CNN: Piers Morgan takes popular Christian preacher to task. I have a new hero.

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    Jan 28, 2011 3:45 AM GMT


    I'm a big fan if CNN, and I wasn't too sure about this new interview show with Piers Morgan. But after I see him rip Joel Olsteen a new one I've decided, I really LIKE this guy.

    http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=US#/watch?xl=xl_blazer&v=XCXouXmzIm4

    Reverend Smiley-face gets put on the spot over his views on homosexuality, and finally cops out with "oh, it's a big issue and I don't fully understand it."
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    Jan 28, 2011 3:55 AM GMT
    I saw that part of the interview and Piers did a good job pursuing Osteen on the gay issue, following up with questions and comments and not letting him off the hook.

    Osteen gave the same basic answer over and over again, and I kind of enjoyed seeing him squirm. Guess he was in a bit of a spot. . . he's a people pleaser who wants everyone to love him. Problem is, the people who send him money. . . many of them, probably homophobes. . . are the ones he loves the most.
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    Jan 28, 2011 7:27 AM GMT
    I have yet to attend any of Osteen's services but occasionally watch snippets on Sunday morning. He certainly has a cheerful disposition and overall I believe his message is one of love (compared to some of the fundamentalist Christian preachers out there).

    Morgan should be applauded for pressing the issue of homosexuality and I agree that Osteen's response (about not being sure whether he understands it all) was a cop out. Unfortunately, Osteen also propagated misinformation about homosexuality, lumping it together with addictions.


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    Jan 28, 2011 8:27 AM GMT
    Amen! (((applauds))) Piers did a great job there.

    IF Joel is an honest man, he will take his own words to heart. If he says he does not understand homosexuality then he should NOT preach on the topic.

    PM8




  • CarbGoggles

    Posts: 705

    Jan 28, 2011 10:25 AM GMT
    It seems like Piers doesn't understand faith as much as Osteen doesn't understand homosexuality being a sin. Christians put their faith in the words of the bible because they believe it is the word of God. Faithful Christians don't question the bible. They follow what it says not because they agree but because they walk by faith. Osteen gave a legitimate answer from the prospective of a Christian who walks by faith. Sorry if it's not what Piers and Elton want to hear. At least Osteen isn't telling his followers to rebuke all homos with rocks.
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Jan 28, 2011 10:38 AM GMT
    I like that Piers exposes him for the little weasley liar that he is
    We all know he calls homosexuality a sin and tells that to his followers
    but he was backpedalling with Piers like mad because a national audience wouldn't take his shit
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    Jan 28, 2011 10:45 AM GMT
    I like how this debate was somewhat calm. I can't stand when people get crazy,start interrupting people and it just turns into a hot mess.
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    Jan 28, 2011 10:46 AM GMT
    Their are too many contradictions in the bible in order for people to "follow" it. That is why they pick and choose.

    For one, it says you are supposed to love thy neighbor as thyself, but then it says it is ok to have slaves.

    I guess Olsteen can justify his "victoria secret" addiction has holy. Not sure how. Have they produced enough children, or do they just "keep trying"?

    And I remember a phase about a camel and an eye of the needle.

    A book wrote by white men to control the masses.

    If everyone just treated people like they would like to be treated, we wouldn't need people preaching at us how to behave.

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    Jan 28, 2011 10:50 AM GMT
    The preacher has a right to his beliefs, too be able to express them to his congregation. The Bible does state homosexuality is wrong, and it's right to use that. I myself do not feel upset or threatend when a religus person says homosexuality is wrong. I have no need to abuse them or insight hate for them as many other bis and gays do.

    God does not hate fags, but he does not agree with all our activities either.
  • CarbGoggles

    Posts: 705

    Jan 28, 2011 11:23 AM GMT
    True_Blue_Aussie saidThe preacher has a right to his beliefs, too be able to express them to his congregation. The Bible does state homosexuality is wrong, and it's right to use that. I myself do not feel upset or threatend when a religus person says homosexuality is wrong. I have no need to abuse them or insight hate for them as many other bis and gays do.

    God does not hate fags, but he does not agree with all our activities either.

