Ronald Reagan at 100 - what a contrast to today

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 05, 2011 9:28 PM GMT
    Wall Street Journal Opinion Section, February 5, 2011
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703652104576122571039415798.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_BelowLEFTSecond
    Ronald Reagan at 100 - Being a good man helped him become a great one. By Peggy Noonan

    At the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library, in the foothills of the Santa Susana Mountain Range where old Hollywood directors shot Westerns, they will mark Sunday's centenary of Reagan's birth with events and speeches geared toward Monday's opening of a rethought and renovated museum aimed at making his presidency more accessible to scholars and vividly available to the public. Fifty percent of the artifacts, officials note, have never been shown before—essays and short stories Reagan wrote in high school and college, the suit he wore the day he was shot, the condolence book signed by world leaders at his funeral. (Margaret Thatcher: "Well done, Thou good and faithful servant.")
    ....
    His most underestimated political achievement? In the spring of 1981 the Professional Air Traffic Controllers Organization called an illegal strike. It was early in Reagan's presidency. He'd been a union president. He didn't want to come across as an anti-union Republican. And Patco had been one of the few unions to support him in 1980. But the strike was illegal. He would not accept it. He gave them a grace period, two days, to come back. If they didn't, they'd be fired. They didn't believe him. Most didn't come back. So he fired them. It broke the union. Federal workers got the system back up.

    The Soviet Union, and others, were watching. They thought: This guy means business. It had deeply positive implications for U.S. foreign policy. But here's the thing: Reagan didn't know that would happen, didn't know the bounty he'd reap. He was just trying to do what was right. ...
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 05, 2011 9:54 PM GMT
    Peggy Noonan is deeply delusional. Here's Reagan's actual record:

    1. Reagan was a serial tax raiser. As governor of California, Reagan “signed into law the largest tax increase in the history of any state up till then.” Meanwhile, state spending nearly doubled. As president, Reagan “raised taxes in seven of his eight years in office,” including four times in just two years. As former GOP Senator Alan Simpson, who called Reagan “a dear friend,” told NPR, “Ronald Reagan raised taxes 11 times in his administration — I was there.” “Reagan was never afraid to raise taxes,” said historian Douglas Brinkley, who edited Reagan’s memoir. Reagan the anti-tax zealot is “false mythology,” Brinkley said.

    2. Reagan nearly tripled the federal budget deficit. During the Reagan years, the debt increased to nearly $3 trillion, “roughly three times as much as the first 80 years of the century had done altogether.” Reagan enacted a major tax cut his first year in office and government revenue dropped off precipitously. Despite the conservative myth that tax cuts somehow increase revenue, the government went deeper into debt and Reagan had to raise taxes just a year after he enacted his tax cut. Despite ten more tax hikes on everything from gasoline to corporate income, Reagan was never able to get the deficit under control.

    3. Unemployment soared after Reagan’s 1981 tax cuts. Unemployment jumped to 10.8 percent after Reagan enacted his much-touted tax cut, and it took years for the rate to get back down to its previous level. Meanwhile, income inequality exploded. Despite the myth that Reagan presided over an era of unmatched economic boom for all Americans, Reagan disproportionately taxed the poor and middle class, but the economic growth of the 1980′s did little help them. “Since 1980, median household income has risen only 30 percent, adjusted for inflation, while average incomes at the top have tripled or quadrupled,” the New York Times’ David Leonhardt noted.

    4. Reagan grew the size of the federal government tremendously. Reagan promised “to move boldly, decisively, and quickly to control the runaway growth of federal spending,” but federal spending “ballooned” under Reagan. He bailed out Social Security in 1983 after attempting to privatize it, and set up a progressive taxation system to keep it funded into the future. He promised to cut government agencies like the Department of Energy and Education but ended up adding one of the largest — the Department of Veterans’ Affairs, which today has a budget of nearly $90 billion and close to 300,000 employees. He also hiked defense spending by over $100 billion a year to a level not seen since the height of the Vietnam war.

    5. Reagan did little to fight a woman’s right to chose. As governor of California in 1967, Reagan signed a bill to liberalize the state’s abortion laws that “resulted in more than a million abortions.” When Reagan ran for president, he advocated a constitutional amendment that would have prohibited all abortions except when necessary to save the life of the mother, but once in office, he “never seriously pursued” curbing choice.

