48% Back GOP Governor in Wisconsin Spat, 38% Side With Unions

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    Feb 22, 2011 6:11 AM GMT
    http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_politics/february_2011/48_back_gop_governor_in_wisconsin_spat_38_side_with_unions

    A sizable number of voters are following new Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker’s showdown with unionized public employees in his state, and nearly half side with the governor.

    A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 48% of Likely U.S. Voters agree more with the Republican governor in his dispute with union workers. Thirty-eight percent (38%) agree more with the unionized public employees, while 14% are undecided. (To see survey question wording, click here.)

    In an effort to close the state’s sizable budget deficit, Walker is proposing to eliminate collective bargaining for public employees including teachers on everything but wage issues. He is excluding public safety workers such as policemen and firemen from his plan.

    Thirty-eight percent (38%) of voters think teachers, firemen and policemen should be allowed to go on strike, but 49% disagree and believe they should not have that right. Thirteen percent (13%) are not sure.
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    Feb 22, 2011 7:09 AM GMT
    Several thoughts.

    First, it wouldn't greatly surprise to find a lot of support for the governor. Times are tough and people want a scapegoat. Unions make a good scapegoat.

    Second, there's a huge amount of money in the campaign against them.

    Third, there are some questions about this particular poll.

    http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/02/21/rasmussen-poll-on-wisconsin-dispute-may-be-biased/?partner=rss&emc=rss

    Fourth, this poll was of likely voters. Or the people who Rasumussen decided were likely voters. I don't get this. If this was a poll about an upcoming election, then it makes sense to report the results of "likely voters." I'd be interested in seeing the results including the people deemed by Rasmussen to be unlikely voters.
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    Feb 22, 2011 11:33 AM GMT
    That's the same percentage that are against marriage equality for gay men and lesbians. Americans oppose the tyranny of the majority.

    Any minute now SouthBeach will pop in to tell you that being a Canadian your opinion is moot.

    Any second now...

    Any second now...



    icon_rolleyes.gif
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Feb 22, 2011 1:53 PM GMT
    In 1820, Rassmussen did a survey on slavery in....Mississippi....icon_rolleyes.gif
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Feb 22, 2011 1:55 PM GMT
    Popular opinion doesn't change the fact that Governor Walker's aim is union-busting in the name of a budget crisis.
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    Feb 22, 2011 2:05 PM GMT
    jprichva saidIt's bullshit anyway.

    Nate Silver tweeted yesterday that Rasmussen has simply abandoned all pretense of being non-partisan.


    Mmmm, Nate Silver. He's such an adorkable, little Mr. Smarty-pants.
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    Feb 22, 2011 3:18 PM GMT
    coolarmydude saidIn 1820, Rassmussen did a survey on slavery in....Mississippi....icon_rolleyes.gif


    So backing the governor is backing slavery? What's the point of this comment? If the majority favored unions would you make the same comment?
  • rnch

    Posts: 11524

    Feb 22, 2011 3:27 PM GMT
    coolarmydude saidPopular opinion doesn't change the fact that Governor Walker's aim is union-busting in the name of a budget crisis.





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    Feb 22, 2011 3:31 PM GMT
    First They came...
    First they came for the communists,
    and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

    Then they came for the trade unionists,
    and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

    Then they came for the Jews,
    and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

    Then they came for me
    and there was no one left to speak out for me.


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    Feb 22, 2011 3:33 PM GMT
    mocktwinkie said
    coolarmydude saidIn 1820, Rassmussen did a survey on slavery in....Mississippi....icon_rolleyes.gif


    So backing the governor is backing slavery? What's the point of this comment? If the majority favored unions would you make the same comment?


    I'm not sure what coolarmydude meant. I think he was being flip.

    That said, the majority of people in Wisconsin do back the unions and that trend is continuing to grow the longer Walker continues his intransigence.

    Two polls (one admittedly requested by the AFL-CIO) have found:

    GQR Research PollSixty-two percent of respondents to the poll said they view public employees favorably, while just 11% said they had an unfavorable view of the workers whose benefits packages Walker says are breaking the state budget.

    Meanwhile, just 39% of respondents had a favorable view of Walker, while 49% had an unfavorable view of the freshman Republican governor. Voters are split on his job performance, with 51% saying they disapprove of the job Walker has done.

