My government protects me... how about yours?

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 14, 2011 8:58 AM GMT
    Thought that I would toss a ruling by the Canadian broadcast standards council out there and see what comes back. From the rulinghttp://www.cbsc.ca/english/decisions/2011/110112.php "The Panel concludes that, like other racially driven words in the English language, “faggot” is one that, even if entirely or marginally acceptable in earlier days, is no longer so."

    Our overlords in Canada (yes, I am using loaded words to describe a bureaucratic organization) has ruled that Dire Straights "Money for Nothing" is far too offensive to be broadcast over the radio airwaves in Canada. This board seems like the perfect place to post because we have just recently debated the re-writting of Mark Twains classics. I know that I am comparing a pop song to Mark Twain (and that might be unfair) but I am also asking a group of people who, for the most part, would vote against rewritting the classics how they feel about editing a 25 year old song. Most of us who did not want the "N" word removed are white... most of us are gay. So, do you want the term faggot removed from the song... Do the lyrics offend you to the point that you would ban the song from broadcast?
    The little faggot with the earring and the make-up
    Yeah, buddy, that’s his own hair
    That little faggot’s got his own jet airplane
    That little faggot, he’s a millionaire

    Thankfully, I am now protected from the following...
    [url][/url]
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 14, 2011 9:57 AM GMT
    NO! This song is awesome! I had NO idea the word faggot was even in it. The song is too good to censor. And what the hell?!?... They're saying that the faggot has a god damn jet plane and a million dollars, not "I'm going to kill da faggot."

    You have no idea how many times I freak out when I'm listening to the radio AT 3AM and they censor words like BOOTY. Yes, they censor the word BOOTY. At 3AM in the fucking morning. Because in America probably some stupid slut had her child listen to it at 3AM and called in to complain to the FCC. This is ridiculous. Censorship is getting so bad in U.S. radio.

    What it's really boiling down to is this: one day I will make a song called "penis" and the only lyrics of the song will be "penis." They'll have a field day censoring my penis.
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    Jan 14, 2011 12:16 PM GMT
    same thing as the book (Mark Twain), it shouldn't be censored. End of discussion! icon_cool.gif

    In the song, some blue collar workers are commenting on how rock stars on MTV have an easy life not doing proper work, while they themselves are doing hard labour. They are characters in a song saying something offensive.

    Dire Straits just put that attitude towards succesful musicians into an ironic perspective.

    Equally, Eminem faced some controversy regarding the character Slim Shady, but that is also merely a character, and not necessarily a character who shares the artists' opinions.
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    Jan 14, 2011 12:58 PM GMT
    This song's history is amazing. Both the song and music video helped to mold today's pop culture, not only in the US, but abroad (Dire Straits is a British group, after all). It was written based on an actual conversation overheard by the songwriter while he was in an appliance store here in Manhattan, which is why those specific visuals were used in the music video.

    Since when did Canada start sucking? This is a serious error in someone's judgment call. I'm sure they'll come around, but it's nowhere near as bad as editing Twain's work. Seriously. What's arong with North America when its govts. spend more time worrying about political correctness than, say, balancing corp. interests with citizen rights, gun control or universal health care?

  • TrentGrad

    Posts: 1541

    Jan 14, 2011 1:55 PM GMT
    RiverRising saidThis song's history is amazing. Both the song and music video helped to mold today's pop culture, not only in the US, but abroad (Dire Straits is a British group, after all). It was written based on an actual conversation overheard by the songwriter while he was in an appliance store here in Manhattan, which is why those specific visuals were used in the music video.

    Since when did Canada start sucking? This is a serious error in someone's judgment call. I'm sure they'll come around, but it's nowhere near as bad as editing Twain's work. Seriously. What's arong with North America when its govts. spend more time worrying about political correctness than, say, balancing corp. interests with citizen rights, gun control or universal health care?



    But we have gun control and universal health care here in Canada. ;)

    To be honest, the song means nothing to me, and so I don't really care either way about whether it specifically is censored or not.

    However, and realize I'm just throwing this out there, at what point do we say the use of bigoted terms is no longer tolerable?

    A 25 year old song does not strike me as a classic...but suppose we exempt it because of it's artistic merits and because it's beloved by some: do we do the same for a 10 year old song? A 5 year old song? A song recorded last year? A song recorded in a part of the country or world where homophobia is still rampant?

