Wisconsin GOP Senators Pass Anti-Union Bill Without Democrats Present

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    Mar 10, 2011 2:03 AM GMT
    "....The parliamentary maneuver, first reported by local press, allowed the anti-collective bargaining measure to pass with just Republican support. Under Wisconsin law a 3/5s quorum is needed for a statute that is fiscal in nature. No such quorum is needed for non-fiscal matters.

    It was also a 180-degree reversal by Walker and state Senate Republicans, who have insisted for the past three weeks that the collective bargaining provision was designed to help alleviate the state’s budget problems. State Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald (R) had previously said he would not attempt to pass any portions of the bill without Democrats present.

    Wisconsin Democrats decried the move as an unprecedented and blatant end-run, but it was clear that they were powerless to stop it. Indeed, it took the conference committee only a matter of minutes to pass the severed off measure by a four-to-two vote. Minutes later, the same bill passed through the entire Senate by an 18-1 margin, with Sen. Dale Schultz, a Republican moderate who had proposed a compromise measure, lodging the only no vote.

    Justin Sargent, a staffer to Senator Chris Larson (D-Wis.) called the maneuver completely unexpected. It showed, he added, that this “obviously wasn’t about any kind of financing, it was an attack on working families.” ...

    The new procedural maneuver requires that bill now be sent back to the State Assembly for consideration since that body has passed only the full (not the severed) budget bill. According to Mary Spicuzza of the Wall Street Journal the Assembly will reportedly take up the measure tomorrow. "

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/09/wisconsin-gop-plan-advance-anti-union_n_833796.html


    I wonder if this will make recalling the governor easier or harder?
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    Mar 10, 2011 2:19 AM GMT
    Easier.......

    And...will make Obama re-election even easier.

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    Mar 10, 2011 2:28 AM GMT
    The recall couldn't come soon enough.... icon_evil.gif
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    Mar 10, 2011 2:38 AM GMT
    southbeach1500 saidGood!

    The Democrat scum Senators who have been hiding in Illinois to sabotage the legislative process have only themselves to blame.

    Dick Morris on Fox News had suggested they do this a couple of weeks ago.
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    Mar 10, 2011 2:39 AM GMT
    OrangeRight12 saidThe recall couldn't come soon enough.... icon_evil.gif

    A couple of other RJ members, also from Madison, don't see it the way you do.
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    Mar 10, 2011 2:42 AM GMT
    socalfitness said
    OrangeRight12 saidThe recall couldn't come soon enough.... icon_evil.gif

    A couple of other RJ members, also from Madison, don't see it the way you do.


    I am fine with that... they are entitled to their own opinions.

    If there are more people agreeing with what the Republicans are doing, the recall would not happen or fail, and vice versa.
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    Mar 10, 2011 2:52 AM GMT
    socalfitness said
    southbeach1500 saidGood!

    The Democrat scum Senators who have been hiding in Illinois to sabotage the legislative process have only themselves to blame.

    Dick Morris on Fox News had suggested they do this a couple of weeks ago.



    Toe sucking prostitute buying Dick Morris?
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    Mar 10, 2011 3:29 AM GMT
    socalfitness said
    OrangeRight12 saidThe recall couldn't come soon enough.... icon_evil.gif

    A couple of other RJ members, also from Madison, don't see it the way you do.



    Who are they?
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    Mar 10, 2011 3:31 AM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    LeanathleticDC said
    socalfitness said
    southbeach1500 saidGood!

    The Democrat scum Senators who have been hiding in Illinois to sabotage the legislative process have only themselves to blame.

    Dick Morris on Fox News had suggested they do this a couple of weeks ago.



    Toe sucking prostitute buying Dick Morris?


    Why must 90%+ of what you post be crass, crude and argumentative?

    I mean really, what have you contributed to the discussion of this topic by posting that?


    Well, Dick Morris is hack who made his career stabbing the Clintons in the back repeatedly. He is also known for frequenting prostitutes and having a foot fetish. And he has been wrong about everything he has ever said.
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    Mar 10, 2011 4:04 AM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    LeanathleticDC said
    socalfitness said
    southbeach1500 saidGood!

    The Democrat scum Senators who have been hiding in Illinois to sabotage the legislative process have only themselves to blame.

    Dick Morris on Fox News had suggested they do this a couple of weeks ago.



    Toe sucking prostitute buying Dick Morris?


    Why must 90%+ of what you post be crass, crude and argumentative?

    I mean really, what have you contributed to the discussion of this topic by posting that?

    SB - don't mind him, he's harmless. I think the conservatives like him because he bumps their threads up, adding nothing in the process.
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Mar 10, 2011 12:32 PM GMT
    Psst ..........




    They didn't DO IT weeks ago ..........................


