Too FAG-ity To Befriend!

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    Feb 06, 2011 2:36 AM GMT
    For more than 2-years I have been friends with this one guy online who is attractive and smart. Well actually, not so smart after today's conversation. He is a high school teacher in his late 20's. His profile says he is white American and he has a predilection for Latinos/Hispanics.

     

    When I initially started talking to him 2-years ago I was interested in him as a possible "boyfriend." He has this rugged yet refined look about him that really piqued my interest. I always felt that he would not be interested in me because like many white guys in Los Angeles, he has a liking for the Hispanic type. You know, the tan skin, dark features, and "Rico suave" personality. Although I am Hispanic I don't quite fit that "stereotype" look. So at any rate... For some time we have carried on intelligent conversations, but tonight was different.

     

    So I logged-on and ran across his profile tonight. Like always we had a good conversation about different subjects. Then at one point in the conversation I said, "Why don't we meet for Starbucks or go to dinner." He replied along the lines of, "I am online looking for friends who can possibly become boyfriends. I look for masculinity in my friends." I was like, "Ok, well if you're calling me effeminate I am totally fine with that, but what does it have to do with being my friend?" That started a whole back and forth about masculinity and femininity and so forth.

     

    He ended up saying, "I have friends who are feminine and I don't have a problem with that." I said, "So then if it is not a problem then why don't we go do something friendly together." He said, "I am not using this site to make friends. I am using this site to make boyfriends." I replied, "A minute ago you said you wanted to make friends who will possibly become your boyfriend." He said, "Right, in other words, I am trying to just find a boyfriend on this site and it all starts with friendship." At this point I was over him. 2-years of conversation with a man who appeared to be smart and attractive became 2-years of wasting my time. He then goes on to say, "I am doing just fine in the friends department so I don't need any new ones. Although talking with you is always very engaging."

     

    Since I didn't care about this guy's opinion anymore I replied with, "Listen... your point is flawed. Friends are not to be measured by their masculinity they are to be defined by their character, actions, and heart. You obviously must have some sort of convoluted definition of what a friend is. To be honest with you even if you wanted to meet me now I wouldn't meet you because you have turned me off on a 'friendly' level." 

     

    Befriending someone because of how masculine or feminine they are is absolutely absurd. I totally understand that maybe you don't want to surround yourself with all feminine guys or all masculine guys, but you should have a balance. Actually, I am no one to say you should have a balance, but it only makes sense that you would. Just because a guy is too feminine doesn't mean you can't have them in your group of friends. Maybe that super fag will one day give you the helping hand you need. I just don't comprehend why someone would exclude being someone's friend because of how gay they are. It only makes me believe that these individuals have some sort of sexual identity issue. Maybe they don't want to be around gayer men because they don't want to be seen as super gay or even worst, fags.

     

    This whole experience gives birth to a new question, "Why is being effeminate such a bad thing?" As a gay guy I sometimes see myself saying, "Whoa, he is too gay." But where did this internal dislike for guys who are girly come from? My mom never told me to hate boys who were girly. The closest thing my mom said to hate boys who are girly is, "Boys don't cry." So I can only point my finger at one other person, YOU! Yes, you reading these words. You're a part of society aren't you? Well society is to blame for this view of effeminate guys. We see men as having the upper hand. They are the bread winners, the butch, the tough, the know it all, and if they were effeminate they would be less than a man. That is probably why my mom said, "Boys don't cry."

     

    What really bothers me is that this view comes between friendships. If you don't want to date a guy who is more masculine than you or more feminine than you then don't, but don't reject a friendship. Going for a cup of coffee with a girly guy is not going to make you girly. Going shooting with a guy is not going to make you any butcher. At the end of the day we are who we are no matter what we do; no matter what activities we take part of we are still going to be the person we are meant to be. If you're scared of what others think of you then you seriously have a problem. The only opinion that should matter is that of your inner circle of friends and family. People in the exterior shouldn't matter.