    I realize that Freedom of Speech is a sacred thing within a liberal democracy, however we have acknowledged that it has it's limits. Case in point: you can't go out and claim person Z rapes animals...they can sue for slander, libel...whatever.

    Moreover, art has been censored before: movies are screened for content first, edited usually at the direction of state regulators, and then released to movie theatres. This practice goes back further than 25 years...so why should music be immune when it contains content offensive to some?

    Getting bent out of shape over this seems pointless however: if the song is 25 years old, it's not like suddenly it's going to be pulled while at the height of it's popularity. If you like the song, buy the CD and play it for yourself every day. No one is actually talking about removing the word...the CBSC just doesn't want it played on Canadian radio stations. After 25 years it's getting minimal airtime anyways!

    And given that the CBSC isn't 25 years behind on it's work, it likely came to this decision because a listener or listeners heard the song, and found it offensive enough.

    I think of far more concern was the publically funded Catholic school board in Halton region, if I'm not mistaken, who decided to ban a "Gay-Straight Alliance" from their school. Unless the Vatican is totally funding the Catholic school boards, their brand of homophobia should be eradicated from even the Catholic schools! A perfect scenerio would be eliminating the Catholic School system...but as it's constitutionally protected, I'd at least like to see a code of conduct placed upon Catholic school boards.
  • TrentGrad

    Posts: 1541

    Jan 14, 2011 2:08 PM GMT
    west77 saidThought that I would toss a ruling by the Canadian broadcast standards council out there and see what comes back. From the rulinghttp://www.cbsc.ca/english/decisions/2011/110112.php "The Panel concludes that, like other racially driven words in the English language, “faggot” is one that, even if entirely or marginally acceptable in earlier days, is no longer so."

    Our overlords in Canada (yes, I am using loaded words to describe a bureaucratic organization) has ruled that Dire Straights "Money for Nothing" is far too offensive to be broadcast over the radio airwaves in Canada. This board seems like the perfect place to post because we have just recently debated the re-writting of Mark Twains classics. I know that I am comparing a pop song to Mark Twain (and that might be unfair) but I am also asking a group of people who, for the most part, would vote against rewritting the classics how they feel about editing a 25 year old song. Most of us who did not want the "N" word removed are white... most of us are gay. So, do you want the term faggot removed from the song... Do the lyrics offend you to the point that you would ban the song from broadcast?
    The little faggot with the earring and the make-up
    Yeah, buddy, that’s his own hair
    That little faggot’s got his own jet airplane
    That little faggot, he’s a millionaire

    Thankfully, I am now protected from the following...


    Good grief...don't you think you're being a little melodramatic? After all, our "Overlords" have obviously not stopped you from finding it on You Tube! Our "Overlords" are not coming to your home to take away your CD.

    As I said, I really don't care. I never liked the song...so every word could be replaced with "blah, blah, blah" and I would still have the same opinion. Moreover, regulators have edited movies for decades: why should radio be exempt?

    Hell, American television stations are some of the worst offenders out there for exempting content: how often do you watch a movie or TV show on American TV and fiind, not only the profanities blotted out, but also the references to "God" and "Jesus Christ," unless of course they are uttered in a positive way.

    Characterizing this as state protection run amok really overstates the issue. Moreover, in the era of satalite radio, CD's, online music downloads, Youtube and other media outlets, it's not a good basis of comparison to compare THIS to the publisher of Huck Finn choosing to edit the content of their book for a modern audience.
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    Jan 14, 2011 2:13 PM GMT


    I think it should remain as is. The word faggot is not being used as part of a threat. Unlike in songs by Buju Banton, who uses batty boy/man (Jamaican for faggot)

    World is in trouble
    Anytime Buju Banton come
    Batty bwoy get up an run
    At gunshot me head back
    Hear I tell him now crew

    (Its like) Boom bye bye
    Inna batty bwoy head
    Rude bwoy no promote no nasty man
    Dem haffi dead
    Boom bye bye
    Inna batty bwoy head
    Rude bwoy no promote no nasty man
    Dem haffi dead

