Dress code at a bar, racist or not?

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    Feb 04, 2011 2:55 PM GMT
    So my friends own a gay bar which is hugely popular in Madison WI. Thursday nights are their underage nights which unfortunately tends to draw an unsavory crowd. Due to fights, people getting jumped, and people feeling unsafe, they have imposed a dress code on Thursday nights only which includes no bandanas, hats, hoods, jerseys, or anything of that nature. Of course, all the young little things are in uproar about this and are accusing the bar of being racist, when in fact that just isn't so.

    In my mind, when I imagine the kind of people who dress this way I don't imagine anyone or color or any sort of minority. I see a white guy who is more prone to violence and for whom things like contrasting bandanas and hoods is a viable reason to jump someone. My friends aren't looking to keep anyone out, they are solely looking to keep their underage nights free of violence and keep everyone feeling safe. There was a problem, and they're dealing with it.

    I get how this dress code could be racist but assuming so is racist in and of itself, isn't it? They are assuming that only people of a certain race dress this way when that is not so. I went out last night and I can tell you that there were just as many patrons of color as their have ever been, and that more caucasians were violating the dress code and asked to remove their articles of clothing than anything. Honestly it was a non-issue and I'm looking for some validation that I can bring to the discussion. Also, upon examination, everyone arguing that this new dress code is racist seems to be white, which strikes me as pretty funny.

    All in all, in my opinion it's a bunch of young wanna-be humanitarians leaping at an opportunity to stand for something when in all actuality no one's rights, freedoms or liberties are being questioned. I think they need to realize when something is worth fighting for and when it isn't. My friends have no intention of offending anyone and thinking otherwise is preposterous and frankly someone wanting to make a situation out of nothing.
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    Feb 04, 2011 3:04 PM GMT
    Just end under-age night. Problem solved.
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    Feb 04, 2011 3:11 PM GMT
    I live close to Madison and I go to the place of which you speak. I remember when it first opened how pleasant it was and how safe I felt, now it is getting overrun by ghetto scum and there is absolutely nothing wrong with the owners wanting to maintain a higher level dress code. I have been deterred lately from going because of the riffraff.

    The owners are not racist in the least, I know them enough to be sure of that. I would guess that they feel the situation has escalated enough to where they want to preserve their reputation.

    The dress code applies to everyone, not just one race. Also, the whole idea of liberties being taken away is absurd. It is a PRIVATELY OWNED place. The owners can and should be able to do whatever they want. It isn't a public park. Nobody is being forced to go into the place.
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    Feb 04, 2011 3:29 PM GMT
    mocktwinkie saidI live close to Madison and I go to the place of which you speak. I remember when it first opened how pleasant it was and how safe I felt, now it is getting overrun by ghetto scum and there is absolutely nothing wrong with the owners wanting to maintain a higher level dress code. I have been deterred lately from going because of the riffraff.

    The owners are not racist in the least, I know them enough to be sure of that. I would guess that they feel the situation has escalated enough to where they want to preserve their reputation.

    The dress code applies to everyone, not just one race. Also, the whole idea of liberties being taken away is absurd. It is a PRIVATELY OWNED place. The owners can and should be able to do whatever they want. It isn't a public park. Nobody is being forced to go into the place.

    Interesting discussion, and dilemma. I want to fall on the liberties side of the argument, that clothes are a personal expression, provided they aren't obscene in public or a wild provocation (and even that's open to interpretation & adjudication). At the same time, I see the owner's problem. I have never known gay clubs or bars to regularly have fights or disturbances. And when there was the very rare fight, it was always lesbians! Go figure!

    BTW, is there a name to this place? I was in Madison a few years ago for 2 weeks, at the VA hospital associated with the UWM medical school adjoining it. Tethered in my room for 12 days with telemetry cables for an epilepsy study, around 30 pickups on my head and a tight turban, and other monitors all over my body, under TV & audio recorded surveillance 24/7, couldn't shower the whole time. icon_razz.gif

    But then I had a couple of free days at the end, when I could get a pass to go out on the town, while I waited for the VA to arrange my flight back home. So I bluntly asked one of my nurses, a male whom my gaydar had correctly identified as gay, where the gay places were.

    He was a little shocked at first, at my being gay, my boldness in admitting it in a VA hospital, and my assuming he was gay himself. But he recovered and gave me some suggestions, saying Madison didn't offer much, but I only visited one downtown near the VA hospital, a kinda quiet neighborhood-style hangout, whose name I forget.

    So what is this place in question?
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    Feb 04, 2011 3:37 PM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    mocktwinkie saidI live close to Madison and I go to the place of which you speak. I remember when it first opened how pleasant it was and how safe I felt, now it is getting overrun by ghetto scum and there is absolutely nothing wrong with the owners wanting to maintain a higher level dress code. I have been deterred lately from going because of the riffraff.

    The owners are not racist in the least, I know them enough to be sure of that. I would guess that they feel the situation has escalated enough to where they want to preserve their reputation.

    The dress code applies to everyone, not just one race. Also, the whole idea of liberties being taken away is absurd. It is a PRIVATELY OWNED place. The owners can and should be able to do whatever they want. It isn't a public park. Nobody is being forced to go into the place.

    Interesting discussion, and dilemma. I want to fall on the liberties side of the argument, that clothes are a personal expression, provided they aren't obscene in public or a wild provocation (and even that's open to interpretation & adjudication). At the same time, I see the owner's problem. I have never known gay clubs or bars to regularly have fights or disturbances. And when there was the very rare fight, it was always lesbians! Go figure!

