Cdn arrested in Berlin for Nazi salute

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    Feb 28, 2011 2:18 AM GMT
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    The Reichstag in Berlin.
    Photograph by: Getty Images, file photo

    German police detained a 30-year-old Quebec tourist after he posed for a photograph while striking the Nazi salute.


    LONDON - A Quebec tourist who thought it was amusing to have himself photographed outside the Reichstag in Berlin giving the "Heil Hitler" Nazi salute has been arrested.


    The 30-year-old man was standing on the steps of the German parliament building with his right arm raised as his girlfriend, 29, photographed him in the forbidden pose.


    Police arrived within seconds, handcuffed him and seized the camera's memory card.


    He risked being formally charged with making a forbidden gesture, an offence for which he could have been jailed for up to six months.


    But it is understood he will be let off with a fine and a warning. He was freed after several hours in police custody on Saturday after posting bail.


    Hundreds of tourists every year make the mistake of thinking that Monty Pythonesque jokes about Hitler and his henchmen – including giving his infamous raised-arm salute – are acceptable when visiting Germany.


    But any gestures of the old Nazi regime, or the displaying of any of its symbols, are a serious crime in modern-day Germany. Three years ago a British businessman at Cologne airport gave the salute to a taxi official – and was arrested immediately.


    See also: Quebec Languages Act briefly becomes Nazi Act on Wikipedia

    © Copyright (c) The Montreal Gazette


    Read more: http://www.montrealgazette.com/Quebec+tourist+busted+giving+Nazi+salute/4355560/story.html#ixzz1FDRZMwZW
  • TrentGrad

    Posts: 1541

    Feb 28, 2011 3:06 AM GMT
    Um...well, I read that story...kinda scary how the police arrived within seconds to arrest him!

    I love, love, LOVE Germans...such beautiful people...but that's bloody scary that they seized the memory card...and him...within a matter of seconds! Eek!
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    Feb 28, 2011 7:09 AM GMT
    What an idiot. ...he should done some research before going to Germany n maybe this embarrassing situation would have been avoided
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    Feb 28, 2011 7:18 AM GMT
    Typical story of foreign visitors being ignorant of the laws of the country they are visiting. This one didn't even require knowledge of Germany's laws but rather some common sense. So many other examples from the past. Here's some information geared towards study abroad students.

    At least he didn't get caned:
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    Feb 28, 2011 7:21 AM GMT
    Germans love rules.
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    Feb 28, 2011 7:46 AM GMT
    ooh dear. hello germany, as much as you'd like to erradicate all knowledge of its existence in your everyday lives, its your truth!
    this is just another way germany is trying to get forget its horrible past! it was a very imprudent thing for the man to do but not worth getting sent to jail!
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    Feb 28, 2011 7:50 AM GMT
    I think that law is ridiculous. It would be like ppl being detained for flying the confederate flag.... Which does happen... It's looked down upon but time in prison.. The "crime" does not fit the punishment. Glad Germany has never been a country I wanted to visit
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Feb 28, 2011 8:09 AM GMT
    jrunner25 saidooh dear. hello germany, as much as you'd like to erradicate all knowledge of its existence in your everyday lives, its your truth!
    this is just another way germany is trying to get forget its horrible past! it was a very imprudent thing for the man to do but not worth getting sent to jail!


    LOL! Your assessment is incorrect. Did the police have to jog their memory in order to determine whether the tourist's gesture was an arrestable offense? Germans aren't trying to forget their history. They are trying to prevent it from repeating itself.

    It is also illegal in Germany to name your child Adolf.
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    Feb 28, 2011 8:18 AM GMT
    I remember my teacher Mrs.Fox (being of German descent) being very uncomfortable during the discussion about Germany's involvement in the war.

    The average citizens are very sensitive about this topic because they are ashamed and sadden of what Adolf Hitler tried to do. In fact Germany was supposedly quite a nice country even then before the 'ethnic cleansing began to occur. It was a very dark period during the War..They acknowledge it but you don't exactly throw mud in their face, especially when you in front of their Parliament building

    The guy should have been more mindful about it even if was a unintentional....

