What are your thoughts on racism in the gay community?

  • barracuda68

    Posts: 66

    Mar 04, 2011 2:03 AM GMT
    Have a read and let me know what you think?

    http://www.terrylevine.com/2011/03/the-queer-case-of-racism-in-the-gay-community.html
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    Mar 04, 2011 2:06 AM GMT
    hardballz saidWhat are your thoughts on racism in the gay community?
    The same as my thoughts on racism in general: It's fucking stupid.
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    Mar 05, 2011 12:39 AM GMT
    This topic has been extensively--and tragically--discussed in the past on realjock.com. Actually, it resurfaces every few weeks, from what I can recall. I have never participated on those threads for the same reasons I tend to stay away from the political "discussions" in this website. That is, they don't resemble any type of logical discussion and often involve gratuitous exchange of insults, misinformation, and overt displays of insolence carefully designed to establish who can e-scream the loudest.

    I think the relationship between stigmatized identity and minority status is an interesting topic of discussion. Racial discrimination is no longer an institution in our society. However, the absence of institutionalism is not indicative of abolished racism. Indeed, racism is alive and omnipresent in our society.

    Homosexual minorities, particularly Blacks, face a dual challenge that influences the development of a positive homosexual identity. Homosexuality is vastly considered incompatible with the role and expectations set by the Black community in general. This lack of acceptance and affirmation often leads to social marginalization and progressive drifting from the nuclear sociocultural communal structure. When you add racial stereotyping and biased standards of beauty enforced by both the heterosexual and homosexual communities to the mix, it is not difficult to understand the lack of cohesion in the homosexual community.

    Sexual orientation and attraction are complex constructs. When someone indicates a "preference" or attraction toward a specific racial or ethnic group, it is important to understand--or at least attempt to understand--those self-imposed preferences in the context of sexual orientation and sexual attraction. What is the origin of that preference and is it a fixed essential part of human identity?

    Despite controversy, there is little evidence to support the hypothesis that attraction is genetically linked in the human brain in a way meaningful enough to cause a preferred identity fixation. The same is true of sexual orientation, despite how much people these days like to say that homosexuality is not a choice, but rather something people are born with (but that's another topic).

    While it may or may not be true that in utero events contribute to certain predispositions in terms of sexual identity (and we don't know if that's the case), sexual attraction is largely shaped by sociocultural aspects. In reality, both sexual orientation and attraction are particularly meaningful in a social realm because of the meaning sociocultural norms impose upon them.

    ...Anyway, I was bored and decided to type one thought. The link you posted is really a rant and a wishy-washy attempt to explain how wrong racial discrimination is. It ends with a pie-in-the-sky script about how society should behave. However, in my opinion, it contributes nothing to the debate. "We all have 'preferences' and that's certainly our right," the author of that post states. What an interesting way to end a post about what he sees are the harmful effects of bigotry. "Bigotry should be unacceptable, but we have a right to have preferences." I know that he was trying to make the point that even if a person harbors bigotry, there is no excuse to make others, for whom those feelings are harbored, feel inferior. But how does that shed light into this topic? Prejudice and bigotry are completely different things. A bigot who speaks no hate may continue to harbor prejudice without anyone knowing it. The more appropriate platform for debate would be how those preferences fit in the context of sexual orientation, attraction, sociocultural norms, and stigmatized identity.

    Given the countless previous posts regarding this issue and the virtual train-wrecks it often creates on this site, I don't think I'll be contributing anymore to this thread. There is a loud majority of posters on this site who are gifted when it comes to e-fights, but they simply lack the maturity to carry on fruitful debate regarding serious issues.

  • offshore

    Posts: 1294

    Mar 05, 2011 12:43 AM GMT
    It's fucking stupid and sad. But I'm not surprised.

    There's idiots in every aspect of human society, so the existing of gay racisits are to be expected.

    Still, fracking bigoted idiots.
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    Mar 05, 2011 12:44 AM GMT
    I think some racists are hot.
  • offshore

    Posts: 1294

    Mar 05, 2011 12:58 AM GMT
    That Grindr pic on the liked page may not indicate racism, but it does indicate TACTLESSNESS.

