let you know.
    I am the Only 'One" I know of....icon_razz.gif
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    Mar 28, 2008 5:47 AM GMT
    Park Four,

    No doubt that what u have said is completely true, i agree with you. the church has values and morals not only found within the mormon religion, but as values adopted by societies as whole.

    I personally love the ethical morals and values instilled in many utahns, and part of the reason i would want to work in utah is because of the high ethical standards around here.

    But it really does make me sad that so many guys go through these internal conflicts of being gay. All various gay men of religion i have encountered never had that much hardship with coming to accept themselves as gay.

    Take a mormon guy i met a few months back. he was not out, which i understand, but he wanted to experiment. So i told him sure. After he orgasmed, he sat up and was about to cry, saying that he sinned, and that jesus now hates him, saying he needs a family, a wife, kids. The guilt feeling form your first sensation is no doubt heavy for such a devote mormon to handle, but if it weren't for this strong influence of religion, there wont be so many problems.

    Let me ask you this: You, as a mormon, who has clearly shown his love and passion to his family, would u ever think of a long term relationship with someone who isnt a mormon or from utah? Would u want to be closely related to someone who doesnt come from ur upbringing, your background?

    Mormons accept other cultures, religions, etc, but when it comes to testing how far they would go, many dont go far.
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    Mar 29, 2008 7:03 AM GMT
    Park_Four saidWell I think it’s very important for you to understand that while I did grow up in the church and I still to this day live by ‘most’ of their standards, I am no longer a Mormon. I’ve never known if the church was true and I have no intention to ever find out. So when you ask questions to me I can only answer for myself, me being someone who doesn’t know if the church is true. For people who sincerely believe the church is true the internal conflict must be insane.

    As for your question, yes, in fact that is all I’m interested in. I’ve had very few chances to date guys but the few times I did things didn’t go too well. The only thing that deters me from being in a committed relationship is because people want to jump right into it and have sex. The thought of meaningless sex just makes me feel worthless and empty which I probably get from the church. So ya I wish I could find another ex-Mormon only because he would more likely reflect the things I hope to find. Not that I limit my hopes to that but from my experience almost all guys just want sex no matter what they say, actions speak louder than words.


    The sex issue here is not applied to mormons, but to gay society as whole. I definitely know what u mean. I have yet to meet one guy who just wants to talk to me and take me out, rather than jump in the sack, which is why ive been keeping myself off the "market" so to speak.

    That is the one thing i love about the mormon church, the notion of a no-no to meaningless sex. I cant deny that i have had meaningless sex, but u come to a point where u get sick of it, and u just want to meet someone and settle down, and for a 20 year guy like myself to be wanting to settle down at this age while all other 20 year olds are out partying and getting drunk, well, i guess i find myself more mature from that aspect.