"In dramatic revolt, Miami-Dade voters fire Mayor Carlos Alvarez over pay hikes, tax increase"

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    Mar 16, 2011 3:22 PM GMT
    Note that this was a Republican Mayor who was elected comfortably in the last election AND heavily supported by union members. This runs counter to the narrative being pushed by some on Wisconsin. Spending, running out of money is not a partisan issue. Republicans have very much been a party to the massive spending increases.

    http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/03/15/2117129/9-of-10-say-yes-to-ousting-alvarez.html

    Voters swept Miami-Dade Mayor Carlos Alvarez out of office by a stunning margin Tuesday, [88%] voted to remove Alvarez from office. [...] More than 200,000 people cast votes in the election.

    In March 2009 Alvarez successfully pushed through a controversial deal to use hundreds of millions of dollars in public money to build a new ballpark for the Florida Marlins. Then in August 2009 The Miami Herald disclosed that as Alvarez was calling for shared sacrifice amid the searing economic downturn he handed large raises to close aides, including Chief of Staff Dennis Morales, whose 11 percent pay hike put his yearly salary at $206,783.

    In December the newspaper reported that Morales was working in Panama as a private consultant on taxpayer time. Alvarez, demoted his longtime confidant but troubles continued. By spring 2010 Alvarez was tagged in a controversy involving longtime ally Frank Vecin, a county police division chief who used a $5 million fund meant to crack down on polluters to buy flat-screen TVs, SUVs and assault rifles. Vecin stepped down last year amid allegations of mixing private consulting with his government work.

    In May, Alvarez came under fire for shopping for a new BMW 550i Grand Turismo sedan subsidized by an $800-a-month car allowance. He got the new car even as he already had two Chevy Suburbans to ferry him around on official business. Alvarez — earning a $233,123 salary and $92,187 in benefits — refused to get rid of the car allowance, saying he wasn't "going to do something that is symbolic." [...]

    Meanwhile, as election day approached, Alvarez's troubles deepened when it was discovered he had granted paid leave to 12 transit workers — whose union wrote a $25,000 check backing Alvarez's recall defense — and one of the workers was found campaigning on his behalf.
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    Mar 16, 2011 3:29 PM GMT
    Those that play this game will get nailed regardless of party.. I do find it ironic however that this "republican" was awash in his backroom deals all the while talking the good republican talk of cutting flippant spending!
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    Mar 16, 2011 3:33 PM GMT
    Well Riddler, I commend you for "fair and balanced" coverage here in pointing this out. Now I hope too, that you can see that repubs in the last ten years expecially, are to a great degree responsible for our current Federal financial Budget mess here in the US. Two God damn worthless and very expensive wars for starters. (going after Bin Laden and his supporters should have been the goal and the extent of the war) Can I hear an "AMEN" from your corner ??
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    Mar 16, 2011 3:37 PM GMT
    TropicalMark saidThose that play this game will get nailed regardless of party.. I do find it ironic however that this "republican" was awash in his backroom deals all the while talking the good republican talk of cutting flippant spending!


    I think that's why some of us are so interested in the tea party movement. While there are obviously some fringe elements, those who participate tend to more educated and wealthier than the general population but most importantly are interested in cutting the role and scope of government - irrespective of party and ousting hand picked candidates chosen by the party leadership. It's getting results.
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    Mar 16, 2011 3:40 PM GMT
    riddler78 said
    TropicalMark saidThose that play this game will get nailed regardless of party.. I do find it ironic however that this "republican" was awash in his backroom deals all the while talking the good republican talk of cutting flippant spending!


    I think that's why some of us are so interested in the tea party movement. While there are obviously some fringe elements, those who participate tend to more educated and wealthier than the general population but most importantly are interested in cutting the role and scope of government - irrespective of party and ousting hand picked candidates chosen by the party leadership. It's getting results.
    I agree to SOME extent.. however from what I have seen of the 'tea party movement' I am not impressed... knee jerk reactions and actions are dangerous and the mouthpieces for this movement are plainly NOT 'educated'. Ask Bachmann......or Palin!