    6. Reagan was a “bellicose peacenik.” He wrote in his memoirs that “[m]y dream…became a world free of nuclear weapons.” “This vision stemmed from the president’s belief that the biblical account of Armageddon prophesied nuclear war — and that apocalypse could be averted if everyone, especially the Soviets, eliminated nuclear weapons,” the Washington Monthly noted. And Reagan’s military buildup was meant to crush the Soviet Union, but “also to put the United States in a stronger position from which to establish effective arms control” for the the entire world — a vision acted out by Regean’s vice president, George H.W. Bush, when he became president.

    7. Reagan gave amnesty to 3 million undocumented immigrants. Reagan signed into law a bill that made any immigrant who had entered the country before 1982 eligible for amnesty. The bill was sold as a crackdown, but its tough sanctions on employers who hired undocumented immigrants were removed before final passage. The bill helped 3 million people and millions more family members gain American residency. It has since become a source of major embarrassment for conservatives.

    8. Reagan illegally funneled weapons to Iran. Reagan and other senior U.S. officials secretly sold arms to officials in Iran, which was subject to a an arms embargo at the time, in exchange for American hostages. Some funds from the illegal arms sales also went to fund anti-Communist rebels in Nicaragua — something Congress had already prohibited the administration from doing. When the deals went public, the Iran-Contra Affair, as it came to be know, was an enormous political scandal that forced several senior administration officials to resign.

    9. Reagan vetoed a comprehensive anti-Apartheid act. which placed sanctions on South Africa and cut off all American trade with the country. Reagan’s veto was overridden by the Republican-controlled Senate. Reagan responded by saying “I deeply regret that Congress has seen fit to override my veto,” saying that the law “will not solve the serious problems that plague that country.”

    10. Reagan helped create the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden. Reagan fought a proxy war with the Soviet Union by training, arming, equipping, and funding Islamist mujahidin fighters in Afghanistan. Reagan funneled billions of dollars, along with top-secret intelligence and sophisticated weaponry to these fighters through the Pakistani intelligence service. The Talbian and Osama Bin Laden — a prominent mujahidin commander — emerged from these mujahidin groups Reagan helped create, and U.S. policy towards Pakistan remains strained because of the intelligence services’ close relations to these fighters. In fact, Reagan’s decision to continue the proxy war after the Soviets were willing to retreat played a direct role in Bin Laden’s ascendency.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 05, 2011 11:35 PM GMT
    Christian73 saidPeggy Noonan is deeply delusional.
    Not always.. sometimes she has clear thoughts..

    During the 2008 presidential campaign, Noonan wrote about Sarah Palin's vice presidential candidacy in the Wall Street Journal. In one opinion piece, Noonan expressed her view that Palin did not demonstrate "the tools, the equipment, the knowledge or the philosophical grounding one hopes for, and expects, in a holder of high office," concluding that Palin's candidacy marked a "vulgarization in American Politics" that is "no good... for conservatism... [or] the country." Such commentary resulted in a backlash from conservatives.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 06, 2011 12:46 AM GMT
    GREAT POINTS ABOVE TO COUNTER THIS REAGAN IS GOD TO THE REPUBLICANS MENTALITY.



    You left one major thing out though !!!


    HOW DID REAGAN COME TO POWER ??


    BUSH NUMBER 1 USED HIS PRESTIGE WITH THE CIA TO CREATE THE OCTOBER SURPRISE !!! He worked it out with the Iranians for a rather large fee to hold the hostages for long enough for Reagan and Bush to get elected. Take a read of the research and documentation of Robert Perry on this subject, and how Lee Hamilton covered it all up in part with Clintons help. Just do a little google searching and there's one hell of a lot of crooked bullshit the Republicans "GOD" performed.

    Then of course there is the last several years of Reagans "leadership" run by his main man Regan and wife's "star gazing". God how damn rediculous that Americans are sold so much bullshit rather than knowing the truth about their leaders.