    If you really want to talk about hypocritical oafs...Just check out Dubai icon_evil.gif
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    Feb 28, 2011 8:22 AM GMT
    coolarmydude said
    jrunner25 saidooh dear. hello germany, as much as you'd like to erradicate all knowledge of its existence in your everyday lives, its your truth!
    this is just another way germany is trying to get forget its horrible past! it was a very imprudent thing for the man to do but not worth getting sent to jail!


    LOL! Your assessment is incorrect. Did the police have to jog their memory in order to determine whether the tourist's gesture was an arrestable offense? Germans aren't trying to forget their history. They are trying to prevent it from repeating itself.

    It is also illegal in Germany to name your child Adolf.


    what the hell? doing a salute is preventing the next hitler? are you kidding me? this is no different from Kim Jong-Il quieting any social media! please, this is germany eradicating is scary past.
  • TrentGrad

    Posts: 1541

    Feb 28, 2011 8:37 AM GMT
    itsivan saidWhat an idiot. ...he should done some research before going to Germany n maybe this embarrassing situation would have been avoided


    That was my reaction at first as well...what a schmuck!

    BUT...it's kind of fascinating that, the means to prevent the next Hitler...is through a system where the police show up in a matter of seconds to seize the camera's memory card and whisk away those who posed and took the photo!

    I mean, it seems positively totalitarian in the way things transpired, doesn't it?

    I'll never trash Germans...but the way this was carried out seems EXTREMELY excessive!!!
  • TrentGrad

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    Feb 28, 2011 8:39 AM GMT
    jrunner25 said
    coolarmydude said
    jrunner25 saidooh dear. hello germany, as much as you'd like to erradicate all knowledge of its existence in your everyday lives, its your truth!
    this is just another way germany is trying to get forget its horrible past! it was a very imprudent thing for the man to do but not worth getting sent to jail!


    LOL! Your assessment is incorrect. Did the police have to jog their memory in order to determine whether the tourist's gesture was an arrestable offense? Germans aren't trying to forget their history. They are trying to prevent it from repeating itself.

    It is also illegal in Germany to name your child Adolf.


    what the hell? doing a salute is preventing the next hitler? are you kidding me? this is no different from Kim Jong-Il quieting any social media! please, this is germany eradicating is scary past.


    It's not Germany eradicating a scary past...practically every country on the planet has some atrocity it can be linked to. I suspect Germans are more aware of what happened than most others!

    BUT...yeah, it does seem excessive!!!
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    Feb 28, 2011 8:45 AM GMT
    TrentGrad said
    jrunner25 said
    coolarmydude said
    jrunner25 saidooh dear. hello germany, as much as you'd like to erradicate all knowledge of its existence in your everyday lives, its your truth!
    this is just another way germany is trying to get forget its horrible past! it was a very imprudent thing for the man to do but not worth getting sent to jail!


    LOL! Your assessment is incorrect. Did the police have to jog their memory in order to determine whether the tourist's gesture was an arrestable offense? Germans aren't trying to forget their history. They are trying to prevent it from repeating itself.

    It is also illegal in Germany to name your child Adolf.


    what the hell? doing a salute is preventing the next hitler? are you kidding me? this is no different from Kim Jong-Il quieting any social media! please, this is germany eradicating is scary past.


    It's not Germany eradicating a scary past...practically every country on the planet has some atrocity it can be linked to. I suspect Germans are more aware of what happened than most others!

    BUT...yeah, it does seem excessive!!!


    yeah, we have racist pricks running around glorifying slavery yet no ONE will get arrested for stating that... I get it, you want to pretend that Germany has some moral ground to protect but how about protecting a persons freedom of speech? isn't that the reason a lot of jews were sent to their death... because everyone was afraid to speak for fear of being incarcerated? hmmmmmm?
  • TrentGrad

    Posts: 1541

    Feb 28, 2011 8:47 AM GMT
    5ebastian saidno... Im sure it has more to do with how the world views Germany after WWII. Something like that will never happen again because the world will not allow it. Why doesn't Germany demolish all artifacts from the Third Reich? That seems more blasphemous than a stupid salute.


    What are you talking about...something like that will never happen again?

    It has happened again, and again, and again!

    It happened in Cambodia.

    It happened in Afghanistan.

    It happened in Rwanda.

    It's happening in the Congo.

