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  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 04, 2011 7:28 AM GMT
    It's over. It was mutual.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 04, 2011 7:51 AM GMT
    Well brother, I am going to come at you from my experience in a 27 year straight marriage. Love is love - gay or straight. Firstly it sounds like you and your partner are on two dif islands looking for a passing ship, but not looking at each other.

    From what you have said here, i just see no commonality in the realtionship and although you keep mentioning faithfulness, that will not keep a partnership together alone.

    There has to be a very deeply routed communication problem here and communication is absolutely and postively the biggest key to success. Sex or no sex, if you can't talk things out you both end up isolated from each other and begin drifting farther apart.

    I get the feeling here that maybe your partner feels, from his conversation with your mutual friend, that he has made a mistake getting into the relationship but sees enough good in it ,for whatever reason, to continue. You on the other hand seem to be paddling the canoe alone and no matter how hard you do, without the help of your partner, you are doomed.

    You don't mention talking seriously about this and that makes me assume that there is an avoidance issue. I can guarantee that without sitting down and opening up the can for both of you to talk, you will either stay in stagnation or you will split.

    If you value this relationship, then make the move to tell him at a time that will allow you both to sit at length and open up. You will both be amazed at how clearing the air can bring new life and especially understanding into this.

    If that doesn't seem to work, then my next step is to seek counselling for both of you together. Both must be willing to want to make this work...if one partner isn't, then sadly I feel it is time to pull the plug and recover your lives............all the best spirits you way..............Keith
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    Mar 04, 2011 11:50 AM GMT
    Both of you need to sit down and communicate. Communication is a key.
  • massbuildah

    Posts: 276

    Mar 04, 2011 11:58 AM GMT
    8 years?! Wow and it sounds like in those 8 years the communication has never really happened. Start now, be open, be honest, just start by saying something. maybe it's time to end it but at least if you shar your thoughts with each other you'll end it in a good place.
  • Chunner

    Posts: 87

    Mar 04, 2011 12:06 PM GMT
    I think you should see a counselor because this sounds a lot like my past relationship, however I was your boyfriend who was upset and drank on the weekends to deal with my boyfriends "crap" as you put it. However he started drinking with me and he was a angry drunk so we began to fight, BAD, so I had to end it. If youre not having horrible fights I think its fixable or at least the exploration of your relationship will make you feel 9okay if you end it.
  • Ironman4U

    Posts: 738

    Mar 04, 2011 12:09 PM GMT
    I agree that communication is key, but I also sense from what you have shared that he's not the kind of guy that is going to communicate openly or at the very least enjoy the process. In fact, he will probably do whatever he can to avoid it or minimize it.

    There definitely is a pattern, as you said of "sweeping things under the rug" and not addressing them head on. The problem with that approach is that what you sweep, while out of site for now, never really goes away. And eventually, you have so much crap under the rug that you're going to have to deal with it. And when you do, it's going to be bigger and uglier.

    It's great that you have a trusting relationship but I think you're paying a pretty steep price for that security blanket. No sex, no communication, dealing with him drinking, not having a deep emotional connection, etc, etc.

    Life is short and the person you spend it with should be someone that you're excited to be with. It doesn't sound like that is going to happen, with or without counseling. My perspective is move on and find a relationship that will give you what you're looking for and someone that you can give back to based on what you've learned in this relationship.

    It can be extremely hard to leave someone you love. I've done it twice (both 15 year relationships), but ultimately I've had no regrets because I needed something that I couldn't get in the relationships I was in. Find peace with what will make you happy and fulfilled and then go get it. Good luck.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 04, 2011 12:14 PM GMT
    Wow, can't believe I read all that without getting bored and distracted- kudos =].

    OK, in response, my opinion:

    I think you should show your BF this thread. Let him read your post and then have an in depth and completely honest conversation about your relationship and what you both want from each other at this point, if anything at all. Tell him to stop trying to do what he thinks is the right thing or the obligation, but to tell you what he REALLY wants and why he is so unhappy. What will make him happier?

    Perhaps he doesn't know. Or says he doesn't (if he is afraid of hurting you or is unable to verbalise the root of the emotion). If this is the case:

    I think it might be helpful if you two went on a temporary break. Say 4/6 weeks or so. Go out with friends, live seperately (if this is possible?), try new things, meet new people. Maybe try casual sex with another person to see if the lack of sex really is an important issue for you both- does it awaken the passion for sex (maybe this particular step isn't for you both, but discuss it to find out)? Keep contact with him during the break to a minimum.