    One other very bad thing about Reagan is he was the instigator of the demise of the middle class, Thanks Reagan !!!! you began the greatest transfer of wealth upwards to the few in the history of the USA. Wonderful how well Propaganda works on the sheeple isn't it !!!!! Now he's the Republican version of "GOD", what bullshit !!! What utter bullshit !!!!
  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Feb 06, 2011 1:00 AM GMT
    It is a contrast... we have a President who is fully in control of his faculties
    and not one who was on the fade out.

    icon_neutral.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 06, 2011 1:05 AM GMT
    HndsmKansan saidIt is a contrast... we have a President who is fully in control of his faculties
    and not one who was on the fade out.

    icon_neutral.gif

    The other contrast is one was a direct-talking, no nonsense guy. The other a word parser, fingers crossed behind his back, never met the truth - earmarks, keeping your current health plan, no tax increase of any type under 250K.

    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/515/no-family-making-less-250000-will-see-any-form-tax/
    "I can make a firm pledge. Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes."

    Then later he tried to squirm his way out by saying he meant no new income taxes.
  • 1974Warrior

    Posts: 90

    Feb 06, 2011 1:09 AM GMT
    The best president so far in my life time.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 06, 2011 1:47 AM GMT
    socalfitness said
    HndsmKansan saidIt is a contrast... we have a President who is fully in control of his faculties
    and not one who was on the fade out.

    icon_neutral.gif

    The other contrast is one was a direct-talking, no nonsense guy. The other a word parser, fingers crossed behind his back, never met the truth - earmarks, keeping your current health plan, no tax increase of any type under 250K.

    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/515/no-family-making-less-250000-will-see-any-form-tax/
    "I can make a firm pledge. Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes."

    Then later he tried to squirm his way out by saying he meant no new income taxes.


    That's all you got? You do realize that if Reagan tried to run today he wouldn't make it past the primaries due to the Tea Party influence?
  • creature

    Posts: 5197

    Feb 06, 2011 2:01 AM GMT
    I know there's been a lot of talk about Reagan recently because of his 100th birthday. But even before, republicans kept calling up his name. They may not realize this, but it's quite telling that they have no strong model candidate for the present, and have to rely on a past figure. If you continue put yourself in someone's shadow, you'll never have the spotlight.

    Once again, just like their reluctance to address the economy, Republicans are setting themselves up for failure come next election. Muchos gracias.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 06, 2011 2:17 AM GMT
    creature saidI know there's been a lot of talk about Reagan recently because of his 100th birthday. But even before, republicans kept calling up his name. They may not realize this, but it's quite telling that they have no strong model candidate for the present, and have to rely on a past figure. If you continue put yourself in someone's shadow, you'll never have the spotlight.

    Once again, just like their reluctance to address the economy, Republicans are setting themselves up for failure come next election. Muchos gracias.

    Don't count on it. Remembering a past figure takes nothing away from the current candidates. While we cannot become overconfident, this time the incumbent will not be able to run on hope and change fluff, and the media will no longer be able to cover up his performance. Most of the current candidates would have a field day tearing him up in a debate, where he will have to perform without teleprompters.
  • rnch

    Posts: 11524

    Feb 06, 2011 2:26 AM GMT
    socalfitness said
    creature saidI know there's been a lot of talk about Reagan recently because of his 100th birthday. But even before, republicans kept calling up his name. They may not realize this, but it's quite telling that they have no strong model candidate for the present, and have to rely on a past figure. If you continue put yourself in someone's shadow, you'll never have the spotlight.

    Once again, just like their reluctance to address the economy, Republicans are setting themselves up for failure come next election. Muchos gracias.

    Don't count on it. Remembering a past figure takes nothing away from the current candidates...


    who would the leading GOP Presidential candidates be?
  • creature

    Posts: 5197

    Feb 06, 2011 2:36 AM GMT
    socalfitness,

    But it's more than just echoing Reagan's name, it's an attempt to go back. We can never go back. The world is changing. We cannot go back to the time of Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, etc. However, all I hear from the Republicans is an attempt to block out current events and forcefully submerge the country into a world that is long gone.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 06, 2011 2:51 AM GMT
    socalfitness said
    creature saidI know there's been a lot of talk about Reagan recently because of his 100th birthday. But even before, republicans kept calling up his name. They may not realize this, but it's quite telling that they have no strong model candidate for the present, and have to rely on a past figure. If you continue put yourself in someone's shadow, you'll never have the spotlight.

    Once again, just like their reluctance to address the economy, Republicans are setting themselves up for failure come next election. Muchos gracias.

    Don't count on it. Remembering a past figure takes nothing away from the current candidates. While we cannot become overconfident, this time the incumbent will not be able to run on hope and change fluff, and the media will no longer be able to cover up his performance. Most of the current candidates would have a field day tearing him up in a debate, where he will have to perform without teleprompters.