    Oh and to add.. The tea party darling rick scott uses the movement rhetoric about cutting the size and scope of government all the while massively expanding his own office budget and workforce? Can you not see what I see?
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    Mar 16, 2011 3:41 PM GMT
    realifedad said Well Riddler, I commend you for "fair and balanced" coverage here in pointing this out. Now I hope too, that you can see that repubs in the last ten years expecially, are to a great degree responsible for our current Federal financial Budget mess here in the US. Two God damn worthless and very expensive wars for starters. (going after Bin Laden and his supporters should have been the goal and the extent of the war) Can I hear an "AMEN" from your corner ??


    I was never a fan of Bush's domestic policies or results. He traded favors and played realpolitik with taxpayer funds resulting in a massive increase in discretionary spending. I also agree that Iraq and Afghanistan were handled poorly but I also suspect (given Al Gore's rhetoric in the first election of Bush) that the US would have likely gone to war anyway with Iraq given the fears of WMDs - and I still think they're fairly legitimate ones.

    I'm sure you've been paying attention to what's been happening in Japan - people are so irrational - or maybe that's just the journalists when it comes to anything to do with radiation. I suspect that within my lifetime we will see at least one dirty bomb in a major city. While I think it's almost inevitable given the falling costs and proliferation of technology, it's also something very much worth trying to prevent for as long as possible.
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    Mar 16, 2011 3:45 PM GMT
    TropicalMark saidAsk Bachmann......or Palin!


    OK I'll agree with you on Palin - though I think a lot of coverage on her has been unfair to the point of ridiculous. I mean I'm sure you'll agree that Obama has said some stupid things when he speaks off the cuff. The thing is that Obama doesn't do so often and even I'm sure the most partisan is willing to laugh at the jokes about his teleprompter and his (over?)reliance on prepared remarks.

    Of course, Palin suffers from no such, we'll call it shyness in speaking off the cuff and it gets her into trouble. She just wasn't ready for prime time and with overexposure she is I think tainted for the forseeable newscycle.

    On Bachmann, I do wonder though... isn't she like a longstanding tax attorney and also highly educated? I don't know enough about her. But that's the thing about the tea party too - there is no real organization so people just seem to gravitate to the voices that speak loudest on the primary issues... from what I've seen, the polling even within the tea party movement doesn't believe or have trust in Palin and does not want her to be President.
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    Mar 16, 2011 3:46 PM GMT
    riddler78 said
    TropicalMark saidThose that play this game will get nailed regardless of party.. I do find it ironic however that this "republican" was awash in his backroom deals all the while talking the good republican talk of cutting flippant spending!


    I think that's why some of us are so interested in the tea party movement. While there are obviously some fringe elements, those who participate tend to more educated and wealthier than the general population but most importantly are interested in cutting the role and scope of government - irrespective of party and ousting hand picked candidates chosen by the party leadership. It's getting results.

    The Teabaggers are mostly the older "get off my lawn!" crowd of angry white males. Actually not very smart at all, just rooted in their bigotries and enjoying their retirement nesteggs, willing to let everyone else go to Hell.

    As for Alvarez, his defeat was largely due to billionaire Norman Braman, who engineered and bankrolled this recall effort. Braman was opposed to a new sports stadium that Alvarez pushed. This was his revenge.

    Alvarez made some poor decisions (remember I live down here) and had his faults. But I'm also uncomfortable when a single individual, like Braman, can use his wealth to seize the electoral process. It's like a south Florida version of the Koch Brothers in Wisconsin.
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    Mar 16, 2011 4:02 PM GMT
    Art_Deco saidThe Teabaggers are mostly the older "get off my lawn!" crowd of angry white males. Actually not very smart at all, just rooted in their bigotries and enjoying their retirement nesteggs, willing to let everyone else go to Hell.

    As for Alvarez, his defeat was largely due to billionaire Norman Braman, who engineered and bankrolled this recall effort. Braman was opposed to a new sports stadium that Alvarez pushed. This was his revenge.

    Alvarez made some poor decisions (remember I live down here) and had his faults. But I'm also uncomfortable when a single individual, like Braman, can use his wealth to seize the electoral process. It's like a south Florida version of the Koch Brothers in Wisconsin.


    While I think that's a useful narrative for some, here's a poll published by the NYT:
    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/15/us/politics/15poll.html - "Tea Party supporters are wealthier and more well-educated than the general public, and are no more or less afraid of falling into a lower socioeconomic class, according to the latest New York Times/CBS News poll." (April 2010).

