feeling homogenized

  • puttputt

    Posts: 254

    Mar 28, 2008 8:58 AM GMT
    Whether you'll admit it or not, gaysians are marginalized in gay culture, either through rice queen fantasies of exoticism or through demeaning remarks about our squinty eyes, short stature, skinny bodies, small penises, etc etc.. the list goes on.

    So then... would it be flattering to receive the following comments? (all copied and pasted from real messages i've received):

    1. just wanted to let u know I haven't found many asian guys attractive.. but for some reason I can see myself fucking you very hard and long.

    2. you are sooooo hot for an asian

    3. you are the hottest asian on here!!


    Yes, I know they're meant to flatter... but is it really flattering to feel homogenized and then weeded out as the exception?

    And then there's the other end of the spectrum, which is Asiaphilia manifesting itself in the gay community as being a rice queen. A lot of guys have admitted to dating me because I'm Asian, which translates to "you're replaceable" since there are just as plenty rice-on-white guys as there are white-on-rice. And many times I've wondered whether the guy paying me the compliment really likes me for me, or whether he likes me for what he supposes me to be (i.e., subservient and emasculated).

    I hope I'm not alone in feeling this way.
  • ShawnTX

    Posts: 2484

    Mar 28, 2008 12:39 PM GMT
    I understand how you feel. I'm sure those messages were meant as harmless comments, but to say, 'you are soooo hot for an asian' !?!?! Yeah, it can be said with a bit more tact.

    As for you're boyfriends that dated you becasue you're Asian, I say you should give yourself more credit than that. People have their types, physical traits that turn them on. They found you physically attractive then found your personality attractive enough to want to date you. If the only reason why they were attracted to you was because you're Asian, you probably would have been a one-nighter or a 'friend with benefits'.

    And it doesn't mean you're replaceable. I like guys wtih dark hair, it doesn't mean I'm going to leave my boyfriend for the next brunette that crosses my path, and I'm sure it's the same with most of your boyfriends that were initially attracted to you because of your race. There are always exceptions, I can imagine there are people out there that are happy enough with an empty relationship as long as they have their hot, Asian trophy in their bed, but you can probably easily weed those types out.
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    Mar 28, 2008 1:29 PM GMT
    I dont think you are hot just cuz you are asian...how objectifying and insulting...racial bigots!

    I think you're hot cuz you're short!!!! Damn, them short guys are hot, hot, hot!!!!!!! ..... icon_biggrin.gif
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    Mar 28, 2008 1:30 PM GMT
    Well I have been with an Asian guy for 10+ years so this topic is near and dear to my heart.

    I would have found all of those comments pretty insulting, and so would have my partner (who does not lack self-respect). I don't understand why people cannot accept somebody for who they are, a unique individual.

    I also find the term "rice queen" pretty insulting at times as well. As if being attracted to Asian men is something that is so bizarre you have to create a whole new cateogory for it. I do find some Asian men attractive, but I find men of all ethnic backgrounds attractive.

    If I am with an Asian partner, some gay men automatically think I am a "rice queen" and that I am much older than my partner (I am older, but not much older). Some gay men also stereotype that it is some sort of "sugar daddy" arrangement. That is one kind of relationship that I have never wanted, I prize independence and self-reliance in my partner.

    One thing I have noticed is that Asian gay men (generally speaking) make good partners. They are more likely to be monogamous, are less likely to be alcoholics or abuse drugs, and quite often come from stable, tightly knit families. These are characteristics I always looked for in a potential partner, so it is no surprise I fell in love with an Asian guy.
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    Mar 28, 2008 3:36 PM GMT
    Vlas, you've put your finger on it.

    Stereotypes are crutches for the mentally lazy. They are built-in for us humans from years of evolution (e.g. trying to instantly determine fight/flight responses based on very little information), but one thing that also makes us human is the ability to overcome that deep-seated programming by using our minds.

    Individualism is hard. You need empathy. You need to spend some time with someone. You need to catalog what makes them who they are. You need to think. Stereotypes are always there, deep in every one of our subconsciouses. Each of us struggles to overcome those base responses with intelligence, to varying degrees of success.

    One common symptom of people who haven't overcome them is the classic add-on phrase you started this thread with:

    You're X, ...for a Y

    Where X is any attribute, and Y is any broad grouping that can be stereotyped (ethnicity, age, gender, sexual preference, religion, height, weight, home town, you name it). Whenever I hear this (white guys hear it much less than others, but we do hear it -- there's lots of ways to be stereotyped besides skin color), I always reverse it, and throw it right back at them.