    And it's happened in other places too...like in Uganda, in Bosnia, in Georgia, apparently by all sides in Sri Lanka, and if you believe some of the people around here, in the occupied Palestinian territories as well.

    What artifacts from the Third Reich are you contending that Germany is preserving? Moreover, do you think it could be that those artifacts are not being destroyed because ultimately, Germany wants to be able to prove that the Holocaust really did happen, especially as the denial groups have increased in the past 20 years or so.
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    Feb 28, 2011 8:57 AM GMT
    TrentGrad said
    5ebastian saidno... Im sure it has more to do with how the world views Germany after WWII. Something like that will never happen again because the world will not allow it. Why doesn't Germany demolish all artifacts from the Third Reich? That seems more blasphemous than a stupid salute.


    What are you talking about...something like that will never happen again?

    It has happened again, and again, and again!

    It happened in Cambodia.

    It happened in Afghanistan.

    It happened in Rwanda.

    It's happening in the Congo.

    And it's happened in other places too...like in Uganda, in Bosnia, in Georgia, apparently by all sides in Sri Lanka, and if you believe some of the people around here, in the occupied Palestinian territories as well.

    What artifacts from the Third Reich are you contending that Germany is preserving? Moreover, do you think it could be that those artifacts are not being destroyed because ultimately, Germany wants to be able to prove that the Holocaust really did happen, especially as the denial groups have increased in the past 20 years or so.


    i think people mean to say that it wont happen in the developed world again. as far as the developing world, well our dumb ass majority that live in our countries don't know their right from their left so you can't expect them to give a rat's ass about what goes on in countries which feel so distant and detached from their reality.
  • TrentGrad

    Posts: 1541

    Feb 28, 2011 9:05 AM GMT
    jrunner25yeah, we have racist pricks running around glorifying slavery yet no ONE will get arrested for stating that... I get it, you want to pretend that Germany has some moral ground to protect but how about protecting a persons freedom of speech? isn't that the reason a lot of jews were sent to their death... because everyone was afraid to speak for fear of being incarcerated? hmmmmmm?


    Actually you don't get my point at all: Germany is ultra-sensitive to what happened, and freedom of speech is fine...provided you acknowledge that there are certain restrictions on that freedom.

    In Germany, you will not celebrate, re-create or deny the actions taken by the Nazis. Preface your "freedom of speech" with that vital consideration, and you can speak out to your hearts content!

    Before you sound off about this, consider that freedom of speech is limited, even in the good old USA: after all, if you make a claim about someone, and it harms their good name, free speech will not protect you from the ramifications that come from that.

    And "free speech" is not a significant consideration in why a lot of people (Jews, Gypsies, gays, communists, the disabled, trade unionists, etc...) were sent to their death. The sad truth is that most Germans did not raise their voices to the Nazis because they actually supported a lot of what the Nazis did: they rejuvenated the economy, brought glory by way of territorial expansion, united East Prussia and Austria under the German flag, protected ethnic Germans in other nations, and helped momentarily erase the humbling defeat following WWI that ravaged the nation.

    Most Germans bought into the Nazi line...that was why they didn't raise their voices to the Nazis!
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    Feb 28, 2011 9:16 AM GMT
    5ebastian saidonce again open up a history book before you run your mouth like you got something important to say. Most Germans DID go along with it because of the conditions that Germany lived in after the first world war. Get your facts straight.


    Just to interject, I do believe that is what he said:
    TrentGrad
    "The sad truth is that most Germans did not raise their voices to the Nazis because they actually supported a lot of what the Nazis did: they rejuvenated the economy, brought glory by way of territorial expansion, united East Prussia and Austria under the German flag, protected ethnic Germans in other nations, and helped momentarily erase the humbling defeat following WWI that ravaged the nation."

  • TrentGrad

    Posts: 1541

    Feb 28, 2011 9:17 AM GMT
    jrunner25 said
    TrentGrad said
    5ebastian saidno... Im sure it has more to do with how the world views Germany after WWII. Something like that will never happen again because the world will not allow it. Why doesn't Germany demolish all artifacts from the Third Reich? That seems more blasphemous than a stupid salute.


    What are you talking about...something like that will never happen again?

    It has happened again, and again, and again!

    It happened in Cambodia.

    It happened in Afghanistan.

    It happened in Rwanda.