    If at the end of this period either of you feel that you're happier with the change, ask yourselves why this is. If either of you feel relief/happier after the break, your relationship may have come to a natural conclusion. Be great friends and find what you both need in others that you won't get from each other. Be honest.

    If this isn't the case, and you both find after the break that the relationship really is worth fighting for, get and stay in couples counselling (get somebody recommended), give it your best shot.

    I wish you both the best.
  • shawn06

    Posts: 337

    Mar 04, 2011 12:46 PM GMT
    I would not consider ending it yet, there are a bunch of avenues to take right now and yea it sounds bad but it could be a lot worse. The first thing you need to do is analyze your relationship and your feelings for him, just think about everything you been through with him and what things would be like without him. It takes a looong time to recover from any relationship with someone you truly love.

    First no emotion does not mean anything. I myself show little emotion in many situations as I simply am not an emotional person. Does not mean I don't love someone, I often express it differently; I'm a thinker, I think about every little decision before it is made and often times instead of expressing my feelings I think of how I feel and keep it to myself.

    Now come up with a plan as how you should approach him for a talk. Don't simply go in and start describing the issues, set things up right and be careful not to set off an argument. Often times when we have these long talks they end up in a heated argument and only set you back so go in prepared, speak your mind but take caution. Don't lie about anything and put everything on the table, also reassure him how much you love him and ask what to do to make things better.

    Think about your sexual relationship too, sex should not define a relationship but it is important. If 7 is the max number for last year it probably means the connection is starting to diminish. Bring this up in conversation, figure out why you guys aren't doing it. If you can fix this you might help fix your problems as everyone knows sexual frustration can lead to many things that hinder a relationship.

    If all of this fails consider counseling and get some advice as to where to go next. If that even fails and no matter what you do things continue to go downward, maybe(keyword) consider a break. Not a break up, but a little time away from eachother without seeing other people. Sometimes time apart helps you both to realize how shitty life is without eachother and can set a spark off for the relationship but please save this for a last resort. Now I'm no professional so take what I and what everyone else here says with a grain of salt, I only speak of personal experience as to what I have done or wish I would have done in the past.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 04, 2011 12:58 PM GMT
    Agree with the suggestion to show him the thread, then give him a few days to digest what he read, then talk.
  • wander2340

    Posts: 176

    Mar 04, 2011 1:04 PM GMT
    I agree with everyone else in here. You have to find a way to discuss all these issues with each other. I especially love what Sage said about having him read what you wrote. That will open up the communications really fast :-)

    My man and I are total opposites in pretty much everything. It has always been a source of conflict. Early on in relationship we went on a few leadership retreats together. All together it probably only added up to about 9 days spread out over a 2 year period. During this time we learned invaluable tools for communicating, understanding and caring for each other. Fast forward 8 years and our relationship is stronger than ever.

    There are tons of organizations that host these events. Tony Robbins does some decent stuff. Many friends have raved about the Forum. My personal favorite is Rapport Leadership in Nevada (the Power Communications class is what I'm thinking would be best for you).

  • cityguy39

    Posts: 967

    Mar 04, 2011 1:20 PM GMT
    You two need to really sit down and talk. It sounds like both of you are on different pages in the relationship.
  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Mar 04, 2011 1:22 PM GMT
    Hey, thanks for taking the time to really discuss this with us, opening up and being clear most of the issues involved.

    Man, listening to the conversation last Thanksgiving night was very rough. I'm not sure how I would have reacted after that alone! I absolutely agree with what others have said... you must talk about how you both feel. Sometimes the reason many don't is they are afraid of the outcome. You must be prepared for the "result" to be your breakup....... but you must talk and be clear how you feel about him, whats happened..... and what you want. What do you really want?

    Anytime I read something like this I pay attention. My partner and I have been involved for 12.5 years and mostly a long distance relationship.
    We started abruptly, I was absolutely clueless in the beginning, not out
    (hell I hadn't even accepted who I was sexually), he tried to break up with me, but we made it work. However we DO have quite a bit in common and have worked together on a variety of considerations including my (it is really "our") house. Fitness was never a part of our "common" interests, but that has recently changed as he is delving into physical fitness (but more from necessity according to him, not because he wants to).
    We do have issues, but have made it work. We also love each other very much and he knows how I feel.

