Repubs and Dems, lets quit fooling ourselves, both Parties are F'n us over !!

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 22, 2011 1:13 AM GMT
    The American Public is getting F'd over by both parties, because both parties are almost totally bought and paid for by the particular monetary interests that happen to be at the forefront during any administrations term of power. The Lobby's with the most money to bring about the most pressure on Law makers are what controls our country's agenda. We get a few morsels here and there, but overall its all controled by, whose paying the political bills for their next election.

    When we as citizens take a broad look at particularly the last 3 or 4 decades, we are fairing steadily worse. When the repubs are in, the wealthy do better and middle incomes shrink, spending goes up on the military. when the dems get in they promise big things for society, then basicly do the same thing the repubs do with only a few carrots to show for all their promises.

    look at the situation we're in now with all the caving to the big banks that have wrecked our economy (yes Fanny and Freddie had a part in it, but that part of the problem was minor, compared to all the faulty AAA rated yet nearly worthless investments the even bigger banks sold) When things started crumbling there were very few dollars of real value to back those investments these banks scammed off around the world, it was such a mess that the banks couldn't even find their own paper trails to show proof of value, There's no damned excuse for that !!! What did Obama do ?? picked the very people to fix the problems who caused the problems by deregulating, did he consentrate on jobs while giving bullions to the banks ??? NOPE !!! Why did Obama go the way of the banks ?? because of the very wealthy banking lobby.

    Think of the obsene amounts of money spent on elections, which is little more than "influence peddling". Whoever has the most money or the biggest wealthiest lobby wins !!!! Truth gets lost in the shuffle,

    Has the Banking Lobby helped you out today ??
    Has the Oil Lobby helped you out today ?
    Have the Military Complex/ lobby helped you today, or did they keep the status quo going so Haliburton, KBR and many others keep getting rich?
    Has the Israeli Lobby helped you today,? our weak leaders have sure weakened our standing in the Middle East by selling out to them.
    Then there's the Hospital Lobby's, the insurance lobby's, the Union Lobby's, the LIst goes on and on.

    Do we the American People have a lobby ? the nearest to that is our vote !! now honestly, which do you think really has the most influence, the lobby's or the votes,? when the truth is that because of all the above lobby's the American People are so missiled, the true issues so lost, in all the false or shady advertising big business does to save its profits, that we're F'D.

    We need either a vibrant third party, or very very drastic election financing reform, even as strong as making it totally publicly financed, where all can still donate but its all anonimous into one federal kitty, to be divided among the candidates. Doing a away with the crooked lobbying laws which are basicly allowing favors for political financing. Maybe start a "PEOPLES LOBBY"

    What do you think could fix this debacle our country is in because our politicians are to large degree all bought and paid for ?

    Or do you not see a problem with the influence big money interests have on the directions of our country ?

    Is "what's good for business is good for america" still true, or has that backfired on us ??
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 22, 2011 1:27 AM GMT
    I can't help by wonder when read comments like these particularly from liberals whose appeals to bipartisanship occur most when their party or their ideological allies are at their weakest, whether or not these calls are cynical attempts at stifling debate (ditto the calls to "less rhetoric").

    The premise for most libertarians like myself is this: politicians seek their own agendas which invariably means an accumulation of ever greater amounts of power through greater spending funded by greater taxation. If you recognize that there exists a party that would enact legislation that is antithetical to your private interests, why would you not insist on a government that on balance is minimized in favor of your own personal preferences of how you shop/buy and consumer products and services?

    Lobbyists exist to curry favor for their respective industries. It was Adam Smith who famously said "People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices."

    The solution? Give governments and politicians less power instead of advocating more through advantageous legislation - but this requires an educated public instead of one prone to knee jerk reactions at the height of a crisis - financial "reform" and the "patriot act" being only two recent examples.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 22, 2011 1:42 AM GMT
    riddler78 saidI can't help by wonder when read comments like these particularly from liberals whose appeals to bipartisanship occur most when their party or their ideological allies are at their weakest, whether or not these calls are cynical attempts at stifling debate (ditto the calls to "less rhetoric").

    The premise for most libertarians like myself is this: politicians seek their own agendas which invariably means an accumulation of ever greater amounts of power through greater spending funded by greater taxation. If you recognize that there exists a party that would enact legislation that is antithetical to your private interests, why would you not insist on a government that on balance is minimized in favor of your own personal preferences of how you shop/buy and consumer products and services?