    BTW, is there a name to this place? I was in Madison a few years ago for 2 weeks, at the VA hospital associated with the UWM medical school adjoining it. Tethered in my room for 12 days with telemetry cables for an epilepsy study, around 30 pickups on my head and a tight turban, and other monitors all over my body, under TV & audio recorded surveillance 24/7, couldn't shower the whole time. icon_razz.gif

    But then I had a couple of free days at the end, when I could get a pass to go out on the town, while I waited for the VA to arrange my flight back home. So I bluntly asked one of my nurses, a male whom my gaydar had correctly identified as gay, where the gay places were.

    He was a little shocked at first, at my being gay, my boldness in admitting it in a VA hospital, and my assuming he was gay himself. But he recovered and gave me some suggestions, saying Madison didn't offer much, but I only visited one downtown near the VA hospital, a kinda quiet neighborhood-style place, whose name I forget.

    So what is this place in question?


    Plan B. The other major and original dance club is Club 5
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    Feb 04, 2011 5:36 PM GMT
    I don't think the dress code is inherently racist, nor do I think the bar has any reason to stop enforcing their dress code unless they start losing customers and revenue because of it.

    Just be aware of the possibility that the same kinds of people causing trouble can adhere to the dress code and still cause the same kind of ruckus as before. I had to wear school uniforms from grade school up through high school, and I can say that being forced to wear slacks and a button-down shirt instead of baggy jeans and a hoodie does not prevent asshats from being asshats.
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    Feb 04, 2011 6:35 PM GMT
    It isn't.

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    Feb 04, 2011 6:54 PM GMT
    Caslon17000 saidJust end under-age night. Problem solved.


    Couldn't agree more..and since when is "underage" a race????
  • ohioguy12

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    Feb 04, 2011 7:42 PM GMT
    I don't think your dress code sounds racist, but there are some dress codes that seem racist. Generally white people wear their clothes more tight fitting than black guys do. I don't think I wear my clothes abnormally loose, but there is a bar in downtown Cincinnati that won't let me in routinely because they say my clothes are too "baggy" (which really baffles me) and you really need to wear tight fitting clothes to get in there. In that instance I feel like it is racism, but it doesn't sound like yours is racist.
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    Feb 04, 2011 7:49 PM GMT
    mocktwinkie saidPlan B. The other major and original dance club is Club 5

    Ummm... you puzzle me. You must know by now that I'm not very clever or quick. So is this place called Club 5? I've never been there.
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    Feb 04, 2011 8:07 PM GMT
    No, I have been to clubs that tripped and did impose codes that were racist. A club that played hip-hop/top forty all of a sudden started playing nothing but country and a dress code of no blue jean shorts. I knew the guy that worked the door, and he told me that it was to number the amount of black patrons and up the white college students.

    But in this case, I wouldn't call it that.

    As for Mocktwinkie, I've seen your take on racist situations. They don't exist to you.
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    Feb 04, 2011 8:15 PM GMT
    Caslon17000 saidJust end under-age night. Problem solved.


    That's what I told them but to them its about community and having a place for young LGBT'ers to meet, make friends, and feel like they belong.
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    Feb 04, 2011 8:17 PM GMT
    AJeJr88 said
    Caslon17000 saidJust end under-age night. Problem solved.


    That's what I told them but to them its about community and having a place for young LGBT'ers to meet, make friends, and feel like they belong.


    It sounds like a noble effort...but when the police come in and have to break up fights and shit....it ain't worth it.
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    Feb 04, 2011 9:15 PM GMT
    It used to be that upscale restaurants would require the men to wear at least a sport coat when they dine in their establishments, and they would even have a few loan jackets for the customers to wear should they forget... And I often hear commercials on the radio for straight clubs (even those over 21) that dress codes are strictly enforced.

    But why are these young gay kids physically fighting each other? Do they not know how to dance fight? icon_twisted.gif

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    Feb 05, 2011 12:16 AM GMT
    ohioguy12 saidI don't think your dress code sounds racist, but there are some dress codes that seem racist. Generally white people wear their clothes more tight fitting than black guys do. I don't think I wear my clothes abnormally loose, but there is a bar in downtown Cincinnati that won't let me in routinely because they say my clothes are too "baggy" (which really baffles me) and you really need to wear tight fitting clothes to get in there. In that instance I feel like it is racism, but it doesn't sound like yours is racist.


    Take off your clothes. Problem solved.
  • jgymnast733

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    Feb 05, 2011 12:50 AM GMT
    A lot of clubs here in new york city enforce a no bandana rule, but they allow me to wear mine only because they know me....
  • ohioguy12

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    Feb 05, 2011 7:19 AM GMT
    Ermine said
    ohioguy12 saidI don't think your dress code sounds racist, but there are some dress codes that seem racist. Generally white people wear their clothes more tight fitting than black guys do. I don't think I wear my clothes abnormally loose, but there is a bar in downtown Cincinnati that won't let me in routinely because they say my clothes are too "baggy" (which really baffles me) and you really need to wear tight fitting clothes to get in there. In that instance I feel like it is racism, but it doesn't sound like yours is racist.


    Take off your clothes. Problem solved.


    Haha, I should give that a try sometime, but no one wants to see that icon_lol.gif
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    Feb 05, 2011 7:54 AM GMT
    Caslon17000 saidJust end under-age night. Problem solved.


    I'm with Caslon. The underage thing is just dumb and asking for problems in the first place.

    My partner owns a gay bar here in KC and doing an underage night was suggested to us. We turned the idea down flatly because we KNEW it would be nothing but what you're describing.

    Your friends just need to end the underage night.
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    Feb 05, 2011 7:57 AM GMT
    AJeJr88 said
    Caslon17000 saidJust end under-age night. Problem solved.


    That's what I told them but to them its about community and having a place for young LGBT'ers to meet, make friends, and feel like they belong.


    That's what youth centers are for. Not bars. Bars are for partying and having a good drink.

    I think your friends must be gluttons for trouble.