    See, If you are not attracted to Asians/ Blacks/ Aliens from Mars it's your own business, but why bother putting up those words?

    I mean, do the asians bloody flock to you? Are you that attracting to all the Black dudes they melt at the sight of you and want to stick to you like superglue?

    If you are not into them and *some* of them contact you, just ignor their message or tell them.

    To put up those words like terms and conditions of entry to an amusement park is so self certered.
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    Mar 05, 2011 1:06 AM GMT
    oh man if i had a penny for every time this happens... i would be playing the penny slots forever and not just one line but i would be pressing that button that plays all of the lines every spin. if you ever played that you'll know a dollar doesn't last that long.
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    Mar 05, 2011 1:14 AM GMT
    collegestuddhis whole post


    You are quite good at essays! Your post is, almost as if, copied and pasted from a scholarly article. You have a some good points about the reality of things. icon_wink.gif

    And I agree. Hate it or not, racism exists. Calling it preference is fine also. Now even if there is a law to make it a crime, it will STILL exist. (And there is). Life is too short to try and change people. I'd rather think that how we react to this 'racism' is the key. Some care. Some don't. Some just grow out of it.

    Once I've been told "You're an Asian. No one wants Asians." by an obviously cute white guy. (Usually that's how it happens i guess.) Let me tell ya, it sucks balls. I'm just glad I didn't become emotional and cut myself right then. icon_mad.gif So, yeah, I grow out of it. If I sense it, I'll stay away from it. No need to fix it.
  • offshore

    Posts: 1294

    Mar 05, 2011 1:15 AM GMT
    Dude we should start a campain of

    "A Penny for every Not Into Asians Profile", and hit Vegas afterwards.
  • barracuda68

    Posts: 66

    Mar 05, 2011 1:32 AM GMT
    collegestudd said "We all have 'preferences' and that's certainly our right," the author of that post states. What an interesting way to end a post about what he sees are the harmful effects of bigotry. "Bigotry should be unacceptable, but we have a right to have preferences."


    I think the difference between a preference and bigotry is that preference is based on characteristics that one isn't turned on by or finds attractive. Bigotry is discounting a person simply for who he is in totality. In other words, I might not like body hair or pointy noses or bitten fingernails or bad breath. Those are individual characteristics. But to say "I don't like you because you're Asian and all Asians are unattractive" is bigotry, plain and simple.

    But regardless or whether it's an acceptable preference or unacceptable bigotry, in neither case is it cool to demean the person.
  • barracuda68

    Posts: 66

    Mar 05, 2011 1:33 AM GMT
    offshore saidDude we should start a campain of

    "A Penny for every Not Into Asians Profile", and hit Vegas afterwards.


    We'd be rich biatch!
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    Mar 05, 2011 1:37 AM GMT
    Anyone who would turn down offshore, DDT8665 or AvadaKedavra (all of whom are just a pretty inside as they are on the surface) Must be both stupid and severely blind.

    icon_rolleyes.gif
  • tuffguyndc

    Posts: 4437

    Mar 05, 2011 1:46 AM GMT
    ok, i am so surprised to see that people are still surprised by racism. hello this america people. the civil right's movement was not that long ago people. which means just because you are gay doesn't mean that you can not be prejudice or racist too. hell i live in dc and it is amazing how many gay guys both black and white will only date inside there race. i do not buy into the concept that i only find one race attractive. beauty is beauty and if you can't get passed skin color than you need serious help. anyhow, i appreciate the guy trying to bring light to this but i see this type of stuff all the time. i am just surprised that when people like the poster put up threads like this people act so surprised or they say there you go stirring up trouble again.
    people get real issue was already there and the fact that people still get embarassed or angry when it is brought up proves my point. its people like poster that just bring it to light. thanks buddy
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    Mar 05, 2011 1:48 AM GMT
    kel.gif
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    Mar 05, 2011 2:02 AM GMT
    dekiruman saidAnyone who would turn down offshore, DDT8665 or AvadaKedavra (all of whom are just a pretty inside as they are on the surface) Must be both stupid and severely blind.

    icon_rolleyes.gif


    You changed it.... it used to say the three above... are you saying you'd reject "hardballz?"