    It sounds like you are at that point when things will either continue.. or fail.
    Think carefully about what you want to say and certainly don't turn it into
    a "your the one at fault" kind of thing. Tell him how you feel and if he isn't
    "emotional", then at least get him to the conversation table based on
    the "logic" of needing to get it worked out. You both deserve to be happy.... and you know I wish you only the best. You certainly deserve it.
  • gymlocker

    Posts: 159

    Mar 04, 2011 1:35 PM GMT
    Read or show him this letter. If you can't talk to him about it, or he can't talk to you about it, then you don't belong together. Communication is the glue in a relationship.
    You don't need to talk about this with your friends, or post it on an internet site to resolve your problems. Discuss the problems with him. Chances are, neither of you knows exactly how the other one really feels. None of the differences you mentioned are insurmountable. But you need to be able to communicate them.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 04, 2011 1:48 PM GMT
    Okay, everyone is mentioning how communication is the key. But, honestly, do you guys know how almost impossible it is to communicate when you havent for so long? I went through a 5 year relationship without communicating (what we though was communicating, apparently was not) and when we both wanted to communicate, we didnt know how. It seemed to weird, foreign and alien. Eventually it did end. the relationship. so yes, communication is the ultimate key. but getting to understand each other to get communication right, comes first. and that is not easy. youd have to almost break down and bare your soul to each other to get that message across. And this is not an easy task, i should know. You sound like you and your man have a great persopnality but I think when you mention you trust each other, that trust is incomplete. He speaks behind your back about his problems and you come here to speak of yours... maybe trust is also an issue? I dont know, im an outsider. hope you manage to sort you relationship out. I really feel this hits close to home for me as I went through the same.
    bb
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 04, 2011 2:51 PM GMT
    First, I'd like you to know that you wrote a supremely expressive post--really one of the best I've read on RJ. I felt the pain, the angst, the confusion, the vacillation, the love, the emptiness, the helplessnes, the optimism--all of it. You certainly did an impressive job.

    I think relationships are, in general, difficult. They require tending to. We'd like for them to be easy and uncomplicated, but sometimes issues do arise regardless of how perfect the relationship may appear to be, and we simply can't sweep those issues under the rug. We need to confront those issues head-on and address what's bothering the parties involved. No relationship is perfect--and there never will be one. After all, we're talking about two different individuals--not carbon copies of each other. And, if they were carbon copies, wouldn't that be sad and boring?

    I think of my relationship as double sculling or rowing without a finish line. The parties involved are always moving in synchronicity, never stopping, always finessing their technique, feeling the movement of the water and the wind, making every stroke as efficient and powerful as possible, compensating for each other if necessary--but always with an eye on the prize. The only difference is, unlike double sculling, there is never a finish line in relationships. There can't be a finish line, and no one should expect one. Come to think of it, a finish line signals the end of the race. A living, breathing relationship NEVER crosses the finish line. The parties involved have to keep moving, improving, feeling each other. This is what you need to do. Keep working on it with your partner. You cannot do it alone.

    I wish you the very best of luck. I can feel it in my heart that your relationshp is going to work out. Hang in there.

    [url][/url]
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 04, 2011 3:16 PM GMT
    Like Kieth and other have said, you really need to open up a dialogue with him. Sweeping problems under the rug won't solve anything because, the dirt and dust is still there.

    You and your partner maybe should see a couples therapist and see if you can work things out.

    Not to sound negative but to be in a relationship without the affectionate and intimacy you crave from your partner is unhealthy.

    I really do hope things work out for you!!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 04, 2011 3:34 PM GMT
    rider said
    We also really never argue, just sweep it under the rug till it doesn't hurt so much, but I have let him know repeatedly when something I see as a problem should be focused on, and maybe changed.


    Homowardbound said
    There has to be a very deeply routed communication problem here and communication is absolutely and postively the biggest key to success. Sex or no sex, if you can't talk things out you both end up isolated from each other and begin drifting farther apart.

    If you value this relationship, then make the move to tell him at a time that will allow you both to sit at length and open up. You will both be amazed at how clearing the air can bring new life and especially understanding into this.


    Turin saidBoth of you need to sit down and communicate. Communication is a key.


    gymlocker saidRead or show him this letter. If you can't talk to him about it, or he can't talk to you about it, then you don't belong together. Communication is the glue in a relationship.
    You don't need to talk about this with your friends, or post it on an internet site to resolve your problems. Discuss the problems with him. Chances are, neither of you knows exactly how the other one really feels. None of the differences you mentioned are insurmountable. But you need to be able to communicate them.



    I hope you see the theme here. All great comments/suggestions. If you don't both sit down and open up completely, you'll never be fulfilled. Perhaps it will lead to recognizing that it's not going to work, perhaps it will lead to new and exciting ways of developing what you have. You'll never know until you talk and until then, only resentment will build!