    Lobbyists exist to curry favor for their respective industries. It was Adam Smith who famously said "People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices."

    The solution? Give governments and politicians less power instead of advocating more through advantageous legislation - but this requires an educated public instead of one prone to knee jerk reactions at the height of a crisis - financial "reform" and the "patriot act" being only two recent examples.


    Nicely stated.

    Perhaps one day, just one day, we will have an educated public that actually cares about the issues and takes the time to read about them rather than listening to some scare tactics.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 22, 2011 1:56 AM GMT
    riddler78 saidI can't help by wonder when read comments like these particularly from liberals whose appeals to bipartisanship occur most when their party or their ideological allies are at their weakest, whether or not these calls are cynical attempts at stifling debate (ditto the calls to "less rhetoric").

    The premise for most libertarians like myself is this: politicians seek their own agendas which invariably means an accumulation of ever greater amounts of power through greater spending funded by greater taxation. If you recognize that there exists a party that would enact legislation that is antithetical to your private interests, why would you not insist on a government that on balance is minimized in favor of your own personal preferences of how you shop/buy and consumer products and services?

    Lobbyists exist to curry favor for their respective industries. It was Adam Smith who famously said "People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices."

    The solution? Give governments and politicians less power instead of advocating more through advantageous legislation - but this requires an educated public instead of one prone to knee jerk reactions at the height of a crisis - financial "reform" and the "patriot act" being only two recent examples.




    Guess the whole point went right over your "liberal hating" head didn't it !!!! Not one time did I use the word "bipartisanship", Which isn't any part of the point. Get out of your conservative box for long enough to reread and lets have a real productive discussion not just the typical Cons against the Libs crap.
  • SoBeCamera

    Posts: 74

    Jan 22, 2011 1:59 AM GMT
    riddler78 saidI can't help by wonder when read comments like these particularly from liberals whose appeals to bipartisanship occur most when their party or their ideological allies are at their weakest, whether or not these calls are cynical attempts at stifling debate (ditto the calls to "less rhetoric").

    The premise for most libertarians like myself is this: politicians seek their own agendas which invariably means an accumulation of ever greater amounts of power through greater spending funded by greater taxation. If you recognize that there exists a party that would enact legislation that is antithetical to your private interests, why would you not insist on a government that on balance is minimized in favor of your own personal preferences of how you shop/buy and consumer products and services?

    Lobbyists exist to curry favor for their respective industries. It was Adam Smith who famously said "People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices."

    The solution? Give governments and politicians less power instead of advocating more through advantageous legislation - but this requires an educated public instead of one prone to knee jerk reactions at the height of a crisis - financial "reform" and the "patriot act" being only two recent examples.


    dude,open your eyes...the government and the politicians are almost powerless already...
    as a big corporation you get any legislation you paid for....this system works so well, so your profits are so high that you can sit and block the other competitors, while overcharging your customers for an ancient product...
    everybody is happy with the status-quo as it is...
    your posts are more like a mirror for you...you need to see how great you look or sound, but for the rest of us,its boring to read and boring to answer the same bitching and whining.
    dont you have something better to do on a friday night?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 22, 2011 2:29 AM GMT
    SoBeCamera saiddude,open your eyes...the government and the politicians are almost powerless already...
    as a big corporation you get any legislation you paid for....this system works so well, so your profits are so high that you can sit and block the other competitors, while overcharging your customers for an ancient product...
    everybody is happy with the status-quo as it is...
    your posts are more like a mirror for you...you need to see how great you look or sound, but for the rest of us,its boring to read and boring to answer the same bitching and whining.
    dont you have something better to do on a friday night?


    Dude, open your eyes, the life span of the average Fortune 500 company is falling not increasing - the big don't get bigger, instead the bigger they are, the harder they fall. Technology has only accelerated competition - and if you ask CEOs today what they fear most, they will often tell you it's two guys in a garage coming up with a revolutionary way of doing things.

    As for having something better to do on a Friday night? One might ask that of you. It's Saturday morning for me.
  • SoBeCamera

    Posts: 74

    Jan 22, 2011 2:42 AM GMT
    riddler78 said
    SoBeCamera saiddude,open your eyes...the government and the politicians are almost powerless already...
    as a big corporation you get any legislation you paid for....this system works so well, so your profits are so high that you can sit and block the other competitors, while overcharging your customers for an ancient product...
    everybody is happy with the status-quo as it is...
    your posts are more like a mirror for you...you need to see how great you look or sound, but for the rest of us,its boring to read and boring to answer the same bitching and whining.
    dont you have something better to do on a friday night?