    Agreed. To each his own. Christian faith is based on just as much logic as homosexuality. Nobody chose to be straight or gay. There's no mathematical logic behind who we are attracted to. Same goes for faith. Yeah you choose to serve God. However, once you make that choice that's pretty much where the logic ends... A good and faithful servant puts their faith in the word of God (the bible.) Walk by faith not by site is how they roll. To an outsider faith can easily be viewed as ignorant. Likewise, the same can be said of homosexuality.
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    Jan 28, 2011 12:34 PM GMT
    CarbGoggles saidIt seems like Piers doesn't understand faith as much as Osteen doesn't understand homosexuality being a sin. Christians put their faith in the words of the bible because they believe it is the word of God. Faithful Christians don't question the bible. They follow what it says not because they agree but because they walk by faith. Osteen gave a legitimate answer from the prospective of a Christian who walks by faith. Sorry if it's not what Piers and Elton want to hear. At least Osteen isn't telling his followers to rebuke all homos with rocks.


    But isn't there some question whether the Bible really does condemn homosexuality in any way that can be considered applicable to how it's understood today? There certainly are people who believe, and have presented evidence, that the Biblical admonitions that are supposedly against homosexuality have been misinterpreted and sometimes even mistranslated.

    http://www.soulforce.org/article/homosexuality-bible-gay-christian

    Not to mention that you'll find almost no one who actually lives by every word of the Bible. I mean, who actually washes himself if he has the misfortune to sit on a chair that had been sat in during the preceding two weeks by a woman who was having her period? How would he even know?

    I'd like to see someone knowledgeable debate Olsteen on these questions.
  • DanOmatic

    Posts: 1155

    Jan 28, 2011 12:49 PM GMT
    Regarding Christianity: 2,000 years from now, people will look back and (hopefully) say "Did people really believe that crap?" similar to how we today consider the kookiness and capricious qualities of the Greek myths or Egyptian hagiography. Nice, strange (and badly written) story, the Bible, but to me it's simply another set of myths. Only through reason and inquiry do we grow as a civilization, and hopefully the hypocrisies of people like Joel Osteen and others will be revealed in the process.
  • LuckyGuyKC

    Posts: 2080

    Jan 28, 2011 1:20 PM GMT
    If you want a quick education on how to thoughtfully discuss the Biblical historical context of what was written in the Hebrew texts see this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDKL-f9Iwds

    I call my good Evangelical friends (as does someone on this video) selective readers. If you read all of Leviticus & Exodus - it becomes clear that these Evangelicals only want to enforce the word of God selectively.
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    Jan 28, 2011 2:17 PM GMT
    Pierce did a good job with Joel.

    My only problem with interviews on this subject is that I've never heard anyone try to force an answer as to why these preachers are selective in bible passages they choose to follow.

    We all know that there are several passages from the bible that are no longer taken verbatim: it is a sin to eat shellfish and rabbit, it is also a sin to mix linen and wool, etc. Yet the passages from Leviticus on men lying with men are taken as absolute law.

    While many interviewers have asked about these discrepancies I have never actually seen one receive a reply, or follow up to force a response. This question is always dodged by preachers, and no one calls them on it. I'll never understand that.

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    Jan 28, 2011 2:39 PM GMT
    lol, the interviewer should have challenged the preacher on Ezekiel and what he said the sin of Sodom really was. icon_wink.gif

    -Doug
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19119

    Jan 28, 2011 2:44 PM GMT
    CarbGoggles saidOsteen gave a legitimate answer from the prospective of a Christian who walks by faith. Sorry if it's not what Piers and Elton want to hear. At least Osteen isn't telling his followers to rebuke all homos with rocks.


    I watched the interview and I must say I agree with this ^^^^^ No, it's not what Piers, or any gay person, wanted to hear but nonetheless it was an honest response coming from the perspective of a devout Christian. Joel Osteen was not condemning gays, he was merely expressing that the scriptures call homosexuality a "sin". He also made the valid point that all people commit sins of various kinds, and that when it came to the subject of "homosexuality", it was a subject that he himself did not fully understand. I did appreciate Piers Morgan pressing Osteen on the subject, but at the same time I think Osteen handled it with honesty and respect.
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    Jan 28, 2011 2:54 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    CarbGoggles saidOsteen gave a legitimate answer from the prospective of a Christian who walks by faith. Sorry if it's not what Piers and Elton want to hear. At least Osteen isn't telling his followers to rebuke all homos with rocks.