    YAH BUDDY !!!!! We're all looking forward to this for sure !!!


    Romney !!! A mormon and that on its own bugs the hell out of the Baggers, then of course there's the little issue with the Health Care Bill that Romney Passed while he was Governor, This guy has these strikes against him and he'll not beat Obama's speaking skills,

    Next you've got Huckabee, he of course has a free platform on False News, but that cannot save him, from his problem with letting free someone who ended up killing several police officers, this and the fact that he's a Fundamentalist preacher, that is not Presidential stock and we definately don't need his brand of religion mixing in government

    Palin is a candidate wannabe, whose teleprompter snark is the extent of her intelligence, and a sign of her bent toward a typical high school girls paybacks in tweets, or facebook posts, against anyone who tells the truth about her. LOL !!!! Yes the queen of mean is anything but Presidential Material even if she does have a free platform on False News and a Bagger following.


    Who else ya got there SoCal, Gingrich ??? Now there's a fine mouthpiece, with a moral record the Baggers will be proud to back eh !!!! LOL

    Yessireee !!!! you've got quite a lineup for the repubs !!!


    They'll anyone of them make Reagan the God of Republicans Past Proud !!!
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19138

    Feb 06, 2011 4:32 AM GMT
    rnch said

    who would the leading GOP Presidential candidates be?



    Probably Mitt Romney
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 06, 2011 4:34 AM GMT
    creature saidsocalfitness,

    But it's more than just echoing Reagan's name, it's an attempt to go back. We can never go back. The world is changing. We cannot go back to the time of Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, etc. However, all I hear from the Republicans is an attempt to block out current events and forcefully submerge the country into a world that is long gone.

    You're not listening to the new breed in Congress.
  • musclmed

    Posts: 3284

    Feb 06, 2011 6:39 AM GMT
    Christian73 saidPeggy Noonan is deeply delusional. Here's Reagan's actual record:

    1. Reagan was a serial tax raiser. As governor of California, Reagan “signed into law the largest tax increase in the history of any state up till then.” Meanwhile, state spending nearly doubled. As president, Reagan “raised taxes in seven of his eight years in office,” including four times in just two years. As former GOP Senator Alan Simpson, who called Reagan “a dear friend,” told NPR, “Ronald Reagan raised taxes 11 times in his administration — I was there.” “Reagan was never afraid to raise taxes,” said historian Douglas Brinkley, who edited Reagan’s memoir. Reagan the anti-tax zealot is “false mythology,” Brinkley said.

    2. Reagan nearly tripled the federal budget deficit. During the Reagan years, the debt increased to nearly $3 trillion, “roughly three times as much as the first 80 years of the century had done altogether.” Reagan enacted a major tax cut his first year in office and government revenue dropped off precipitously. Despite the conservative myth that tax cuts somehow increase revenue, the government went deeper into debt and Reagan had to raise taxes just a year after he enacted his tax cut. Despite ten more tax hikes on everything from gasoline to corporate income, Reagan was never able to get the deficit under control.

    3. Unemployment soared after Reagan’s 1981 tax cuts. Unemployment jumped to 10.8 percent after Reagan enacted his much-touted tax cut, and it took years for the rate to get back down to its previous level. Meanwhile, income inequality exploded. Despite the myth that Reagan presided over an era of unmatched economic boom for all Americans, Reagan disproportionately taxed the poor and middle class, but the economic growth of the 1980′s did little help them. “Since 1980, median household income has risen only 30 percent, adjusted for inflation, while average incomes at the top have tripled or quadrupled,” the New York Times’ David Leonhardt noted.

    4. Reagan grew the size of the federal government tremendously. Reagan promised “to move boldly, decisively, and quickly to control the runaway growth of federal spending,” but federal spending “ballooned” under Reagan. He bailed out Social Security in 1983 after attempting to privatize it, and set up a progressive taxation system to keep it funded into the future. He promised to cut government agencies like the Department of Energy and Education but ended up adding one of the largest — the Department of Veterans’ Affairs, which today has a budget of nearly $90 billion and close to 300,000 employees. He also hiked defense spending by over $100 billion a year to a level not seen since the height of the Vietnam war.