    Dude, open your eyes, the life span of the average Fortune 500 company is falling not increasing - the big don't get bigger, instead the bigger they are, the harder they fall. Technology has only accelerated competition - and if you ask CEOs today what they fear most, they will often tell you it's two guys in a garage coming up with a revolutionary way of doing things.

    As for having something better to do on a Friday night? One might ask that of you. It's Saturday morning for me.


    lets save the poor fortune 500 corporations....buy more overpriced crap.
    yes, you are right, who doesnt ask a CEO on a daily basis and they have all the same fear...icon_smile.gif
    when will you use the last phrase about the natural flow of the markets? and your post will sound exactly the other ones...
    even if im new here, i already heard this before...844 posts of the same old crap.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 22, 2011 2:54 AM GMT
    SoBeCamera saidlets save the poor fortune 500 corporations....buy more overpriced crap.
    yes, you are right, who doesnt ask a CEO on a daily basis and they have all the same fear...icon_smile.gif
    when will you use the last phrase about the natural flow of the markets? and your post will sound exactly the other ones...
    even if im new here, i already heard this before...844 posts of the same old crap.


    Feel free to block my posts if you feel they don't add any value to you. That you would react the way you do and attempt to stifle them, suggests otherwise. The irony is that my posting is in reaction to others here and further, that you would react specifically to my postings over those of others more allied to your political perspective speaks either to your character or intellect.

    Faced with facts - like the reality that corporations don't act as one entity and even the largest must continually struggle for survival, you feel you have no choice to respond with personal attacks.

    Yep you hear but you don't listen. Figures.
  • SoBeCamera

    Posts: 74

    Jan 22, 2011 3:18 AM GMT
    riddler78 said
    SoBeCamera saidlets save the poor fortune 500 corporations....buy more overpriced crap.
    yes, you are right, who doesnt ask a CEO on a daily basis and they have all the same fear...icon_smile.gif
    when will you use the last phrase about the natural flow of the markets? and your post will sound exactly the other ones...
    even if im new here, i already heard this before...844 posts of the same old crap.


    Feel free to block my posts if you feel they don't add any value to you. That you would react the way you do and attempt to stifle them, suggests otherwise. The irony is that my posting is in reaction to others here and further, that you would react specifically to my postings over those of others more allied to your political perspective speaks either to your character or intellect.

    Faced with facts - like the reality that corporations don't act as one entity and even the largest must continually struggle for survival, you feel you have no choice to respond with personal attacks.

    Yep you hear but you don't listen. Figures.


    i have no character, intellect and political perspectives.
    just tell me that you know guys who look better than me and it will be exactly the same answer i get when i critique a post like yours.
    its so much fun to comment, because it seams that you really believe what you writing...you get so passionate about bullshitting others,that you take yourself too serious.
    dont get so easily upset, it ruins the pure beauty of your image you trying to build here.
    even if you post 10 topics at once ...its all the same boring stuff. you repeat yourself, but it doesnt make your statements more true.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 22, 2011 3:24 AM GMT
    SoBeCamera saidi have no character, intellect and political perspectives.
    just tell me that you know guys who look better than me and it will be exactly the same answer i get when i critique a post like yours.
    its so much fun to comment, because it seams that you really believe what you writing...you get so passionate about bullshitting others,that you take yourself too serious.
    dont get so easily upset, it ruins the pure beauty of your image you trying to build here.
    even if you post 10 topics at once ...its all the same boring stuff. you repeat yourself, but it doesnt make your statements more true.


    Pity, you assume that it actually takes much effort or time to respond to your non-responses. Truth be told, I do take a bit of joy in making light of those like yourself especially as you make assumptions as to my emotional state without ever addressing a single point - particularly as your own get eviscerated by reason and facts.