    I watched the interview and I must say I agree with this ^^^^^ No, it's not what Piers, or any gay person, wanted to hear but nonetheless it was an honest response coming from the perspective of a devout Christian. Joel Osteen was not condemning gays, he was merely expressing that the scriptures call homosexuality a "sin". He also made the valid point that all people commit sins of various kinds, and that when it came to the subject of "homosexuality", it was a subject that he himself did not fully understand. I did appreciate Piers Morgan pressing Osteen on the subject, but at the same time I think Osteen handled it with honesty and respect.


    Oh dear. Osteen gives the answer his culture wants to hear and he doesn´t understand why, apart from vague words about it being "what the bible says". With so many people listening to him he needs to get it straight.

    I was hoping that you weren´t going to go there...
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    Jan 28, 2011 2:54 PM GMT
    For CuriousjockAZ: Some of the religious go and on about sodomy the sin of homosexuality. This is where other tomes get the 'lying with a man as with a woman stuff' - anal sex.

    So lets go waaaaaaaaayyy back into the bible's OT where all this trouble started and see what Ezekiel, hearing God, wrote:

    I've included several versions of the bible. As you can see it had zero to do with homosexuality.

    "New International Version (©1984)
    "'Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.

    New Living Translation (©2007)
    Sodom's sins were pride, gluttony, and laziness, while the poor and needy suffered outside her door.

    English Standard Version (©2001)
    Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy.

    New American Standard Bible (©1995)
    "Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had arrogance, abundant food and careless ease, but she did not help the poor and needy.

    GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
    This is what your sister Sodom has done wrong. She and her daughters were proud that they had plenty of food and had peace and security. They didn't help the poor and the needy.

    King James Bible
    Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.

    American King James Version
    Behold, this was the iniquity of your sister Sodom, pride, fullness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.

    American Standard Version
    Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom: pride, fulness of bread, and prosperous ease was in her and in her daughters; neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.
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    Jan 28, 2011 3:14 PM GMT
    PHLmuscle8 saidAmen! (((applauds))) Piers did a great job there. IF Joel is an honest man, he will take his own words to heart. If he says he does not understand homosexuality then he should NOT preach on the topic.
    PM8


    Joel DOESN'T preach on the topic. As he says in the interview, it only comes up in interviews when he's asked point blank. Joel's preaching is not the hell fire and brimstone type of preaching.
    Here, I thought he responded quite humbly and respectfully about it.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19119

    Jan 28, 2011 3:15 PM GMT
    Lostboy said

    I was hoping that you weren´t going to go there...


    Hoping I would go where --- being open-minded enough to understanding and accepting that most the world ISN'T gay, and thus does not see the world through the same eyes and mind of those who are gay?
  • CAtoFL

    Posts: 834

    Jan 28, 2011 3:20 PM GMT
    Thanks for this post.

    I'm impressed by Piers. Osteen, on the other hand, has all the depth of a smiley face. And this is why he's popular. People want to belong. They want to be the 'we' of the 'we versus them'. Our recent past is litered with these guys who prey on the frailties of the disenfranchised. From Jim and Tammy, Ted Haggard, and so forth, they're repeatedly exposed as what they are - simply people interpreting and misinterpreting a vague text.

    To buy into these tent shows, to subscribe to their nonsense with time and money ... it's all a pointless and useless exercise and has been for all of time. You'd have to be blind not to see that this is about money and fame. These guys are C-list entertainers with only one script to work from. And to get their 15 minutes of fame, they have to hammer into their not-so-brilliant flock that 'we' are better than 'they'. That's all it's about.

    Where's chuckystud to give us his 'false belief system' treatise? That's infinitely more appealing than Osteen's McDonald's-ish take on religion.
  • Aquanerd

    Posts: 845

    Jan 28, 2011 3:35 PM GMT
    Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. (NIV, 1st Corinthians 6:9-11)

    This is the passages that most evangelicals and Conservative Christians tend to forget about.