    For example: "Hey, you're in great shape, for an older guy." "Thanks, you seem reasonably intelligent, for a young guy." Say it with a smile, then you've made your point, and you both start off on a level playing field icon_smile.gif

    K

    PS And while I don't want to get into too much PDA here, Vlas made my hot list cause he's built, he's short, he's cute, he has a mild case of stick-out ears (drives me crazy), he's comfortable in his skin, and he's way smart, among many many other qualities.

    PPS And I agree with Mr. Edwards, that "Rice Queen" is an insulting term, usually used by people who don't think about things all that much.
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    Mar 28, 2008 3:43 PM GMT
    In a short response, ignore them. Most guys do judge based on race and culture, and many cant get into relationships with someone who is different than them

    u should see the messages i get. Apparently arabs are now seen as latins, lovers with hot sex, which i cant really deny icon_razz.gif, but thats all they see, at least thats how i feel...

    its very flattering to get messages telling me im hot, but honestly....it doesnt matter to me how many people think im hot..it matters to me how many people want to ge to know and spend time with me.
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    Mar 28, 2008 3:43 PM GMT
    My favorite ones towards me are....

    1. Are you Latin? Cause I think Latin men are HOT!
    2. OMG! You Latin men are SO intense.
    3. I want you to speak Spanish to me, NOW!
    4. The ASSUMPTION that I am soft spoken, take a back seat to "them" and what not...


    UGH!! PLEASE!! Just by looking at me, no one would have ANY idea that I was born & raised here in the U.S., I did not grow up typically/stereotypically Latin, and my Dad is Black! When guys are aware of "me" I always get "You're not like OTHER Latin guys!" Um, NOPE!!

    The assumptions KILL me!! Vlas, I get it! I feel it! It's annoying! Yet, there are times when it TOTALLY works for us!!! ;)

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    Mar 28, 2008 3:49 PM GMT
    "Your English is very good. I can hardly tell you are Chinese."

    In addition to sexual fetishism, Asians are often assumed to be immigrants who eat chicken feet and are all Chinese or Japanese. That has to be maddening.
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    Mar 28, 2008 3:52 PM GMT
    Wow 1972, you're pretty logical, for a Latin guy ;)

    K

    PS My last b/f was Columbian, but he was adopted as a baby and raised in the states by a German mom and a Pinoy dad. He got a lot of that shit too icon_smile.gif
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    Mar 28, 2008 3:54 PM GMT
    All non-white men (and women) have to deal with degrees of stereotypes, often moreso in the gay world. If the black man is at the "super sexed" extreme, the asian man is placed at the other. Of course, neither stereotype is wholly true but when people have little to no interaction with the real thing, they'll hold on to ignorant beliefs.

    There's some writings online on this topic which might be worth your time to dig up. Also, check out Edward Said's Orientalism for a good idea of what these men are doing when they make silly comments like those you received.
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    Mar 28, 2008 3:58 PM GMT
    vlas, I understand where you're coming from there. Yes, those messages were surely meant in a positive way, but I'd also find it kinda hard to take as a compliment...it's backhanded, if anything.

    I've dated plenty of guys who initially took notice of me for the looks my mixed background have given me - we do tend to stand out in a crowd of blonds-on-blue, for better and for worse - but if a guy can't get over my heritage and appreciate me for everything else...well, that's demeaning and I say buh-hye...
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    Mar 28, 2008 3:59 PM GMT
    I believe that many people are marginalized, and not only because of their race either. Other physical traits can marginalize guys including height, weight, hair color, skin color (sort of goes with race), etc.

    If someone doesn't like you for one of your physical traits, then there's not much you can really do. There will always be others out there who will appreciate you for who and what you are.

    As far as those comments, take them as compliments. At least they allowed themselves to look at you long enough to realize there was something about you they liked instead of just passing you over because of your race.
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    Mar 28, 2008 4:02 PM GMT
    iguanaSF saidWow 1972, you're pretty logical, for a Latin guy ;)

    K

    PS My last b/f was Columbian, but he was adopted as a baby and raised in the states by a German mom and a Pinoy dad. He got a lot of that shit too icon_smile.gif



    Am I???? Aww thanks Iguana!! LOL!! Bet he got bothered at times as well!
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    Mar 28, 2008 4:03 PM GMT
    I don't know but for me compliments through negation (i.e. "You're hot for an _________") aren't good compliments at all. I mean, if someone is saying you stand out but the others of your race don't, it's quite insulting. Just my opinion though. icon_smile.gif
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    Mar 28, 2008 4:06 PM GMT
    I think we all tend to draw our perceptions based on looks including ethnicity, as well as physical attributes, but I think what separates the truly classy guys is their ability to recognize that it's not the cover but the contents that is most important.