    Talk guys, talk!
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    Mar 04, 2011 3:35 PM GMT
    Homowardbound saidWell brother, I am going to come at you from my experience in a 27 year straight marriage. Love is love - gay or straight. Firstly it sounds like you and your partner are on two dif islands looking for a passing ship, but not looking at each other.

    ...my next step is to seek counselling for both of you together. Both must be willing to want to make this work...if one partner isn't, then sadly I feel it is time to pull the plug and recover your lives............all the best spirits you way..............Keith

    Agree, and with much of what has been written previously. Wonderful advice guys, and a credit to you all.

    There are 2 common sayings that used to be popular in the US: birds of a feather flock together, and opposites attract. Except -- they contradict each other. So which is it, in human relationships?

    Both, in my opinion. You are birds of a feather when it comes to shared interests, and opposites when it comes to the talents you bring to the relationship. Together you make a team, covering all the bases, stronger than the individual guys are alone, able to face the challenges of a complex & technological world.

    How does that describe the OP and his partner? Sounds like it may be a mismatch. Neither seems like a bad guy (and we hear lots of those stories here), but this may be a bad fit, their inherent niceness & decency having kept them together for so long.

    As Homowardbound & others have said, some counseling and third-party evaluation is needed here. Salvageable? Perhaps. Worth the effort after 8 years. Two apparently decent guys who deserve the best that life has to offer. Let's hope they find it, together or apart.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 04, 2011 7:23 PM GMT
    There is some really good advice here. Ironman4U is dead on. My Guy is not a talker and almost refuses to speak what truly on his mind (unless drunk)

    The more i read the advice on here, the more I am seeing "communication"... I can't teach him how to communicate, and he hasn't yet learned it on his own.
    Council isn't an option either. I have brought that up a couple times, he agree's counciling may help, but he won't agree to it as he works in the medical field and is know by most of the regions health and phsyc care profesionals and doesn't want them to know as he works with them on a regular basis.

    I know communication is needed. I just don't know how to go about doing it. It's not so much sitting down and talking about whats going on, it is putting it in a way that isn't going to let it slide, or piss him off.

    I take my blame where I should. If i screw up, I know, and do what i can to make up for it. He on the other hand doesn't want to admit he ever does anything wrong. I;m not a very smart man when it comes to being a "wordsmith", I say whats on my mind... but if i come at him in a very passive way about it, then he can easily defend his actions. If i come on to strong, he walks away and says "I can't deal with you, when your like this".... it's like a lose lose situation when we do rarley try to talk about issues.


    I feel I may be the only one really wanting to fix the relationship.
    We love each other, but maybe we shouldn't be in this relationship....

    However, I am going to try to talk about all this to him. If he is resistant, then I will know that it's pointless to continue this any longer.

    I don't know what he's thinking, but I think this is the right time to be strong and face it. It is my birthday this weekend, and I keep thinking I owe it to my self to know one way or another before I start another year.

    I will keep you all posted on what come from it. I hope to say, we figured it out and are going to give it our all, but I am prepared to say, I am to tired to keep this up if it's not going to change.

    Hope for the best, prepare for the worst....right?

    Any good jobs where you are? Because I know if we do end it, and I stay in this town, we will just get back together again and wind up in the same boat, and I will be back here in another year spouting the same stuff.

    I'm a mess right now, but something's gotta give!

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 04, 2011 7:34 PM GMT
    Sage suggested I should let him read this post... I wish I could. If he even knew I had this login would be the end of it. He's been cheated on in past relationships, and would think thats what I am trying to do. I know its wrong to have this while in our relationship as I fully agreed to not be online so he would not have to worry. but I am desparate and need a sounding board that didn't know me from adam.

    I do have my orginal post saved in a word doc, but I think he's smart enough and knows me well enought to know that I wouldn't just write that in the way I did, unless I was communicating it out.

    Its really the best choice to let him read what I have said here, it's comprehensive and detailed and about as unbaised as I could be, but it would be a bullet to end it in our case.

    If you can't tell I have alot of back and forth... I have alot of feelings LOL. maybe to many.