    There's also been some research to support the idea that those who are for less government are also less racist than those who are for larger government: http://dailycaller.com/2011/03/15/ron-schiller-is-wrong-people-who-want-small-government-are-not-racist/ - though I'd be interested in seeing that fleshed out.

    As for Alvarez, it's a weird alliance between a Republican and the local unions. I don't understand the animosity towards the Koch brothers either. I get the fact that some of their lobbying dollars are self serving - (which is the case for ALL lobbying dollars) but they also support drug legalization, gay marriage, and AGAINST the Patriot Act.

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    Mar 16, 2011 5:44 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 saidWhile I am glad he and the commissioner are gone, I did not vote in the recall election yesterday, as I think that this is a slippery slope to go down.

    Anytime enough of the population don't like what an elected official is doing... have a recall vote. This line of action - while well intentioned - is probably more damaging to the governmental process than the ills it is designed to correct.

    We have elections every few years and that's when we should cast our votes.
    Then talk to your cohorts in Calif..they started this 7 yrs ago.
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    Mar 16, 2011 6:05 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    TropicalMark said
    southbeach1500 saidWhile I am glad he and the commissioner are gone, I did not vote in the recall election yesterday, as I think that this is a slippery slope to go down.

    Anytime enough of the population don't like what an elected official is doing... have a recall vote. This line of action - while well intentioned - is probably more damaging to the governmental process than the ills it is designed to correct.

    We have elections every few years and that's when we should cast our votes.
    Then talk to your cohorts in Calif..they started this 7 yrs ago.


    California has nothing to do with this.

    Why must you always be trying to pick a fight with me?



    California has nothing to do with this.
    Oh yes it does... according to your own words..."Anytime enough of the population don't like what an elected official is doing... have a recall vote. This line of action - while well intentioned - is probably more damaging to the governmental process than the ills it is designed to correct."
    On February 5, 2003, anti-tax activist Ted Costa announced a plan to start a petition drive to recall Davis. Several committees were formed to collect signatures, but Costa's Davis Recall Committee was the only one authorized by the state to submit signatures. One committee "Recall Gray Davis Committee," organized by Republican political consultant Sal Russo and former Republican assemblyman Howard Kaloogian played a supporting role in drumming up support. Kaloogian served as chairman, Russo as chief strategist of the committee. After the recall both Kaloogian and Russo went on to found 'Move America Forward'.

    Why must you always be trying to pick a fight with me?

    Cant handle a pushback?
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    Mar 16, 2011 6:09 PM GMT
    riddler78 saidWhile I think that's a useful narrative for some, here's a poll published by the NYT:
    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/15/us/politics/15poll.html - "Tea Party supporters are wealthier and more well-educated than the general public, and are no more or less afraid of falling into a lower socioeconomic class, according to the latest New York Times/CBS News poll." (April 2010).

    There's also been some research to support the idea that those who are for less government are also less racist than those who are for larger government: http://dailycaller.com/2011/03/15/ron-schiller-is-wrong-people-who-want-small-government-are-not-racist/ - though I'd be interested in seeing that fleshed out.

    As for Alvarez, it's a weird alliance between a Republican and the local unions. I don't understand the animosity towards the Koch brothers either. I get the fact that some of their lobbying dollars are self serving - (which is the case for ALL lobbying dollars) but they also support drug legalization, gay marriage, and AGAINST the Patriot Act.

    I see the Teabaggers down here. They may be marginally above the average income, because they have nesteggs, as I stated above. Yet they remain angry old White men, who hate minorities.

    And they didn't oppose larger government, when it was to wage the Bush Wars. They are very selective when they oppose " big government." God help any government that tries to reduce their Social Security, their Medicare, or their other senior-citizen write-offs. Totally selfish, they want everyone else to support them.

    So I understand their motivations. And I've seen other surveys that show how racist the Teabaggers are.

    As for the Koch brothers, please show me what positive good they have done for the gay community. I mean, actual accomplishments. I apparently missed that, but I'm willing to learn.
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    Mar 16, 2011 6:15 PM GMT
    realifedad said Well Riddler, I commend you for "fair and balanced" coverage here in pointing this out. Now I hope too, that you can see that repubs in the last ten years expecially, are to a great degree responsible for our current Federal financial Budget mess here in the US. Two God damn worthless and very expensive wars for starters. (going after Bin Laden and his supporters should have been the goal and the extent of the war) Can I hear an "AMEN" from your corner ??