    Even when looking through Heterosexual Christian eyes, when you read this, you can no longer prop Homosexuality as any greater sin, than those that most everyone is guilty of on a daily basis. And that last versus, negates the homosexual act as a "condemnable act."

    The true beauty of the real Christian teaching is that fact that no one is perfect, yet all can find peace through Jesus Christ. There are many Christian preachers and other leaders that understand and teach this, in regard to homosexuality and all "sins." Yet sadly, the MMS ignores them in order to maintain the false ideas, of both Christians and non-Christians.

    What Piers and Olsteen are both guilty of is perpetuating ignorance about what real Christianity is about. Lucky for me, my faith, and forgiveness, and peace is not effected by them or others. Christianity is a one on one relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ and me.

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    Jan 28, 2011 4:35 PM GMT
    Draper said
    CuriousJockAZ said
    CarbGoggles saidOsteen gave a legitimate answer from the prospective of a Christian who walks by faith. Sorry if it's not what Piers and Elton want to hear. At least Osteen isn't telling his followers to rebuke all homos with rocks.


    I watched the interview and I must say I agree with this ^^^^^ No, it's not what Piers, or any gay person, wanted to hear but nonetheless it was an honest response coming from the perspective of a devout Christian. Joel Osteen was not condemning gays, he was merely expressing that the scriptures call homosexuality a "sin". He also made the valid point that all people commit sins of various kinds, and that when it came to the subject of "homosexuality", it was a subject that he himself did not fully understand. I did appreciate Piers Morgan pressing Osteen on the subject, but at the same time I think Osteen handled it with honesty and respect.


    It was in interesting discourse, and Osteen said that gay people come to his church. A common misconception is that the Bible condemns homosexuals. It doesn't. It condemns men anally sodomizing each other...and they can be gay, straight or bi. And whether you believe the Bible or not, it is somewhat prophetic: a book that is thousands of years old condemned an act which became popularized in the late 20th century essentially causing a gay plague.

    And gays shouldn't get all bent out of shape over the Bible when it condemns them less than 10 times and condemns straight people over 300 times. People focus too much on the negative. The Bible also says: honor your mother and father, don't steal, don't kill, love thy neighbor, don't cheat, defend and help the poor, etc, and many other positive things people do whether they follow the Bible or not.



    Sorry, but have to call this what it is. Bullshit. The Bible NEVER mentions anal sex. Although I'm sure your little g0y heart wish it did. This is the problem with the Bible. People add to it and subtract from it whatever they want to reinforce their own personal viewpoints. The misinterpretations of the Bible have caused so much trouble in the world. I don't think the blame falls on the Bible. It falls on what people have said the Bible says. I, for one, would not take Osteen's interpretation of the Bible that seriously. Sorry, but he just doesn't come off as that bright. He has also admitted he's not that educated. He didn't go to seminary and he has probably done zero research on the subject of homosexuality. Why would anyone even look to him for his viewpoint on this subject? Lazy people who don't want to do their own research and just take what he says as truth because he's standing behind a pulpit. That's who.

    On a side note; man, Piers Morgan is such a better interviewer than Larry King!
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    Jan 28, 2011 5:13 PM GMT
    jprichva saidCome on, guys, is there anyone gayer on television than Osteen?
    I mean, look at him. My gaydar jumps off the charts whenever I see him.
    I bet he squeaks when he's fucked.



    Several years ago I read an article in a Seventh Day Adventist Christian Magazine about Preachers and their lack of Masculine 'traits' and activities in their daily lives. I thought it was interesting how well the article exposed Preachers as generally effeminate, few of them according to the article rated very high on interests in what 'normally' would be considered masculine activities.

    This preacher is just typical, soft spoken, smiling all the time with sickeningly over nice actions, with buttery soft fingers that would probably bleed if a hammer were put in their hands. These guys got these soft preacher jobs because they couldn't handle mans work, then most of them come down on Gays, and its often to cover what they see in themselves.

    Show me a preacher and I'll show you a girly wimp in relation to everyday life in a mans world, they actually make the average gay guy look masculine.
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    Jan 28, 2011 5:28 PM GMT
    I don't know about you, but I see right through the smiles of evangelists like this. No matter how happy they appear to be.