Baby Step in the Right Direction Within In the Republican Party

  • metta

    Posts: 39119

    Feb 11, 2011 2:30 AM GMT

    Gay conservative group tests GOP unity at conference


    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41517682/ns/politics-more_politics/
  • metta

    Posts: 39119

    Feb 11, 2011 8:23 PM GMT
    White Supremacists Exhibit at CPAC

    http://www.advocate.com/News/Daily_News/2011/02/11/White_Supremacists_Exhibit_at_CPAC/
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 11, 2011 8:44 PM GMT
    lol, that's not a white supremacist exhibit. The title is a lie.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 11, 2011 11:04 PM GMT
    I wouldn't get my hopes up. CPAC organizers today started distancing themselves from GOProud in the media. I suspect that they will build on this to exclude their participation next year.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 11, 2011 11:06 PM GMT
    mocktwinkie saidlol, that's not a white supremacist exhibit. The title is a lie.


    Mock - If you read their website, they most certainly are a white supremacist organization.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 12, 2011 1:31 AM GMT
    Christian73 said
    mocktwinkie saidlol, that's not a white supremacist exhibit. The title is a lie.


    Mock - If you read their website, they most certainly are a white supremacist organization.


    I read it, they are most certainly not even if they are deemed misguided. They advocate their idea of cultural preservation, that's it. Everyone is entitled to that as long as they don't incite hate and or violence against another group.
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Feb 12, 2011 11:14 AM GMT
    mocktwinkie saidlol, that's not a white supremacist exhibit. The title is a lie.


    From Southern Poverty Law Center's Hate Watch
    2/26/09

    ‘Right-Wing Youth’ Group Debuts At CPAC
    One of the group’s founders, Marcus Epstein, is a frequent contributor to the white nationalist hate website VDARE.com.
    Epstein is also the head of the Robert A. Taft Club, a Washington, D.C., group whose events regularly feature prominent academic racists like Jared Taylor, the editor of the overtly white supremacist journal American Renaissance.
    Another Youth for Western Civilization founder, Kevin DeAnna, has posted several times in recent years to the Spartan Spectator
    the website of the Michigan State University chapter of Young Americans for Freedom, or MSU-YAF
    Southern Poverty Law Center identified MSU-YAF as a hate group after it organized a “Catch an Illegal Alien Day” game, sponsored a “Koran desecration contest,” jokingly threatened to distribute small-pox infected blankets to Native American students, posted “Gays spread AIDS” fliers, called Latino students and faculty members “savages,” and invited Nick Griffin, the chairman of the neofascist British National Party, to speak on the MSU campus.


    On the notion that the wave of immigrants during the beginning of the 20th cent. had not changed the face of America
    “But anyone who has watched machine politics in action in cities like B. Hussein Obama’s Chicago, or knows anything about the Mafia, or is at all familiar with how largely Jewish intellectual elites have utterly transformed American social and political discourse, knows that is nonsense.”


    icon_neutral.gif
  • creature

    Posts: 5197

    Feb 12, 2011 12:54 PM GMT
    nice one, GQjock.

    I cannot tell whether mocktwinkie is honestly ignorant, or if he's just playing devil's advocate. White supremacy isn't about using hate speech, or inciting violence. It means exactly what the term says, the supremacy of whites, or "white culture."
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 12, 2011 2:22 PM GMT
    Christian73 said
    mocktwinkie saidlol, that's not a white supremacist exhibit. The title is a lie.


    Mock - If you read their website, they most certainly are a white supremacist organization.


    So being against multiculturalism and mass immigration makes you a white supremacist? I'm against the first, for the second - but I don't view those who are against mass immigration (which includes many on the left as well) as being racist. The use of the label racist is viewed as an ugly term used to slur those who disagree with either Obama or certain policies - so often in fact, that it's lost utility.

    creature - did you even bother to read the website?
    http://www.westernyouth.org/about-us/our-mission/

    Certainly this concern over western culture is a silly one - though their two primary aims seem to be legitimate ones but one could hardly infer they are racist because of it.

    I don't have time to factcheck SPLC but they have played fast and loose with the facts in the past. Are they a white supremacist organization? Not based on their website, and 'extraordinary claims, requires extraordinary evidence' and that threshold has not been met.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 12, 2011 11:20 PM GMT
    riddler78 said
    Christian73 said
    mocktwinkie saidlol, that's not a white supremacist exhibit. The title is a lie.


    Mock - If you read their website, they most certainly are a white supremacist organization.


    So being against multiculturalism and mass immigration makes you a white supremacist? I'm against the first, for the second - but I don't view those who are against mass immigration (which includes many on the left as well) as being racist.



    "Western culture is built on the foundation of the Greco-Roman, Christian, and indigenous folk traditions that created the social norms, values, practices, and high culture of Europe and those places settled predominantly by the peoples from that area."

    This is from their website. I say you should go to one of their meetings. Report back and let us know how it goes especially since you are Greco-Roman, Christian, and European.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 13, 2011 2:23 AM GMT
    riddler78 said
    Christian73 said
    mocktwinkie saidlol, that's not a white supremacist exhibit. The title is a lie.


    Mock - If you read their website, they most certainly are a white supremacist organization.


    So being against multiculturalism and mass immigration makes you a white supremacist? I'm against the first, for the second - but I don't view those who are against mass immigration (which includes many on the left as well) as being racist. The use of the label racist is viewed as an ugly term used to slur those who disagree with either Obama or certain policies - so often in fact, that it's lost utility.

    creature - did you even bother to read the website?
    http://www.westernyouth.org/about-us/our-mission/

    Certainly this concern over western culture is a silly one - though their two primary aims seem to be legitimate ones but one could hardly infer they are racist because of it.