    Mean.

    "Stupid and severely blind?" Really? Everyone has their own preference- just because it differs from your own doesn't mean you should attack them because of it.
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    Mar 05, 2011 2:24 AM GMT
    hardballz said
    I think the difference between a preference and bigotry is that preference is based on characteristics that one isn't turned on by or finds attractive. Bigotry is discounting a person simply for who he is in totality. In other words, I might not like body hair or pointy noses or bitten fingernails or bad breath. Those are individual characteristics. But to say "I don't like you because you're Asian and all Asians are unattractive" is bigotry, plain and simple.

    But regardless or whether it's an acceptable preference or unacceptable bigotry, in neither case is it cool to demean the person.


    You echo what the poster on the link said, which is that it is wrong to demean people because of their race. But that statement is boring and contributes nothing to the debate because most sane people would agree with it. However, you missed the entirety of my post because I don't think that discussing bigotry in the context of preference resolves anything. They are not the real source of controversy, but rather peripheral elements that are often substituted for the more complex issues, which I raised in my previous post. I suppose it is my fault you didn't get it because perhaps my words were not eloquent enough.

    Threads about racial discrimination among homosexuals tend to get derailed because people focus on the righteousness of rejecting bigotry. If someone calls another racist for having a particular "preference" a vicious cycle begins. First, it is difficult to prove racism because you don't know the other person's feelings. The accused rushes to point out that a charge of racism is misplaced because they are not bigots (A to B: "You're a bigot" --- B to A: "I'm not a bigot") and have a gazillion friends/relatives who happen to belong to the group being discussed. The accuser rushes to find support based on any statements or actions of the other person to prove beyond doubt that the accused is racist. People from both viewpoints chime in and the discussion spirals into a strange twist that revolves around negating racism based on sexual preference and proving bigotry based on preferences. But that contributes nothing to the discussion. It just perpetuates the stupid cycle that people love being a part of.


    hardballz saidBigotry is discounting a person simply for who he is in totality.


    Not really. Bigotry entails intolerance, negative attitudes and behavior toward something specific; generally speaking this is specifically related to race, religion, sexual orientation, or other similar things. An anti-semite, for example, will discriminate against a Jew not because of the "totality" of that person's character, but rather because of his membership in the Jewish faith. An anti-semite may meet someone he comes to like and hang out with. But when he learns that the new friend is Jewish, he will reject the other not because of the "totality" of his character. Religion is only one specific of many components of the person. Religion, sexual orientation, race, etc are integral parts of a person's character but they do not constitute a totality of that person's identity.


    hardballz saidto say "I don't like you because you're Asian and all Asians are unattractive" is bigotry, plain and simple.


    If that person harbors those feelings against a particular group, he or she will still be a bigot regardless of whether the words are spoken or not.
  • offshore

    Posts: 1294

    Mar 05, 2011 2:47 AM GMT
    A1BOT saidI think some racists are hot.


    Wait until you get the "Dark Skins blocked" from the one you think is hot.
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    Mar 05, 2011 2:53 AM GMT
    offshore said
    A1BOT saidI think some racists are hot.


    Wait until you get the "Dark Skins blocked" from the one you think is hot.


    ?
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    Mar 05, 2011 3:08 AM GMT
    collegestudd saidThis topic has been extensively--and tragically--discussed in the past on realjock.com. Actually, it resurfaces every few weeks, from what I can recall. I have never participated on those threads for the same reasons I tend to stay away from the political "discussions" in this website. That is, they don't resemble any type of logical discussion and often involve gratuitous exchange of insults, misinformation, and overt displays of insolence carefully designed to establish who can e-scream the loudest.


    while i think you make some good points in your post, i find in most of these threads about sexual racism someone has to always point out that it's been discussed ad nauseum, it's the worst topic ever, who cares, blah blah blah. i imagine the majority (if not all) of those people just feel guilty because they are party to the racism/bigotry/attraction preference (whatever you want to call it) being discussed. yes, this topic has been previously discussed, but so has "would you climb mt. kilimanjaro to lick the ear of the guy above, below, or between you." funny, i never find people complaining about those threads which "don't resemble any type of logical discussion."