     

    As humans living in an ever-changing society we need to broaden our horizons. We need to accept others for the qualities they have and stop trying to define them. If you pick and chose your friends based on masculinity or femininity then you're closing yourself off to some great people and friendships. Asides, what is too feminine or too masculine? We all have different definitions for levels of femininity and masculinity. We all have something different to offer - then again that is why god only made one of me and one of you. I personally know that I value my group of friends. I love all of my guy friends, my girlfriends, and girly guy friends. I don't have a problem with befriending a super fag or a butch jock type. I welcome everyone with open arms as they do me because they see my loyal and genuine character as I see theirs. So, if you don't want to be my friend because I am "in your eyes" effeminate or "too pretty," then go ahead, don't be my friend. I wouldn't want to be yours.

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    Feb 06, 2011 2:42 AM GMT
    I think your last two sentences summed it up. No need to be concerned about those who don't show an interest in you. Life is enriched by genuine friendships, where you are free to be yourself, and loved for who you are. Move on to meet people where the feeling is mutual.
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    Feb 06, 2011 2:51 AM GMT
    His loss. I'd be your friend, regardless of how "Fag-ity" you are. You can't be any more faggy than most of the metrosexual "straight" guys around here whom I pick on daily. icon_lol.gif
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    Feb 06, 2011 3:50 AM GMT
    A lot of pain in those words - Sorry Al. If you ever pass through my neck of the woods I'd grab a starbucks with you... unless I could talk you into a beer instead ;-)
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    Feb 06, 2011 3:53 AM GMT
    I try to keep an open mind and accept people as they are. I really don't get gay guys that think other gay guys are "too gay". I'll admit to sometimes cracking up if one of my friends does something really stereotypically gay, though. icon_cool.gif
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    Feb 06, 2011 4:03 AM GMT
    Masculinity is exceedingly subjective. There are those who think that masculinity means having 250 pounds of hard muscle; still others think that a man's level of masculinity is directly proportional to the amount of body hair that he has. I could go on. That's alll bullshit in my book. Personally, I like guys who are naturally masculine--not those hyper-masculine guys that look like Tom of Finland caricatures. You look just fine, and I'm sure you will make for a very nice boyfriend! It's his loss. If you were here, I'd kiss you. By the way, I LOVE your video!
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    Feb 06, 2011 4:06 AM GMT
    I don't get people like that. I have a friend that is very feminine and we get along just fine. I am not sexually attracted to feminine guys but have no problem being friends with them. I would mind being your friend either.
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    Feb 06, 2011 4:13 AM GMT
    DOMINUS said By the way, I LOVE your video!


    Love that video too. So cute. icon_smile.gif

    Reminds me a little of the first year after my partner and me moved in together. We tended to spend an entire day in bed during the weekends. That was back when we lived in a condo and before a house with yardwork and upkeep etc. icon_confused.gif
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    Feb 06, 2011 4:17 AM GMT
    I'm always looking for friends- but they're never looking for me. icon_cry.gif
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    Feb 06, 2011 4:21 AM GMT
    Forget that mess! *flips hair*
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    Feb 06, 2011 4:22 AM GMT
    Really great post.

    He lost a great, smart, well rounded friend and potential BF. People who have a problem with guys who aren't masculine enough really have a problem with themselves. Maybe one day he'll learn, his loss until then.

    If he's a member here it would be good if he saw this. It might change his perspective that at then end of the day we're all just human and more alike than we are different.
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    Feb 06, 2011 4:24 AM GMT
    If someone doesn't like you for a superficial reason like that, you don't need him. His loss. You're cute, someone will come around icon_smile.gif
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    Feb 06, 2011 4:32 AM GMT
    Oh what a douche! icon_confused.gif

    And this guy you're talking too is not very articulate..he sounds so confused.

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    Feb 06, 2011 4:46 AM GMT
    The masc/fem topic is probably one of the most posted on this site.