    (Two man) Hitch up on an rub up on
    An lay down inna bed
    Hug up on another
    Anna feel up leg
    Send fi di matic an
    Di Uzi instead
    Shoot dem no come if we shot dem--
    Don't want Jackie
    Give dem Paul instead
    Dem don't want di sweetness
    Between di leg
    Gal bend down backway
    An accept di peg
    An if it really hot
    You know she still naw gon fled
    A some man
    Still don't want di
    Panty raid
    Pure batty business dem love

    (Me say) Boom bye bye
    Inna batty bwoy head
    Rude bwoy no promote the nasty man
    Dem haffi dead
    Boom bye bye
    Inna batty bwoy head
    Rude bwoy no promote no nasty man
    Dem haffi dead

    (Woman is di) Greatest thing
    God ever put pon di land
    Buju lovin dem from head
    Down to foot bottom
    But some man a turn around
    Where dem get that from
    Peter is not for Janet
    Peter is for John
    Suzette is not for Paul
    Suzette is for Ann
    Where the bobocloth
    Dem get dat from
    Here come the DJ
    Name Buju Banton
    (Come fi) ((Straighten yuh talk?))

    (Boom boom boom) Boom bye bye
    Inna batty bwoy head
    Rude bwoy no promote the nasty man
    Dem haffi dead
    Boom bye bye
    Inna batty bwoy head
    Rude bwoy no promote no batty man
    Dem haffi dead

    (Caw me say) Dis is not an bargain (Me say)
    Dis is not a deal
    Guy come near we
    Then his skin must peel
    Burn him up bad like an old tire wheel
    gwaan buju banton yuh tough

    (Me say) Boom bye bye
    Inna batty bwoy head
    Rude bwoy no promote the batty man
    Dem haffi dead
    Boom bye bye
    Inna batty bwoy head
    Rude bwoy no promote no batty man
    (Hear what now!)

    (Two man) A hug up on an kiss up on
    An lay down inna bed
    Hug up on another
    Anna rub dung leg
    Send fi di matic an
    Di Uzi instead
    Shoot di batty boy come if we shot dem--
    Dem don't want Jackie
    Give dem Paul instead
    Don't want di poom poom
    Between Patsy leg
    All dem want
    Is the body from Fred
    But dis is Buju Banton
    Me say

    (Me say) Boom bye bye
    Inna batty bwoy head
    Rude bwoy no promote no nasty man
    Dem haffi dead
    Boom bye bye
    Inna batty bwoy head
    Rude bwoy no promote no nasty man
    Dem haffi dead

    Caw woman is the prettiest thing
    God ever put pon di land
    Put pon di land (Pu-pu-put pon di land)
    But some man a turn around
    Where dem get dat from
    Peter is not for Janet
    Peter is for John
    Suzette is not for Paul
    Suzette is for Ann
    Here come di DJ name Buju Banton (Come fi)
    Give di massive
    Satisfaction
    Happy how yuh lovin (Ju fi)

    (So just) Boom bye bye
    Inna batty bwoy head
    Rude bwoy no promote no batty man
    Dem haffi dead
    Boom bye bye
    Inna batty bwoy head
    Rude bwoy no promote no batty man
    Dem haffi dead

    All a di New York crew
    Dem no promote Batty man
    Jump an dance
    Unno push up unno hand
    All di Brooklyn girl
    Dem no promote batty man
    Jump an bogle
    Anna wine yuh bottom
    Canadian gals dem no like batty man
    If yuh are not one
    Yuh haffi push up

    (Me say) Boom bye bye
    Inna batty bwoy head
    Rude bwoy no promote no batty man
    Dem haffi dead
    Boom bye bye
    Inna batty bwoy head
    Rude bwoy no promote no batty man
    Dem haffi dead
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 14, 2011 2:13 PM GMT
    I don't know the song, but I'm glad Canada protects gays from hate speech, discrimination, etc. Unfortunately we need the legal protection until the generations die off who still believe it was the protection itself that made people gay and sent the country to hell (i.e. my parents' generation).

