Why the Evil Koch Bros. Must be Stopped: They Support Drug Legalization, Gay Marriage, Reduced Defense Spending

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 24, 2011 7:41 PM GMT
    http://reason.com/blog/2011/02/24/evil-koch-bros-support

    The KOCH brothers must be stopped. They gave $40K to Scott Walker, the MAX allowed by state law. That's small potatoes compared to the $100+ million they give to other organizations. These organizations will terrify you. If the anti-union thing weren't enough, here are bigger and better reasons to stop the evil Kochs. They are trying to:

    decriminalize drugs,
    legalize gay marriage,
    repeal the Patriot Act,
    end the police state,
    cut defense spending.
    Who hates the police? Only the criminals using drugs, amirite? We need the Patriot Act to allow government to go through our emails and tap our phones to catch people who smoke marijuana and put them in prison. Oh, it's also good for terrorists.

    Wikipedia shows Koch Family Foundations supporting causes like:

    CATO Institute
    Reason Foundation
    cancer research
    ballet (because seriously: FUCK. THAT. SHIT.) ...
    If there's one thing I know about billionaires, it's that they only care about money. Bill Gates, Warren Buffett and George Soros. They aren't fooling me. Bill Gates isn't fooling me with his vaccination campaign in Africa. He's just trying to make African children live longer so they will buy more copies of Windows. Wow. Not even trying to hide it.

    Now, I don't know why the KOCH brothers want gay people to have the right to marry. Everybody knows marriage is for a man and a woman. Even Obama said that. Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve amirite? I haven't figured out the angle. Maybe it's like this:

    legalize drugs
    legalize gay marriage
    sell drugs and oil to gays
    ????
    PROFIT$$$
    I don't know exactly how it would work, but we can all agree that they're evil.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 24, 2011 7:52 PM GMT
    Don't you know, the libs take their marching orders from their sites that have directed them to continually discuss these Koch brothers to deflect attention away from George Soros.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 24, 2011 8:31 PM GMT
    socalfitness saidDon't you know, the libs take their marching orders from their sites that have directed them to continually discuss these Koch brothers to deflect attention away from George Soros.



    Did you learn that at the Beck Loser Rally or the Stewart Rally?
  • conservativej...

    Posts: 2465

    Feb 24, 2011 9:53 PM GMT
    They are both actually rather pleasant gentlemen.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 24, 2011 10:05 PM GMT
    riddler78 saidhttp://reason.com/blog/2011/02/24/evil-koch-bros-support

    The KOCH brothers must be stopped. They gave $40K to Scott Walker, the MAX allowed by state law. That's small potatoes compared to the $100+ million they give to other organizations. These organizations will terrify you. If the anti-union thing weren't enough, here are bigger and better reasons to stop the evil Kochs. They are trying to:

    decriminalize drugs,
    legalize gay marriage,
    repeal the Patriot Act,
    end the police state,
    cut defense spending.
    Who hates the police? Only the criminals using drugs, amirite? We need the Patriot Act to allow government to go through our emails and tap our phones to catch people who smoke marijuana and put them in prison. Oh, it's also good for terrorists.

    Wikipedia shows Koch Family Foundations supporting causes like:

    CATO Institute
    Reason Foundation
    cancer research
    ballet (because seriously: FUCK. THAT. SHIT.) ...
    If there's one thing I know about billionaires, it's that they only care about money. Bill Gates, Warren Buffett and George Soros. They aren't fooling me. Bill Gates isn't fooling me with his vaccination campaign in Africa. He's just trying to make African children live longer so they will buy more copies of Windows. Wow. Not even trying to hide it.

    Now, I don't know why the KOCH brothers want gay people to have the right to marry. Everybody knows marriage is for a man and a woman. Even Obama said that. Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve amirite? I haven't figured out the angle. Maybe it's like this:

    legalize drugs
    legalize gay marriage
    sell drugs and oil to gays
    ????
    PROFIT$$$
    I don't know exactly how it would work, but we can all agree that they're evil.


    Oh but something must be wrong. They MUST be anti-gay, they just must be!
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Feb 24, 2011 11:09 PM GMT
    Follow DA Money

    Americans for Prosperity (AFP) is an astroturf front group started by David Koch and Richard Fink (a member of the board of directors of Koch Industries). AFP works together with the Koch family’s other conservative foundations and think tanks to disrupt Barack Obama's presidency. Accordingly, AFP has opposed health care reform, stimulus spending, and cap-and-trade legislation, which is aimed at making industries pay for the air pollution that they create.

