Mother shoots her 2 teens for being "mouthy"

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    Jan 29, 2011 4:19 PM GMT
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/29/mom-charged-in-kids-slayi_n_815769.htmlTAMPA, Fla. (AP) – When police responded to a call from a concerned relative and found Julie Schenecker on the back porch of her Tampa home, they said she was covered in blood and made a gut-wrenching admission: She had killed her teenage son and daughter because they were "mouthy."

    Police said the military officer's wife, described by her mother as depressed, shot and killed her son on the way to soccer practice, then drove to their upscale home and shot her daughter in the head while the girl studied at her computer.

    "I think we will never understand how or why a mother could take the lives of her children," police spokeswoman Laura McElroy said. "That was the only reason she provided to our detectives."


    later in the articleMcElroy said investigators believe the teens "never saw it coming." Both were killed with a .38-caliber pistol. Police said the weapon was purchased five days earlier, The Tampa Tribune reported.

    The family's home is on a cul-de-sac in a gated country club community in north Tampa.
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    Jan 29, 2011 4:47 PM GMT
    Awful. She's a bit old for schizophrenia onset.
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    Jan 29, 2011 10:33 PM GMT
    No, more like depression (which can cause psychosis).
    The point is, even a middle class housewife with every right to a gun (being the wife of an career Army officer) can shoot her children dead. If we can't even guarantee safe use of guns in such hands, what hope do we have for other less savory people?
    The American fetish for guns would have been much safer if it were for less deadly things like, say, bow and arrow, which need more skill for lethality.
  • CuriousJockAZ

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    Jan 29, 2011 10:37 PM GMT
    Damn, I guess I should feel lucky -- when I was a "mouthy" kid, my Dad just took the belt to me icon_eek.gif
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    Jan 29, 2011 10:41 PM GMT
    Wow. This is shocking and disturbing. I know there's much worse out there but seriously, I don't know how someone can be that detached from life, let alone from their OWN children...Condolences to the family, and I hope she gets help/incarceration.

    I just got the belt too
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    Jan 29, 2011 10:45 PM GMT
    Sometimes I wonder if the Medea legend is more of a rationalization of maternal depression rather than jealousy against Jason's new wife.
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    Jan 30, 2011 12:08 AM GMT
    only in Florida icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Jan 30, 2011 12:20 AM GMT
    q1w2e3 said
    The point is, even a middle class housewife with every right to a gun (being the wife of an career Army officer) can shoot her children dead.


    I didn't realize this incident of mental instability had an agenda
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    Jan 30, 2011 12:24 AM GMT
    No agenda necessary, just my reflection on the role of a particular gun in this tragedy.
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    Jan 30, 2011 12:36 AM GMT
    q1w2e3 saidNo agenda necessary, just my reflection on the role of a particular gun in this tragedy.


    we should either outlaw guns or outlaw Florida.
  • needleninja

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    Jan 30, 2011 12:38 AM GMT
    hmmmm i would very much like to know what type of unknown condition she has. very interesting.
  • tuffguyndc

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    Jan 30, 2011 12:44 AM GMT
    this is so sad. i can't believe that people would think about gun laws when 2 young people died. the only thing i can say is wow
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    Jan 30, 2011 12:48 AM GMT
    q1w2e3 saidSometimes I wonder if the Medea legend is more of a rationalization of maternal depression rather than jealousy against Jason's new wife.


    Could be. One of my aunts had terrible postpartum depression.
  • BeingThePhoen...

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    Jan 30, 2011 2:02 AM GMT
    JAKEBENSON said
    q1w2e3 saidNo agenda necessary, just my reflection on the role of a particular gun in this tragedy.


    we should either outlaw guns or outlaw Florida.

    Florida! Good god, please Florida. What did those poor guns ever do. icon_cool.gif
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    Jan 30, 2011 2:03 AM GMT
    Something similar in Indiana (mom kills self too):
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_fatal_indiana_fire
    Ohio:
    http://www.wtov9.com/news/25299775/detail.html
    Florida (3 years ago):
    http://www.wtsp.com/news/local/crime/story.aspx?storyid=93295&catid=82
    Another Indiana case:
    http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20110124/NEWS02/301240075/Austin-mother-killed-her-3-children-in-murder-suicide-police-say
    A psychiatry paper on filicide:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2174580/