    5. Reagan did little to fight a woman’s right to chose. As governor of California in 1967, Reagan signed a bill to liberalize the state’s abortion laws that “resulted in more than a million abortions.” When Reagan ran for president, he advocated a constitutional amendment that would have prohibited all abortions except when necessary to save the life of the mother, but once in office, he “never seriously pursued” curbing choice.

    6. Reagan was a “bellicose peacenik.” He wrote in his memoirs that “[m]y dream…became a world free of nuclear weapons.” “This vision stemmed from the president’s belief that the biblical account of Armageddon prophesied nuclear war — and that apocalypse could be averted if everyone, especially the Soviets, eliminated nuclear weapons,” the Washington Monthly noted. And Reagan’s military buildup was meant to crush the Soviet Union, but “also to put the United States in a stronger position from which to establish effective arms control” for the the entire world — a vision acted out by Regean’s vice president, George H.W. Bush, when he became president.

    7. Reagan gave amnesty to 3 million undocumented immigrants. Reagan signed into law a bill that made any immigrant who had entered the country before 1982 eligible for amnesty. The bill was sold as a crackdown, but its tough sanctions on employers who hired undocumented immigrants were removed before final passage. The bill helped 3 million people and millions more family members gain American residency. It has since become a source of major embarrassment for conservatives.

    8. Reagan illegally funneled weapons to Iran. Reagan and other senior U.S. officials secretly sold arms to officials in Iran, which was subject to a an arms embargo at the time, in exchange for American hostages. Some funds from the illegal arms sales also went to fund anti-Communist rebels in Nicaragua — something Congress had already prohibited the administration from doing. When the deals went public, the Iran-Contra Affair, as it came to be know, was an enormous political scandal that forced several senior administration officials to resign.

    9. Reagan vetoed a comprehensive anti-Apartheid act. which placed sanctions on South Africa and cut off all American trade with the country. Reagan’s veto was overridden by the Republican-controlled Senate. Reagan responded by saying “I deeply regret that Congress has seen fit to override my veto,” saying that the law “will not solve the serious problems that plague that country.”

    10. Reagan helped create the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden. Reagan fought a proxy war with the Soviet Union by training, arming, equipping, and funding Islamist mujahidin fighters in Afghanistan. Reagan funneled billions of dollars, along with top-secret intelligence and sophisticated weaponry to these fighters through the Pakistani intelligence service. The Talbian and Osama Bin Laden — a prominent mujahidin commander — emerged from these mujahidin groups Reagan helped create, and U.S. policy towards Pakistan remains strained because of the intelligence services’ close relations to these fighters. In fact, Reagan’s decision to continue the proxy war after the Soviets were willing to retreat played a direct role in Bin Laden’s ascendency.


    Wow I thought i was having a real dejavu moment. I just read these same talking points somewhere on the AL GORE created internet.

    These sort of display of facts have credence only in the bizarro corners of websites like the daily kos and channels like Democracy now.

    Or the minds of reporters like Sam Donaldson.

    I still give a chuckle on how he would scream down Reagan, but blow kisses at Clinton.

    If it not for Reagan half of the planet would be speaking Russian now and on bread lines.

    your #7 is interesting. I find it interesting you claim its an embarrassment for Conservatives? The amnesty was a concession to the liberals to pass a bill that would end the illegal immigration. A fair and humanitarian attempt to fix a problem. A bipartisan move that unfortunately was a slap in the face.

    All it points out that that certain liberal members just cant be trusted. As they conspired to block funding for enforcement of immigration law. (
    They continue by creating "sanctuary cities" and demonstrate any meaningful laws for immigration ).
    Ironically Sen Ed Kennedy voted against amnesty in 1986, then swung to the other side advocating amnesty for everyone and there 3rd cousin to become a citizen.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 06, 2011 7:23 AM GMT
    The GOP's fixation with Reagan nostalgia is getting old and is a major weakness for the party. The dumbing down of conservative thought (via Fox "news" and conservative radio talk show hosts, etc.) doesn't help either.