    It's happening in the Congo.

    And it's happened in other places too...like in Uganda, in Bosnia, in Georgia, apparently by all sides in Sri Lanka, and if you believe some of the people around here, in the occupied Palestinian territories as well.

    What artifacts from the Third Reich are you contending that Germany is preserving? Moreover, do you think it could be that those artifacts are not being destroyed because ultimately, Germany wants to be able to prove that the Holocaust really did happen, especially as the denial groups have increased in the past 20 years or so.


    i think people mean to say that it wont happen in the developed world again. as far as the developing world, well our dumb ass majority that live in our countries don't know their right from their left so you can't expect them to give a rat's ass about what goes on in countries which feel so distant and detached from their reality.


    Well, it's happened in Europe...right under the noses of the European Union. Over 200,000 people, primarily Bosniaks, were murdered during the Bosnian war, largely under the watch of the UN and NATO! Bosnian Serbs, when they overran the UN safe zones, separated Bosniak men and teenage boys and summarily killed them off.

    It also happened in Georgia...specifically in the Abkhaz republic...where ethnic Georgians comprised almost half the people...and where they were murdered or driven out of their homes. Today, roughly 20 years after the Abkhaz and Russian forces started to cleanse the Georgians from Abkhazia, there are virtually no Georgians left.

    The point I'm making is, the world very seldom mobilizes to stop acts of genocide IF those acts do not specifically threaten them directly! The holocaust will almost certainly never happen in Germany again...but that's because of the sheer numbers of Germans who are ashamed of what was done in the name of their country.

    That is why Germans are rigid about these things!
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    Feb 28, 2011 9:18 AM GMT
    TrentGrad said
    jrunner25yeah, we have racist pricks running around glorifying slavery yet no ONE will get arrested for stating that... I get it, you want to pretend that Germany has some moral ground to protect but how about protecting a persons freedom of speech? isn't that the reason a lot of jews were sent to their death... because everyone was afraid to speak for fear of being incarcerated? hmmmmmm?


    Actually you don't get my point at all: Germany is ultra-sensitive to what happened, and freedom of speech is fine...provided you acknowledge that there are certain restrictions on that freedom.

    In Germany, you will not celebrate, re-create or deny the actions taken by the Nazis. Preface your "freedom of speech" with that vital consideration, and you can speak out to your hearts content!

    Before you sound off about this, consider that freedom of speech is limited, even in the good old USA: after all, if you make a claim about someone, and it harms their good name, free speech will not protect you from the ramifications that come from that.

    And "free speech" is not a significant consideration in why a lot of people (Jews, Gypsies, gays, communists, the disabled, trade unionists, etc...) were sent to their death. The sad truth is that most Germans did not raise their voices to the Nazis because they actually supported a lot of what the Nazis did: they rejuvenated the economy, brought glory by way of territorial expansion, united East Prussia and Austria under the German flag, protected ethnic Germans in other nations, and helped momentarily erase the humbling defeat following WWI that ravaged the nation.

    Most Germans bought into the Nazi line...that was why they didn't raise their voices to the Nazis!


    your point doesnt make sense. the gov't has a right to be sensitive towhat occurred. however, the nazi salute did no harm to anyone. its gross and ridiculous to think it would be funny but by no means should it be criminalized. our limitations of free speech have nothing to do with this argument outside of the fact that theres a limitation. our limitations have to do with protecting other people from harm. again, how does the nazi salute harm anyone but the german ego?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 28, 2011 9:20 AM GMT
    TrentGrad said
    jrunner25 said
    TrentGrad said
    5ebastian saidno... Im sure it has more to do with how the world views Germany after WWII. Something like that will never happen again because the world will not allow it. Why doesn't Germany demolish all artifacts from the Third Reich? That seems more blasphemous than a stupid salute.


    What are you talking about...something like that will never happen again?

    It has happened again, and again, and again!

    It happened in Cambodia.

    It happened in Afghanistan.

    It happened in Rwanda.

    It's happening in the Congo.

    And it's happened in other places too...like in Uganda, in Bosnia, in Georgia, apparently by all sides in Sri Lanka, and if you believe some of the people around here, in the occupied Palestinian territories as well.