    I don't have time to factcheck SPLC but they have played fast and loose with the facts in the past. Are they a white supremacist organization? Not based on their website, and 'extraordinary claims, requires extraordinary evidence' and that threshold has not been met.


    Really? Is this what you want to argue?

    I did read their website. and they want to preserve Western Culture like the Family Research Council wants to preserve traditional marriage.

    And to use Obama, who has been subjected to enormous animosity based on his race (birtherism is a dog whistle for there's a scary black guy in the White House), is just silly. If you're happy being the person of color that the white guys like, good for you. Most of the POC folks I know want actual justice and part of that is having their cultures and histories held in the same esteem as Western European (re: white!) culture.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 13, 2011 2:33 AM GMT
    Christian73 said
    riddler78 said
    Christian73 said
    mocktwinkie saidlol, that's not a white supremacist exhibit. The title is a lie.


    Mock - If you read their website, they most certainly are a white supremacist organization.




    creature - did you even bother to read the website?
    http://www.westernyouth.org/about-us/our-mission/

    Certainly this concern over western culture is a silly one - though their two primary aims seem to be legitimate ones but one could hardly infer they are racist because of it.

    I don't have time to factcheck SPLC but they have played fast and loose with the facts in the past. Are they a white supremacist organization? Not based on their website, and 'extraordinary claims, requires extraordinary evidence' and that threshold has not been met.


    Really? Is this what you want to argue?

    I did read their website. and they want to preserve Western Culture like the Family Research Council wants to preserve traditional marriage.

    And to use Obama, who has been subjected to enormous animosity based on his race (birtherism is a dog whistle for there's a scary black guy in the White House), is just silly. If you're happy being the person of color that the white guys like, good for you. Most of the POC folks I know want actual justice and part of that is having their cultures and histories held in the same esteem as Western European (re: white!) culture.


    Thank you. That is exactly what I was getting it.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 13, 2011 2:45 AM GMT
    Balljunkie said
    Christian73 said
    riddler78 said
    Christian73 said
    mocktwinkie saidlol, that's not a white supremacist exhibit. The title is a lie.


    Mock - If you read their website, they most certainly are a white supremacist organization.




    creature - did you even bother to read the website?
    http://www.westernyouth.org/about-us/our-mission/

    Certainly this concern over western culture is a silly one - though their two primary aims seem to be legitimate ones but one could hardly infer they are racist because of it.

    I don't have time to factcheck SPLC but they have played fast and loose with the facts in the past. Are they a white supremacist organization? Not based on their website, and 'extraordinary claims, requires extraordinary evidence' and that threshold has not been met.


    Really? Is this what you want to argue?

    I did read their website. and they want to preserve Western Culture like the Family Research Council wants to preserve traditional marriage.

    And to use Obama, who has been subjected to enormous animosity based on his race (birtherism is a dog whistle for there's a scary black guy in the White House), is just silly. If you're happy being the person of color that the white guys like, good for you. Most of the POC folks I know want actual justice and part of that is having their cultures and histories held in the same esteem as Western European (re: white!) culture.


    Thank you. That is exactly what I was getting it.


    Sadly, all too typical these days. Dare to disagree and you're called racist, or if you're coloured like Colin Powell, an Uncle Tom. How petty and small minded of you. And frankly a little sad that you would rather resort to vicious personal attacks than defend ideas which leads me to wonder who the true bigots are here.

    The organization you've cited may be racist - but you've shown no evidence for it. You'd rather casually parrot labels like "white supremacist" or racist because you disagree with their ideas. You should be ashamed but that would require humility.

    Personally, I think there's been far too much apologism for Western influence - and while I believe that there are a number of ideas that the West has gotten to first - like ideas on liberty, populism and democracy, I don't see them as uniquely Western - simply good ideas. Multiculturalism is however a bad one - the strength of a culture rests on the strength of its ideas and values. To believe that they should all be treated equally is in a word, naive.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 13, 2011 3:44 AM GMT
    I clearly highlighted what the website was advocating. You were the one that brought up white supremacist and racism. I simply wrote that you should go to one of their meetings and report back.

    As for Colin Powell, I have mad respect for him. I would not describe him as an Uncle Tom.

    By the way, I read their website. One of their frequently asked questions was: are you racist? They said that they "are not".

    Personally, I think there's been far too much apologism for Western influence - and while I believe that there are a number of ideas that the West has gotten to first - like ideas on liberty, populism and democracy, I don't see them as uniquely Western - simply good ideas.

    You should write them, and send them this exact quote. I'd be interested in seeing what they have to say since it basically goes against what they stand for.

    Multiculturalism is however a bad one - the strength of a culture rests on the strength of its ideas and values. To believe that they should all be treated equally is in a word, naive.

    Every culture has borrowed something from another culture. Like you just said about those ideas that the West got first, should be respected and attributed to Western Civilization. Such as other thoughts and values are borrowed, they should be respected and homage should be paid.

  • creature

    Posts: 5197

    Feb 13, 2011 3:51 AM GMT
    Riddler,

    Nobody is knocking Western ideals and any of the positive influences that have come from Europe. What we are trying to get you to understand is that the organization is a thinly veiled one for white supremacy.

    You even admit the group's concern is silly. That should have been a clue right there. And when you ask the question, "Why is a group that is strongly concerned about the west appearing at a conservative convention," a lightbulb should have flashed.

    Instead of using the word race, which they know will bring some unwanted attention, they are using "culture" as a means to escape the racist label.

    Spend some time in Stormfront, you will learn a thing or two of how such people are adapting to the current social/political climate. The KKK is seen as an outdated symbol. Neo-nazis and organizations with "aryan" are seen as overtly racist and associated with violence. But an organization like the one we are discussing is a soft approach to recruiting others who do share like-minded supremacist views, but do not want the label.