    Koch Industries is also a major polluter. During the 1990s, its faulty pipelines were responsible for more than 300 oil spills in five states, prompting a landmark penalty of $35 million from the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). In Minnesota, it was fined an additional $8 million for discharging oil into streams. During the months leading up to the 2000 presidential elections, the company faced even more liability, in the form of a 97-count federal indictment charging it with concealing illegal releases of 91 metric tons of benzene, a known carcinogen, from its refinery in Corpus Christi, Texas. Koch Industries was ranked number 10 on the list of Toxic 100 Air Polluters by the Political Economy Research Institute in March, 2010. [1][2]

    In a study released in the spring of 2010, the University of Massachusetts at Amherst’s Political Economy Research Institute named Koch Industries one of the United States' top ten air polluters. [15]

    Republican Ties

    If convicted, the company faced fines of up to $352 million, plus possible jail time for company executives. After George W. Bush became president, however, the U.S. Justice Department dropped 88 of the charges. Two days before the trial, John Ashcroft settled for a plea bargain, in which Koch pled guilty to falsifying documents. All major charges were dropped, and Koch and Ashcroft settled the lawsuit for a fraction of that amount.

    Koch had contributed $800,000 to the Bush election campaign and other Republican candidates.


    Freakin' Ballet Huh????
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 25, 2011 1:18 AM GMT
    So the organization that is funded by the Koch brothers is defending their role in Wisconsin, including likely collusion with Gov. Walker?

    I guess we no longer have to even feign taking seriously anything riddler quotes from reason.org. icon_lol.gif



  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 25, 2011 1:31 AM GMT
    Somewhere in that rant the proof for the theorem

    x supports y
    y supports z
    Therefore, x supports z

    is missing.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 25, 2011 2:33 AM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    Christian73 saidSo the organization that is funded by the Koch brothers is defending their role in Wisconsin, including likely collusion with Gov. Walker?

    I guess we no longer have to even feign taking seriously anything riddler quotes from reason.org. icon_lol.gif





    If you want collusion, take a look at which political party gets the overwhelming majority of union member's dues. icon_wink.gif


    That's not the definition of collusion. And this silly argument that labor supports Democrats (no shit!) is somehow as bad or worse than corporations and uber-wealthy individuals funding the Republicans and their post-Citizens United front-groups is both specious and hypocritical.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 25, 2011 6:18 AM GMT
    riddler78 saidhttp://reason.com/blog/2011/02/24/evil-koch-bros-support

    The KOCH brothers must be stopped. They gave $40K to Scott Walker, the MAX allowed by state law. That's small potatoes compared to the $100+ million they give to other organizations. These organizations will terrify you. If the anti-union thing weren't enough, here are bigger and better reasons to stop the evil Kochs. They are trying to:

    decriminalize drugs,
    legalize gay marriage,
    repeal the Patriot Act,
    end the police state,
    cut defense spending
    .


    Who hates the police? Only the criminals using drugs, amirite? We need the Patriot Act to allow government to go through our emails and tap our phones to catch people who smoke marijuana and put them in prison. Oh, it's also good for terrorists.

    Wikipedia shows Koch Family Foundations supporting causes like:

    CATO Institute
    Reason Foundation
    cancer research

    ballet (because seriously: FUCK. THAT. SHIT.) ...
    If there's one thing I know about billionaires, it's that they only care about money. Bill Gates, Warren Buffett and George Soros. They aren't fooling me. Bill Gates isn't fooling me with his vaccination campaign in Africa. He's just trying to make African children live longer so they will buy more copies of Windows. Wow. Not even trying to hide it.

    Now, I don't know why the KOCH brothers want gay people to have the right to marry. Everybody knows marriage is for a man and a woman. Even Obama said that. Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve amirite? I haven't figured out the angle. Maybe it's like this:

    legalize drugs
    legalize gay marriage
    sell drugs and oil to gays
    ????
    PROFIT$$$
    I don't know exactly how it would work, but we can all agree that they're evil.



    Hell Yeah!


    These are my kind of guys...

    But don't expect the Liberal Hens to unplug their ears and lift away the blinders of the Hive Mind and MSNBC long enough to give this but a moment's glance... icon_wink.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 25, 2011 1:26 PM GMT
    OK, alphatrigger, I think you support DOMA, DADT and a Constitutional Amendment banning same-sex marriage.

    You support the Republicans.
    Republicans support DOMA, DADT and a Constitutional Amendment banning same-sex marriage.
    Therefore, you support DOMA, DADT and a Constitutional Amendment banning same-sex marriage.

    QED.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 25, 2011 1:35 PM GMT
    q1w2e3 saidOK, alphatrigger, I think you support DOMA, DADT and a Constitutional Amendment banning same-sex marriage.

    You support the Republicans.
    Republicans support DOMA, DADT and a Constitutional Amendment banning same-sex marriage.
    Therefore, you support DOMA, DADT and a Constitutional Amendment banning same-sex marriage.

    QED.