    "Since the protests began, Governor Walker has seen real erosion in his standing," the GQR pollsters write in their analysis, "with a majority expressing disapproval of his job performance and disagreement with his agenda."

    Other questions from the poll show that when given a detailed description on the current dispute between labor and the Republicans in Madison, Wisconsin voters tend to side with the unions.
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Feb 22, 2011 3:34 PM GMT
    mocktwinkie said
    coolarmydude saidIn 1820, Rassmussen did a survey on slavery in....Mississippi....icon_rolleyes.gif


    So backing the governor is backing slavery? What's the point of this comment? If the majority favored unions would you make the same comment?


    OH! You're asking me for insight?! Well...let me enjoy this moment and I'll get back to you...
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    Feb 22, 2011 5:17 PM GMT
    This bogus and obviously biased poll is more proof that Rasmussen is nothing more than a cog in the wheel of the pro-right-wing propaganda machine.

    It's surprising that an "Independent" like riddler would keep posting threads consisting of nothing more than pro-right-wing BS.
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    Feb 22, 2011 5:36 PM GMT
    theatrengym saidSeveral thoughts.

    First, it wouldn't greatly surprise to find a lot of support for the governor. Times are tough and people want a scapegoat. Unions make a good scapegoat.

    Second, there's a huge amount of money in the campaign against them.

    Third, there are some questions about this particular poll.

    http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/02/21/rasmussen-poll-on-wisconsin-dispute-may-be-biased/?partner=rss&emc=rss

    Fourth, this poll was of likely voters. Or the people who Rasumussen decided were likely voters. I don't get this. If this was a poll about an upcoming election, then it makes sense to report the results of "likely voters." I'd be interested in seeing the results including the people deemed by Rasmussen to be unlikely voters.


    There is a bias in age in the polling by Rasmussen of likely voters - in that they skew older and they ask if they are planning to vote. The problem with the last election of course was that there was a much larger youth vote and the older segment of the population stayed home - so the difference of 4% skewed towards Republicans isn't necessarily much of a surprise. I would be personally surprised if in the US election we saw a similar effect given how much Obama's base is generally disillusioned.

    I'd disagree with the issue of scapegoating but that might just be semantics - I mean if you want a reason for high costs, employees and associated benefits - especially in government are a good place to find it. Then again, I'm on record as saying that I don't believe that public employees should be allowed to unionize (even FDR didn't think so oddly enough). As much as (some) Republicans and corporations may be throwing money against the size of government (you could argue this is as much for the benefit of everyone as it is self interest), Democrats are even more incentivized to push to support these unions given the significant financial and local support they get in organized volunteers and networks.

    It's a vicious cycle though. Like any self interested party, unions push for more spending and contribute to Democrats who in turn are predisposed to ever larger spends.

    jprichva saidIt's bullshit anyway.

    Nate Silver tweeted yesterday that Rasmussen has simply abandoned all pretense of being non-partisan.


    Lol. No, that would be Nate Silver's criticism - which is overstated but then again, I suppose he openly admits his bias and also his participation in the Journolist.
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    Feb 22, 2011 5:41 PM GMT
    LeanathleticDC saidFirst They came...
    First they came for the communists,
    and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

    Then they came for the trade unionists,
    and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

    Then they came for the Jews,
    and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

    Then they came for me
    and there was no one left to speak out for me.


    If this is the level of idiocy that passes for valid criticism from Democrats and the left, it is little wonder that we see today that the Obama administration is backing away from the fight in Wisconsin and the Republicans appear to be holding firm. The level of absurd hyperbole especially in the aftermath of calls to be civil following the Giffords attack, by a leftwing loon no less, is beyond parody. An election happened November 2nd. It's the Democrats who have run away to avoid a vote and debate because they are so beholden to unionized interests.

    Lest there be little doubt, this is a fight worth watching with a lot at stake for both sides - especially for the fiscal health of the US.
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    Feb 22, 2011 5:51 PM GMT
    Jon Stewart satirically explains polls:

    Starts around t=4min

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    Feb 22, 2011 5:55 PM GMT
    riddler78 said
    LeanathleticDC saidFirst They came...
    First they came for the communists,
    and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

    Then they came for the trade unionists,
    and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

    Then they came for the Jews,
    and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

    Then they came for me
    and there was no one left to speak out for me.