    i've actually combed through a few of the old threads on sexual racism and the gay minority experience. i find that there is quite a bit of constructive discussion and diverse and rich stories from the experiences of gay black, asian, hispanic, and white RJ members. as an african american gay man who has felt socially isolated and ignored simply because of my ethnic background in the gay community, it's nice to read other experiences like my own as well as experiences that aren't like mine to simply make me feel better. sure, there is a bit of insult and silly fighting, but i find it's usually ignited by guys who want to dismiss the importance of such a topic.

    in answer to the original poster's question, i think the article is a thoughtful, interesting, at times, humorous piece told from the perspective of someone outside the gay minority circle. the article, for the most part, just brings up abstract and even real examples of racism (notably focused on the Asian community) and tries to convince the reader of its irony being that the racism occurs in a group that has already been so ostracized and oppressed throughout history. the author ends his argument vaguely by stating, "we all have preferences and that's certainly our right. but we don't have the right to make people feel inferior because they look different from us." i'm not sure by the end whether the authors feels its okay to "prefer" white men, but not "prefer" asian men (or hispanic, black, etc.) as long as you don't state your preference to others in order to preserve their feelings? if this is the case, then i feel that the author is as much the problem as the guy he points out on Grindr. just because you don't state your racially discriminating preference, doesn't make you any less of a racist.

    unfortunately, many guys on RJ and around the world have racially discriminating preferences based on physical looks, perceived intellectual capacity, perceived socioeconomic status, health status, previous experience(s). fortunately, there are a few that don't make their dating decisions based on the color of one's skin or ethnic stereotypes that still exist in our society. perhaps, one day our small community can rise above the ineptitude of silent racism and show the rest of the world "the queer case of a united human race." until then, one can dream or at least write about it a few more times. ;)
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    Mar 05, 2011 3:12 AM GMT
    A1BOT said
    dekiruman saidAnyone who would turn down offshore, DDT8665 or AvadaKedavra (all of whom are just a pretty inside as they are on the surface) Must be both stupid and severely blind.

    icon_rolleyes.gif


    You changed it.... it used to say the three above... are you saying you'd reject "hardballz?"

    Mean.

    "Stupid and severely blind?" Really? Everyone has their own preference- just because it differs from your own doesn't mean you should attack them because of it.


    lol iwoulnt reject hardballz at all haha. We just commented at the same time and the three guys i was trying to comment on are all my buddies icon_razz.gif I'm sure HB is a cool dude too though
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    Mar 05, 2011 3:13 AM GMT
    A1BOT said
    offshore said
    A1BOT saidI think some racists are hot.


    Wait until you get the "Dark Skins blocked" from the one you think is hot.


    ?


    i think wat offshore tries to say is that it only really hurts when you get rejected from the one you like because of your skin/race.

    I'm sure A1BOT was jokin thou
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    Mar 05, 2011 3:17 AM GMT
    I've seen racism from all angles in the gay community. But on the other hand, I think anyone is entitled to go for whatever race they want sexually. Being treated equally does not include being forced to have sex with someone you're not attracted to. And if you disagree with my statement then you'd better be bisexual, otherwise I'll accuse you of being sexually sexist.icon_cool.gif
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    Mar 05, 2011 3:18 AM GMT
    hardballz said
    offshore saidDude we should start a campain of

    "A Penny for every Not Into Asians Profile", and hit Vegas afterwards.


    We'd be rich biatch!


    hellz yes
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    Mar 05, 2011 3:19 AM GMT
    Rasicm is everywhere...doesnt exclude the gay community.
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    Mar 05, 2011 3:20 AM GMT
    AvadaKedavra said
    hardballz said
    offshore saidDude we should start a campain of

    "A Penny for every Not Into Asians Profile", and hit Vegas afterwards.


    We'd be rich biatch!


    hellz yes


    I said on my grindr profile once "I wish there's a better block feature so I could block all these fugly white guys" and so many white people got mad at me.