    Guns only make up 20% of filicide back in the 80's, according to a 2002 article; I wonder if there's any trend up or down:
    http://www.slate.com/id/2063086/Perhaps more revealing than the differences in why they kill their offspring are the differences between how fathers and mothers do so. For one thing, parental murderers tend to be highly physical. According to a 1988 survey done by the U.S. Justice Department, while 61 percent of all murder defendants used a gun in 1988, only 20 percent of the parents who killed their children used one. Children were drowned and shaken, beaten, poisoned, stabbed, and suffocated. These methods betray a certain "craziness" in both genders—they betray an intense passion and a lack of planning.
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    Jan 30, 2011 2:05 AM GMT
    BeingThePhoenix said
    JAKEBENSON said
    q1w2e3 saidNo agenda necessary, just my reflection on the role of a particular gun in this tragedy.


    we should either outlaw guns or outlaw Florida.

    Florida! Good god, please Florida. What did those poor guns ever do. icon_cool.gif


    icon_lol.gif You are the winner of this thread.
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    Jan 30, 2011 2:08 AM GMT
    A more recent article (I actually went to med school with the lead author) in Cuyahoga County (Ohio):
    http://www.jaapl.org/cgi/content/full/33/4/496The large majority (73%) of parents killed their children by shooting, including 7 (70%) mothers and 15 (75%) fathers. Other methods—sometimes used in combination—included beating (10%), drowning in a car (7%), suffocation (7%), stabbing (7%), arson (3%), carbon monoxide poisoning (3%), and strangulation (3%). All but four of the parents (87%) used the same method to kill themselves as they had used to kill their children. No parent had an accomplice or attempted to dispose of evidence.
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    Jan 30, 2011 2:41 AM GMT
    And she writes a review on the subject in 2005 too. She distinguishes between infanticide and filicide and finds that:
    http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/162/9/1578
    Administrative records sample studies of maternal filicide conducted outside the United States found mental illness (psychosis, depression with suicidality) in approximately one-half of the mothers. Some of these studies noted histories of child abuse and domestic violence, and some noted child-related factors, such as persistent crying, as precipitants of the mothers’ violence. Mothers who committed filicide were frequently socioeconomically disadvantaged and had primary responsibility for their children. Studies of psychiatric samples conducted outside the United States noted high rates of psychiatric symptoms, particularly depression and psychosis, as well as prior use of psychiatric services, prior psychiatric admissions, and suicidality. The mothers often experienced considerable life stress, including being abused themselves. Filicidal mothers in non-U.S. correctional populations were also likely to have a history of previous use of psychiatric services and high rates of mental illness (depression and psychosis). The mothers in these cases of filicide were likely to have social and economic stresses, a history of abuse, unsupportive partners, primary caregiver status, and difficulties caring for the child.


    However she concludes that data on maternal filicide is meager, and her paper presents a set of research proposals to overcome the obvious problems of selection bias, lack of comparison groups, heterogeneity of inclusion criteria, and the relative lack of data in the US compared to other countries.
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    Jan 30, 2011 8:55 PM GMT
    Christian73 saidCould be. One of my aunts had terrible postpartum depression.

    I didn't think postpartum depression persists that long to apply in this situation. The youngest child was 13 years, I believe.
  • Webster666

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    Jan 30, 2011 8:57 PM GMT
    Is this what the Second Amendment means by "a well regulated militia ?"
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    Jan 30, 2011 9:08 PM GMT
    jprichva said
    Well, you know that Jews don't consider a fetus viable until it has been accepted to graduate school.


    I thought it had to cinch marriage to a prominent doctor fetus
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    Jan 30, 2011 9:21 PM GMT
    JAKEBENSON saidonly in Florida icon_rolleyes.gif


    Wrong

    Only in America
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    Jan 30, 2011 9:26 PM GMT
    Sad.
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    Jan 30, 2011 9:37 PM GMT
    JAKEBENSON saidonly in Florida icon_rolleyes.gif


    Seriously?? You need to tune into the news more often. It happens quite often in a lot of other states.
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    Jan 30, 2011 9:40 PM GMT
    jprichva said
    Art_Deco said
    Christian73 saidCould be. One of my aunts had terrible postpartum depression.

    I didn't think postpartum depression persists that long to apply in this situation. The youngest child was 13 years, I believe.

    Well, you know that Jews don't consider a fetus viable until it has been accepted to graduate school.

    You do know you are the worst? icon_rolleyes.gif