    My very personal and biased summary of hundreds of thousands of keystrokes expended on this subject over the years:

    Fear / dislike / disapproval / discomfort with male effeminacy and its correlated symptoms of over-concern for masc / manly / mans-manliness appears in one type of guy and one type of guy only:

    The guy who is insecure about his own masculinity.

    You don't need insecure guys in your life. Move on.




    As Craig Ferguson is fond of saying: "I look forward to your letters."

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    Feb 06, 2011 4:47 AM GMT
    That was a very insightful relay you made based on that experience. At least you know better now something that society deals with on so many levels.
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    Feb 06, 2011 4:49 AM GMT
    Everyone has their own preferences with what they want in friends and boyfriends. I would never be mean or unkind to a feminine guy, but the truth is I have never had any close friends or dated any guys who were femmy where you hang out and do stuff together because it's going to be pretty hard to find things in common because their interests are so different from my own and we are never going to click even as friends and much less a boy friend. So don't be so hard on the guy. He's just telling it like it is. From your chats together, he probably can see that both of you just are not going to click with each other even as just friends and probably much less as boyfriends. And since he is mainly looking for a boyfriend, there has to be at least some common feeling and interests or it's never going to work. So rather than wasting both your time and his, he's just telling it like it is and being honest with you, which is a good characteristic of anyone.

    I'm sure, if he meets you in the store, he will be nice and civil to you and may even chat with you there for quite awhile because he has obviusly enjoyed conversations with you, but he's just not interested in being close friends with you and hanging with you, but that doesn't make him a bad person.

    You are just not his type for a friend or a boyfriend and like it or not, that's just the way it is. Everyone has to find people with whom they click with to even be friends. In the first place, you can only have so many friends that you are going to hang around with and converse with and keep in contact with on a regular basis because there simply isn't enough hours in a day to do this with everyone you meet. It physically impossible.

    I'm never rude with guys who are not my friends unless they have been rude to me first. But to think that a guy has to friends with every type of guy and personality is not being realistic. WE ALL have our personal preferences on what we like and those are going to be the guys whom we are going to form friendships with first and then hopefully and eventually that one boyfriend whom we love more than anyone else.

    I feel very fortunate to have found that guy. Do either one of us want to get married? No, that's just not our thing. We are happy with things just the way they are. Marriage licences are just another scam of the government to take your money and people are fools to let them. My boyfriend was already in the hospital once with pnumonia and I had no problem here in Milwaukee visiting him because he put me on his visitation list and as long as I was on his list of people who could see him, the hospital welcomed me at any time and they all knew I was gay and his boyfriend.

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    Feb 06, 2011 4:51 AM GMT
    It sounds like this guy came out with a stupid excuse to get rid of you because he realized there was potential for a REAL relationship. He's probably insecure about his own masculinity and feels that he'll be "obvious" if he's with anyone who is (in his eyes) too feminine.
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    Feb 06, 2011 4:53 AM GMT
    "Tax the stupid people!" - Eddie Monsoonicon_wink.gif
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    Feb 06, 2011 4:54 AM GMT
    I had one dude call me a femme when I was absolutely skunked at a house party once. I spit my dip in his face and he started crying.
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    I have my moments```
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    Feb 06, 2011 4:57 AM GMT
    I don't know who this guy is but he's an idiot in more ways than one. For that comment and for no hooking up with you because I'd take you in a heartbeat
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    Feb 06, 2011 5:05 AM GMT
    These guys who have like 300 friends is so funny. There's no way that you can be REAL FRIENDS with 300 guys. lol If they are real friends, you hang out with them or keep in contact with them on a regular basis and you know what's happening in their life at all times. A friend is more than just someone you say happy birthday to and send a christmas greeting once a year. lol
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    Feb 06, 2011 5:12 AM GMT
    I don't believe this guy was in the wrong. I know for myself I'll have guys interested in a relationship and I'll simply tell them that they're not my type. They'll then propose that we just be friends and that's always a trap. I have many friends, and I care about them dearly for different reasons, the fact of the matter is that as far as friends go, my life is in perfect harmony, I don't need anymore. "Well aren't you turning yourself off to different possibilities?" some might say, yes I might be, but this is my decision to make, no one else's. "Well you're being rude" no, you're wrong, I'm simply telling someone I don't care to take my precious time and resources to forge a friendship with them because for whatever reason I don't find it enriching or beneficial to my life. If they take offense to that or find that wrong, they need to stop being selfish and realize not everyone has to be your friend. Perhaps in first grade that rule applies but as long as we're being civil and respectful of each other here in the real world, there's no problem with someone saying they don't want to be your friend.