    Put "some" before "Republicans" in both cases above and eliminate the "the" before the first "Republicans". If you're smart enough to use QED, then perhaps you are also smart enough to understand basic logic, and should, after making the suggested corrections, realize the resulting elementary error.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 25, 2011 1:39 PM GMT
    socalfitness said
    q1w2e3 saidOK, alphatrigger, I think you support DOMA, DADT and a Constitutional Amendment banning same-sex marriage.

    You support the Republicans.
    Republicans support DOMA, DADT and a Constitutional Amendment banning same-sex marriage.
    Therefore, you support DOMA, DADT and a Constitutional Amendment banning same-sex marriage.

    QED.

    Put "some" before "Republicans" in both cases above and eliminate the "the" before the first "Republicans". If you're smart enough to use QED, then perhaps you are also smart enough to understand basic logic, and should realize your elementary error.


    I think Q is referring to the Republican Party, which does support DOMA, DADT and said Constitutional amendment.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 25, 2011 1:47 PM GMT
    Christian73 said
    socalfitness said
    q1w2e3 saidOK, alphatrigger, I think you support DOMA, DADT and a Constitutional Amendment banning same-sex marriage.

    You support the Republicans.
    Republicans support DOMA, DADT and a Constitutional Amendment banning same-sex marriage.
    Therefore, you support DOMA, DADT and a Constitutional Amendment banning same-sex marriage.

    QED.

    Put "some" before "Republicans" in both cases above and eliminate the "the" before the first "Republicans". If you're smart enough to use QED, then perhaps you are also smart enough to understand basic logic, and should realize your elementary error.


    I think Q is referring to the Republican Party, which does support DOMA, DADT and said Constitutional amendment.

    I understand, but the point I was making is I believe most of us do not support all Republicans or all positions taken by various state parties or the national party.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 25, 2011 1:52 PM GMT
    In another thread, I noticed that an RJ member pointed to a TV commentator, who I think is liberal, Shep Smith, make a remark about the Koch brothers that would be music to the ears of many liberals here. The thing the RJ member did not mention is Shep Smith is on FOX News. Mentioning that might damage the opinion held by many here that FOX is 100% radical right-wing.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 25, 2011 2:07 PM GMT
    socalfitness saidIn another thread, I noticed that an RJ member pointed to a TV commentator, who I think is liberal, Shep Smith, make a remark about the Koch brothers that would be music to the ears of many liberals here. The thing the RJ member did not mention is Shep Smith is on FOX News. Mentioning that might damage the opinion held by many here that FOX is 100% radical right-wing.



    Oh socalfitness...

    We all know we can't believe most of what you type on here.
    Getting caught lying on here ruins your chances of anyone believing most of what you type.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 25, 2011 5:18 PM GMT
    q1w2e3 saidOK, alphatrigger, I think you support DOMA, DADT and a Constitutional Amendment banning same-sex marriage.

    You support the Republicans.
    Republicans support DOMA, DADT and a Constitutional Amendment banning same-sex marriage.
    Therefore, you support DOMA, DADT and a Constitutional Amendment banning same-sex marriage.

    QED.


    A bit of a logic fail (one I surmise you have done to illustrate a point, you crafty fellow!)

    I do support some Republicans. And there are a very few Democrats I'd support (where the GOP candidate is so apart from my views on an issue that I could not vote for him with a good conscience).

    I do not support DOMA.

    I do not, and did not, support the FMA (anti-marriage equality amendment that was floated by social conservatives in 2006)

    DADT was a very poorly though out stopgap/compromise to LGBT servicemembers since the political climate of the 90s was much less favorable to pursue full and equal recognition of their rights to serve.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 25, 2011 6:05 PM GMT
    socalfitness saidIn another thread, I noticed that an RJ member pointed to a TV commentator, who I think is liberal, Shep Smith, make a remark about the Koch brothers that would be music to the ears of many liberals here. The thing the RJ member did not mention is Shep Smith is on FOX News. Mentioning that might damage the opinion held by many here that FOX is 100% radical right-wing.


    It's funny because the conservative blogosphere has been on fire the last couple of days attacking Shep Smith for what he said.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 25, 2011 9:03 PM GMT
    If you bothered to read my first post, you would have seen the folly of my subsequent "proof," and the folly of the OP.

    Or do I need to draw Venn diagrams now too? icon_lol.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 25, 2011 9:18 PM GMT
    Q: What I took away from the OP was this...

    The Koch Bros. are not an expressly evil set of twins bent on pushing the entire GOP agenda.

    They support some things I like, such as legalization of drugs (waaaaaay too many people incarcerated for minor possession charges) and they support marriage equality.

    They have several philanthropic concerns going on.

    They support the libertarian thinktank, the Cato Institute.