    Sure, issues like song lyrics might come up (and some people seem to hold this song dearly), but these ones don't offend me. Rap or metal songs that encourage hate/violence towards gays I would definitely want off the airwaves, though. They just need to determine where the line is, and this song provokes the discussion.
  • neosyllogy

    Posts: 1714

    Jan 14, 2011 2:19 PM GMT
    judoguy saidsame thing as the book (Mark Twain), it shouldn't be censored. End of discussion! icon_cool.gif

    In the song, some blue collar workers are commenting on how rock stars on MTV have an easy life not doing proper work, while they themselves are doing hard labour. They are characters in a song saying something offensive.

    +1
    (One can make arguments about national broadcast that's available to children, but that's another issue.)
  • McLukas

    Posts: 33

    Jan 14, 2011 3:05 PM GMT
    No one can offend you without your permission. I don't really get the hype over how some words can be more offensive than the next. Doesn't faggot just mean a gay man? Whats so offensive about that?

    It's like that episode of south park where they are fighting over the town flag. All the black people want to change the black guy getting hanged cause they think it's racist but the whites don't want it to get changed cause it shows part of their history. And the kids don't see it as being racist because they don't understand the concept of racism. I think when people get offended by such simple things such as words, it reflects on their own perceptions and prejudices.

    Plus words get their power from the people who use them and you can say the most offensive things without using offensive words. It's not the words you use but how you use them.
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    Jan 14, 2011 3:08 PM GMT
    Oh please... this song is about as far from hate speech as you can get.
    The song's about a disgruntled blue-collar worker... not about hating on gay men.
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    Jan 14, 2011 3:25 PM GMT
    meninlove said

    I think it should remain as is. The word faggot is not being used as part of a threat. Unlike in songs by Buju Banton, who uses batty boy/man (Jamaican for faggot)



    Yeah that stuff is horrendous.. before he came out with the gay hate I was even a fan, I bought his CD's and went to his concerts...

    Anyways, I can understand they would censor the word faggot same way they would censor the words "fuck" and "shit" and "stoned" and "marijana" in songs on the radio... just replace them with a beep if necessary
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    Jan 14, 2011 3:26 PM GMT
    ... and I agree with Meninlove, that these hatespeaking reggae musicians need to be harrassed a lot more with PC. The only thing you achieve by censoring artists who are basically on our side, is protecting stupid people with no sense of humour from irony.
  • Celticmusl

    Posts: 4330

    Jan 14, 2011 3:36 PM GMT
    McLukas saidNo one can offend you without your permission. I don't really get the hype over how some words can be more offensive than the next. Doesn't faggot just mean a gay man? Whats so offensive about that?

    It's like that episode of south park where they are fighting over the town flag. All the black people want to change the black guy getting hanged cause they think it's racist but the whites don't want it to get changed cause it shows part of their history. And the kids don't see it as being racist because they don't understand the concept of racism. I think when people get offended by such simple things such as words, it reflects on their own perceptions and prejudices.

    Plus words get their power from the people who use them and you can say the most offensive things without using offensive words. It's not the words you use but how you use them.



    Faggot doesn't mean gay man. Fag may mean gay man, but faggot is derogatory. The fact that you don't "get" how some words are "more offensive than the next" really shows your intelligence level. Negro is not the same as calling someone the N word.
  • Celticmusl

    Posts: 4330

    Jan 14, 2011 3:47 PM GMT
    Yeah, I think it's a pretty offensive quote, and I never really liked the song either so pull it. It doesn't mean you can't listen to it in your own home while you're waving the nazi flag and calling your nephew Little Faggot. Hey, how offensive could that possibly be?

    I always knew there was a reason why I didn't like Dire "Straight"...... me thinks they doth protest too much. I'm sure they were also millionaires that wore makeup and had overblown hair.....so are they talking about themselves?
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    Jan 14, 2011 4:33 PM GMT
    But but but but but in the song it's a guy talking about the band. So the band is calling themselves faggots or referencing being called faggot.

    Does this mean that if I was on a talkshow in Canada I couldn't say that I was a faggot? Or that Mark Knopfler called me a faggot?
  • McLukas

    Posts: 33

    Jan 14, 2011 5:19 PM GMT
    Celticmusl said
    Faggot doesn't mean gay man. Fag may mean gay man, but faggot is derogatory. The fact that you don't "get" how some words are "more offensive than the next" really shows your intelligence level. Negro is not the same as calling someone the N word.