    I enjoy reading the thoughts of moderate conservative David Brooks (and to a lesser extent, David Frum). Here is some of their take on the GOP being stuck in the 1980's:





    Can't embed this one



    Finally, for laughs:


  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19138

    Feb 06, 2011 3:23 PM GMT
    Still my favorite Reagan moment -- EVER...It was classic Ronald Reagan humor....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoPu1UIBkBc

  • rnch

    Posts: 11524

    Feb 06, 2011 3:34 PM GMT
    i considered myself a middle-of-the-road "Reagan Republican" until about mid way thru President Reagan's term in office.

    his "trickle down" economic policies, a stupidity that even his vice-president bush called "voodoo economics" and his ignoring of the AIDS issue made me question my alliance to the GOP and it's sitting President.

    the takeover of the GOP by the fanatics in the "Religious Right" forced me to switch my support to the democratic party.

    i truly believe that " I " have not changed; i believe that the republican party has changed.

    icon_sad.gif
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19138

    Feb 06, 2011 4:23 PM GMT
    In my lifetime anyway, Ronald Reagan is the one president that I revered above all others. Just something about him was so immensely likable and endearing, while at the same time he was immensely presidential and represented the USA in such a positive way. I know not everybody liked him, but I don't care, I thought he was awesome.
  • creature

    Posts: 5197

    Feb 06, 2011 4:39 PM GMT
    socalfitness said
    creature saidsocalfitness,

    But it's more than just echoing Reagan's name, it's an attempt to go back. We can never go back. The world is changing. We cannot go back to the time of Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, etc. However, all I hear from the Republicans is an attempt to block out current events and forcefully submerge the country into a world that is long gone.

    You're not listening to the new breed in Congress.


    LMAO. Thanks for the laugh.

    I heard them during the campaign trial, and I'm listening to their rhetoric. I have not heard any collective thoughts coming from this "new breed" to indicate that they can handle the changing times.

    I'm sorry, but when the teabaggers came along, I knew there would be an attempt to go back to those good ol' days where the religious right dominated the political discourse.

    The writing was on the wall during Bush's presidency where those who protested the war were called unpatriotic. Simply because someone does not share a view of what is best for the country, and they're called traitors? It's that sheep mentality that Bush's supporters demonstrated that would follow through to the Tea Party and end up what we're seeing now.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19138

    Feb 06, 2011 4:59 PM GMT
    creature said

    I'm sorry, but when the teabaggers came along, I knew there would be an attempt to go back to those good ol' days where the religious right dominated the political discourse.



    This statement is a glaring example of your lack of understanding about what teabaggers are. They come from all walks of life, ages, colors, sexes, and religious backgrounds. They cannot in any way be classified as "religious right". Granted, that element exists among them, but they are not necessarily guiding the tea party people.
  • creature

    Posts: 5197

    Feb 06, 2011 5:08 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    creature said

    I'm sorry, but when the teabaggers came along, I knew there would be an attempt to go back to those good ol' days where the religious right dominated the political discourse.



    This statement is a glaring example of your lack of understanding about what teabaggers are. They come from all walks of life, ages, colors, sexes, and religious backgrounds. They cannot in any way be classified as "religious right". Granted, that element exists among them, but they are not necessarily guiding the tea party people.


    I got CuriousJockAZ to call 'em "teabaggers." icon_biggrin.gif

    I'm sorry, but I have call it as I see it. The religious right are guiding the tea party. There may be other "concerns," but religion is chief among them. Why don't you pay attention to the tea party-backed candidates. I know I am, and this is exactly what I am seeing.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 06, 2011 5:13 PM GMT
    creature said
    CuriousJockAZ said
    creature said

    I'm sorry, but when the teabaggers came along, I knew there would be an attempt to go back to those good ol' days where the religious right dominated the political discourse.



    This statement is a glaring example of your lack of understanding about what teabaggers are. They come from all walks of life, ages, colors, sexes, and religious backgrounds. They cannot in any way be classified as "religious right". Granted, that element exists among them, but they are not necessarily guiding the tea party people.


    I got CuriousJockAZ to call 'em "teabaggers." icon_biggrin.gif

    I'm sorry, but I have call it as I see it. The religious right are guiding the tea party. There may be other "concerns," but religion is chief among them. Why don't you pay attention to the tea party-backed candidates. I know I am, and this is exactly what I am seeing.

    I'm sure it was an oversight on his part. That term for the tea party is coarse and uncouth, and I think does not reflect well on those who use it. The argument that it was first used by a few supporters is irrelevant.
  • creature

    Posts: 5197

    Feb 06, 2011 5:15 PM GMT
    That's interesting, socalfitness...

    I feel the same way about people who use the term "Obamacare."