  • neosyllogy

    Posts: 1714

    Mar 04, 2011 7:43 PM GMT
    Maybe he loves you, but isn't in love with you...
    I was in a multi-year relationship like this, on the opposite side as you're on.
    It's hard to tell the person you don't want to be with them. You want to protect them, deep down though, you resent the relationship. You resent having to be there for (in your mind) them.
    If that is the case then I doubt you can salvage it (though, heck, what do I know; people do lots of things).
    I think you need to ask yourself that question, not "does he love me?" but is he "in love with me?".
    If he's not you need to bring it up and you probably need to leave. He may not have what it takes to leave you. Indeed, if, as you say, he consistently sees himself as faultless that would be consistent with the 'in it for you' model: it can be hard to see yourself as too much at fault in some regards when the entire relationship is a sacrifice from your perspective.

    Regardless, you need to approach him seriously, lovingly, and CALMLY. It's hard, but if he's there partly for you, then he's not going to be able to discuss things honestly if he knows honesty is going to hurt you. If he spent 8-ish years unfulfilled, it's probably not going to change during one conversation (might, but don't count on it).

    This is probably not what you want to hear, but possibly true. Also, mention what you overheard. Do NOT, I repeat NOT, accuse him (in fact, apologize for eavesdropping), but let him know you heard it since, regardless, you're not going to get resolution until it's addressed.

    (Also, it's hard not to note that all of your reasons for staying in the relationship mostly concern you, not him. You may have become dependent and need to move on.)
  • metta

    Posts: 39144

    Mar 04, 2011 7:53 PM GMT
    Turin saidBoth of you need to sit down and communicate. Communication is a key.



    +2
    & be honest with each other....no games....tell each other in a caring, non-threatening way...what each other are feeling/thinking. Keeping it bottled up is not going to help. Both of you need to open up to each other and if you both decide that you are willing to work on it, then consider getting counseling. Otherwise, an amicable breakup may be the best alternative.

    I don't think that most of the differences you mention are necessarily a big issue. Sometimes that can be a positive thing in a relationship (personal or business) as long as both are willing to be flexible and be willing to sometimes do things for the other person that would not necessarily be their first choice.
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    Mar 04, 2011 8:28 PM GMT
    neosyllogy saidMaybe he loves you, but isn't in love with you...
    I was in a multi-year relationship like this, on the opposite side as you're on.
    It's hard to tell the person you don't want to be with them. You want to protect them, deep down though, you resent the relationship. You resent having to be there for (in your mind) them.
    If that is the case then I doubt you can salvage it (though, heck, what do I know; people do lots of things).
    I think you need to ask yourself that question, not "does he love me?" but is he "in love with me?".
    If he's not you need to bring it up and you probably need to leave. He may not have what it takes to leave you. Indeed, if, as you say, he consistently sees himself as faultless that would be consistent with the 'in it for you' model: it can be hard to see yourself as too much at fault in some regards when the entire relationship is a sacrifice from your perspective.

    Regardless, you need to approach him seriously, lovingly, and CALMLY. It's hard, but if he's there partly for you, then he's not going to be able to discuss things honestly if he knows honesty is going to hurt you. If he spent 8-ish years unfulfilled, it's probably not going to change during one conversation (might, but don't count on it).

    This is probably not what you want to hear, but possibly true. Also, mention what you overheard. Do NOT, I repeat NOT, accuse him (in fact, apologize for eavesdropping), but let him know you heard it since, regardless, you're not going to get resolution until it's addressed.

    (Also, it's hard not to note that all of your reasons for staying in the relationship mostly concern you, not him. You may have become dependent and need to move on.)



    That's a pretty sound advice neo...

    I wish I could hug and say it'll be alright...But I think you also know in your heart that he no longer loves you the way you want him to...
    Oh just because he's book smart doesn't mean he can passively manipulate an argument. That's a pretty low in my view of it.

    May I suggest that you start to look at options of finding a place of your own?? Its really admirable that you improved and cleaned up your act for the sake of your lover..Use that same concept and forge your own path. Its not going to be an easy one but you have my and other peoples support here.

    *hugs*

    Be brave



  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 05, 2011 1:13 AM GMT
    Wow. Reading your post, I immediately thought you are looking for permission to break up.
    Is that what you truly want?
    If you close your eyes and imagine your life five years from now, do you still see yourself with him? Do you see yourself with someone else?

    Basically you are wondering what to do about your partner of eight years, the one who supported you, and the one that you care about, but don't feel connected to.
    Not being able to communicate is a huge deal-breaker. Without communication, you aren't able to relate to your partner, or express your concerns about him or you.

    I'm not sure how going for counseling is off the table, though. Regardless if the therapist know you socially, anything you say should be said in confidence. If you want to work things out with your partner, finding a qualified professional to help you through this time would seem to be highly important.

    Good luck.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 05, 2011 1:53 AM GMT
    You won't know what you got till it's gone... do you really want to know?