    What artifacts from the Third Reich are you contending that Germany is preserving? Moreover, do you think it could be that those artifacts are not being destroyed because ultimately, Germany wants to be able to prove that the Holocaust really did happen, especially as the denial groups have increased in the past 20 years or so.


    i think people mean to say that it wont happen in the developed world again. as far as the developing world, well our dumb ass majority that live in our countries don't know their right from their left so you can't expect them to give a rat's ass about what goes on in countries which feel so distant and detached from their reality.


    Well, it's happened in Europe...right under the noses of the European Union. Over 200,000 people, primarily Bosniaks, were murdered during the Bosnian war, largely under the watch of the UN and NATO! Bosnian Serbs, when they overran the UN safe zones, separated Bosniak men and teenage boys and summarily killed them off.

    It also happened in Georgia...specifically in the Abkhaz republic...where ethnic Georgians comprised almost half the people...and where they were murdered or driven out of their homes. Today, roughly 20 years after the Abkhaz and Russian forces started to cleanse the Georgians from Abkhazia, there are virtually no Georgians left.

    The point I'm making is, the world very seldom mobilizes to stop acts of genocide IF those acts do not specifically threaten them directly! The holocaust will almost certainly never happen in Germany again...but that's because of the sheer numbers of Germans who are ashamed of what was done in the name of their country.

    That is why Germans are rigid about these things!


    hi, you must believe that because something is now, it must have been there before. how sad. last time i checked, Bosnia was a third world country 15 years ago when those wars were taking place.
  • TrentGrad

    Posts: 1541

    Feb 28, 2011 9:20 AM GMT
    Daedalus304 said
    5ebastian saidonce again open up a history book before you run your mouth like you got something important to say. Most Germans DID go along with it because of the conditions that Germany lived in after the first world war. Get your facts straight.


    Just to interject, I do believe that is what he said:
    TrentGrad
    "The sad truth is that most Germans did not raise their voices to the Nazis because they actually supported a lot of what the Nazis did: they rejuvenated the economy, brought glory by way of territorial expansion, united East Prussia and Austria under the German flag, protected ethnic Germans in other nations, and helped momentarily erase the humbling defeat following WWI that ravaged the nation."



    I'd like to think he was referring to one of the other posters.

    If 5ebastian was directing his remarks at me, thank you for pointing out to him what he must've missed! icon_smile.gif
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    Feb 28, 2011 9:29 AM GMT
    TrentGrad saidUm...well, I read that story...kinda scary how the police arrived within seconds to arrest him!


    He was doing it in front of the parliament. Of course there's always police around.
  • TrentGrad

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    Feb 28, 2011 9:33 AM GMT
    jrunner25hi, you must believe that because something is now, it must have been there before. how sad. last time i checked, Bosnia was a third world country 15 years ago when those wars were taking place.


    When was the last time you checked?

    Bosnia and Herzegovina was a middle ground republic in the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia- not as economically diversified as as the former Yugoslav republics of Croatia and Slovenia, but certainly not considered "third world"- it's economic output was in the same neighbourhood as Serbia's at the time.

    Hell, in 1984, it wasn't Zagreb, Ljubljana or Belgrade that hosted the Winter Olympics...it was Sarajevo...the capital of Bosnia and Herzegovina. Do you know of any third world cities that have played host to the Olympics???

    Bosnia's economy was shattered by the civil war. Hell, if you know anything about the "three worlds" concept, you will understand that your point is fundamentally inaccurate as Yugoslavia, of which it was a part prior to the civil war, was like the rest of the communist states: regarded as components of the 'second world.'
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    Feb 28, 2011 9:35 AM GMT
    she read wikipedia and now she thinks she knows shit. lol
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    Feb 28, 2011 9:47 AM GMT
    Saying Germany tries to ignore the past is just pure nonsense. During my 13 years of school I had at least 6 with lectures concerning ww2. Be it history, social studies or german. The topic is ubiquitious.

    And it is true, we still have the aggressive right-wing problem. And that is why those things are forbidden.

    And how could this not be a very emotional topic for us?

    My oldest relative I met, my grandmother, was 15 when the war ended. And yet today some people accuse me of what happened back then. "You're German? You don't look like a nazi to me." to quote someone from Ohio from just last week.

    How would you feel if many people would accuse you personally for the genocide of the Native American?