    Just the implication that because you are this, then you must be that is sort of offensive. Especially when it comes to ethnicity. I wonder how many of them would say to a white man, you're the hottest white guy I've seen, most white guys are just not that hot.

    They need to think before they open their mouths, I'm guessing that they probably didn't mean it the way you took it, hopefully.
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    Mar 28, 2008 4:13 PM GMT
    I agree Vlas it is insulting but unfortunately something that you will have to work around with men.

    I am Puerto Rican but I was born in Brooklyn NY. I look Italian (at least that's what everybody tells me), I don't speak Spanish as fluently as I should be able to, I make a very good living, I'm able to hold an intelligent conversation and I don't cheat on my lovers.

    Naturally I'm told I'm not really PR because I don't look or act the part. Because lord knows we're all financially dependent, dumb as a brick, manipulative liars who just like to have sex with every man that passes by.

    I've had men tell me once they realize that I'm PR, that they only want to have sex with me because that's all we're good for.

    So I have sex with them, grab their wallets and leave a note explaining my welfare check did not come in this month. icon_twisted.gif Just kidding...

    You have to take things with a grain of salt, correct what you can and ignore what you can't correct.



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    Mar 28, 2008 4:14 PM GMT
    NNJfitandbi said I think it's good for you to start a post like this and talk about how it feels to be stereotyped. Now go out and change attitudes. It's that simple.


    TOTALLY agree!
  • puttputt

    Posts: 254

    Mar 28, 2008 4:17 PM GMT
    iguanaSF saidhe's cute, he has a mild case of stick-out ears (drives me crazy)


    Haha... I've always hated my mild stick-out ears but I guess I don't feel so bad now icon_smile.gif
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    Mar 28, 2008 4:50 PM GMT
    I am sure you know by now that you are not alone in feeling this way. Though I am quite surprised you feel that strongly about it, being in a major metropolitan area. Try living in a small town in the midwest. icon_smile.gif

    It is hard to find the one when you are a minority (gay) within a minority (Asians), but not impossible. I have seen successful cases.

    As for those "compliments", just take them as they are. The truth of the matter is that there are so few of us here that attractive ones are rare. If they spend a few days in Asia, they will realise that there are TONNES of attractive Asians.
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    Mar 28, 2008 4:54 PM GMT
    nomoreask.jpg
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    Mar 28, 2008 4:55 PM GMT
    ROFL
    Caslon, that was hysterical! icon_lol.gif
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    Mar 28, 2008 4:57 PM GMT
    Awesome, Caslon! And here I was thinking you've been feeling a little peevish lately. icon_wink.gif
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    Mar 28, 2008 5:01 PM GMT
    I get this all the time and being from New Mexico is not a good combination. People assume that I am from NM and hispanic that I am mexican. Did the not take geography in school NM is part of the USA. Oh well to eache thier own I guess. I have learned to just go along with it and some times love to get into arguments with people who are from a different race and think that they know more about your race than you do.

    Oh and Vlas I think you are hot because you are hot. Race doesn't make a person good looking it is who they are as a person as a whole.


  • puttputt

    Posts: 254

    Mar 28, 2008 5:04 PM GMT
    ides saidI am sure you know by now that you are not alone in feeling this way. Though I am quite surprised you feel that strongly about it, being in a major metropolitan area. Try living in a small town in the midwest. icon_smile.gif


    You know... you would think that Boston, being the major metropolitan area that it is, would be diverse... but not so much. Sure we have a huge influx of international students, but it's diversity with segregation; all the ethnicities tend to hang out exclusively within their own group. I know it's probably much worse in the midwest but, growing up in a very diverse and culturally integrated community in Southern California, Boston is way too provincial for me.

    And being gay AND Asian? Ha... I can almost always count the number of gaysians in a bar (including myself) with one hand. Sorry to say it but gay Boston (at least the open and visible part) is largely mashed potatoes with mayo and a pinch of salt.
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    Mar 28, 2008 5:23 PM GMT
    zdrew78 saidAwesome, Caslon! And here I was thinking you've been feeling a little peevish lately. icon_wink.gif


    I am feeling peevish...very perceptive!

    I think its the testosterone coming back. Life is so calm and peaceful without testosterone.