Wisconsin voters prefer a compromise solution

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Mar 06, 2011 6:07 AM GMT
    A new survey by a research firm billing itself as "Wisconsin's foremost free-market policy think tank" has found that 65% of Winconsin(ites?) prefer that Gov. Walker approach negotiations with a compromise in mind. Only a third, 33%, prefer that he hold the line.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/04/wpri-poll-wisconsin-wants_n_831652.html
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Mar 06, 2011 7:59 AM GMT
    I think the Democrats should stop hiding out in Illinois and get back to representing their constituents. A democracy doesn't work when elected officials can't face their minority status. They need to suck it up and work towards winning the next election with better candidates and ideas.

    I think Walker should just try to balance the current budget and worry about how to handle future budgets when a less contentious atmosphere returns. That means coming to an agreement about the pay and benefit cuts and deferring the collective bargaining question for another time. In general, the public unions are on the defensive in many states as their pay and benefits face increasing scrutiny. I just have a feeling their political influence has already declined without removing collective bargaining privileges.

  • TrentGrad

    Posts: 1541

    Mar 06, 2011 8:36 AM GMT
    boydroid saidI think the Democrats should stop hiding out in Illinois and get back to representing their constituents. A democracy doesn't work when elected officials can't face their minority status. They need to suck it up and work towards winning the next election with better candidates and ideas.

    I think Walker should just try to balance the current budget and worry about how to handle future budgets when a less contentious atmosphere returns. That means coming to an agreement about the pay and benefit cuts and deferring the collective bargaining question for another time. In general, the public unions are on the defensive in many states as their pay and benefits face increasing scrutiny. I just have a feeling their political influence has already declined without removing collective bargaining privileges.



    The atmosphere was created by Scott Walker himself...the Unions had in essence given in on wage and benefit cuts to help balance the books. It was Walker who, amongst other things, insisted on annual recertification votes, and limited the collective bargaining to bargaining for wages only.

    Even that was done in a very slimey way: the Unions could bargain for wages, but the most they could negotiate was for any future wage increases to match the rate of inflation. This in and of itself suggests that there would be no real wage increases...rather, public workers' incomes would stagnate.

    Of course when you completely emasculate a Union, and then require it to ask it's members if they wish to pay Union dues to something that lacks the power to negotiate for better wages, benefits and working conditions on their behalf, you are all but eliminating the Union by decree!

    This had nothing to do with the "political influence" wielded by Unions, for over the past 30 years, the actual percentage of Americans who are part of Unions has been cut nearly in half: this was all about a dog serving his wealthy benefactors.

    It's amazing, the amount of political clout that the wealthy and business carry over the democratic system. Seemingly lost in the whole phoney phone call that was leaked to the public was the thought that Scott Walker was taking a phone call from a man who he thought was a significant campaign contributor, and talking about governing strategy with the faux-individual.

    That in and of itself should unsettle even those who support the Republicans. Of course, I wouldn't expect it to unsettle mocktwinkie or people like him...he's all but suggested that an oligarch is preferable to a democracy, because apparently people are justified in acting within their own selfish interests when it comes to cutting throats to make money...but they are not within their own selfish interests when it comes to voting!

    I will hand it to Republicans...they seem to have the killer instinct when it comes to raking powerful Democrats over the coals: remember the impeachment of Bill Clinton? It was destined not to succeed, but they still subjected Clinton to the shame of having to go through that, simply because they could!

    That phone call, fake though it may have been, was actually a glaring indictment of a corrupt political system in which those with money have much greater access to "elected" officials than everyone else! We all know that the wealthy do get special treatment...but rarely is it so obviously displayed for everyone to see!

    That Scott Walker has launched a war against the middle class public servants, in the dying days of a recession in which the middle class were the biggest losers of all should prompt a much more fiercesome response from Democrats from coast to coast!