    Let's not forget the trillions of dollars wasted on the Bush tax cuts to the rich that did nothing to prevent the 2007-2009 Bush recession, and the Bush prescription drug bill that the Repubs rammed through and that's 100% UNPAID FOR as every penny of the cost of it gets larded onto the National Debt.
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    Mar 16, 2011 6:17 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    TropicalMark saidWhy must you always be trying to pick a fight with me?

    Cant handle a pushback?


    Of course I can, but you and a few others seem to be here for the sole reason of attacking a few RJ members.

    And that's pretty sick.



    LOL!
    We're here largely to rebut the BOGUS right-wing BS that you and a few other pro-Repub propagandizers post on the threads here day in and day out.
    The TRUTH must be defended.
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    Mar 16, 2011 6:20 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    TropicalMark saidWhy must you always be trying to pick a fight with me?

    Cant handle a pushback?


    Of course I can, but you and a few others seem to be here for the sole reason of attacking a few RJ members.

    And that's pretty sick.
    Projecting your intentions on others here? Are you a clairvoyant?
  • rnch

    Posts: 11524

    Mar 16, 2011 6:26 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    TropicalMark saidWhy must you always be trying to pick a fight with me?

    Cant handle a pushback?


    Of course I can, but you and a few others seem to be here for the sole reason of attacking a few RJ members.

    And that's pretty sick.



    LMAO @ southbeach jane "playing the victim"




    icon_lol.gif








    (yet AGAIN)



    icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Mar 16, 2011 6:29 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    TropicalMark saidWhy must you always be trying to pick a fight with me?

    Cant handle a pushback?

    Of course I can, but you and a few others seem to be here for the sole reason of attacking a few RJ members.

    And that's pretty sick.

    I love this! Turning logic and facts on their head, claiming to be the victim, rather than the perpetrator!

    The guy who attacks everybody here personally, who calls us "Liberal hens" and every other kind of slander.

    I hope you know your supporters are shrinking, down to less than a half-dozen at last count.

    A guy who, on an international gay health & fitness site, contributes virtually nothing but right-wing US political diatribes. You do realize there are lots of guys from non-US countries who don't want to see your crap? And that it harms this site?

    Have you ever considered making some contributions to gay health & fitness, which I & others here do? Or some general gay sexual topics? What is your motivation & agenda here? It's clearly not pro-gay. So do please explain yourself.
  • mke_bt

    Posts: 707

    Mar 17, 2011 1:03 AM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    Art_Deco said
    southbeach1500 said
    TropicalMark saidWhy must you always be trying to pick a fight with me?

    Cant handle a pushback?

    Of course I can, but you and a few others seem to be here for the sole reason of attacking a few RJ members.

    And that's pretty sick.

    I love this! Turning logic and facts on their head, claiming to be the victim, rather than the perpetrator!

    The guy who attacks everybody here personally, who calls us "Liberal hens" and every other kind of slander.

    I hope you know your supporters are shrinking, down to less than a half-dozen at last count.

    A guy who, on an international gay health & fitness site, contributes virtually nothing but right-wing US political diatribes. You do realize there are lots of guys from non-US countries who don't want to see your crap? And that it harms this site?

    Have you ever considered making some contributions to gay health & fitness, which I & others here do? Or some general gay sexual topics? What is your motivation & agenda here? It's clearly not pro-gay. So do please explain yourself.



    Uh huh... nevermind that most of my threads get hundreds and thousands of views..... yep, nobody's interested at all....


    Much like a train wreck getting hundreds and thousands of views.
  • Webster666

    Posts: 9217

    Mar 17, 2011 1:24 AM GMT
    TropicalMark saidThose that play this game will get nailed regardless of party.. I do find it ironic however that this "republican" was awash in his backroom deals all the while talking the good republican talk of cutting flippant spending!




    Typical hypocritical Republican: Do as I say, not as I do.
    This goon is the first of a long line of Republican liars who will be swept out of office like the dirt bags that they are.