    They support repeal of the Patriot Act (which I think is the single most individual liberty crushing piece of legislation thus far in the 21st century)

    They support reduced defense spending

    On the downside, they do involve themselves with the TP as deeply as George Soros does with Media Matters and MoveOn.org (I am no great fan of huge amounts of capital being used to influence elections, but we
    are dealing with the hands we are being dealt: and having a billionaire or two on the conservative/libertarian side of the fray for a change is balance to the Soros money machine.

    And Koch Industries have been notorious polluters (doesn't sit highly
    with me since a good business must also be a good steward of it resources and it's shared environment with the rest of the public.

    Upon learning of the positive influences they have, I am glad that in some respects... we share similar positions.

    It is not a simple test of x → y and y → z therefore x → z as you suggest.

    I support *some* but not all mainstream GOP positions, particularly diverging on many social issues.

    Likewise... the Koch Bros. are not Republicans entirely in lockstep with the Bush/NeoCon perspective.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 25, 2011 9:25 PM GMT
    alphatrigger saidOn the downside, they do involve themselves with the TP as deeply as George Soros does with Media Matters and MoveOn.org (I am no great fan of huge amounts of capital being used to influence elections, but we are dealing with the hands we are being dealt: and having a billionaire or two on the conservative/libertarian side of the fray for a change is balance to the Soros money machine.


    The only issue I take with your post is that Soros made his first gift to Media Matters last year, after many years of the Right claiming that they were in his pocket. In terms of MoveOn.org, I think his relationship with them has also been vastly overstated, whereas until Wisconsin, the Koch's relationships with all these political groups was completely ignored by the media.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 25, 2011 9:30 PM GMT
    Let me spell it out:
    Koch brothers support Cato Institute and Reason Foundation.
    Cato Institute and Reason Foundation (supposedly) support gay marriage and drug decriminalization.
    Therefore, Koch brothers support gay marriage and drug decriminalization.

    To jump from the first 2 statements to the 3rd statement requires a large leap of logic.
    Please quote me specifically a statement from them that says that they support gay marriage and drug decriminalization.

    I suspect they couldn't care less, as long as those who they support champion free market über alles, unions, middle class, environmental, global climate. Money trumps everything.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 25, 2011 9:36 PM GMT
    "It is not a simple test of x → y and y → z therefore x → z as you suggest."

    QFT



    This is the overly simplistic fallacy that typify some of ridder's and all of Southbeach's posts.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 25, 2011 9:37 PM GMT
    http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0211/No_Kochliberal_alliance.html [The] implication is that, if you're horrified by the Bush administration's civil rights record and supportive of gay marriage, the Koch brothers are for you. In fact, they're not. They work very hard to elect Bush and members of Congress who will support his agenda. They support think-tanks that oppose right-wing defense and civil liberties as long as they also support right-wing economic policies.

    Another way to put this is that the Kochs will happily put their money behind candidates and intellectuals who agree with their economic agenda but disagree with their social agenda. They will never put their money behind candidates or intellectuals of whom the reverse is true.

    Now, there is a coherent view here. The view is that libertarianism ought to be organized around economics, and especially opposition to progressive taxation and any attempt to put a price on greenhouse gas emissions. The Kochs have helped make this the dominant strain of American libertarianism. You can defend that if you want. But to pretend that people on the left should feel half-gratitude toward the Kochs because the Kochs support them on a bunch of issues is disingenuous. The Kochs are overwhelmingly in the business of supporting the Republican agenda.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 25, 2011 9:58 PM GMT
    q1w2e3 said
    http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0211/No_Kochliberal_alliance.html [The] implication is that, if you're horrified by the Bush administration's civil rights record and supportive of gay marriage, the Koch brothers are for you. In fact, they're not. They work very hard to elect Bush and members of Congress who will support his agenda. They support think-tanks that oppose right-wing defense and civil liberties as long as they also support right-wing economic policies.

    Another way to put this is that the Kochs will happily put their money behind candidates and intellectuals who agree with their economic agenda but disagree with their social agenda. They will never put their money behind candidates or intellectuals of whom the reverse is true.

    Now, there is a coherent view here. The view is that libertarianism ought to be organized around economics, and especially opposition to progressive taxation and any attempt to put a price on greenhouse gas emissions. The Kochs have helped make this the dominant strain of American libertarianism. You can defend that if you want. But to pretend that people on the left should feel half-gratitude toward the Kochs because the Kochs support them on a bunch of issues is disingenuous. The Kochs are overwhelmingly in the business of supporting the Republican agenda.



    Disingenuousness by its nature relies on the listener's unthinking acceptance of what they are being spoonfed. There is a consistency then in seeing posts like this from the right (who are perceived by the left-leaning here as lacking in critical in-depth thinking beyond first impressions (often mistaken) - (ie. intellectually lazy).

    A perfect illustration of this occurred here today: Southbeach saw a thread titled "For those Who Miss SouthBeach" and, too lazy to click the link, failed to realise the thread was about Glenn Beck.