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Mar 06, 2011 9:49 AM GMT
    I'm not trying to defend Scott Walker. I'm not really interested in discussing him since those who dislike him have had ample opportunity in other threads to lob their tomatoes. I was just trying to formulate what a compromise could look like. Namely, democrats returning to fulfill their responsibilities, the governor deferring the collective bargaining element of the bill, everyone trying to balance the current budget first and foremost. If we want to talk about phone calls and impeachment and re-hash stuff like that or have another proxy Republican vs. Democrat war, then I'll take my leave.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Mar 06, 2011 11:24 AM GMT
    boydroid saidI'm not trying to defend Scott Walker. I'm not really interested in discussing him since those who dislike him have had ample opportunity in other threads to lob their tomatoes. I was just trying to formulate what a compromise could look like. Namely, democrats returning to fulfill their responsibilities, the governor deferring the collective bargaining element of the bill, everyone trying to balance the current budget first and foremost. If we want to talk about phone calls and impeachment and re-hash stuff like that or have another proxy Republican vs. Democrat war, then I'll take my leave.


    Hasn't Walker said repeatedly that there'll be no compromise for him? If the Democrats come back, that's the end of collective bargaining for the unions, no matter what else they accept (and I think they've accepted everything else). Walker won't defer anything. That's what he's said again and again.

    IIRC, he's said he won't even discuss it. If the Democrats come back, he won't meet with them to discuss possible compromises.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Mar 06, 2011 1:18 PM GMT
    boydroid said

    I think Walker should just try to balance the current budget and worry about how to handle future budgets when a less contentious atmosphere returns.

    That wont happen until a new governor is in place. Wisconsinites have lost all credibility with Walker.
  • rnch

    Posts: 11524

    Mar 06, 2011 2:41 PM GMT
    TropicalMark said
    boydroid said

    I think Walker should just try to balance the current budget and worry about how to handle future budgets when a less contentious atmosphere returns.

    That wont happen until a new governor is in place. Wisconsinites have lost all credibility with Walker.



    soon the "Recall Walker" bumper stickers, billboard signs and petitions will begin to appear.

    icon_idea.gif
  • rnch

    Posts: 11524

    Mar 06, 2011 3:20 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    theatrengym said
    Hasn't Walker said repeatedly that there'll be no compromise for him? If the Democrats come back, that's the end of collective bargaining for the unions, no matter what else they accept (and I think they've accepted everything else). Walker won't defer anything. That's what he's said again and again.


    So what?...


    is this the southbeach jane version of speaker of the house boehner's quote "so be it" ?
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Mar 06, 2011 3:22 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    boydroid saidI think the Democrats should stop hiding out in Illinois and get back to representing their constituents. A democracy doesn't work when elected officials can't face their minority status. They need to suck it up and work towards winning the next election with better candidates and ideas.


    An excellent point.

    One which the liberals on here will completely fail to understand as they continue to defend the AWOL Democrats.


    Sorry Bub

    Why is this different than the republicans in congress blocking anything and. Everything coming down the pike just so they can hold the Senate at a stalemate?

    And as far as stopping the opposition from gaining a quorum this method has been used forever a century
    Abraham Lincoln jumped out of a window once when he was a legislator to prevent the opposition from gaining a quorum
    Sorry .... This is just one way that democracy works
    And work it does
    You've seen the public's perception on this change
    The longer the democrats stay away the more likely the republicans get booted and booted good in 2012
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Mar 06, 2011 4:37 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    GQjock said
    Sorry Bub

    Why is this different than the republicans in congress blocking anything and. Everything coming down the pike just so they can hold the Senate at a stalemate?




    Thank you for proving my point.


    Ah and because you deliberately left out the rest of my statement you proved mine
    So it is I who needs to thank you icon_wink.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Mar 06, 2011 4:47 PM GMT
    The Dems flight was a perfectly legal parlimentary procedure (no rules against it) to stall the process long enough to give the opposition to the bill time to organize an effective showing of how Wisconsinites feel about the issues, rather than let a governor and cohorts push a radical change in the status quo thru the legislature.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Mar 06, 2011 6:17 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    Caslon17000 saidThe Dems flight was a perfectly legal parlimentary procedure (no rules against it) to stall the process


    In my opinion, this is an act of sabotage against the legislative process, as it is being done outside the arena of the legislative process, i.e. the state house.