    Because it's ILLEGAL

    and the reason they did it was because this had nothing to do with the budget?
    Their words not mine
  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Mar 10, 2011 1:17 PM GMT
    GQjock saidPsst ..........




    They didn't DO IT weeks ago ..........................


    Because it's ILLEGAL

    and the reason they did it was because this had nothing to do with the budget?
    Their words not mine


    I'm not going to say what I think of the action.... I think events today
    will reflect... and I hope recall efforts are "remarkably" successful.
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    Mar 10, 2011 1:27 PM GMT
    HndsmKansan saidI'm not going to say what I think of the action.... I think events today
    will reflect... and I hope recall efforts are "remarkably" successful.

    Don't forget, there are also efforts to recall the Democrats who went AWOL. There are many who believe the polls in Wisconsin have been impacted by the heavy barrage of out-of-state financed union ads. Will be interesting to see what the results are when those ads have run their course. What I think will have even more impact are the revelations that Obama's team from Chicago has been directly involved in the recall activity. I think this will lead to a major backlash that will both help the Republicans in Wisconsin and hurt Obama and the Democrats nationwide. This is just one of many references on the point:

    http://www.atr.org/team-obama-directly-working-recall-wisconsin-a5919#
    Good excerpt from the link:
    The President's message to the American people is simple: I don't care about balancing the federal budget. I don't care what the voters had to say in November. I will spend money to depose of elected officials I don't like. Because Big Labor told me to.
    The comments to this are also a good read.

    I think this will be viewed as the Obama team having shot itself in the foot. Maybe even the head. icon_biggrin.gif
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    Mar 10, 2011 1:37 PM GMT
    socalfitness said
    HndsmKansan saidI'm not going to say what I think of the action.... I think events today
    will reflect... and I hope recall efforts are "remarkably" successful.

    Don't forget, there are also efforts to recall the Democrats who went AWOL. There are many who believe the polls in Wisconsin have been impacted by the heavy barrage of out-of-state financed union ads. Will be interesting to see what the results are when those ads have run their course. What I think will have even more impact are the revelations that Obama's team from Chicago has been directly involved in the recall activity. I think this will lead to a major backlash that will both help the Republicans in Wisconsin and hurt Obama and the Democrats nationwide. This is just one of many references on the point:

    http://www.atr.org/team-obama-directly-working-recall-wisconsin-a5919#

    I think this will be viewed as the Obama team having shot itself in the foot. Maybe even the head. icon_biggrin.gif


    I disagree. I think the WI is at heart a blue state and though it elected these "nutty ideologues" in November, the backlash against them has been swift and firm. Now that the union stripping measure seems likely to become law, at least until the courts take it up, the Left has found a true organizing principle.

    As to the "Obama team's" involvement, all we have to go on is the word of a political opponent who has already shown that he's willing to break the laws of his state to score a victory. Hardly a credible source.
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    Mar 10, 2011 2:37 PM GMT
    Christian73 said
    socalfitness said
    HndsmKansan saidI'm not going to say what I think of the action.... I think events today
    will reflect... and I hope recall efforts are "remarkably" successful.

    Don't forget, there are also efforts to recall the Democrats who went AWOL. There are many who believe the polls in Wisconsin have been impacted by the heavy barrage of out-of-state financed union ads. Will be interesting to see what the results are when those ads have run their course. What I think will have even more impact are the revelations that Obama's team from Chicago has been directly involved in the recall activity. I think this will lead to a major backlash that will both help the Republicans in Wisconsin and hurt Obama and the Democrats nationwide. This is just one of many references on the point:

    http://www.atr.org/team-obama-directly-working-recall-wisconsin-a5919#

    I think this will be viewed as the Obama team having shot itself in the foot. Maybe even the head. icon_biggrin.gif


    I disagree. I think the WI is at heart a blue state and though it elected these "nutty ideologues" in November, the backlash against them has been swift and firm. Now that the union stripping measure seems likely to become law, at least until the courts take it up, the Left has found a true organizing principle.

    As to the "Obama team's" involvement, all we have to go on is the word of a political opponent who has already shown that he's willing to break the laws of his state to score a victory. Hardly a credible source.

    Can't a Democratic legislature just repeal this law?
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    Mar 10, 2011 2:42 PM GMT
    Caslon17000 said
    Christian73 said
    socalfitness said
    HndsmKansan saidI'm not going to say what I think of the action.... I think events today
    will reflect... and I hope recall efforts are "remarkably" successful.

    Don't forget, there are also efforts to recall the Democrats who went AWOL. There are many who believe the polls in Wisconsin have been impacted by the heavy barrage of out-of-state financed union ads. Will be interesting to see what the results are when those ads have run their course. What I think will have even more impact are the revelations that Obama's team from Chicago has been directly involved in the recall activity. I think this will lead to a major backlash that will both help the Republicans in Wisconsin and hurt Obama and the Democrats nationwide. This is just one of many references on the point:

    http://www.atr.org/team-obama-directly-working-recall-wisconsin-a5919#

    I think this will be viewed as the Obama team having shot itself in the foot. Maybe even the head. icon_biggrin.gif


    I disagree. I think the WI is at heart a blue state and though it elected these "nutty ideologues" in November, the backlash against them has been swift and firm. Now that the union stripping measure seems likely to become law, at least until the courts take it up, the Left has found a true organizing principle.