    As far as this guy preferring someone masculine, that's a-okay. Some like chocolate, some like vanilla, are you going to tell him what he's attracted to is wrong? He never said you were less of a person, nor did he say anything bad about being feminine, he simply said that he's not attracted to it. I'm pale, I know people that find that repulsive, I also know people that find it uber sexy (for some reason that escapes me). I don't go around telling people who don't find me attractive that they are flawed and have issues, because they aren't and they don't. They like what they like the same way I like what I like.

    I'm sorry you felt hurt by this guy's reaction but it seems like ultimately you're mad that A: someone didn't want to be your friend and, B: someone didn't find you attractive. There are guys out there who are attracted to feminine qualities in other guys, this teacher just isn't.
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    Feb 06, 2011 5:15 AM GMT
    that guy sounds like a doo doo head
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    Feb 06, 2011 5:18 AM GMT
    I have had guys who wanted to make me their friend and they didn't even know my first name. icon_sad.gif You aren't a very good friend, if you don't know his name. lol. Real friends know what's happening in your life at all times and care about everything that happens to you. The only difference between friends and boyfriends is if you have a boyfriend, you more than likely are not having sex with your other friends. Your boyfriend is your best friend, the one you love more than anyone else and whom you are sexually joined together with and his needs and concerns are more imporatant to you than anyone else. That doesn't mean you can't have other friends, but all other friends are to take a secondary role to your boyfriend and are not to get in the way of your relationship with your boyfriend.
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    Feb 06, 2011 5:21 AM GMT
    AJeJr88 saidI don't believe this guy was in the wrong. I know for myself I'll have guys interested in a relationship and I'll simply tell them that they're not my type. They'll then propose that we just be friends and that's always a trap. I have many friends, and I care about them dearly for different reasons, the fact of the matter is that as far as friends go, my life is in perfect harmony, I don't need anymore. "Well aren't you turning yourself off to different possibilities?" some might say, yes I might be, but this is my decision to make, no one else's. "Well you're being rude" no, you're wrong, I'm simply telling someone I don't care to take my precious time and resources to forge a friendship with them because for whatever reason I don't find it enriching or beneficial to my life. If they take offense to that or find that wrong, they need to stop being selfish and realize not everyone has to be your friend. Perhaps in first grade that rule applies but as long as we're being civil and respectful of each other here in the real world, there's no problem with someone saying they don't want to be your friend.

    As far as this guy preferring someone masculine, that's a-okay. Some like chocolate, some like vanilla, are you going to tell him what he's attracted to is wrong? He never said you were less of a person, nor did he say anything bad about being feminine, he simply said that he's not attracted to it. I'm pale, I know people that find that repulsive, I also know people that find it uber sexy (for some reason that escapes me). I don't go around telling people who don't find me attractive that they are flawed and have issues, because they aren't and they don't. They like what they like the same way I like what I like.

    I'm sorry you felt hurt by this guy's reaction but it seems like ultimately you're mad that A: someone didn't want to be your friend and, B: someone didn't find you attractive. There are guys out there who are attracted to feminine qualities in other guys, this teacher just isn't.


    You couldn't have said it any better. Well said!