    In an orderly society, the legislative process - and all the procedures that it comprises which yes, include fillibusters if allowed under the rules - must take place in the halls of government.

    By fleeing the state, the Wisconsin Democrat Senators are most certainly acting to sabotage the affairs of the government.




    And that's all it is. Your opinion. Thankfully, you don't vote in WI and once the electorate has recalled the 8 Republicans that they can. Walker's agenda will be DOA. icon_smile.gif
  • tazzari

    Posts: 2929

    Mar 06, 2011 7:13 PM GMT
    QUOTE AUTHOR GOES HERE65% of Winconsin(ites?) prefer that Gov. Walker approach negotiations with a compromise in mind


    Well, DUH!

    Most Americans are grown-ups who realize that politics is the art of finding a way we can all work with, which, yes, means some compromise.

    As long as politicians continue to define politics as winner-take-all and to hell with the losers - we will continue to have a non-productive politics which is not far from kicking sand in eachothers' eyes and/or taking our toys and going home.

    We're all in this together, and this country is as much mine as it is yours. Now we need to act like it.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Mar 06, 2011 9:13 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said

    Since 99% of the people of Wisconsin (this is according to all the liberal polls that are cited here) disagree with Walker and side with the Democrats and the unions, they'll put Democrats back in power at the next election and reinstate these "God-given rights."

    Quit lying liar.. find a poll that indicates 99% or wear the liar label. (kinda like the union label)
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Mar 06, 2011 9:32 PM GMT
    This is an Over reach if there ever was one

    .... and now Scooter is acting just the way republicans usually act
    when the tide is against them
    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRK670iA0XMvWp7LH1v4ej

    Make believe people's voices don't matter
    But they do
    and what this has served to do is wake people up
    There's No Way this man is going to be re-elected ... if he survives a possible recall ... at all
    The best thing this has done is make people realize that Unions aren't the evil that the republicans have made them out to be
    .... and that has come and served to bite them right in the Bloomin' Arse icon_cool.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Mar 07, 2011 1:16 AM GMT
    I don't think the quorum rules were intended to be used this way. I also don't think the filibuster was intended to be used the way that it has been used recently. At least filibustering requires voting to close debate or not and being present for any potential compromises and for work on other pieces of legislation. I don't think Americans would take kindly to US senators hiding out in Canada for weeks in order to avoid voting on a single bill of this nature.
  • rnch

    Posts: 11524

    Mar 07, 2011 1:23 AM GMT
    [quote][cite]southbeach1500 said...Since 99% of the people of Wisconsin (this is according to all the liberal polls that are cited here) disagree with Walker and side with the Democrats and the unions, they'll put Democrats back in power at the next election and reinstate these "God-given rights."

    [/quote]



    NINETY NINE (99) percent??


    please furnish this poll(s).
  • rnch

    Posts: 11524

    Mar 07, 2011 1:31 AM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    rnch said[quote][cite]southbeach1500 said...Since 99% of the people of Wisconsin (this is according to all the liberal polls that are cited here) disagree with Walker and side with the Democrats and the unions, they'll put Democrats back in power at the next election and reinstate these "God-given rights.".







    NINETY NINE (99) percent??


    please furnish this poll(s)




    Why do you always pop up with a response to something I write within minutes of me posting it?[/quote]



    never mind pulling the Republican technique of deflection and changing the subject.....where's the poll you quoted???
  • mke_bt

    Posts: 707

    Mar 07, 2011 1:51 AM GMT

    After a week long bus tour of the state sponsored by Americans for Prosperity (Koch Industries) to rally the pro-Walker troops they had their big rally today in Madison. Estimated attendance - 700 people.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Mar 07, 2011 1:56 AM GMT
    QUOTE AUTHOR GOES HEREnever mind pulling the Republican technique of deflection and changing the subject.....where's the poll you quoted???