    If this is the level of idiocy that passes for valid criticism from Democrats and the left, it is little wonder that we see today that the Obama administration is backing away from the fight in Wisconsin and the Republicans appear to be holding firm. The level of absurd hyperbole especially in the aftermath of calls to be civil following the Giffords attack, by a leftwing loon no less, is beyond parody. An election happened November 2nd. It's the Democrats who have run away to avoid a vote and debate because they are so beholden to unionized interests.

    Lest there be little doubt, this is a fight worth watching with a lot at stake for both sides - especially for the fiscal health of the US.


    - - - - - - - -- - -
    I read your profile riddler78.

    Here's something you wrote in your profile:
    "My focus at the moment is in building a few businesses."


    Make sure your future employees know how you feel about taking away the negotiated rights of employees....and your lack of empathy.

  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Feb 22, 2011 6:07 PM GMT
    riddler78 said The level of absurd hyperbole especially in the aftermath of calls to be civil following the Giffords attack, by a leftwing loon no less, is beyond parody.


    Be the change you seek. icon_idea.gif
  • ohioguy12

    Posts: 2024

    Feb 22, 2011 6:09 PM GMT
    A lot of people who voted for these Republicans wanted spending cut, without realizing the ramifications, but when the cuts effect them, then they have a problem.
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    Feb 22, 2011 6:12 PM GMT
    riddler78 said
    LeanathleticDC saidFirst They came...
    First they came for the communists,
    and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

    Then they came for the trade unionists,
    and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

    Then they came for the Jews,
    and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

    Then they came for me
    and there was no one left to speak out for me.


    If this is the level of idiocy that passes for valid criticism from Democrats and the left, it is little wonder that we see today that the Obama administration is backing away from the fight in Wisconsin and the Republicans appear to be holding firm. The level of absurd hyperbole especially in the aftermath of calls to be civil following the Giffords attack, by a leftwing loon no less, is beyond parody. An election happened November 2nd. It's the Democrats who have run away to avoid a vote and debate because they are so beholden to unionized interests.

    Lest there be little doubt, this is a fight worth watching with a lot at stake for both sides - especially for the fiscal health of the US.




    You call LeanathelticDC an idiot, and you resort to pathetic name-calling ("leftwing loon") - and then you whine about a lack of civility.
    Are you deliberately TRYING to make yourself look hypocritical?

    And FYI - BOTH sides are "holding firm" in WI.
    And the Democrats are fighting for the rights of American workers.
    FYI "unionized interests" protect the rights of American workers.
    Unlike the Republican party.
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    Feb 22, 2011 6:13 PM GMT
    LeanathleticDC said - - - - - - -- - -
    I read your profile riddler78.

    Here's something you wrote in your profile:
    "My focus at the moment is in building a few businesses."


    Make sure your future employees know how you feel about taking away the negotiated rights of employees....and your lack of empathy.



    These assinine comments are completely in line with your earlier ones. I have significantly less turnover than my competitors and that's because I pay them well. You seem not to see or differentiate between public sector workers and private sector ones - but that's your prerogative.

    The reality is this: unions are indicative of bad management especially in private firms today. Employees compete for their share of private profits - and take too much, the enterprise should fail (unless you're a big auto maker or financial services firm in which case the government will bail you out). In government it's entirely different. Further, the level of absurd hyperbole doesn't even remotely help your cause. Your average voter or even a remarkably stupid one can tell that the Scott Walker isn't hitler, stalin or any other genocidal despot - and to make the allusions goes beyond absurd.

    This cartoon says it all - from a liberal cartoonist no less:
    4d6065b3cfb45-image.jpg
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    Feb 22, 2011 6:16 PM GMT
    mocktwinkie said
    coolarmydude saidIn 1820, Rassmussen did a survey on slavery in....Mississippi....icon_rolleyes.gif


    So backing the governor is backing slavery? What's the point of this comment? If the majority favored unions would you make the same comment?


    It's obvious what he is implying by the comment--don't act like an idiot.

    Your last question however was a great one--people only use polls when they support their own views.

    Polls are pointless in my opinion. No matter the issue nothing else so easily exposes the dumb of our electorate like political polls
  • stefanapolis

    Posts: 65

    Feb 22, 2011 6:17 PM GMT
    I live in Wisconsin, so its happening around me.

    First, Walker refuses to listen to the other side. The unions are willing to take financial concessions, but want to keep collective bargaining rights. They are will to work with the governor.