    By the end of next year, the Democrats will be back in control of BOTH houses of Congress, as well as retaining the White House. You can quote me on that.
  • Webster666

    Posts: 9217

    Mar 17, 2011 1:26 AM GMT
    realifedad said Well Riddler, I commend you for "fair and balanced" coverage here in pointing this out. Now I hope too, that you can see that repubs in the last ten years expecially, are to a great degree responsible for our current Federal financial Budget mess here in the US. Two God damn worthless and very expensive wars for starters. (going after Bin Laden and his supporters should have been the goal and the extent of the war) Can I hear an "AMEN" from your corner ??



    I agree with every word that you wrote.
  • mke_bt

    Posts: 707

    Mar 17, 2011 2:22 AM GMT

    Uh huh... nevermind that most of my threads get hundreds and thousands of views..... yep, nobody's interested at all....


    Much like a train wreck getting hundreds and thousands of views.


    I'm interesting - much more than you and the stats reflect that. icon_wink.gif[/quote]

    As I've never started a thread (that I can recall), I'm curious where you get your "stats". If you're referring to responses to what I post on threads started by other people, well that's just pathetic. Looks like you're the only one participating in this pissing match. I like that imagery, a pissing match of one while squatting.
  • mke_bt

    Posts: 707

    Mar 17, 2011 2:44 AM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    mke_bt said
    southbeach1500 said
    mke_bt said
    southbeach1500 said

    Uh huh... nevermind that most of my threads get hundreds and thousands of views..... yep, nobody's interested at all....



    Much like a train wreck getting hundreds and thousands of views.


    I'm interesting - much more than you and the stats reflect that. icon_wink.gif


    As I've never started a thread (that I can recall), I'm curious where you get your "stats". If you're referring to responses to what I post on threads started by other people well, that's just pathetic. Looks like you're the only one participating in this pissing match. I like that imagery, a pissing match of one while squatting.


    What's your point?

    You insulted me (your choice, I hadn't even addressed you in this topic) and I replied that people read what I write much more than they read what you write because they are interested in what I have to say. I fill the void in their otherwise empty lives.

    Now go ahead and take another shot at me. icon_rolleyes.gif


    OK, I will. It must make you feel so important when people with otherwise empty lives take an interest in what you have to say.
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    Mar 17, 2011 3:34 AM GMT
    mke_bt said
    southbeach1500 said
    mke_bt said
    southbeach1500 said
    mke_bt said
    southbeach1500 said

    Uh huh... nevermind that most of my threads get hundreds and thousands of views..... yep, nobody's interested at all....



    Much like a train wreck getting hundreds and thousands of views.


    I'm interesting - much more than you and the stats reflect that. icon_wink.gif


    As I've never started a thread (that I can recall), I'm curious where you get your "stats". If you're referring to responses to what I post on threads started by other people well, that's just pathetic. Looks like you're the only one participating in this pissing match. I like that imagery, a pissing match of one while squatting.


    What's your point?

    You insulted me (your choice, I hadn't even addressed you in this topic) and I replied that people read what I write much more than they read what you write because they are interested in what I have to say. I fill the void in their otherwise empty lives.

    Now go ahead and take another shot at me. icon_rolleyes.gif


    OK, I will. It must make you feel so important when people with otherwise empty lives take an interest in what you have to say.
    No one has any interest in what SB jane has to say.. trust me. Not even his fellow conservatives defend him or his antics.
  • Webster666

    Posts: 9217

    Mar 17, 2011 5:20 AM GMT
    southbeach1500 saidWhile I am glad he and the commissioner are gone, I did not vote in the recall election yesterday, as I think that this is a slippery slope to go down.

    Anytime enough of the population don't like what an elected official is doing... have a recall vote. This line of action - while well intentioned - is probably more damaging to the governmental process than the ills it is designed to correct.

    We have elections every few years and that's when we should cast our votes.




    Once again, you're showing how extremely stupid you are.

    It is VERY difficult to get enough voter signatures on petitions in order to force a recall election. They almost NEVER happen.
  • Webster666

    Posts: 9217

    Mar 17, 2011 5:24 AM GMT
    rickrick91 said
    southbeach1500 said
    TropicalMark saidWhy must you always be trying to pick a fight with me?

    Cant handle a pushback?


    Of course I can, but you and a few others seem to be here for the sole reason of attacking a few RJ members.

    And that's pretty sick.



    LOL!
    We're here largely to rebut the BOGUS right-wing BS that you and a few other pro-Repub propagandizers post on the threads here day in and day out.
    The TRUTH must be defended.




    Yeh, what he said.