    Why mount such a weak challenge to his point? He's just exaggerating to make a point.
    The interesting part of what he said is that their pay/benefits and collective bargaining are all legislated rights. They came into being when there were friendly lawmakers and now they are being threatened by unfriendly lawmakers. Certain polling suggests the tide is turning, so everything could just as quickly be restored after the next election. Everyone can either decide this is the roller coaster they want to ride or come up with a better way to fairly compensate public employees. Personally, I think it may be true the tide is turning against Walker, but I also think that the tax payers in all states will cast a suspicious eye towards state and local budgets for the foreseeable future.
  • rnch

    Posts: 11524

    Mar 07, 2011 2:17 AM GMT
    ONCE AGAIN, southbeach jane has been caught in a lie of his own making.

    where's the 99% poll, sb?????
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Mar 07, 2011 2:17 AM GMT
    Personally, I think it may be true the tide is turning against Walker, but I also think that the tax payers in all states will cast a suspicious eye towards state and local budgets for the foreseeable future.

    Yes I agree the tide is turning against Walker
    For obvious reasons
    But the thing is .... this isn't an isolated case
    If it were I'd agree with you
    Just boot him out
    This is a Nationwide trend of republican Governors
    making the false connection that they need to stop collective bargaining rights
    to help balance their budgets
    We see it in
    Wisconsin
    in Ohio
    and we've seen it luckily likely fail in Indiana
    all with republican governors and republican legislators

    People wanna balance budgets? Fine
    but don't try and blame the middle class for the FU's of the Financial sector
    and then in the same breath increase the tax breaks on the top wage earners
    WTF world did that come from?
  • musclmed

    Posts: 3274

    Mar 07, 2011 2:26 AM GMT
    TrentGrad said
    boydroid saidI think the Democrats should stop hiding out in Illinois and get back to representing their constituents. A democracy doesn't work when elected officials can't face their minority status. They need to suck it up and work towards winning the next election with better candidates and ideas.

    I think Walker should just try to balance the current budget and worry about how to handle future budgets when a less contentious atmosphere returns. That means coming to an agreement about the pay and benefit cuts and deferring the collective bargaining question for another time. In general, the public unions are on the defensive in many states as their pay and benefits face increasing scrutiny. I just have a feeling their political influence has already declined without removing collective bargaining privileges.



    The atmosphere was created by Scott Walker himself...the Unions ate............

    Of course when you completely emasculate a Union, and then require it to ask it's members if they wish to pay Union dues to something that lacks the power to negotiate for better wages, benefits and working conditions on their behalf, you are all but eliminating the Union by decree!







    So say no salary cuts or layoffs, everything the same except 2 concessions.

    1)Wisconsin becomes a right to work state....

    2)Wisconsin allows more vouchers for schools.?

    I think what is more at stake for the opponents is the mandatory union dues. Which on its face never made sense to me in.

    But collective bargaining and binding arbitration brought the citizens of Wisconsin bus drivers that made more money than the mayor of Madison. Why would you expect a different result the next time?

    Also prison guards who called in sick to there own shifts then got overtime for 40 hours weeks.

    If you leave in binding arbitration, essentially in a year or 2 years things can just be overridden.


  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Mar 07, 2011 2:32 AM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    rnch said[quote][cite]southbeach1500 said...Since 99% of the people of Wisconsin (this is according to all the liberal polls that are cited here) disagree with Walker and side with the Democrats and the unions, they'll put Democrats back in power at the next election and reinstate these "God-given rights.".







    NINETY NINE (99) percent??


    please furnish this poll(s)




    Why do you always pop up with a response to something I write within minutes of me posting it?[/quote]
    Because he's the THIRD poster to expose your posted lie.. why are you such a small man that can't own up to his actions?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Mar 07, 2011 2:34 AM GMT
    boydroid said Personally, I think it may be true the tide is turning against Walker, but I also think that the tax payers in all states will cast a suspicious eye towards state and local budgets for the foreseeable future.
    And there isnt anything wrong with the public being hyper aware of state and local budgets.. (and the tricks by politicians!)