    My point was I don't think people should be so offended by the connotation of words rather than the intent or message behind the words. Faggot might have a negative connotation but it's because of the way the people traditionally use the word. Although the word might invoke some harsh emotions, it still just means gay male. In the song it's not even used pejoratively.
  • Syphon

    Posts: 366

    Jan 14, 2011 6:40 PM GMT
    These are works from a time when it was acceptable, it shouldn't be censored.

    Don't really give a shit though... =/

    But meh, I say faggot all the time; my friends call me a faggot, I call them faggots, I don't care, it's a word, get over it.
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    Jan 14, 2011 6:42 PM GMT
    Lets not go down the censoring road, leave the song alone, I've listened to that sone for many a year and it never one time bothered me. Like an inteligent guy above pointed out, no one can offend you unless you let them.


    If we go down this slippery slope of censoring for us, then whats to stop censoring among the far righties to go way beyond what, for example, the Texas school board tried to do. This censorship could go off on tangents in every direction imaginable. Just leave it alone.
  • CAtoFL

    Posts: 834

    Jan 14, 2011 6:57 PM GMT
    This is a bit of a non-issue because there is a radio edit of this song (just as there are radio edits now) that deletes the 'faggot' reference.

    I heard them play the original version on a Carnival cruise and asked that they substitute the 'cleaned up' version. The original was inappropriate for families and potentially offensive to gay guests. It was done without any issue and I was thanked for bringing it to their attention.

    Everything written isn't appropriate just because you slap the label "art" on it. This is the reason we have the MPAA rating system here for movies here in the States. Similarly, the "R" version of this song might be your favorite. Hooray for you. But the "PG" or "PG-13" version is more appropriate for public consumption. You are not the only one with access to radio.

    And comparing a disposable pop song to Mark Twain? Absolute idiocy.
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    Jan 14, 2011 7:01 PM GMT
    realifedad saidLets not go down the censoring road, leave the song alone, I've listened to that sone for many a year and it never one time bothered me. Like an inteligent guy above pointed out, no one can offend you unless you let them.


    If we go down this slippery slope of censoring for us, then whats to stop censoring among the far righties to go way beyond what, for example, the Texas school board tried to do. This censorship could go off on tangents in every direction imaginable. Just leave it alone.


    I just love your stated and a few above. I use fag all the time, and am pro free speech, yet ,many of the Left here only agree with free speech, so long as they hear what they want to hear. You are right no=one can offend you unless you let them. So next time you want to bring me down because of an opinion I may seem to have. Remember, it's yours/theirs issues, and not mineicon_razz.gif


    Like one promoting us Pure Homosexualsicon_wink.gif
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    Jan 14, 2011 7:03 PM GMT
    I suppose it's a question of, who is going to set the example, if a public broadcaster doesn't?
  • mke_bt

    Posts: 707

    Jan 14, 2011 9:08 PM GMT

    Is it odd that I can't stand the word "fag" but love the word "faggot"? Unless you're talking about cigarettes, fag just rubs me the wrong way so to speak.
    I love the etymology of the word faggot and it's derivations in various languages.
    I'm a bassoon player (fagot, fagotti) and always enjoyed seeing that word in French, German or Italian emblazoned on a musical score. It's kind of empowering.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 14, 2011 10:44 PM GMT
    Associating censorship with protecting people who can make decisions for themselves is deeply troubling.

    Where do you draw the line to what you are allowed to and not allowed to hear? I wonder how you feel about wikileaks? Iran contra? Watergate?

    If the problem here is someone will be offended, how do you feel about censorship in the middle east?

    Anyway, I find it terribly bizarre and troubling the way this topic was posted.
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    Jan 14, 2011 10:49 PM GMT
    mke_bt said
    Is it odd that I can't stand the word "fag" but love the word "faggot"? Unless you're talking about cigarettes, fag just rubs me the wrong way so to speak.
    I love the etymology of the word faggot and it's derivations in various languages.
    I'm a bassoon player (fagot, fagotti) and always enjoyed seeing that word in French, German or Italian emblazoned on a musical score. It's kind of empowering.


    I love the words fag, faggot, queer, homo, mo, buttlicker, cocksucker, queen, etc. but hate the word fudge packer. Because unless you are into scat, its kind of a misrepresentation. Eh!