    As to the "Obama team's" involvement, all we have to go on is the word of a political opponent who has already shown that he's willing to break the laws of his state to score a victory. Hardly a credible source.

    Can't a Democratic legislature just repeal this law?


    Of course...
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    Mar 10, 2011 2:44 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    GQjock saidPsst ..........




    They didn't DO IT weeks ago ..........................


    Because it's ILLEGAL


    ..... in your universe.

    In this universe, it is legal.

    The Republican Senators gave the Democrats weeks to show up for work so that their vote could be recorded on the bill. The Democrats instead had a weeks long tantrum.

    So the Republican Senators came up with a new, non-spending bill and voted on it.




    What they did is certainly of questionable legality. Minimally, it seems to violate a state law mandating openness in legislation.

    Beyond that, the entire Republican argument for ending collective bargaining was its budgetary implications and the Senate cannot pass laws with budget implications without a quorum.
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    Mar 10, 2011 2:50 PM GMT
    The blatant lying and deception in WI is not going un-noticed by the public..

    The defecation is about to hit the oscillation.
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    Mar 10, 2011 2:59 PM GMT
    TropicalMark saidThe blatant lying and deception in WI is not going un-noticed by the public..

    The defecation is about to hit the oscillation.



    The blatant lack of empathy of the Republican Party has been shown.


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    Mar 10, 2011 3:01 PM GMT
    Curious that it's OK for the Right to use massive out-of-state resources to defeat gay civil rights in California, Maine, and elsewhere, much of it potentially illegal religious contributions, but the Right complains when national unions legally defend their own traditional interests in Wisconsin.

    A bit of hypocrisy, perhaps? If not downright dishonest & criminal, in violation of multiple US & State election laws and tax codes for non-profit and religious organizations. Whereas the US Supreme Court recently ruled it's legal for unions to make such donations. Well, maybe the public will forget that part, if the Right keeps pretending it's wrong, but says it's OK for church groups from out-of-state to campaign in elections against gays.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19119

    Mar 10, 2011 3:12 PM GMT
    Hmmmm....so the Democrats went AWOL for 2 weeks, and NOW they are complaining because they weren't there to vote and the the vote didn't go the way they wanted? SHOCKER! icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Mar 10, 2011 3:20 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ saidHmmmm....so the Democrats went AWOL for 2 weeks, and NOW they are complaining because they weren't there to vote and the the vote didn't go the way they wanted? SHOCKER! icon_rolleyes.gif

    icon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gif
  • musclmed

    Posts: 3274

    Mar 10, 2011 3:27 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ saidHmmmm....so the Democrats went AWOL for 2 weeks, and NOW they are complaining because they weren't there to vote and the the vote didn't go the way they wanted? SHOCKER! icon_rolleyes.gif



    Yes, so if we think staying outside the state to obstruct the Senate is a legitimate parliamentary tactic , Why are we not to suggest separating the part of the bill that can go through without the minority quorum equally legitimate?

    Within the US house often parts of bills that go to conference come back with mysterious Harry Reid or Pelosi( in the past) insertions that never were voted on, and the house voted on them. Budgets or taxation initiated in the Senate ( unconstitutional) and votes held open and closed unusually, all occur. ( not a peep from democrats)

    One official stated ( prosecuting the senators (R) that voted in this so called ( illegal vote). If the law is struck down, it would be. But its sort of odd the assertion that this is a criminal act, different or worse than deliberately obstructing the Senate by staying out of state.



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    Mar 10, 2011 3:28 PM GMT
    Back in 1933, Union busting was a top priority for a newly-elected leader. In Germany. Step one in the final stages of a fascist takeover is to establish absolute authority by removing any middle class organizational capacity.

    Why do Republicans hate middle class working people who want a decent living?


    Oh...monopoly-man.gif


  • Menergy_1

    Posts: 737

    Mar 10, 2011 3:33 PM GMT
    It seems from reports and coverage on TV that there's a small issue of hypocrisy here from the Republican WI politicos: all along the collective bargaining issue was defined as "budgetary" or "fiscally related" , exclusion of which would hinder the budget-cutting attempts-- and now, in order to proceed with the nuclear option, they redefined the redacted bill leaving only the collective bargaining item in and call it Non- Fiscal so they can pass it without a quorum?

    There's a Monty Python line hiding in here somewhere....



    If I'm missing something, please provide factual and linked rebuttal.