    Again, that you would insist that my responses are repetitious and add little of merit and refuse to address similar concerns of others speaks more of you than me. I'm passionate about certain subjects, and that passion drives me to read and learn more - it doesn't mean that I get bothered by those who disagree. Though it does somewhat sadden me that this not appear to be the case for you.
  • SoBeCamera

    Posts: 74

    Jan 22, 2011 3:40 AM GMT
    riddler78 said
    SoBeCamera saidi have no character, intellect and political perspectives.
    just tell me that you know guys who look better than me and it will be exactly the same answer i get when i critique a post like yours.
    its so much fun to comment, because it seams that you really believe what you writing...you get so passionate about bullshitting others,that you take yourself too serious.
    dont get so easily upset, it ruins the pure beauty of your image you trying to build here.
    even if you post 10 topics at once ...its all the same boring stuff. you repeat yourself, but it doesnt make your statements more true.


    Pity, you assume that it actually takes much effort or time to respond to your non-responses. Truth be told, I do take a bit of joy in making light of those like yourself especially as you make assumptions as to my emotional state without ever addressing a single point - particularly as your own get eviscerated by reason and facts.

    Again, that you would insist that my responses are repetitious and add little of merit and refuse to address similar concerns of others speaks more of you than me. I'm passionate about certain subjects, and that passion drives me to read and learn more - it doesn't mean that I get bothered by those who disagree. Though it does somewhat sadden me that this not appear to be the case for you.


    please,dont be sad, you have 5 more topics to follow. they all need your attention and expertise...
    its great that you read and learn, we have enough people here,who only watch tv, but why you have to post all this?
    less is more...all the posts are worthless if its just the same old content...
    stop for a moment ...breath...skipping to post a link sounds like a much better idea, right?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 22, 2011 3:45 AM GMT
    riddler78 said
    SoBeCamera saidlets save the poor fortune 500 corporations....buy more overpriced crap.
    yes, you are right, who doesnt ask a CEO on a daily basis and they have all the same fear...icon_smile.gif
    when will you use the last phrase about the natural flow of the markets? and your post will sound exactly the other ones...
    even if im new here, i already heard this before...844 posts of the same old crap.


    Feel free to block my posts if you feel they don't add any value to you. That you would react the way you do and attempt to stifle them, suggests otherwise. The irony is that my posting is in reaction to others here and further, that you would react specifically to my postings over those of others more allied to your political perspective speaks either to your character or intellect.

    Faced with facts - like the reality that corporations don't act as one entity and even the largest must continually struggle for survival, you feel you have no choice to respond with personal attacks.

    Yep you hear but you don't listen. Figures.




    Riddler78, There's something becoming GLARINGLY obvious in my eyes, Its an I'm always right frame of reference coming from you, thats similar to another person on RJ. Let me introduce you to Ceaserea4, he can tell you all about always being right and how important it is that he inform everyone of his being correct on every subject. I really think the two of you should get together and have a "WE ARE ALWAYS RIGHT FEST" maybe then the two of you would stop being so ruinous to conversation where the rest of us are concerned.

    Lets see if you can take the point and have a conversation with the rest of us mere mortals or like C4, you cannot take, understand, nor abide condescending to taking a point from mere mortals who are in need of being informed, not ever learned from..
  • SoBeCamera

    Posts: 74

    Jan 22, 2011 3:58 AM GMT






    Riddler78, There's something becoming GLARINGLY obvious in my eyes, Its an I'm always right frame of reference coming from you, thats similar to another person on RJ. Let me introduce you to Ceaserea4, he can tell you all about always being right and how important it is that he inform everyone of his being correct on every subject. I really think the two of you should get together and have a "WE ARE ALWAYS RIGHT FEST" maybe then the two of you would stop being so ruinous to conversation where the rest of us are concerned.

    Lets see if you can take the point and have a conversation with the rest of us mere mortals or like C4, you cannot take, understand, nor abide condescending to taking a point from mere mortals who are in need of being informed, not ever learned from..[/quote]

    we can focus our discussions how to make our lives better without the help of any politicians and party.
    we all have more things in common, than we want to admit.
    networking can be a start...
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14342

    Jan 22, 2011 6:15 PM GMT
    I have been saying this all along that both democrats and republicans are just out for their own self aggrandizement. They don't give a shit about the American people, they only care about their public image and most important their pocketbooks. The US needs to start embracing and supporting the alternative political parties and give both the democrats and the republicans an eviction notice from Washington, all state capitals, and all county, city, suburban, and rural governments as well. In todays day and age, political experience is largely worthless because an experienced politician equals a career politician which in turn equals a corrupt, self serving politician. Need I say more?icon_question.gif