    Second, Walker is going after the Unions that did not support him. He may claim its budgetary, but he won't touch the rights of the unions that supported his campaign, making this purely a political move to make him more electable.

    Third, as a Governor, Walker has killed at least 5000 jobs in the state since taking office because those jobs were in the competitive market of his biggest supporters and regularly gives out over priced contracts to his financial backers

    Fourth, taking away collective bargaining rights will not alleviate our budget, actually its is predicted that whether the unions have the rights or not, the deficit is due to increase under Walker

    Fifth, The unions that had supported Walker are now leaving him and publicly claiming their support was wrong. As well as the Green Bay Packers.

    Finally, as a child of a teacher and a private sector executive, I grew up with both sides. And my mother who was a teacher never made as much as my dad, not even close, but for our family it was fine because my fathers income easily supplemented it. But her insurance was better then his and there for better for our family. Most teachers are not in this situation.

    This is just being used as a scape goat by a man who doesn't value anyone who does not support him politically.

    And as a whole, the country wonders why we are falling more and more behind in education. Because we treat these people like crap who shouldn't be paid well or have good benefits. Why would ANYONE want to become a teacher these days. Parents blame you for not parenting their kids or when they don't perform well, society blames you for not fixing its problems, and apparently you are just considered a drag on budgets and not an investment.

    My family won't be affected by this and no none are working in the public sector anymore. but we all still support the unions and their right to collectively bargain.

    Also one last note, I'm not sure if I would believe that number of 48% backing our Governor, especially within our state.

    Also, our governor is just a jack ass, complaining that the other side won't work with him, but work with him he means, give in to every one of his little demands and lay down and take it. because he refuses to work with them or even open discuss the issue within our state and tried to push this bill through in a week.

    He is the epitome of polarized politics and what is wrong with politics in our nation currently.

    Didn't mean to make this so long. It just a big deal here!
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    Feb 22, 2011 6:17 PM GMT
    rickrick91 saidYou call LeanathelticDC an idiot, and you resort to pathetic name-calling ("leftwing loon") - and then you whine about a lack of civility.
    Are you deliberately TRYING to make yourself look hypocritical?

    And FYI - BOTH sides are "holding firm" in WI.
    And the Democrats are fighting for the rights of American workers.
    FYI "unionized interests" protect the rights of American workers.
    Unlike the Republican party.


    Her attacker was a left wing loon. He held some extraordinarily anarchist views with respect to the holding of gold - but in most other respects he was very much left wing if not anti-right which I interpret to be right wing.

    I haven't made the same calls for civility (hence no hypocrisy). I think it's nice to have, but the calls for civility following Giffords and as shown by the hypocrisy and double standards in the days following the attacks were mere attempts to silence dissent and reduce the Republican momentum following the November elections.
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    Feb 22, 2011 6:19 PM GMT
    Christian73 saidThat's the same percentage that are against marriage equality for gay men and lesbians. Americans oppose the tyranny of the majority.

    Any minute now SouthBeach will pop in to tell you that being a Canadian your opinion is moot.

    Any second now...

    Any second now...



    icon_rolleyes.gif



    Notice you never see SB call out Riddler the same way he does meninlove. At least meninlove comment on a variety of topics that do not just include American politics. Riddler is obssesed and almost never is involved in any forum that is not about American politics.
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    Feb 22, 2011 6:21 PM GMT
    riddler78 said
    LeanathleticDC said - - - - - - -- - -
    I read your profile riddler78.

    Here's something you wrote in your profile:
    "My focus at the moment is in building a few businesses."


    Make sure your future employees know how you feel about taking away the negotiated rights of employees....and your lack of empathy.



    These assinine comments are completely in line with your earlier ones. I have significantly less turnover than my competitors and that's because I pay them well. You seem not to see or differentiate between public sector workers and private sector ones - but that's your prerogative.

    The reality is this: unions are indicative of bad management especially in private firms today. Employees compete for their share of private profits - and take too much, the enterprise should fail (unless you're a big auto maker or financial services firm in which case the government will bail you out). In government it's entirely different. Further, the level of absurd hyperbole doesn't even remotely help your cause. Your average voter or even a remarkably stupid one can tell that the Scott Walker isn't hitler, stalin or any other genocidal despot - and to make the allusions goes beyond absurd.

    This cartoon says it all - from a liberal cartoonist no less:
    4d6065b3cfb45-image.jpg


    That cartoon is great! I was looking for it the other day...